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[WolvenOne]

Also the nerfs to aoe damage on spells like flare and holy.

Not reluctant to nerf classes at all if that's what they feel like doing.

Again, that was during an expansion. Some rebalancing during expansions should probably be expected. That's a bit different then a mid-patch cycle nerf.

Besides, again the problem is more with Paladin being too weak rather than Warrior or Dark Knight being too strong.

 

[Sorian]

Again, that was during an expansion. Some rebalancing during expansions should probably be expected. That's a bit different then a mid-patch cycle nerf.

Besides, again the problem is more with Paladin being too weak rather than Warrior or Dark Knight being too strong.

The real answer is they might buff PLD or they might nerf WAR, it could go either way and really DRK is the only tank in the good middle ground. Saying they favor buffs over nerfs is ridiculous when SE has been known to do both.

Edit: They also might not do anything at all which is more what I'm expecting. PLDs are bitching over nothing and WARs could use a slight nerf bat but meh.

 

[studyguy]

This game is how I get keys to closed betas to play with others on Mumble. By the way, anybody have spare keys to the upcoming Black Desert closed beta or is planning on playing? I would like to play with some others.

I got a key the same way.
Already downloaded and ready for BD

Also moving goalposts is all we do with tank changes all day every day.
If it wasn't for the LB reduction, we'd basically have every team be dual WAR.

 

[WolvenOne]

The real answer is they might buff PLD or they might nerf WAR, it could go either way and really DRK is the only tank in the good middle ground. Saying they favor buffs over nerfs is ridiculous when SE has been known to do both.

Edit: They also might not do anything at all which is more what I'm expecting. PLDs are bitching over nothing and WARs could use a slight nerf bat but meh.

Oh ha ha.

Look, yes they changed a lot of skills during the expansion, but they also gave each class a lot of new skills to work with. Really, when an expansion hits class balance is going to change somewhat as a result of all this, so I wouldn't really call that as a class nerf in the traditional sense. Especially since every class ended up essentially being stronger by the time everything was said and done.

Also, the reason why I don't think Warrior will get a big nerf, is because up until this point to do the sort of damage we're known for, we've had to sacrifice survivability for DPS. Most of these class comparisons made by people bellyaching the most are usually comparing full Vit PLD's to full STR or Crafted ACC Warriors. Comparing the DPS of those two is almost an apples and oranges comparison.

Besides that, we're going to see a change to how accessories work in 3.2, and it's likely that this'll end up subtly nerfing all the tank classes at least slightly.

 

[Ken]

I got a key the same way.
Already downloaded and ready for BD

Also moving goalposts is all we do with tank changes all day every day.
If it wasn't for the LB reduction, we'd basically have every team be dual WAR.

JP do dual WAR even with LB reduction though.

Also I think even NA was open to dual WAR being superior in A1S and A2S.

 

[studyguy]

Been hoarding my eso just to see what happens with Accessories.
All I have on is Slaying anyway.

 

[Sorian]

stuff

Nuadha please. I don't really care about your tank debate. You said they are reluctant to nerf classes and I said that's not the case. You can tell me why they might buff a different tank instead of nerfing WAR and that's fine, but at the end of the day, a nerf is just as likely and making an excuse for each example of past nerfing doesn't change that.

Also, let's be real, WARs are overpowered, they are basically a 5th shitty DPS for each group that can also tank. You aren't sacrificing survivability, it's the same logic that someone brought up earlier about vit vs. str. More vit is more health and that's great but if your healers are competent and you know how to CD then that "survivability" doesn't matter and it just there to help baddies, it's not actually needed.

 

[WolvenOne]

Nuadha please. I don't really care about your tank debate. You said they are reluctant to nerf classes and I said that's not the case. You can tell me why they might buff a different tank instead of nerfing WAR and that's fine, but at the end of the day, a nerf is just as likely and making an excuse for each example of past nerfing doesn't change that.

Also, let's be real, WARs are overpowered, they are basically a 5th shitty DPS for each group that can also tank. You aren't sacrificing survivability, it's the same logic that someone brought up earlier about vit vs. str. More vit is more health and that's great but if your healers are competent and you know how to CD then that "survivability" doesn't matter and it just there to help baddies, it's not actually needed.

You named, "ONE NERF," that was pretty subtle. Everything else you mentioned was changes made during the expansion, which as I said before doesn't really count since all the classes ended up being stronger after all the new abilities were added in.

As for Warriors being OP. No not really, most Warriors cannot get the sort of numbers some people have reported, and while you may dismiss the reduced survivability I assure you it makes a difference.

Honestly I'd rather they just slightly buff PLD to get them a bit closer DPS wise. That, or make them even more turtley so Healers can just go DPS crazy or something.

 

[irfaanator]

ah OT back to usual

 

[Sorian]

You named, "ONE NERF," that was pretty subtle. Everything else you mentioned was changes made during the expansion, which as I said before doesn't really count since all the classes ended up being stronger after all the new abilities were added in.

The classes are stronger because they went from 50 to 60, a nerf is still a nerf when compared to the expected increase from the curve that is expected from going from 50 to 60. Adjustments will always just be made to put outliers back in line with the others. Tanks are in a place where it could go either direction because PLD is too low and WAR is too high. It's really simple.

Spoiler

No changes are coming, everyone can put it back in their pants regardless, SE thinks gear changes in 3.2 will solve everything including cancer.

 

[Ken]

NIN took a damage and TP nerf in 2.45.
DRG got their defense fix in 2.45 and many buffs all throughout 2.x.
Many skills got nerfed in 2.1 including Holy potency, Virus, and Rain of Death. WAR got their rework here.
AST and MCH got buffs post 3.0.

PLDs can probably be fine without a DPS buff. What they need first is adjustments to not feel like a 3.0 job designed for 2.0, and to get something better than Clemency.

 

[WolvenOne]

PLDs can probably be fine without a DPS buff. What they need first is adjustments to not feel like a 3.0 job designed for 2.0, and to get something better than Clemency.

Probably, I've not really played the class in 3.X, but it does sound like Clemency was a bit of a let-down.

 

[Ken]

We received similar request in the past and wanted to let you all know that we haven't forgotten about the desire for more natural-looking sleep emotes. Due to various development tasks that took higher priority, this has been pushed back a bit; however, we are developing new sleep emotes, so please hang in there!

/doze buffs inc.

Sorry PLDs.

 

[Altered Juice]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001295.html


lmao

"the fuck did you just say to me, BITCH??????

 

[Ken]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001295.html

campus-life

Sweet.

HyurElezensElezensElezens

Rip.

 

[xxczx]

While PLD in PvE is zzzzzzzzz I'm in love with PLD in PvP atm

 

[studyguy]

While PLD in PvE is zzzzzzzzz I'm in love with PLD in PvP atm

pld PVP has always been stellar.

 

[rubius01]

While PLD in PvE is zzzzzzzzz I'm in love with PLD in PvP atm

I see the flames are doing great as usual.

 

[irfaanator]

I see the flames are doing great as usual.

good thing its on another data center

 

[WolvenOne]

Flames do okay on Primal Data Center these days, and I hear we have the shortest queues, soooooo... XD

PS: New Christmas beard is dyeable.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I'm pretty sure you always had the shortest queues!

 

[WolvenOne]

I'm pretty sure you always had the shortest queues!

Pretty sure you're right, but who knows, things could change at any time.

 

[Ken]

There was like a week during original Frontlines when everyone on Primals heard about IF's queue times and swapped over, killing our queue times.

 

[WolvenOne]

There was like a week during original Frontlines when everyone on Primals heard about IF's queue times and swapped over, killing our queue times.

 

[Valor]

When talking about buffs versus nerfs all I have to say is bard. Class has been nerfed on the regular and the latest case of that is the decrease in potency of empyreal arrow and sidewinder when they fixed minuet to not be garbage. If they kept those two attacks where they were at 3.0's launch I doubt that our dps would be as joke tier as people say. Nerfs everywhereeeeeeee.

Also nerfing warrior doesn't solve the problem of paladin being pretty much hot garbage

Spoiler

in comparison to the other two tank options

 

[Sorian]

When talking about buffs versus nerfs all I have to say is bard. Class has been nerfed on the regular and the latest case of that is the decrease in potency of empyreal arrow and sidewinder when they fixed minuet to not be garbage. If they kept those two attacks where they were at 3.0's launch I doubt that our dps would be as joke tier as people say. Nerfs everywhereeeeeeee.

Nah bro, that was around an expac and it was so slight and it totally doesn't count just like the rain of death nerf in 2.1, get outta here, doesn't count.

 

[Valor]

Nah bro, that was around an expac and it was so slight and it totally doesn't count just like the rain of death nerf in 2.1, get outta here, doesn't count.

Yeah just like the rain of death nerf and the blood for blood nerf and the internal release nerf and the mantra nerf. They're all very slight and clearly don't count. Square will clearly hit that buff button like they've done for dragoon and warrior and literally no one else for the past two years.

Real talk though I'm very interested to see how classes look by 3.3 or 3.4.

 

[Sorian]

Real talk though I'm very interested to see how classes look by 3.3 or 3.4.

I think they are going to try and balance things with a lot of underlying stat changes (the talk of what they are doing with str and vit when it comes to tanks is a good example). I'm not expecting a lot of class changes between now and then, just more changes in how stats work.

 

[WolvenOne]

When talking about buffs versus nerfs all I have to say is bard. Class has been nerfed on the regular and the latest case of that is the decrease in potency of empyreal arrow and sidewinder when they fixed minuet to not be garbage. If they kept those two attacks where they were at 3.0's launch I doubt that our dps would be as joke tier as people say. Nerfs everywhereeeeeeee.

Also nerfing warrior doesn't solve the problem of paladin being pretty much hot garbage

Spoiler

in comparison to the other two tank options

Don't worry, someday your buffs will come. *Queue musical theme copyrighted by Disney.*

Also, yeah you're right. You could nerf Warrior to be on par with Paladin, but then you'd still have one more tank class that outperforms PLD in many if not most situations. I might also note that the idea of Warrior, is that it rewards players for taking higher risks. Even in 2.X it had a lot of that, 3.X just codified it and took it to the next logical extension.

PLD just needs some tweaking to make it a better class all around. Cause they're not nerfing two tank classes to make one single tank class more viable.

 

[iammeiam]

When talking about buffs versus nerfs all I have to say is bard. Class has been nerfed on the regular and the latest case of that is the decrease in potency of empyreal arrow and sidewinder when they fixed minuet to not be garbage. If they kept those two attacks where they were at 3.0's launch I doubt that our dps would be as joke tier as people say. Nerfs everywhereeeeeeee.

Bard isn't exactly special there, though--Machinist lost potency from Gauss Round and Ricochet when GB got the same buff Minuet got, but it was still overall better for the job. I hesitate to call the potency decreases in two skills combined with a 10% increase in strength of like... all the things... a real nerf.

There's the piercing debuff issue and the kiddy table WD issue keeping ranged down, but in practice we're... really not that badly off. We're still short, but I feel like the gap is less dramatic than it was in 2.x.

 

[scy]

I might also note that the idea of Warrior, is that it rewards players for taking higher risks. Even in 2.X it had a lot of that, 3.X just codified it and took it to the next logical extension.

Let's be realistic here, it doesn't matter what tank I'm on, I'd be geared the exact same and my approach to DPS while tanking would be the same. I'd gear to ~18k HP, focus on STR, and minimize use of my lower potency combo. There's no 'risk' in what I do on Warrior.

 

[Sorian]

Don't worry, someday your buffs will come. *Queue musical theme copyrighted by Disney.*

Also, yeah you're right. You could nerf Warrior to be on par with Paladin, but then you'd still have one more tank class that outperforms PLD in many if not most situations. I might also note that the idea of Warrior, is that it rewards players for taking higher risks. Even in 2.X it had a lot of that, 3.X just codified it and took it to the next logical extension.

PLD just needs some tweaking to make it a better class all around. Cause they're not nerfing two tank classes to make one single tank class more viable.

I'd argue this is a fight design issue more than anything. DRK is more sought after because they line up better with the two hardest fights in the game. They could have flipped the damage type and suddenly PLD is better.

 

[studyguy]

Honestly I find it more taxing to keep DPS high with PLD or DRK now than it is to just face roll WAR competently. There's nothing in 3.0 that makes me quake in my boots either as a tank when it comes to damage. Idk. It just doesn't feel dangerous to go balls to the wall DPS on any tank atm.

 

[WolvenOne]

My biggest concern with Bards right now, is that they're kinda crippled unless there's a DRG in your party. Unless they added another way to get that piercing debuff without me realizing it...

Granted, not my class, so perhaps there are much bigger problems then I realize.

Honestly I find it more taxing to keep DPS high with PLD or DRK now than it is to just face roll WAR competently. There's nothing in 3.0 that makes me quake in my boots either as a tank when it comes to damage. Idk. It just doesn't feel dangerous to go balls to the wall DPS on any tank atm.

Perhaps it's just the fact that I've got my experience now, but yeah. In T13 I was TERRIFIED of using more Slaying accessories, in A3S I feel like I could practically go all slaying and still live through things. Mind you, in part that's because the damage spikes are pretty darn predictable in that fight.

 

[ebil]

Yeah just like the rain of death nerf and the blood for blood nerf and the internal release nerf and the mantra nerf. They're all very slight and clearly don't count. Square will clearly hit that buff button like they've done for dragoon and warrior and Monk and Black Mage and literally no one else for the past two years.

Other than that, yeah you're right.

RIP Cross-class Thunder too. ;_;

 

[Ken]

My biggest concern with Bards right now, is that they're kinda crippled unless there's a DRG in your party. Unless they added another way to get that piercing debuff without me realizing it...

Granted, not my class, so perhaps there are much bigger problems then I realize.

Bards have like three weaponskills dedicated to DoTs that aren't as impacted by Disembowel though.

 

[WolvenOne]

Bards have like three weaponskills dedicated to DoTs that aren't as impacted by Disembowel though.

Yes I know, dots aren't affected by the debuff, it's just initial damage. Despite that, from what I've heard the piercing debuff is an additional 4-7% damage increase for Bards. That's very significant.

 

[iammeiam]

Over a full-run of A3S a DRG in the party is ~70-80 DPS gain over a NIN for me based on the one DRG-free run we did. Disembowel + Litany vs Trick Attack. And A3S is arguably the floor where it will make the biggest difference since there's no point where I'm attacking a target the DRG isn't for any length of time (adds section adds blow up and it's a low damage section), while 1 and 4 both have repeat adds sections that take multiple GCDs each where I get no Disembowel and 2 is 2.

It's definitely a flaw in their goal for freeform group comps as it makes a part of the party noticeably dependent on another class, and it'd be nice to have an option to self-sustain the debuff, but it's not have a DRG or do nothing. I think the situation is probably slightly better for BRD since they have DoT things.


Obviously the solution is for everyone to roll DRG/NIN/MCH because TA/Litany/Hypercharge is lols.

 

[Frumix]

My biggest concern with Bards right now, is that they're kinda crippled unless there's a DRG in your party. Unless they added another way to get that piercing debuff without me realizing it...

It's not that big of a deal. In dungeons it's kinda whatever because you can't expect DRG to Disembowel all the things and in raids DRGs have a 100% guaranteed spot until the end of time because of Litany so if you don't have one you should consider getting another raid group.

 

[Eldren]

The talk of data centres earlier reminded me that I wanted to ask, how have the EU servers been since they actually moved to Europe? I've been having some problems on Ultros recently and tonight was borderline unplayable. Even changing gearsets or accessing the marketboard took like 5 seconds to actually process. I was nearly killed a couple of times doing the Vanu dailies because my hits weren't registering and then it turned out I'd eaten a load of damage that didn't even appear to happen. It's been like this for a while now.

Even though I basically never contribute in the FC chat I enjoy seeing other people talking and I'd miss GAF but I'm starting to wonder if it might be worth transferring to Cerberus or something. Going back to levelling my Ninja from 50 has been a struggle, I'm so sick of that damn rabbit.

 

[ebil]

The talk of data centres earlier reminded me that I wanted to ask, how have the EU servers been since they actually moved to Europe? I've been having some problems on Ultros recently and tonight was borderline unplayable. Even changing gearsets or accessing the marketboard took like 5 seconds to actually process. I was nearly killed a couple of times doing the Vanu dailies because my hits weren't registering and then it turned out I'd eaten a load of damage that didn't even appear to happen. It's been like this for a while now.

Even though I basically never contribute in the FC chat I enjoy seeing other people talking and I'd miss GAF but I'm starting to wonder if it might be worth transferring to Cerberus or something. Going back to levelling my Ninja from 50 has been a struggle, I'm so sick of that damn rabbit.

Most people I know have seen vast improvements. I know some who have been experiencing difficulties early on depending on their ISP (Virgin, Orange...) but it's mostly been sorted out. As far as I'm concerned it was a night and day difference. I have completely stopped using tunneling services and my experience is smoother than it has ever been (mudras acted like they do in those JP videos even before 3.1), but YMMV depending on where you live and your ISP. Our MNK who lives in Istanbul does not feel as much of a difference as I do and I've heard à few middle-eastern people complain that it somehow got worse for them.

Some people complain they're also experiencing lag whenever a maintenance/update is approaching but that seemed to be the case with the NA data center as well.

 

[WolvenOne]

Hmm, I can understand why they held off on putting the new Relics into 3.1, barely. I wonder why they held off on these new side quests though. I mean, I doubt it'll drop anything that's really relevant to the raid or whatnot.

It's not that big of a deal. In dungeons it's kinda whatever because you can't expect DRG to Disembowel all the things and in raids DRGs have a 100% guaranteed spot until the end of time because of Litany so if you don't have one you should consider getting another raid group.

Don't wanna be the straw that breaks my current raid groups back. XD

 

[BadRNG]

I'd argue this is a fight design issue more than anything. DRK is more sought after because they line up better with the two hardest fights in the game. They could have flipped the damage type and suddenly PLD is better.

This is something I'm worried about next tier, if they switch to heavy/consistent melee damage then DRK is going to hurt. As is fight damage is pretty much tuned perfectly for DRK's kit.

Don't wanna be the straw that breaks my current raid groups back. XD

From what you've been saying recently, I'd say it's already broken, just no one has noticed yet.

 

[Tabris]

Doesn't matter if the fights were all mainly physical, the DPS difference between the two classes (DRK and PLD, or PLD and WAR) is too high. Until that's fixed, PLD will always be 2nd tier to those two jobs. Unless they made it so the amount of physical damage exceeds the amount DRK's can take main tanking vs what PLD's can take. But this game is designed around "can you survive X hit with Y cooldown? if so, healer A is going to cast Healing Magic B which will have the same result no matter what X hit is for"

Just need to look to fflogs for the stats for most many fights. People with similar rankings on PLD list vs DRK or WAR list - DRKs are 200 DPS higher and WAR's are 300 DPS higher.

 

[JORMBO]

It's impossible to get anything out of Alex normal since they removed the lockout.

 

[Omni]

Who the hell bails in a Thordan Ex clear party when we hit 9%?!

Blaaaaaaaah. Best DPS I've ever had in a group. 69% in the first phase. Almost completely killed the Knight charging Sacred Cross. Destroyed all the Meteors. We didn't even use LB3 yet... Then the tank decides to leave. At worst, just one hour to clean up some of the mechanics and we would have had it.

It's impossible to get anything out of Alex normal since they removed the lockout.

I actually haven't even run it once since they removed it. It already felt like a pain before. Can't imagine what it's like now

 

[JORMBO]

I actually haven't even run it once since they removed it. It already felt like a pain before. Can't imagine what it's like now

It's 8 people rolling on everything. Haven't been able to get a ring in 12+ runs.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Better off just running spamming Diadem or the new dungeons for alt gear. Clearing even A1N is too much of a struggle.

 

[Kagari]

It's impossible to get anything out of Alex normal since they removed the lockout.

Just do Void Ark.

 

[ThinFinn]

Fuck A4S

Believe in the Lightning Glamour



(Seriously though: Thank you Drama and Victor and anyone I missed for rotating weakness buff for us, and GAF in general for putting up with our buff greediness.)

Congrats on the clear you guys!

We also got it last night! Got mah bow and mount. \o/

Really glad to have squeezed it in before people start leaving for the holidays.