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[Papercuts]

At least in this game, when you visit a town, it fits in with the story naturally rather than a predictable & systematic way.

It usually fits the story naturally in most RPGs. The biggest difference is in XIII it's still constricting you to linear paths, and on all but one occasion it's no different from normal gameplay and is a one-way-only path with enemies to fight.

 

[Firestorm]

I don't see whats so wrong with the pacing other then chapter 10 goes on way to long and that its all just battle and battle.

There's never any playable section where the tension is lower then the level of a dungeon. It's acceptable in an eight hour shooter, but not a 40 hour RPG. They tried to follow Call of Duty so much that they forgot that it doesn't work in their genre or arbitrary time length required as a bullet point.

Much of the reason I enjoy jRPGs is because of those lower tempo moments where I emerge from a dungeon back into the greenery of the overworld - either towards a new town or back to familiar ground. I love that moment where you enter the town, you see the cutscene or whatnot where the party regroups and figures out what to do next. The only area I've seen anything similar in Final Fantasy XIII is Pallumpollum so it's no surprise to me that it has been my favourite level so far.

I think that shoehorning what makes shooters fun onto a jRPG was a mistake. My favourite RPG this gen is still Tales of Vesperia by far.

 

[Replicant]

I rather play FFXIII for the rest of my life then more Tri Ace crap.

And I'm sure if RoF was actually a big deal it would get a level of hate.

Dude, WTF? You haven't even played it. I like FFXIII but Resonance of Fate is fun in its own category. You probably had a bad experience from Star Ocean 4 (and so did I) but that one game does not make all of Tri Ace's efforts. But oh well, your loss if that's your attitude.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Well I guess different strokes then. For me the worst parts of Vesperia were being in a town and not advancing through a dungeon.

I dont think the shooter pacing should be in a RPG ,but I liked it in XIII.

I've played RoF.

And I'm not basing Tri Ace's quailty just on 4 but also on SO 1,2, and 3. Also Radiata Stories, Ininfinite Crapeness, and the first VP. I keep trying their RPGS because they also seem to put actual effort in their presentation ,but they always are not my cup of tea.

Edit-Don't whats so wrong with the mom's are tough line. Yeah its corny but not as corny as any of the romantic parts in Mass Effect 1 or 2. Those made me cringe much more then any anime or jrpg.

 

[Cep]

I disagree. I see a lot of JRPG fans defending the game in here (including me). Posters that have probably played games very few people have even heard of. It's a polarizing game for both fans and haters of the genre/series.

Honestly though, the haters in this thread are a lot more vocal than the lovers. Come in at any time and you'd think gaf absolutely hates the game when in reality it's more of an even split.

Err, on gaf, the haters almost certainly outnumber the lovers.

I mean it is no where close to the universal hate SO4 has, but let us not pretend that this is even.

The last one that was even was x.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Dude, WTF? You haven't even played it. I like FFXIII but Resonance of Fate is fun in its own category. You probably had a bad experience from Star Ocean 4 (and so did I) but that one game does not make all of Tri Ace's efforts. But oh well, your loss if that's your attitude.

I can say that Resonance of Fate (I'm on chapter 4) is equally as crappy a game as FFXIII, the key difference being that instead of tapping A to win you draw out pretty triangles. Also it features less narrative content which is probably a plus

 

[Firestorm]

About this. It has not changed for 30 years ever since Dragon Quest 1.
It's so ancient & outdated & nothing has been added & changed to that formula in 99% of jRPGS.

Town (talk to one person to advance the to the next location) > World map > Dungeon > World map > Town > World map > Dungeon repeat x10 until you finish the game.

At least in this game, when you visit a town, it fits in with the story naturally rather than a predictable & systematic way.

You can change that formula while keeping the same narrative structure. It has been 30 years since Dragon Quest invented the "Town -> Dungeon -> World Map -> Town -> etc" formula. It has been thousands of years since the narrative structure of "beginning, rising action, climax, falling action, denouement" was invented. It is still used in every movie, novel, etc for a reason. It works.

Now, as for this game, when you visit a town, you're not really visiting the town. I liked how Pollumpollum was set up but part of it is because it split you between two parties with a decent amount of variety in the backgrounds. At the end, there was a pretty obvious release of tension at reaching

Spoiler

Hope's house

. You resolved some issues, made your plans, hell you could even interact with some objects, and then you made your next move and started the next "mini-arc". I'd have preferred if it lasted a little longer, but I liked it overall.

Nautilus was aggravating as I didn't feel the pacing had changed much at all and there was little payoff. It was a destination as explained throughout the previous chapter with Sazh and Vanille, but once you get there you never really get a chance to relax or look around. It's straight ahead to the next plot point (and a terrible Chocobo minigame).

 

[Crash Station]

Err, on gaf, the haters almost certainly outnumber the lovers.

I mean it is no where close to the universal hate SO4 has, but let us not pretend that this is even.

The last one that was even was x.

Remember, at the beginning of this thread there were A LOT of lovers. A lot of them went silent after that and all the hate was coming from the same people. If we're talking purely thread activity, the haters outnumber the lovers but add everything up and I'd bet the split would be around 60:40 on either side.

 

[d0c_zaius]

Not meaning to troll, but I have to vent.

This game is one of the most frustrating games I've played in a long time.

Im at Chp. 11, and Im playing it to completion as I dont want to waste the 30+ hours I've already spent to get to this point. But Ive never played a game I've hated so much story/gameplay/character-wise.

I'm sure some people like it, but I'm severely disappointed.

The "Moms are tough" line made me cringe.

So stop.

If you feel trolled then its your problem. My disclaimer was to prevent the overly sensitive from reacting., which in this case means you FF13defenseforceguy.

 

[Cep]

Remember, at the beginning of this thread there were A LOT of lovers. A lot of them went silent after that and all the hate was coming from the same people. If we're talking purely thread activity, the haters outnumber the lovers but add everything up and I'd bet the split would be around 60:40 on either side.

You have failed to consider the more likely possibility: That they are no longer 'lovers.'

The way this thread has trended mirrors the Japanese thread so thoroughly that it is uncanny.

I really suggest that you look over that thread. Also suggest that you check how the JPN sale price of the game trended.

While you are at it, do the same for the Strange Journey thread as well. The criticisms of that game are generally mild (since it is not really that bad) but it stands in stark contrast to the crazy love it received in the beginning as well.

 

[Crash Station]

You have failed to consider the more likely possibility: That they are no longer 'lovers.'

The way this thread has trended mirrors the Japanese thread so thoroughly that it is uncanny.

I really suggest that you look over that thread. Also suggest that you check how the JPN sale price of the game trended.

While you are at it, do the same for the Strange Journey thread as well. The criticisms of that game are generally mild (since it is not really that bad) but it stands in stark contrast to the crazy love it received in the beginning as well.

Hmmm. Interesting point. Too lazy to look through this thread so I'll just take your word for it. Kind of find it odd that so many lovers became haters seeing as all the haters now are complaining about the beginning of the game but I guess it's possible.

Well, we'll know when we get to the GOTY voting. I still think it'll be in the top 10 or at least top 15.

Not meaning to troll, but I have to vent.

This game is one of the most frustrating games I've played in a long time.

Im at Chp. 11, and Im playing it to completion as I dont want to waste the 30+ hours I've already spent to get to this point. But Ive never played a game I've hated so much story/gameplay/character-wise.

I'm sure some people like it, but I'm severely disappointed.

The "Moms are tough" line made me cringe.

So stop.

 

[Firestorm]

It's a game that overstays its welcome, so yeah, there are more "haters" as the game goes on and they start getting fed up with points that were only minor annoyances before.

 

[Fun Factor]

You have failed to consider the more likely possibility: That they are no longer 'lovers.'

The way this thread has trended mirrors the Japanese thread so thoroughly that it is uncanny.

I really suggest that you look over that thread. Also suggest that you check how the JPN sale price of the game trended.

While you are at it, do the same for the Strange Journey thread as well. The criticisms of that game are generally mild (since it is not really that bad) but it stands in stark contrast to the crazy love it received in the beginning as well.

I said it one & I said it before, there were a handful of people that hijacked pretty much the past 30+ pages & keep posting negative & negative posts non-stop.
Even now that Himuro & Amirox have officially left, I'd say half the negative posts will be gone from this thread.

As for Strange Journey discussion, well FFXIII sold 5 million copies worldwide. Strange Journey would be luck to break what? 100,000 worldwide?
So yeah, everyone who wants to buy SJ will not be ones who do not like the game.

 

[RoodyPooUS]

Just popping back in after seeing some discussion on RoF and FFXIII.

I have played and will continue to play all the Final Fantasy series, at least for the near future. I do think that other than the flashiness and graphics of FFXIII, there will be very little if any lasting effect. Nothing like the imprint that FF7, FFX, FF2-3 (US Version) have had.

I am already starting to forget what even the gameplay was like.

I played much of it just to get through it. I really felt pigeonholed and the lack of towns was bothersome. One of my favorite parts of RPGs is reaching the next big city, talking to everyone, exploring the stores, background on the world, etc. The world just felt detached, I don't even remember seeing and talking to people except near the end when they would say stuff when you were walking by, and those were just generic people.

After reading a bit on RoF, I decided to give it a chance. The game is much more fun than I had thought. It is more of an episodic game with chapters and short cutscenes. Kind of reminds me of Cowboy Bebop. I am also sure they named Vashyron after Vash the Stampede.

You are free to do so many different things. Other than the main missions, there is the Arena, side quests, weapon upgrading and farming which also involves tinkering, red challenge dots. Whenever I get bored of one, I go advance the chapter or do some of the challenges that pop up each chapter. If I am having trouble, I go level up or upgrade my weapons.

I actually stayed up all night playing it a few days ago, I don't even remember the last time I did that for any game.

The story isn't too deep yet but it doesn't try to be.

I see a lot of potential in making the battle system really amazing, although it is pretty good already.

 

[trejo]

OK, so I'm at what I'm assuming is the final boss for chapter 11

Spoiler

Barthandelus

and I think I don't want to play anymore.

Dude has HP in the millions! and after a while just casts Doom on me while I'm nowhere near close enough to finish him off in time. At this point I just shut the game off and haven't had the will to even put the disk back on the console.

I know if I grind for CP a bit and change my strategies I'll have a much easier time of it and I'll readily admit I love it when I can breeze through a previously tough boss battle after fiddling around with my paradigms but my God this game is such a fucking chore to play otherwise.

Gameplay is extremely linear.
Story is cringeworthy.
Characters are bland and uninteresting so it's hard to give a damn about anything they do or say. Except for Snow and Vanille. I hate those fuckers.

So I've invested over 40 hours on this shit. At first I kinda kept going cuz I kept reading all these comments about "wait till you get to Gran Pulse" and "the game's farts totally start smelling like roses at that point"and you know what? When I finally did get there I thought they were right. Finally seeing that huge expanse of land just feels sooo good and liberating but, the feeling only lasted like a couple of hours or so. After that it's back to magical background changing happy fun times tunnel.

All in all maybe I'll keep suffering through the game to see the ending, or maybe I won't. I'm kinda masochistic like that. All I know is that this game has been, by far, my biggest dissapointment of this generation. All those years of hype and trailers shown behind closed doors for this. Really?

Spoiler

I'm on the 360 version btw. For what it's worth.

 

[charsace]

An rpg that is story driven linear? Who would have thunk?
I mean, Holy shit what the fuck do you play jRPGS for?



*Looks at the SNES golden era RPGS*

A few towns that barely added anything & you only visit once. A world map, which you only can't fully access until towards the end of the games ( for which Gran Pulse essentially takes it's place in FFXIII).
Outside the different story driven point of the characters being on the run, FFXIII is exactly what FFIV-X where.

The witcher's story is linear, but the devs manage to give players choices and the story in the witcher is put together much better. Linear story is not an excuse to throw in straight path after straight path after straight path. 5+ years spent on a completely linear game and the writing is crap and handled poorly. In the time it took Square to release this game bioware has released 3 games with better pacing and writing.

 

[Cep]

The witcher's story is linear, but the devs manage to give players choices and the story in the witcher is put together much better. Linear story is not an excuse to throw in straight path after straight path after straight path. 5+ years spent on a completely linear game and the writing is crap and handled poorly. In the time it took Square to release this game bioware has released 3 games with better pacing and writing.

Best to use JRPG terms when having these discussions, else you risk it turning to something ugly.

 

[Rahxephon91]

The witcher's story is linear, but the devs manage to give players choices and the story in the witcher is put together much better. Linear story is not an excuse to throw in straight path after straight path after straight path. 5+ years spent on a completely linear game and the writing is crap and handled poorly. In the time it took Square to release this game bioware has released 3 games with better pacing and writing.

You say the writing is crap in FFXIII and then talk about The Witcher. ok? And Bioware games do not have super amazing writing. They all have more cringe worthy things then FFXIII. Both Mass Effect and Dragon Age have pretty terrible casts outside like 2 or 3 characters in each game. Hell no one outside of the 3 main characters in Dragon Age at all was good. Mass Effect is also super generic sci-fi just like XIII is generic anime or whatever. On top of that all 3 bioware games have the same boring pacing and in Mass Effect 2 it kind of hurts the story.

Besides FF isn't even really that comparable to what either of those games try to do.

 

[d0c_zaius]

truth

I'm at the exact same place, and I agree completely with everything you wrote. I was going to give up but instead I'm spending my lunch breaks grinding CP from the annoying enemies in the area.

Im on the ps3 version if that matters.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Best to use JRPG terms when having these discussions, else you risk it turning to something ugly.

Too late, worms have escaped the can.

 

[Cep]

On second thought, that post is so dumb, I think I will refrain from posting more on it.

 

[charsace]

You say the writing is crap in FFXIII and then talk about The Witcher. ok? And Bioware games do not have super amazing writing. They all have more cringe worthy things then FFXIII. Both Mass Effect have pretty terrible casts outside like 2 or 3 characters in each game. Hell no one outside of the 3 main characters in Dragon Age at all was good. Mass Effect is also super generic sci-fi just like XIII is generic anime or whatever. On top of that all 3 bioware games have the same boring pacing and in Mass Effect 2 it kind of hurts the story.

Besides FF isn't even really that comparable to what either of those games try to do.

:lol
Did we play the same games? FF13 has better writing and pacing than the witcher, ME 1 and 2, and DAO? The last FF that had a well done plot, pacing and decent writing was 9. 10 was crap in almost every way the only good things about that game were the battle system and the cringe worthy romance for the laughs.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I would like to first say that I am no Bioware toad, but I am forced to say that this must be your craziest post to date.

Well I was in a psych ward a couple of weeks ago.

:lol
Did we play the same games? FF13 has better writing and pacing than the witcher, ME 1 and 2, and DAO? The last FF that had a well done plot, pacing and decent writing was 9. 10 was crap in almost every way the only good things about that game were the battle system and the cringe worthy romance for the laughs.

The Witcher has the worst dialogue ever. I'm pretty sure the game opens up with the guy saying babe every five mins. Does FFXIII have better writing then them. No. They are all equally shitty. The only thing is that FFXIII is actually interesting unlike generic sci fi Mass Effect where Mordin and Garrus are the only likable characters.

And X's romance is much better portrayed then Mass Effect were after 3 talks people love you. Does it reek of teeny bopper stuff. Yep but it's more naturally developed then the binary relationships in any Bioware game/

 

[Cep]

Well I was in a psych ward a couple of weeks ago.

If true: Sorry to hear that, I know what it is like.

On topic: Homes, I suggest go into a corner and think on some the things that you have said in this thread.

With that, I am out!

 

[charsace]

Some of you don't understand why I'm angry with this game. This game pisses me off because its a huge letdown when you compare it to square's best. At this point I would just love to see older jrpgs updated and touched up because the new shit has been a letdown and FF13 is biggest letdown of them all.

 

[Roche]

I'm thoroughly enjoying this game, about to go onto chapter 13 and I've got little to complain about.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Some of you don't understand why I'm angry with this game. This game pisses me off because its a huge letdown when you compare it to square's best. At this point I would just love to see older jrpgs updated and touched up because the new shit has been a letdown and FF13 is biggest letdown of them all.

I went in with no expectations since XII was such a bad game, so I ended up being mildly entertained overall, and the gameplay is just phenomenal.

The rest, aside from the gorgeous graphics/music, can be written off.

 

[Amir0x]

*Looks at the SNES golden era RPGS*

A few towns that barely added anything & you only visit once. A world map, which you only can't fully access until towards the end of the games ( for which Gran Pulse essentially takes it's place in FFXIII).

Hey look it's revisionist history hour again! Let's see how much bullshit we can make up to support our absurd opinions!

 

[dramatis]

I said it one & I said it before, there were a handful of people that hijacked pretty much the past 30+ pages & keep posting negative & negative posts non-stop.
Even now that Himuro & Amirox have officially left, I'd say half the negative posts will be gone from this thread.

As for Strange Journey discussion, well FFXIII sold 5 million copies worldwide. Strange Journey would be luck to break what? 100,000 worldwide?
So yeah, everyone who wants to buy SJ will not be ones who do not like the game.

Is THIS your bullshit logic? That the better game is the one that sells millions, and gets fantastic reviews across the board? Then by your logic Modern Warfare 2 is a much better game than FF13, no?

It's stupidly blind to pretend that if the negative posters go away that FF13 will be magically fixed. It's also stupid to insist that the people who don't like FF13 are a "handful", as if there weren't many, many posters who had come and gone. Is it completely outside of your ability to look at the game logically and think fundamentally about what a game is, and how FF13 is the model of what a game is not or should not be?

Or are you so caught up in the pop and flash and the drama to realize how shallow the whole experience is?

 

[Adent]

Finally 5 starred mission 64.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Or are you so caught up in the pop and flash and the drama to realize how shallow the whole experience is?

It's also kind of lame logic to assume everyone is going to have the same view as you do.

And a group of gaf poster who dislike the game really doesn't mean anything.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Is THIS your bullshit logic? That the better game is the one that sells millions, and gets fantastic reviews across the board? Then by your logic Modern Warfare 2 is a much better game than FF13, no?

It's stupidly blind to pretend that if the negative posters go away that FF13 will be magically fixed. It's also stupid to insist that the people who don't like FF13 are a "handful", as if there weren't many, many posters who had come and gone. Is it completely outside of your ability to look at the game logically and think fundamentally about what a game is, and how FF13 is the model of what a game is not or should not be?

Or are you so caught up in the pop and flash and the drama to realize how shallow the whole experience is?

On the other hand, you're also completely lambasting people for even liking the game at all, which is fucking stupid and condescending and makes your entire argument fall apart.

 

[Amir0x]

Is THIS your bullshit logic? That the better game is the one that sells millions, and gets fantastic reviews across the board? Then by your logic Modern Warfare 2 is a much better game than FF13, no?

It's stupidly blind to pretend that if the negative posters go away that FF13 will be magically fixed. It's also stupid to insist that the people who don't like FF13 are a "handful", as if there weren't many, many posters who had come and gone. Is it completely outside of your ability to look at the game logically and think fundamentally about what a game is, and how FF13 is the model of what a game is not or should not be?

Or are you so caught up in the pop and flash and the drama to realize how shallow the whole experience is?

FTWer argued that FFXIII must be more popular because the thread had more posts than the FFXII thread.

These are not people that use logic.

 

[d0c_zaius]

It's also kind of lame logic to assume everyone is going to have the same view as you do.

The only thing is that FFXIII is actually interesting unlike generic sci fi Mass Effect where Mordin and Garrus are the only likable characters.

uh ok then

I don't think I have to type imo after everything

ok you missed my point. thats fine

 

[Rahxephon91]

uh ok then

I don't think I have to type imo after everything or do you need everything spelled out for you. If so to bad, I suck at spelling.

Its not like I said

"Open your eyes and see that Mass effect is generic"

 

[Amir0x]

The amusing thing is that they would take the horrendous writing over something that is often supremely well written with fantastic characterization, as long as it's not something that they deem is "generic."

When a single Square Enix RPG ever has a character that participates in a discussion even remotely as deep as the genophage debates in ME2, we might be finally getting somewhere. I'll take a generic setting if they can even do that.

 

[ZephyrFate]

The amusing thing is that they would take the horrendous writing over something that is often supremely well written with fantastic characterization, as long as it's not something that they deem is "generic."

When a single Square Enix RPG ever has a character that participates in a discussion even remotely as deep as the genophage debates in ME2, we might be finally getting somewhere. I'll take a generic setting if they can even do that.

Drakengard I had some pretty awesome conversations between Caim and Angelus.

 

[Rahxephon91]

The amusing thing is that they would take the horrendous writing over something that is often supremely well written with fantastic characterization, as long as it's not something that they deem is "generic."

When a single Square Enix RPG ever has a character that participates in a discussion even remotely as deep as the genophage debates in ME2, we might be finally getting somewhere. I'll take a generic setting if they can even do that.

How is anything in Mass Effect deep or well written?

Having some shades of gray does not make something deep or well written. Yeah ME2 does not sugar coat things like FFXIII, but its hardly deep or anywhere close to well written.

Both Mass Effect 2 and FFXIII have the same problems when it comes to storytelling. They like to beat you over the head with what ever grave and questionable thing happens. They seem to assume the audience is dumb and pick up on things in subtle ways. I'm pretty sure I can understand Lighting and Miranda's problems without them having to announce whats going on. Hell Mass Effect 2 is worse because no one announces their problems and personality like ME2 characters. After the 2nd time of talking to me I'm not going to sit here and tell you my life story and how I think. Thats what happens in Mass Effect. Except Mass Effect hides it better with less awkward dialogue and "witty" things.

Yeah XIII is also bad. I'm not going to walk up my friend and say "I see it now. I was born on my parents leash and am nothing but a pet ,but I MUST FIGHT on". No I would say "Man parent's suck" or something like that. I wouldn't sit her and say melodramatic things. I also wouldn't say melodramatic things to my teacher who I've known for 1 day.

Game writing isn't subtle and they don't write multi-layerd things. That happens on both sides of the pond.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

My clairvoyance tells me this will end well.

 

[Amir0x]

How is anything in Mass Effect deep or well written?

Having some shades of gray does not make something deep or well written. Yeah ME2 does not sugar coat things like FFXIII, but its hardly deep or anywhere close to well written.

The genophage discussion, which I just mentioned, is so many billions of times more complex and layered than anything in FFXIII - not to mention better written - that it would take someone being intentionally ignorant to claim otherwise.

It's also more complex and layered than anything in any SquareEnix game to date. It's not merely about being 'shades of grey' - although for fuck sake a Square game can use some motherfuckin' nuance.

It's about the way sentences are written, the way individuals communicate with each other. In Mass Effect 2, since we keep coming back to this game, individuals communicate like real people, impacting real events through the logical rules of their universe.

In FFXIII, everything is written in crayon, repeated over and over (presumably because they think the audience is retarded), and they can't even do THAT well. The script is terrible.

Others have gone over the near endless repeating of Fal'cie, L'cie, Focus, or the cheese-factor lines like "I'm a Hero" and shit, but that's the entire fucking script.

Really, one can prefer one game to the other, but I'm gonna to stop short of saying it's possible to think the writing in ME2 isn't light years ahead of FFXIII. I'd go as far as to say it's a fact.

And it's not like ME2 is this amazingly written landmark in gaming, but boy is it ever beyond what we have here.

 

[Rahxephon91]

The genophage discussion, which I just mentioned, is so many billions of times more complex and layered than anything in FFXIII - not to mention better written - that it would take someone being intentionally ignorant to claim otherwise.

It's also more complex and layered than anything in any SquareEnix game to date. It's not merely about being 'shades of grey' - although for fuck sake a Square game can use some motherfuckin' nuance.

It's about the way sentences are written, the way individuals communicate with each other. In Mass Effect 2, since we keep coming back to this game, individuals communicate like real people, impacting real events through the logical rules of their universe.

In FFXIII, everything is written in crayon, repeated over and over (presumably because they think the audience is retarded), and they can't even do THAT well. The script is terrible.

Others have gone over the near endless repeating of Fal'cie, L'cie, Focus, or the cheese-factor lines like "I'm a Hero" and shit, but that's the entire fucking script.

Really, one can prefer one game to the other, but I'm gonna to stop short of saying it's possible to think the writing in ME2 isn't light years ahead of FFXIII. I'd go as far as to say it's a fact.

And it's not like ME2 is this amazingly written landmark in gaming, but boy is it ever beyond what we have here.

Heres what I have to say

Both Mass Effect 2 and FFXIII have the same problems when it comes to storytelling. They like to beat you over the head with what ever grave and questionable thing happens. They seem to assume the audience is dumb and pick up on things in subtle ways. I'm pretty sure I can understand Lighting and Miranda's problems without them having to announce whats going on. Hell Mass Effect 2 is worse because no one announces their problems and personality like ME2 characters. After the 2nd time of talking to me I'm not going to sit here and tell you my life story and how I think. Thats what happens in Mass Effect. Except Mass Effect hides it better with less awkward dialogue and "witty" things.

Yeah XIII is also bad. I'm not going to walk up my friend and say "I see it now. I was born on my parents leash and am nothing but a pet ,but I MUST FIGHT on". No I would say "Man parent's suck" or something like that. I wouldn't sit her and say melodramatic things. I also wouldn't say melodramatic things to my teacher who I've known for 1 day.

Game writing isn't subtle and they don't write multi-layerd things. That happens on both sides of the pond. So no I don't think ME2 has better writing then FFXIII when they suffer from the same problems. Mass Effect just hides the crappy writing better.

 

[biggersmaller]

I thoroughly enjoyed this FF. Its easy-going tunnel-play is relaxing after a hard day's work. Not that I don't like the past games either.

It's evolution, not revolution people.

 

[Amir0x]

It's just pretty convenient to try to claim they're equal, or worse yet, that "I'd go as far as to say ME is even worse." To think this is simply factually incorrect. I don't care how obsessed one is with Nomura-verse or anime crap, there is no possible way one can read each script and make them equivalent. There is nothing, not a single remote thing, in FFXIII that ever approaches the depth of something like the genophage discussion. It's just simply light years beyond.

There is no way to reconcile our viewpoints because to think such a thing is simply a brick wall. There's no way to reason against that insanity. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I can't see where we go from here.

 

[Papercuts]

Hell Mass Effect 2 is worse because no one announces their problems and personality like ME2 characters. After the 2nd time of talking to me I'm not going to sit here and tell you my life story and how I think. Thats what happens in Mass Effect. Except Mass Effect hides it better with less awkward dialogue and "witty" things.

Yeah XIII is also bad. I'm not going to walk up my friend and say "I see it now. I was born on my parents leash and am nothing but a pet ,but I MUST FIGHT on". No I would say "Man parent's suck" or something like that. I wouldn't sit her and say melodramatic things. I also wouldn't say melodramatic things to my teacher who I've known for 1 day.

Game writing isn't subtle and they don't write multi-layerd things. That happens on both sides of the pond. So no I don't think ME2 has better writing then FFXIII when they suffer from the same problems. Mass Effect just hides the crappy writing better.

The difference is the squad members spilling their guts to Shepherd makes sense in context of the scenario. He's the leader of the suicide mission, they already trust him with their life to be there in the first place. The romance stuff is always pretty fast forwarded, but I always think the rest fits perfectly.

I thoroughly enjoyed this FF. Its easy-going tunnel-play is relaxing after a hard day's work. Not that I don't like the past games either.

It's evolution, not revolution people.

If RPG "evolution" is downgrading every aspect to the core combat for 50 hours, count me out. I'm enjoying FFXIII to an extent, but I'm at the last dungeon and having a lot of trouble to just finish it. The fact there isn't a single stretch of linear progression that even feels like a well designed dungeon is something I think doesn't get mentioned enough. I don't really mind if an RPG removes minigames, towns, etc. but you better have some great dungeon design to make up for it...which isn't present here at all.

 

[abombb]

Finally finished the game, and Jesus, that ending really made up for all the frustration I had with the final boss.:lol

 

[charsace]

I thoroughly enjoyed this FF. Its easy-going tunnel-play is relaxing after a hard day's work. Not that I don't like the past games either.

It's evolution, not revolution people.

Evolution into an action game? There is no role playing or side quests at all and I am 15 hours in. To me it seems like the devs were running out of time and cut corners.

 

[Amir0x]

The difference is the squad members spilling their guts to Shepherd makes sense in context of the scenario. He's the leader of the suicide mission, they already trust him with their life to be there in the first place. The romance stuff is always pretty fast forwarded, but I always think the rest fits perfectly.

The overall plot of ME2 especially kind of goes nowhere, but I think the comparrison between the two games is apt because they're both character driven affairs. They live and die on their interactions between two characters.

It is telling in how they deal with genocide. In FFXIII, the game opens with a genocide... it happens, it's breezed over in a few sentences, and there is no statement at all whatsoever on what occurred on a moral or philosophical level. It's just a reason why the state is evil, and a reason why they need to be destroyed. Meanwhile, all this stuff is discussed married to abysmal writing.

In ME2, we also have a genocide. This genocide is highly controversial. It has multiple viewpoints and there is multiple legitimate ways to look at it. Characters discuss it with great emotional anguish; as if they are fighting with their own demons over it. Characters have weight and believability.

Characters in FFXIII are caricatures, stereotypes within stereotypes meant to appease a certain subset of gamers who already have their expectations set so low that they couldn't tell the difference between good writing and bad even if they tried.

 

[Otheradam]

I agree with Amir0x. To add to that, if we're comparing ME2 and FF13, which even if it's technically both "rpgs" are not similar at all, ME2's story/dialogue has a sophistication that is way beyond anything in FF13. Mordin's genophage discussion actually makes you think. It adds a layer to the game universe that isn't just "oh thats cool" but actually makes the world seem believable and real. There is nothing in FF13 that even approaches this level of sophistication in story telling.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The difference is the squad members spilling their guts to Shepherd makes sense in context of the scenario. He's the leader of the suicide mission, they already trust him with their life to be there in the first place. The romance stuff is always pretty fast forwarded, but I always think the rest fits perfectly.

That's not exactly true, since one of the game's major focus(lol)es is to get those characters to start trusting Shep and work with instead of just working for him.

 

[Amir0x]

Also, just as a precursor to expected points, this isn't an argument against simple storytelling. I love simple stories that are well told. FFXIII is not that, though.

That's not exactly true, since one of the game's major focus(lol)es is to get those characters to start trusting Shep and work with instead of just working for him.

And, appropriately, the characters don't fully discuss their past with you until you complete their loyalty missions and progress in the game.

Logical.