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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.
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VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
It's clear that they need to change a lot. If it doesn't happen I'm ready to jump ship to another job.
Whatever changes they're making we probably won't see until June when the preloaded client gets datamined.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
I guess I played so many dps classes and nin just doesn't feel as good as mnk for me. I burnt myself out on leveling stuff all out of boredom so no dps feels natural while leveling up for me now I guess. The game can be so addicting sometimes... hell I have everything leveled except 2 classes... I have a lot of fun but meh on these two left. Mnk is by far the most fun dps I have played so I'm iffy about Nin being somewhat the same.
Hikami
Member
Just fyi it's better to Kassatsu -> Doton
kassatsu makes every tick of doton crit
NIN is my current main. It's pretty fun. Had started out with DRG but the botd rotation and upkeep is tedious.
Unknown Soldier
Member
They've been destroying class identity since the ARR launch. HW took the homogenization to the next level though.
The best way to balance classes is make them all play the same so I guess that's why Squenix is doing what they are doing.
Stone Ocean
Member
Class identity died with 3.0, the differences between jobs these days only serve to split them into tiers even further. All jobs are raid viable but why bring casters when supports deal pretty much the same damage and bring more utility? Why play WHM if AST does the same job while giving out an extra trick attack? Why play MNK when unless the fight has zero downtime you are nothing but a hindrance?
Isn't making all classes viable not necessarily a bad thing for people who don't want to multi-class?
It means the one job you pick at the start and stick with will always be viable and you won't find yourself in a "oops, to be viable in this raid you need to start a new job and spend 50 hours leveling it because your job sucks for this part and nobody wants you in their team" situation. Like I've been leveling all my crafters/gathers but I have very little interest at this point in even doing a second battle job to 50 or 60. Just feels like a grind and more of something to do if you're caught up on content and bored and want something new to do in the game rather than spending your time in other games at that point.
It means the one job you pick at the start and stick with will always be viable and you won't find yourself in a "oops, to be viable in this raid you need to start a new job and spend 50 hours leveling it because your job sucks for this part and nobody wants you in their team" situation. Like I've been leveling all my crafters/gathers but I have very little interest at this point in even doing a second battle job to 50 or 60. Just feels like a grind and more of something to do if you're caught up on content and bored and want something new to do in the game rather than spending your time in other games at that point.
Stone Ocean
Member
No but if in making all jobs viable you make them too samey then thats just shit design and you end up with stuff like every DPS having to juggle timers and bloody Minuet.
Also a job being viable doesn't mean its gonna be wanted. PLD, MNK, WHM and the casters are all perfectly viable but you'll only find a group if they're really, really desperate.
Also a job being viable doesn't mean its gonna be wanted. PLD, MNK, WHM and the casters are all perfectly viable but you'll only find a group if they're really, really desperate.
Ah, got it. I haven't started HW yet (just at the very end of 2.5 MSQ now) and haven't played any other DPS class besides NIN so I don't have a frame of reference.
Not a single one of the melee timers plays the same so eh. They may all be caring about a buff timer but each is managed differently. I mean, "do your rotation, make sure to refresh / not drop buff" is what they boil down to but at least the theorycrafting going into how to optimize rotations for each is fairly varied.
"Viable but unwanted" has basically always been a thing in the game (WAR post-change before people learned, DRG for all of ARR, SMN for everything not T7). There's 8 slots and more than 8 options, it will always be a case of something is "best" unless everything is homogenized to the points of providing all the same utility with any (non-repeat job) composition.
Also, this late in the tier, and with Creator being what it is, forcing "optimal only ever!" isn't really a thing outside of speedrun pushes. Good anything still stands out. I mean hell, we did PLD, WHM (AST-less for a bit, at that), MNK, and SMN this whole tier and are now going back to do optimizing stuff for the hell of it. It's not a tier that's going to care about optimal anything; all you'll need are people that are at least competent at what they're doing. Optimal is to push down kill times, not to clear.
"Viable but unwanted" has basically always been a thing in the game (WAR post-change before people learned, DRG for all of ARR, SMN for everything not T7). There's 8 slots and more than 8 options, it will always be a case of something is "best" unless everything is homogenized to the points of providing all the same utility with any (non-repeat job) composition.
Also, this late in the tier, and with Creator being what it is, forcing "optimal only ever!" isn't really a thing outside of speedrun pushes. Good anything still stands out. I mean hell, we did PLD, WHM (AST-less for a bit, at that), MNK, and SMN this whole tier and are now going back to do optimizing stuff for the hell of it. It's not a tier that's going to care about optimal anything; all you'll need are people that are at least competent at what they're doing. Optimal is to push down kill times, not to clear.
Stone Ocean
Member
I don't mean in the sense of timers playing the same but making jobs work similarly within a fight's design. Fights with less downtime used to benefit certain jobs more than others and vice versa, now its more of a "how annoying is it to play MNK here" deal. Same for casters, needed AoE? Take a BLM, needed single target damage? Take a SMN, but besides both jobs basically trading niches caster specific mechanics are just done by healers now so there's little reason to play those jobs.
Nowadays you only really see this with main tanks and even then PLD has been completely forgotten.
I think there's a pretty sizable delta between how people feel about class popularity and how it actually plays out in-game picking through FFLogs (which in theory is the community at its most DPS-obsessed.) Like, in terms of A11S clears, there are 600 more DRKs ranked than PLD, which is a notable gap (PLDs going DRK for 12 is a thing), but Bard has a 600ish lead over MCH and MCH certainly isn't underpowered. There are more WHMs than ASTs and more MNK than MCH. SMN comes in 140ish parses behind MCH, etc.
The community is hugely focused on Optimal Meta, but in terms of what people are actually doing there doesn't seem to be any job currently in full exile.
The community is hugely focused on Optimal Meta, but in terms of what people are actually doing there doesn't seem to be any job currently in full exile.
Stone Ocean
Member
Anecdotal but the BLM in my old static who is the type of guy that looks into trends and high level players was recently complaining about how the number of BLM players have taken a nosedive with them switching over to BRD/MCH.
There are still more BLMs with an A11S clear uploaded than MCH. People wanting to switch to FotM has always been a thing, and this tier not even trying to make casters a thing is going to lead to role swaps (especially as people leave prog and initial farm behind and have nothing left to do but try to minmax) but there's not really any outlier jobs like there were in Gordias.
Except WAR which is the most overrepresented ever and SAM will hopefully come along and knock down to size.
Monk isn't shunned because of any fight design thing, they actually excel in this regard for parts of this tier if we're going that route. BLM was always strictly better than SMN outside of mobility until HW changes too; casters out of favor is a similar uptime and synergy matter. What we do have is everything can work so take what is the best because not forced to otherwise. Ironically perhaps, most of this being a problem is down to it being so hard to switch jobs on one char so no fight benefits a job to any extreme and you just throw best output at the fights instead.
For what it's worth, enforced magic damage things ala T11, A7 are things I personally think are pretty awful design. But I'm also for flavor trumping all when it comes to one job over another as opposed to forced to need specific jobs.
To be fair, PLD edges DRK out for a few fights mitigation wise and short duration bursts ... it just doesn't matter as DRK does everything else better. And then there's just WAR for the OT slot as everyone else suffers when OTing.
Ultimately, everything works it's just some have better synergy or don't lose anything when used.
Stone Ocean
Member
Tbh I also think enforced magic damage is shit design but without that you just fuck over casters so maybe they just need reworks, I dunno.
I'd like to see them branch out with playstyles more than what they bring to the table. Relative to WoW's current classes most of the FFXIV melee classes seem same-y, and WoW has a bunch of talent specs as well.
I think they way they handled BLM's MP regen rotation esd really unique, but for the melee classes its like:
1) 1-3 positionals
2) 1-2 DOTs
3) 1-2 buff to maintain
4) 1-2 Combos
5) Internal Release/BfB + however many cooldowns to pop at regular intervals
And maybe this is a side effect of the class/job dichotomy? Like all the real flavor is in the job whereas the classes are cut from the same cloth, and there's only so many skills that job levels give you.
I think they way they handled BLM's MP regen rotation esd really unique, but for the melee classes its like:
1) 1-3 positionals
2) 1-2 DOTs
3) 1-2 buff to maintain
4) 1-2 Combos
5) Internal Release/BfB + however many cooldowns to pop at regular intervals
And maybe this is a side effect of the class/job dichotomy? Like all the real flavor is in the job whereas the classes are cut from the same cloth, and there's only so many skills that job levels give you.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Does this work on other fights?
I think it would be cool if the next job (if tank) didn't even have combos, kind of like Bard.
Red Mage seems to be doing something different. What with the switch between melee and casting at range.
I think it would be cool if the next job (if tank) didn't even have combos, kind of like Bard.
Red Mage seems to be doing something different. What with the switch between melee and casting at range.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Putting out the call again to find 2 dps from the primal data center who want to raid. Our groups times are Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday from 9:00-11:00pm eastern. We beat A9S and A10S back in October before taking a break; we'll be starting up again on Sun Feb. 19th. We will be starting A11S from scratch so bonus points if you already have A9S and A10S clears, if not we will walk you through them. We can basically take any 2 dps classes that aren't BLM so if you are chill and can bring the deeps sign up! Either PM me on here or contact Tomo Takino on Ultros in game.
I have a question about the Coil raids... I never did them(I was playing then, but not hardcore enough to do any raiding). However now I'm getting some of the turns in my Wondrous Tails log and I'd like to know how to actually access all the turns whenever I need them. In my duty finder it looks like I have Turn 1-5 unlocked for some reason, but nothing after that.
My question is, how do I unlock all the other turns at this point? Guides online say they are done by quests Urianger gives but when I go to him in the Waking Sands he doesn't have any quests for me.
My question is, how do I unlock all the other turns at this point? Guides online say they are done by quests Urianger gives but when I go to him in the Waking Sands he doesn't have any quests for me.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
You have to beat 1-5.
Stone Ocean
Member
You need to beat the last turn in a Coil to continue the story and unlock the next one
Not to that extent for the most part, since part of the kill time is the level of DPS they can bring in preventing anything not cast by the boss from kicking in, but spin2win is a pretty consistent boss AI exploit. The boss wants to hit the tank, realizes it needs to turn to hit them, and winds up stuck in the turn move forever and never moves forward in its script.
Happened this tier in A10S and A12S. The comments list other floors vulnerable to it too..
Similar exploits could be done by having a pet aggro the boss, then moving the pet out of bounds so the boss gets stuck in trying to hit it forever and never switches aggro because it's stuck trying to finish the attack on the pet. Those I think got people banned.
I see! That makes sense. So to clarify, do I need to clear every single Turn, 1-5, to unlock 6? OR since I already have 1-5 unlocked do I only need to beat Turn 5 to unlock 6?
Stone Ocean
Member
Just the final boss of each tier is enough. So do T5 and T9
The Last Wizard
Member
Will we be getting new hairstyles soon or has there been any since 3.3?
Stone Ocean
Member
We got like 6 more hairstyles since 3.3. Dunno if we'll get more in 3.55 but fucking shite Square where is my goddamn Sice hairdo
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Huh? I can't believe SE doesn't fix this kind of thing.
The Last Wizard
Member
Stone Ocean
Member
Aether step got nerfed, Umbrite step getting nerfed next patch
The Last Wizard
Member
Stone Ocean
Member
That was already nerfed to oblivion, doesn't get easier than it already is
The Last Wizard
Member
How so?
I remember needing the items but the way to get them is through diadem and I don't have gatherers that high.
Stone Ocean
Member
You just buy the complete items with Company Seals now, 80000 seals for all the 16 items
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
I've honestly never seen someone spin tank exploit before. Is there any evidence people got banned for doing it in savage? All I see is people on reddit saying SE "might take away your clear" if you do it.
No, the only thing I mentioned banning in conjunction with is the out-of-bounds exploit that uses the same hitch in boss AI (getting 'stuck' trying to finish a specific move that can't be completed.) Spin2win in current content is more novelty than anything, as using it like the T9 video isn't really possible at current levels/gear, and over the X minutes you're running laps if you mess up you potentially unleash cleaves on your full party. The A8S part people spun literally accomplished nothing since all you can do is freeze progress of the fight in an intermission until you stop spinning. They patched A10S to remove the spin exploit, but for the most part it's just a funny thing to do that people will eventually try in every fight because why not.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Ah I see now, thanks. It is great that they are patching these things. Never seen spin2win done before though and people say it has been in the game a long time which is shocking.
Hey everyone, I'm still pre-Heavensward and have been almost primarily sticking to SCH--my first love (as I like healing and am still waiting for AST).
Recently, I've been playing some NIN on the side and really enjoying it. I like the atmosphere and the mechanics seem fun though I'm still at 33.
I feel like SCH has a pretty high skill ceiling when you really start pushing DPS, but is "fairly" easy to pilot in terms of raw healing (at level 38). My question is, does NIN reward technical play? Is there room to really get "good" at the class and shine, or is it just a fairly simple class with a lower skill ceiling? Right now, I'm usually 3rd on DPS in a Light Party--usually ahead of the healer and behind BLM. I think I want to spend a bit more time with NIN, but am NOT looking forward to leveling up LNC/DRG for B4B. : /
Recently, I've been playing some NIN on the side and really enjoying it. I like the atmosphere and the mechanics seem fun though I'm still at 33.
I feel like SCH has a pretty high skill ceiling when you really start pushing DPS, but is "fairly" easy to pilot in terms of raw healing (at level 38). My question is, does NIN reward technical play? Is there room to really get "good" at the class and shine, or is it just a fairly simple class with a lower skill ceiling? Right now, I'm usually 3rd on DPS in a Light Party--usually ahead of the healer and behind BLM. I think I want to spend a bit more time with NIN, but am NOT looking forward to leveling up LNC/DRG for B4B. : /
That's weird. Did you go to the waking sands?
I just figured that out after I made the post. I thought the quests were retired to make unlocking it simpler or something. But yeah I found the quest for the next Coil.
It depends a lot on what you mean with "technical play" here. Ninja will not really be about moment-to-moment decisions or anything when it comes to their rotation; none of the melee DPS will really satisfy that if you're after a reactive style. At it's core, they'll do the same gameplay loop you're used to during the leveling process (soon, anyway, since you're still just 33): Keep Huton up, keep Shadow Fang + Mutilate up, use Ninjutsu and other oGCDs on cooldown. Ninja's get to deal with Ninjutsu instead of having their primary DPS buff (Huton) being a hassle to keep up; least strict refresh but requires manual involvement, one of the most active jobs in terms of buttons pushed per minute.
So I guess what I'm getting at is you'll find most the core basics of them to be pretty simple yet there's a massive gap between "bad" "average" and "good" players. It'll be less about adapting moment-to-moment but more just being good at using everything you have whenever you can or, at least, as soon as it's optimal (e.g., waiting to B4B 1 GCD if it means getting to Shadow Fang twice with it up). So you can read through this guide and see if some of the rotation/priorities and optimization talk fits what you want for technical play.
Interesting. I had never thought of it that way, but yes, the "moment-to-moment" decisions might be why I've managed to stick to SCH for so long as opposed to other / DPS classes. Maybe NIN / ROG has stuck with me because I like the atmosphere behind the class more than the others. I've also heard that they offer a lot of utility, but I have yet to see it outside of the occasional Goad.
Hmm, if that's the case, then maybe I should just stick to healing, dabble in SUM, or try tanking. The latter doesn't seem that interesting, though I'd like to experiment with Dark Knight at some point.
Thank you for the reply.
Hmm, if that's the case, then maybe I should just stick to healing, dabble in SUM, or try tanking. The latter doesn't seem that interesting, though I'd like to experiment with Dark Knight at some point.
Thank you for the reply.
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