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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.

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Edzi

Member
Finally got my first class to level 60, and it's before I've even made it to Heavensward content. Staying consistent with my dailies was enough to take care of it for me, but now I'm wondering if I should level another class to 50 as to not waste the exp in Heavensward.

Oh, and I'm about to tackle potd floors 91-100, after which I'll be cashing in my aetherpool weapon for my newly leveled up Warrior.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Finally got my first class to level 60, and it's before I've even made it to Heavensward content. Staying consistent with my dailies was enough to take care of it for me, but now I'm wondering if I should level another class to 50 as to not waste the exp in Heavensward.

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Do heavensward bro! You'll need it for SB anyway.

Level AST/MCH/DRK so you can start at 30 or something.
 

Edzi

Member
?????????????????????????????????????????

Do heavensward bro! You'll need it for SB anyway.

Level AST/MCH/DRK so you can start at 30 or something.

Is it not common to hit 60 before heavensward? There's just so much patch content and dailies were super generous with exp, so I figured it was normal.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Is it not common to hit 60 before heavensward? There's just so much patch content and dailies were super generous with exp, so I figured it was normal.

Were you doing just main story quests or were you still doing your daily roulettes and all that too? I started an alt and I'm currently at level 52 on patch 2.3 I think.
 

Edzi

Member
Were you doing just main story quests or were you still doing your daily roulettes and all that too? I started an alt and I'm currently at level 52 on patch 2.3 I think.

I've been trying to keep up with daily roulettes even on days where I didn't do any story missions. I think I'm right before the Shiva quest atm.
 
Unless there's another job in particular you're dying to level, I wouldn't really bother just for the MSQ exp. There's much better sources.

And yeah, I also got to 60 before I stepped foot into Ishgard. Doing PotD and making sure I did my roulettes helped a lot.
 

dabig2

Member
I've been trying to keep up with daily roulettes even on days where I didn't do any story missions. I think I'm right before the Shiva quest atm.

Unless there's another job in particular you're dying to level, I wouldn't really bother just for the MSQ exp. There's much better sources.

And yeah, I also got to 60 before I stepped foot into Ishgard. Doing PotD and making sure I did my roulettes helped a lot.

Damn, ya'll crazy. I thought I was doing the grind. Then again, up until about 2 weeks ago, I completely ignored daily roulettes and I still haven't done a POTD run. Leveling to 60 on just dailies sounds crazy, but they do give great EXP. It just sounds like it'll take a minute.

I'd suggest unlocking HW content on a different class so you can get the most out of the EXP bonus they give and the trials/dungeons you will unlock. You can easily level a different class to 60 in a short time just doing the MSQ and completing the dungeons/trials first time. It would be a waste to do it on your already leveled job.
 

xxczx

Member
Got my FC to queue for Secure Frontlines yesterday to take a pic, managed to get a picture from all the messing around that was going on

AzQsTIO.jpg
 

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
The only GLD skill you really need to worry about for the most part is Provoke, at level 22. Awareness is situationally useful for WAR--it's nice to pair up with Raw Intuition, but you won't get that until WAR level 56 so it's a ways off. There are some mobs that autocrit attacks at endgame, and on large pulls not getting crit is a nice enough bonus but it's not really going to replace a real cool down. Given that they're blowing up the cross class system in two and a half months anyway it's maybe not worth it to stress about if you're not rushing into endgame stuff. Even Provoke you don't have to have before you hit 8-man content on WAR, but it's definitely nice to have and if you do get into 8 man stuff and the MT dies and you don't have it, people'll be mad.

Like, if you're enjoying leveling GLD might as well ride it out to 34, but if it's not fun you can probably walk away after getting Provoke and not really suffer for it given that the cross-class system's days are numbered.

thanks! what's replacing cross class stuff in 4.0?

also, best tips for leveling? daily dungeon duties + hunting logs + random fates?
 

Redhood

Member
Hello, How much time or content is there in Post Main quest in Heavensward. I see only 44 quests. Do they take a lot of time?

I have only 4 days of subscription left and am not interested in re subscription until Stomrblood.
 
Hello, How much time or content is there in Post Main quest in Heavensward. I see only 44 quests. Do they take a lot of time?

I have only 4 days of subscription left and am not interested in re subscription until Stomrblood.

Not as much as there was for post-ARR, but still quite a bit.

At the very least, make sure you play up until the Final Steps of Faith, as it's the proper conclusion to the HW story. Everything after that is just filler and SB lead-up.
 

ebil

Member
thanks! what's replacing cross class stuff in 4.0?

also, best tips for leveling? daily dungeon duties + hunting logs + random fates?
Cross-class is becoming cross-role. You won't have to level GLA to get Provoke, every tank will be able to pick Provoke in the cross-role skill pool.
 

Redhood

Member
Just finished the main quest of heavensward. That was so good. The final fight was amazing with crazy aoe's. the story is really good. It's a shame many will not play it cause MMO.

Now onwards to raids and dragonsong war.
 
It hardly matters when you have a tanking stance and a DPS stance

I should have been more clear. I'm talking in the context of tanking and trying to do max damage possible, which means you want to use your tank stance as little as possible. Aggro combo being your best combo means WAR for example basically never has to enter Defiance again because Butcher's Block combo will keep you ahead because of the enmity modifier even in Deliverance. Where as Dark Knight and Paladin (to a lesser extent I suppose because of Savage Blade I suppose) will eventually have to go back into their tank stance to build enmity lead again (this is assuming your DPS are good).

The reason I brought up the question is because I have been running into Power Slash spamming Dark Knights and Warrior's who use BB and don't watch threat so if I'm playing Dark Knight and have built up an enmity lead I'll eventually have to turn on Grit to build an enmity lead again.

If I'm playing Warrior then it doesn't matter what the other tank does because they can't catch up since I'm frequently using my aggro combo since it does the most damage (after putting up slashing obviously) (even if it's another Warrior).

I don't think FFXIV has a coherent enough approach to tanking for there to be a good answer to this. The WAR approach seems fairly sound--enmity and max DPS come from the same combo, but Eye and Path exist and have reasons to be used so it's not like you can just Block every single combo and call it good--but also feels like it comes from an entirely different school of thought from PLD and DRK, where you're basically only using your threat combo when you absolutely have to because your threat build comes from a skill you wouldn't use otherwise.

It also depends on if they want threat struggle to be an actual long-term tank mechanic, and I'd argue if the goal is to narrow the gap between the skill floor and skill ceiling you'd want balancing damage and threat to be easier. Right now the gap for PLD and DRK is stupid because the floor is going to be people who spam low-damage enmity combos in tank stance, while the ceiling is the people riding the enmity line to minimize threat combo and treating tank stance like a slightly more annoying cool down to be put up for as short as humanly possible. You can move the two ends closer together by either justifying more tank stance usage for everyone, or slapping more damage onto the 1-2-3.

Alright then, I really just wanted to know if people thought WAR style was good or bad. I personally think it's good design so it's reassuring to see that I'm not completely off the mark.

Like I mentioned above, the reason I brought this up is because of how Warrior doesn't have problems with enmity outside of tank stance because of BB where as Dark Knight and Paladin get fucked by any Warrior doing Eye > BBxinfinity or PLD/Dark spamming their enmity combo.

I don't think it's a good idea for PLD and DRK best enmity generation being tied to lower damage skills. I would not mind at all if they made Rage of Halone and Soulstealer do most damage and enmity while making Royal Authority and Power Slash do something else.

Looking at Warrior, Royal Authority and Power Slash just seem like wastes of space that could instead do something more interesting. I don't have any particular ideas in mind for them though. I feel like Warrior handles enmity in the best way, so if they could do the same with Paladin and Dark Knight that would free up a combo to do something other than what they do now.
 
Old content, but Thordan EX downed. Now I can join the "no bonus" groups and wipe just as much as the learning parties!

I had to do 84 ThorEx clears to before I got my bird (also did them all in a span of about 4 days, I don't recommend this) and probably less than 5% of my runs had people actually doing conviction towers properly. Me and the two healers would always be the only ppl to actually try and stand in one.

I finally said eff it and started bringing spine drops.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Enmity management is dull, adopt WoW's active mitigation tanking.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I barely remember anything from WoW but whatever this is I can say for sure it's not happening.

Definitely not.

WoW gradually moved away from threat/hate/enmity while giving everyone short, defensive cooldowns. Every tank class has an "active mitigation" skill, which usually stacks to 2-3 charges and has a cooldown of 10-15 seconds, and lasts ~6 seconds. The tank is expected to regularly pop these in response to boss attacks. Basically, imagine if tankbusters came more often but at lower damage while half a tank's cooldowns were reduced to 15 seconds so they always had something up (unless they waste it). The rest of the time they build resource and expend it just like any other DPS class, but usually with a simpler rotation.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
WoW's constant damage intake makes more sense than minute-long tank tickles followed by a spiky tankbuster. Damage patterns in this game are ResidentSleeper tier.
 

Alfebit

Banned
Grinded warrior to 60 these past few days just for glamour. Last piece I wanted was the Dun Scaith chest and despite never tanking it
or any other raid/trial/anything not a dungeon over 50
before I stupidly decided to run it at 1am. Went surprisingly smooth but didn't get it or even any other tank gear. At least now I have some Dun Scaith tanking experience even if it was as OT.
 
What a difference a level makes lol

5XxQhBU.png

TEZNqf6.png


Unsure if I'm going to level BRD or MCH next.

Also, what type of Materia should I be melding as Tank? I'm assuming it goes Str > Crit > Det?
 

ebil

Member
WoW's constant damage intake makes more sense than minute-long tank tickles followed by a spiky tankbuster. Damage patterns in this game are ResidentSleeper tier.
Damage patterns in FF14 are actively pushing me out of healing, it is so one-dimensional.

I've been complaining about it all expansion. Not sure if they even see this as a problem and if they'll ever address it because most people seem content with the current model.
 
Definitely not.

WoW gradually moved away from threat/hate/enmity while giving everyone short, defensive cooldowns. Every tank class has an "active mitigation" skill, which usually stacks to 2-3 charges and has a cooldown of 10-15 seconds, and lasts ~6 seconds. The tank is expected to regularly pop these in response to boss attacks. Basically, imagine if tankbusters came more often but at lower damage while half a tank's cooldowns were reduced to 15 seconds so they always had something up (unless they waste it). The rest of the time they build resource and expend it just like any other DPS class, but usually with a simpler rotation.

I argued for shorter cooldowns with more frequent tankbusters a while ago but unfortunately they've given no indication that they'll go in that direction.

I kind of wish they did and gave bosses more moves with animation telegraphs so you can time them but that's probably not going to happen.

Damage patterns in FF14 are actively pushing me out of healing, it is so one-dimensional.

I've been complaining about it all expansion. Not sure if they even see this as a problem and if they'll ever address it because most people seem content with the current model.

He said that they're going to give some love to tanks and healers but the cynical side of me says that this is just an attempt to placate them while the actual changes will be something underwhelming when it comes to tanking and healing as a whole.
 

ebil

Member
Giving tanks and healers some love doesn't mean anything at all if they're okay with the way our toolkits interact with fight design, and so far there has been zero indication that they see this as a problem. Maybe we'll start getting more insight about it in the upcoming interviews.

To be fair, most of the playerbase doesn't seem to have a problem with it (yet?) either so it's just me and a few others having to accept the fact that the playstyle and general design they've chosen and a lot of people are enjoying just isn't for us.
 

dabig2

Member
What a difference a level makes lol

http://i.imgur.com/5XxQhBU.png[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TEZNqf6.png[IMG]

Unsure if I'm going to level BRD or MCH next.

Also, what type of Materia should I be melding as Tank? I'm assuming it goes Str > Crit > Det?[/QUOTE]

Nice. About 200K EXP from hitting 60 on my WAR myself. Should get that done sometime today. What amor set is that btw?
 

iammeiam

Member
To be fair, most of the playerbase doesn't seem to have a problem with it (yet?) either so it's just me and a few others having to accept the fact that the playstyle and general design they've chosen and a lot of people are enjoying just isn't for us.

I'm honestly not sure if it's that a lot of people really enjoy the current DPS With Occasional Heals/Occasional Defensive CDs setup, or if it's just that the arc of raiding in HW had kept people from focusing on it too much. A lot of people didn't hit farm status on anything pre-Creator, which has shifted a lot of the focus onto problems with specific encounters instead of basic class structure. Plus the AST and PLD situations drowning out the more baseline concerns.

I think their guiding principal being essentially that every comp has to be viable might be really limiting how they handle those roles in raids. I wanted SAM as an OT job so they could just formalize MT and OT as distinctly different tank slots, and then move PLD and DRK to a more active tanking style with shorter more frequent cooldowns. Make the incoming damage on the MT something a WAR and SAM couldn't survive for an entire encounter, or something.

But given that the stated goal of the next rebalance is shrinking the skill gap, and that they still need to juggle every possible tank/healer comp I'm skeptical of bug changes. Doesn't help that they don't do public tests and won't make meaningful job baseline changes mid-expansion. It'll make them more cautious, which is too bad.
 
Really strongly debating going back in - I've not played for almost a year at this point but starting to get the cravings again and the new content looks really exciting. Mainly played as a Dragoon and was grinding towards ilvl 200 gear when I fell off the game.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Their guiding principle is never challenge anybody to do anything! Unless it's raid then it's okay to be vindictive towards the playerbase for a while. They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and it's very clear by this tier which was absent of progression, all of the content was clearable with easily obtainable day 1 crafted gear, like, are you for real?
 

Vashetti

Banned
Weird request, but does anyone have a physical copy of the base PS4 game (non-Heavensward) they no longer want?

I've gotten back into collecting physical games recently and am missing XIV because I claimed the free PS3 upgrade back at launch, so only have Heavensward physically.

Happy to pay postage if you're in UK/EU.

Thanks :)
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Their guiding principle is never challenge anybody to do anything! Unless it's raid then it's okay to be vindictive towards the playerbase for a while. They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and it's very clear by this tier which was absent of progression, all of the content was clearable with easily obtainable day 1 crafted gear, like, are you for real?
Weren't the Midas clear numbers incredibly low? I'm guessing Creator was their knee-jerk reaction to that. The community reaction to Gordias seems like it threw everything out of wack.
 

iammeiam

Member
Their guiding principle is never challenge anybody to do anything! Unless it's raid then it's okay to be vindictive towards the playerbase for a while. They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and it's very clear by this tier which was absent of progression, all of the content was clearable with easily obtainable day 1 crafted gear, like, are you for real?

I know everyone is hyped for that documentary about 1.0, but honestly at this point I'm way more interested on a behind-the-scenes about what happened at the end of ARR and then throughout HW because there's a lot they did that made a ton of sense or had good intentions behind it, a lot that seemed like random guessing, and a lot that borderline feels like the threw their hands up in frustration and gave up. I am really curious about how we ended up with Verminion, or how Diadem 2.0 ended up being just FATES, or what happened to the Creator fights as they were scrambling to figure out how to make raiding accessible again (I cannot believe the A9S we got was the A9S they initially designed, and I suspect the A12S we got was a mechanically reduced version of the originally designed fight because why does Normal have Stasis+Gravi+Communion which could require more on-the-fly adjustment than like anything in Savage.)

And I'm curious about what lesssons they're actually taking from all this, because things like "we're going to make a brand new Really Hard fight for off patches instead of just adding another difficulty" seems like they're intentionally recreating problems they'd previously eliminated. The playerbase really does not like being denied access to something, and much of the game is designed to prevent it, so why the hell would they spend resources on designing a new fight that 80-90% of the playerbase will never do and complain about shutting them out? Like, why is that the answer instead of trying to iterate on the Savage SCoB model?

Maybe in a few years we can get somebody delving into that.
 

Edzi

Member
I forgot how absurd DPS queues are. Ended up trying my leveling roulette with my lvl 16 conjurer instead, and I'm finding healing to be pretty interesting. I wish I didn't have to level Conjurer, Thaumaturge, and Arcanist to get a decent Scholar with cross class skills, but at least it gives me something to work towards on the side while I knock out the MSQ.
 

Bluenoser

Member
Is it not common to hit 60 before heavensward? There's just so much patch content and dailies were super generous with exp, so I figured it was normal.

Considering HW main story quests reward upwards of 70-80k exp, that is how most people get from 50-60 quickly.

Although with some of the new content I hear it's pretty fast leveling now.

2017: Cleric Stance is a still a thing that exists.

That is all I have to say about "giving Healers some love".

As in they should scrap cleric stance and have damage be based on mind stat? If so, I agree. I hated stance dance.
 
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