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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.

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Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Yeah, I'm still on the second step of the relic (have most items for the other steps, even some Umbrite), so the new step means nothing to me yet, but I hope they lower the difficulty of the previous ones.

Gathering/crafting stuff I have no interest in.

Proto-ultima only it is!
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
So, I a few months before Heavensward, and came back shortly after 3.3.


What should I expect the next few months? Is 3.55 the last update before Stormblood? Is this going to be the last story content update? Will there be a 3.6?
 

Omni

Member
When do you guys think they'll remove the weekly lockout in Savage?

I'm about ready to stop raiding for a while, I think. Geared everything I need to gear. We mostly just do speedruns and stuff at the moment but eh. It burns you out after a while. Joining clear parties and helping people is fun but yanno. Three hours non-stop every reset going through 9-12s just because is zzzzz
 

Apoptomon

Member
So, I a few months before Heavensward, and came back shortly after 3.3.


What should I expect the next few months? Is 3.55 the last update before Stormblood? Is this going to be the last story content update? Will there be a 3.6?

The next patch is 3.55b in mid-March, which will bring the re-worked Diadem. The last part of the 3.x MSQ will be later on (April/May?) in Patch 3.56, which will introduce the Othard/Doma side of Stormblood.
 

iammeiam

Member
When do you guys think they'll remove the weekly lockout in Savage?

I'm about ready to stop raiding for a while, I think. Geared everything I need to gear. We mostly just do speedruns and stuff at the moment but eh. It burns you out after a while. Joining clear parties and helping people is fun but yanno. Three hours non-stop every reset going through 9-12s just because is zzzzz

Speculation is as soon as tonight, but could be a month or so out if they want to give people a chance to clear with i275 relics prior to removing lockout. If we go off ARR patch numbers, they'd remove it now, but Zeta relics in ARR hit before the lockout was removed.

We're still in the 'optimization' attempts/hilarious alt job fiasco run mode since we spent like three months raid logging and only recently started doing more than just resets again, but are planning to halt whenever echo hits.

Until then it's the joys of messing around with dedicated pad runs and seeing how truly and deeply broken AST is (we ran double AST in 10 to pad our monk on Friday and he is now world 6th monk for the floor because Balance is dumb as hell.) I'd like a month or two so we can cycle through trying to pad everyone and going for better kill times than our current 'eh whatever happens happens' approach, but I know most other groups are done with that part.
 

scy

Member
Speedruns / learning how to play are the fun parts; with the tier what it is, it's the safest time to try to push the limits (of your greed) and pad like you've never padded before. Even if it means mostly being salty at finding 800-1k+ DPS in adds AoE to get those last few percentile points.

Basically, I hope next raid tier has less adds to pad with :|

Maybe they did make this raid too easy, haha.
Half joking here. Clearly everyone there had a fair bit of experience

I came back for this tier and it's definitely on the easiest side. Both in terms of tuning, which is sort of understandable though I think they set the bar too low, but mostly in terms of how much the fights want us to respect them. Almost all the fights have sections skipped from them outright or mechanics that can be ignored for the sake of damage. A10S runs of greeding knockbacks to save movement, ignoring A11S Opticals because it's not worth the loss of uptime, basically everything in A9S, etc. A lot of the fights can boil down to "how much of this matters to me? Matters at all?" vs needing to know the fight. A12S may be the best example of it as you can make so much of it static that some people never learn the mechanics, just "this set, I go here!"

I'm one of the ones who loved A3S but that's not my point here. Just that there's a healthy spot between Creator and Gordias while still keeping the kind of fun atmosphere for more people; have the fights matter a bit more so players need to learn things for completing them. But I'm also more on the side of raids are for the encounters and not the gear and Creator seems more designed for the latter; designed with the intent of people to get in and get out with their stuff.

If nothing else, hopefully next expansion set of raids can adjust upwards in difficulty from tier to tier a bit; or, well, a third difficulty would be appreciated, even if just one or two fights to spam.
And give it Soar
 
Agreed with you, @Scy. I haven't cleared a12s because of the frustrations I noted in an earlier post but having done a8s to phase 4-5 the other week I can say that Midas savage was most definitely the best tier difficulty and that's a6s and a8s, imo. A6S punished you if you wiped and had punishing mechanics. It was fun but a8s is pure chaos unlike a12s which like I said is just going to designated positions and dodging the occasional mechanic. Inception 2 is like the only scary part. Gordias.... well that was just a gear check and too punishing, imo.
 

iammeiam

Member
"we'll tell you what items we added later"

"we'll tell you what recipes we added later"

"we'll tell you what achievements we added later"


datamining when; I want tanks salty over yet more parry 270 accessories

ALSO ALL UMBRITE ON CLEARANCE: HALF OFF!
 

Squishy3

Member
Creator was definitely designed to get people more into the raiding scene for Stormblood and with Stormblood having access to raid finder and cross-server party finder off the bat the raiding scene should hopefully be a lot healthier (even for creator you really didn't see new statics forming more so people trying to fill spaces because of people having to leave due to work etc.) and at the start of an entirely new raid in a new expansion you should see way more statics recruiting/starting from scratch or even just PUG learning groups pop up. Creator even saw this with there constantly being A9S and A10S learning/clear parties (with it falling off at A11 for obvious reasons, as it's a significant jump in difficulty)

I think the thing I'd appreciate most is if the normal raid is a little harder than it is. Maybe more back to Gordias normal levels, when the only fights people really had to cut their teeth on in the beginning to master 3.0 rotations in Heavensward content were Bismarck EX and Ravana EX before Gordias came out and most people weren't really going into Gordias 10 item levels above what was the minimum, while Midas and Creator came out well after the 24 mans dropped weekly upgrade items.

Ideally I'd hope it would be a better curve between the level 70 dungeons, normal trials, normal raid, extreme trials to savage raids. I even like where we went with the level 60 dungeons in the last 2 patches with Xelphatol and Gubal HM having a nice mix of tankbuster and personal responsibility, with Baelsar's Wall and Sohm Al Hard having a nice mix of personal responsibility with high damage.

I think Dun Scaith is in a really good place difficulty wise as well with the final boss having the high spike damage on the tank at the very start. The mini boss fight right before you fight Scathach is really good too.
 

MogCakes

Member
I think if the community makes a big enough fuss over it, SE will be forced to address it or risk tarnishing their image with the player base. Hopefully word gets up the chain.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The number of Allagan tomestones of esoterics or Allagan tomestones of lore required to exchange for umbrite has been reduced from 300 to 150.

sick.gif


The following items can now be exchanged for crystal sand:

Item Required
Unidentifiable Bone x 1
Unidentifiable Shell x 1
Unidentifiable Ore x 1
Unidentifiable Seeds x 1

Item Obtained
Crystal Sand x 1
sick.gif
 

Omni

Member
That's disappointing. I mean I'm not doing another relic after finishing my DRK one, buuuut I expected a little more.

Farming leves is not fun for anyone
 

SkyOdin

Member
I know I'm still fairly early into the story compared to the amount of story available right now, but there's this recurring theme that I've noticed from the start of the game that has been really heavy throughout the main storyline and it really surprised me.

FFXIV is a fantasy game about colonization. It's not something that is merely in the background but forms the foundation of the entire political structure in the world. It's also extremely dark and does not shy away from the negative aspects of colonial rule and the displacement of indigenous people.

Spoilers through to the Titan Trial:
*snipped*
You bring up a lot of great points about what is so great about this game's story. The themes of colonialism and discrimination run deep through every facet of the storytelling, and it presents a lot of issues in a very morally complex way where the main hero is quite often stuck doing something repugnant while acting on behalf of the "greater good." But I wanted to bring up some of the details you mentioned and highlight some of the intricacies you may be skipping over, which make this messy situation even more intricate.

You see, Gridania is the one city state that really suffered a lot in the transition from 1.0 to 2.0. Ul'dah and Limsa still have most of their stories intact, and as such have a lot of characters and focus in the current game's main story, particularly regarding their internal conflicts. But Gridania's central internal conflict was mostly written out of the game thanks to the Calamity, making its story lose a little of its bite and make less sense. This is a shame, too, since I think it is really the most interesting of the city states.

You see, when Gridanians talk about the "will of the elementals", as they do to justify their refusal to accept many Ala Mhigan refugees, they are not talking about some abstract force or a desire for harmony and peace for peace's sake. They are talking about an immediate threat to their society's very existence. Gridanians cannot defy the elementals, even if they wanted to.

You see, the Gridanians do not rule the forest. The trees rule the forest. The elementals exist as being of pure aether, but they are as real as people, and act purely in their own self-interest. For thousands of years, they simply killed anyone, man or beast-man, who even tried to live in the forest. It is only thanks to the Hearers, who negotiate with the elementals on mankind's behalf, that the elementals permit people to live in the forest. To emphasize, people live there because the trees give them permission to do so, and ever since Gridania was founded there has been a genuine risk that the elementals would revoke that permission. This is why Gridania does not have a government, and instead has a group of people who convey the will of the elementals who serve in place of a government.

The people of Gridania, regardless of race, are second-class citizens living in enclaves within a potentially quite hostile state. The areas they are allowed to live in are particularly designated, and even native Gridanians are highly restricted in what they are allowed to do within the forest. Gridanians who break these rules risk the Greenwrath, the anger of the elementals, and enraged elementals kill people, often indiscriminately. In 1.0, the hero even has to fight against an elemental that enrages and tries to kill a rebellious child and everyone around him. Later events feature cases where, in response to Garlean forces invading the forest and damaging the trees, the elementals start killing every person they can, both Gridanian and Garlean alike. In other words, the elementals enforce the rules they place upon the people of the forest with acts of indiscriminate collective punishment. The average Gridanian has to live with the knowledge that they might be killed if someone else hurts the forest. Gridania can be compared to, of all things, an apartheid state where people live subordinate to alien and inscrutable beings. I'm a little uncomfortable using that analogy, but it I struggle to think of any alternative words for the situation.

A Realm Reborn walks back many of these elements, particularly in how it defangs the elementals and heavily de-emphasizes the threat of their displeasure, but it is still there to some extent, particularly in the White Mage questline. Moreover, the effect of living in this society is still heavily reflected in the mindset and culture of the Grdianians, from their clothes (all the masks exist to disguise them from the elementals) to how they treat other people and races. The emphasis on the inborn talents of the Padjal and the Hearers has created a caste-like society. Fear of outsiders invoking the Greenwrath has led to general xenophobia and isolationism, and has resulted in oppression of the nomadic Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te. And the cruelty inflicted upon the people of Gridania is reflected by their cruelty towards beastmen. And this leads to a quest where you are asked to go kill the first three Qiqirn you see as an act of collective punishment for the crime of breaking some chocobo eggs.

Gridania is as interesting as it is messed up and toxic. Its easily as twisted as Ul'dah or Ishgard, but sadly the story doesn't really focus on it anywhere near enough, and might not anytime soon.

Anyways, sorry for the random tangent. Your post just got me thinking a bit about how much I love this game's story.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I heard Ul'dah's stories got botched in transition from 1.0 to ARR though, with lots of rougher edges sharpened off for the sake of some weird family friendliness. PGL guild was named as the main perpetrator in particular. I've been meaning to look into it but constant localization rewrites made me give much less of damn about finer details of this game's story as of late so correct me if I'm wrong.
 

SkyOdin

Member
I heard Ul'dah's stories got botched in transition from 1.0 to ARR though, with lots of rougher edges sharpened off for the sake of some weird family friendliness. PGL guild was named as the main perpetrator in particular. I've been meaning to look into it but constant localization rewrites made me give much less of damn about finer details of this game's story as of late so correct me if I'm wrong.

The main difference for the Pugilist guild going from 1.0 to 2.0 is that they switched it to mostly focusing on being a combat training school for gladiators instead of its original role: the debt collector thugs of the Platinum Mirage casino. In 2.0, a pugilist in the guild still gives you an early game quest to shake down a Lalafell for his gambling debts, though. Similarly, the Miner's guild was supposedly more of a dance hall/brothel that the Miners frequented. It still is mostly that, but they moved the Miqo'te dancers out onto the main street. Not having played 1.0 myself, I don't really know many of the subtle changes from 1.0 to 2.0.

From watching the 1.0 cutscenes and stuff on youtube, the original 1.0 city-state plots were pretty cool, if blatantly unfinished. The Ul'dah one focused on a band of the young elites of Ul'dahn society who had a plan to make themselves into heroes by intentionally letting a monster free during a parade so they could subdue it, only for the plan to go horribly wrong,
they killed Minfillia's father by accident
.

Duckroll gave credit for the writing of FFXIV to Yoshi P. and his Matsuno influence, but a lot of the excellent lore and world-building of FFXIV was laid in 1.0 by Tanaka and his original team. Their experience crafting the world of FFXI gave them a ton of experience in creating a deep world with a nuanced story. It's a shame that the actual game part of 1.0 turned out so terribly, since what little of the story we see is amazing.
 

duckroll

Member
Damn, that's a lot of deep lore. I never played 1.0 so my observations are based no what the game tells me. I'm not so much concerned about what changed from 1.0 in terms of style, so much as what's still referenced in ARR. It does sound like they carried over the spirit of the original world in the important ways though. I'm curious about the actual "story" in 1.0 though. How much of it was there before the new staff took over, and was there ever any mention of where they intended to go if ARR didn't happen? Not that it really matters now, but like, as someone who only played the beta of 1.0 way back, it always seemed to me that in spite of all the experience Tanaka and his staff had from FFXI, somehow they fundamentally failed to make a game in FFXIV. The lore stuff is cool and all, but there seemed to be almost zero actual content to make people want to keep playing in the world. Everything was so... diversified in terms of wanting people to pick a class and just do shit in that class. Pick up leve quests or whatever to kill random shit for NPCs. It was so weird. There was just nothing there to hook me into playing it as a JRPG. It was almost like they wanted to make a MMO catering to people heavily into role play itself. Did this change later after launch?
 

MogCakes

Member
IIRC 1.0's problem was that it was unfinished wholesale and massive parts of the maps were copy-pasted, the Black Shroud being the biggest offender from memory.

That emote is stupidly expensive.
 

duckroll

Member
Let's say one day I'm drunk and feel like parting with my money for no good reason at all. What are the best things to buy on the cash shop?
 
No point in /backflip because I main DRG and our victory emote is just that. But /playdead? Oh maaaaan...

I mean... if all of idyllshire did this all at once it would actually be pretty hilarious

This needs to happen or I'll have lost faith in the player base.
 
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