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Final Fantasy XIV |OT2| ARR: Phase 4 August.
- Thread starter Jijidasu
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LowParry
Member
......?
No. But I mean c'moooon. That being early level I get but is combat that slow looking at higher levels? And people prefer that?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Some people prefered that type of gameplay because it was very similar to FFXI. That was also the only thing that felt just like FFXI.
LowParry
Member
Eeeesh. Legacy controls with XIV is fantastic. I did play beta back when XIV was first out and combat was super lame slow. The new combat is more fast paced and having a more freedom of movement is so much better instead of the locked camera aspect. I'm looking forwards the higher up instances (if I get up in level in time) with my Lancer.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
I didn't like combat in 1.0 (atrocious) or 1.23. It's slow at all levels and clunky. The addition of combos, jobs, and some of the changes they made to existing abilities and skills helped but it was a band-aid at best. FFXIV ARR is a huge improvement and I haven't seen anything but the basics so far.
I played FFXI from launch until around 2007 and FFXIV combat didn't feel anything like FFXI to me. I enjoyed the combat quite a bit in FFXI and it made grinding mobs all night long for experience points bearable. I hated FFXIV combat.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's low level combat (the same low level combat some people are evaluating ARR combat)
This high-end level combat in 1.23:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_hIFlwnyA
Is in japanese but you can easily see the difference.
LowParry
Member
That does look better but it still looks...I don't know. Slow? And the effects from everything seem so tame compared to 2.0. Eh, I can't really compare the two since I never got into FFXIV early on with 1.0 and 1.23 so I can't really judge things. Videos can say little of how things worked.
notworksafe
Member
The old combat WAS slow. Obviously this new stuff is slow as well as it is low level combat, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think it does look slow, mainly, because of the animation lock and all the animation transitions going on. In ARR you use the skill and the animation plays out inmediatly and you can even cancel it by moving. In 1.23 you had to stand idle, use the ability (wait for the lag to make you play the animation), wait for the animation to end (animation lock), then use another skill.
Also you had to raise you TP (if you were a DD) to start doing something worthwhile. But person playing is doing a lot of things actually, using several abilities between combos, positional combos, using throwing weapons to raise TP, etc...
LowParry
Member
You'll see the potential once you get into that first dungeon. It made me a believer that combat will be just fine.
InfiniDragon
Member
I didn't prefer the old combat because it was like FFXI because I never played XI outside of a few minutes on a coworker's PC. I prefer it because it's like Xenoblade's combat (which is also way the hell better than ARR's).
Xux
Member
Looks pretty much identical to ARR's. Just without all the improvements.
InfiniDragon
Member
Not at all the same.
Currently ARR has global cool down instead of individual skill cool down, you start with full TP so you can spam your strongest skill in most fights, and the combo system where one attack chains into another based on direction is gone (again because there's global cool down for all skills).
Plus ARR is back to tab target style MMO targeting where a monster can queue a skill, you can see it coming and run to China but it still hits you because "he locked onto you". 1.23 you could intelligently dodge a lot of the bigger hits like in PSO or Tera.
Currently ARR has global cool down instead of individual skill cool down, you start with full TP so you can spam your strongest skill in most fights, and the combo system where one attack chains into another based on direction is gone (again because there's global cool down for all skills).
Plus ARR is back to tab target style MMO targeting where a monster can queue a skill, you can see it coming and run to China but it still hits you because "he locked onto you". 1.23 you could intelligently dodge a lot of the bigger hits like in PSO or Tera.
AlphaDragoon
Member
I feel like I should make some things clear as so why I personally dislike the new battle system so much. I have never, EVER touched FFXI once in my life, so that comparison can get thrown out.
It's NOT that it's fast now. I like that it's fast. I like how responsive it is (even though animations suck and sliding along the ground while doing an animation looks ridiculous).
My problem is that the actual battle system itself seems to be headed down a path where you're not forced to utilize the entire toolset of your class to win fights. In 1.23, thanks to individual cooldowns (and certain moves doing actually useful things unlike what I've seen of moves in ARR) you used every single attack you had in a big fight.
In ARR, it already seems like certain attacks will become "obsolete" to a point where you never have to use them. Just use your strongest combos whenever you can. It'd be like if Monks had access to Howling Fist combos at all times and the only limitation was TP.
Honestly, it seems like all classes now play like magic classes; spam your strongest combo skills until you run out of MP if you're doing a burn, or be forced to hold yourself back to save your TP. It especially feels this way thanks to AA doing nothing to regenerate TP, only time.
I'm not trying to say everyone should hate it. I'm saying that I hate it, and most likely won't be playing. Even at low levels in FFXIV I had fun. I've never once had fun with the battles in ARR. If they wanted to go to fast paced action, I really think they should have gone all out and went for actual action. Like PSO2/Tera/Dragon's Dogma stuff.
It's NOT that it's fast now. I like that it's fast. I like how responsive it is (even though animations suck and sliding along the ground while doing an animation looks ridiculous).
My problem is that the actual battle system itself seems to be headed down a path where you're not forced to utilize the entire toolset of your class to win fights. In 1.23, thanks to individual cooldowns (and certain moves doing actually useful things unlike what I've seen of moves in ARR) you used every single attack you had in a big fight.
In ARR, it already seems like certain attacks will become "obsolete" to a point where you never have to use them. Just use your strongest combos whenever you can. It'd be like if Monks had access to Howling Fist combos at all times and the only limitation was TP.
Honestly, it seems like all classes now play like magic classes; spam your strongest combo skills until you run out of MP if you're doing a burn, or be forced to hold yourself back to save your TP. It especially feels this way thanks to AA doing nothing to regenerate TP, only time.
I'm not trying to say everyone should hate it. I'm saying that I hate it, and most likely won't be playing. Even at low levels in FFXIV I had fun. I've never once had fun with the battles in ARR. If they wanted to go to fast paced action, I really think they should have gone all out and went for actual action. Like PSO2/Tera/Dragon's Dogma stuff.
Huh? Is this true?
pretty much, most abilities have a cooldown on par with the global cooldown. Some more powerful ones are longer.
The combo system so far consists of using skill 2 after skill 1 gives some type of bonus to skill 2.
Xux
Member
I like the GCD and TP systems of doing stuff instead of waiting. The direction based stuff was kinda boring since it was literally just separating it into solo and party combos with a lag prone restriction. Glad they toned that down and made them more flexible.
There's a couple. It doesn't seem like they just shoved it on as many WSes as they could.
The directional stuff during 1.0 was sorta neat, if only because I was able to solo dodos above my level at the game's laggy launch, even with a gimped conjurer since they liked to spam their easily dodged TP moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YesgkZ4cZb0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YesgkZ4cZb0
thanks alot for the info! i played a bit for ffXI but ffXIV never interested me until now. i am sure that the game will show its depth in combat down the line, have we seen or heard what there doing about raids? i am sure that is going to require some sort of tactical thinking in terms of combat.
It was for me. Didn't hurt that the direction of the battle in general was so epic, though.
Xux
Member
It's that grid that shows you all of your Armor Sets so you can easily move equipment between them.
Okay, I guess they didn't say "sharing":
The directional stuff is still there. The lower level combos just dont use it. Yoshi already showed a skill that works from behind in conjunction with stunning an enemy with a shield bash technique. Not to mention all the limit break stuff and other team attacks. I still say to wait until we have full access to the battle system to judge it.
I'm sure they've got alot in the works, especially after pulling off the latter half of 1.0 with what they had to work with.
EDIT: I got a charge out of the constant running for cover with Garuda and Coincounter cyclops. Ifrit was a little too by the numbers once you get it down.
I'm sure they've got alot in the works, especially after pulling off the latter half of 1.0 with what they had to work with.
EDIT: I got a charge out of the constant running for cover with Garuda and Coincounter cyclops. Ifrit was a little too by the numbers once you get it down.
Looking at that skill list that leaked earlier, there are also combos you execute from the side. What changed is that only the combo starter requires any kind of positioning now.
Which isn't a bad thing in itself as there's no animation lock nor cooldown on WS, so you'll essentially be able to put out more combos than before during the same time frame.
Plus they're still tweaking the classes (ie archer that is getting overhauled as its skill set is currently pretty boring).
Which isn't a bad thing in itself as there's no animation lock nor cooldown on WS, so you'll essentially be able to put out more combos than before during the same time frame.
Plus they're still tweaking the classes (ie archer that is getting overhauled as its skill set is currently pretty boring).
Haha yea, watching that video, I can believe how slow it looks now.
Not being an ass, but if you are spamming (especially on lancer) you are doing it wrong
In 1.23 the dodging mechanics were ... uhhh dodgy at best, it all depended on the lag on the servers, sometimes it would work sometimes it wouldn't which makes me wonder if it was working as intended.
I do agree that individual cool downs would make for a much more dynamic battle system though.
That'd not much different to 1.23, you normally used your top combo to maximise DPS unless you couldn't because of Animation Lock.
IonicSnake
Banned
I don't understand where people get this idea that all skills share the same global cool down. All skills have a individual cool down, it's just that the first skills you start with have the same cool down as the global one. See the global cool down as an ATB from other FF games.
Also where Lancer is concerned their abilities are basically all about combo's which increase the next skills potency, so at end game you will be doing your 1,2,3 combo just like in 1.23, yea you will no doubt be spamming this combo over and over but its not much different than 1.0 in that respect.
Positional combos are still in ARR but only the starting combo matters, because a lot of people complained in 1.0 they couldn't combo because the mobs were moving during combos.
There are new patches up btw.
Positional combos are still in ARR but only the starting combo matters, because a lot of people complained in 1.0 they couldn't combo because the mobs were moving during combos.
There are new patches up btw.
Hardmode, yes, definitely. Our group wiped nightly for a week and had fun the entire time.
And doing Garuda speedburns as PLD. That was still exciting after almost 4 dozen wins.
And it's a shame the PC I had at the time had to give its all just to run the game so I couldn't FRAPs anything...
Edit:
And this is great, too. Because of lag and even monster animation lock in 1.x it was so hard sometimes to do combos like as MNK or DRG. On your screen you were beside the mob but according to the server it had already turned around two seconds ago and you just lost all your TP on a c-c-combo breaker. It also made doing solo combos annoying, especially for MNK. Just requiring the combo starter to be positional is a great compromise IMO.
Riposte
Member
Like many old concepts in 1.0, stamina was fine. They didn't really do much with it though and it was executed poorly.
EDIT: I liked the challenge of full positional combos. It was a part of what made me love the Nael Deus fight. All the better if screwing up makes you lose your damage per second. That introduces distance between good and bad players, which has nothing to do with gear. Of course lag is an issue, but I would rather see them try to fix that.
darkblade77
Member
1.x combat suffered from a perception hurdle just as much as it did on its base merits. Changing the impression of the system so that WoW/etc players could identify with it more easily is pretty vital to potentially pulling in that crowd.
I don't disagree one bit. On Darnus fight, for example, damage dealers had to pay attention to things besides their WS cooldowns in order to do sufficient damage. Had to pay attention to his movement and his skill usage (partially patterned, partially random), had to pay attention to the tank, etc. Had to know your job and the fight to where you could identify the best times to unleash combos and when you needed to dodge or hold your fire. Same as animation lock on ifrit or something. Showed the difference between good play and bad play that had nothing to do with gear and which gear couldn't really overcome.
Considering ARR's baby's-bottom-smooth combat feel compared to 1.x, I think the full positional combo thing would work just fine... because the positioning element wasn't the what the problem was, the problem was the lag. Still, I'm not completely sorry to see the full positional combos toned down to combo-starters. I'm sure PvP is another big motivator for this change even though I don't care about PvP and would rather it not even be part of the plan, but whatevs.
theSlacker
Member
Lag is still the problem. Anyone who has played lancer on the beta can tell you this. If a mob is moving at all, even if you see your skill animation going off, chances are you are not hitting.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
With how movement worked plus lag I wouldn't compare it with PSO or Tera. Seeing ARR seems like a more traditional RPG system. After all GCD is just an inverse ATB system (you start with one turn instead of waiting for one turn and and turns can be shorter depending of certaain parameters just like ATB).
Eh it's the same speed. obviously the character is higher level so he has more abilities, but if you watch the character there is still a long delay between him using his moves.
Can't wait to get back into it tonight, kinda sucks they will be deleting characters to start every new phase, but there is definitely enough time between phases to get to the highest content available in beta. I'll probably switch to a less populated server when P2 starts.
I think this is more something they have put in place to stop people kiting and doing the reset dance with tethering mechanics.
Uh, are you talking about the congested starting areas or something? Because that hardly counts. I haven't heard so much as a peep out of anyone in my LS about having trouble doing combos when it mattered or hitting moving mobs in melee (in dungeons, party combat against higher level outdoor mobs that didn't die in 2 hits, etc.).
theSlacker
Member
That only effects melee? Didn't have the problem leveling archer, and since they can move during all attacks there is nothing to stop them from kiting. Melee just has a smaller amount of space that the mob can be in for an attack to connect so you can notice these (latency) problems as melee more. The only times as range that it would be noticeable is if you were already at max range and the mob was moving away from you, or you are close enough that and the mob is running though you. Basically the only position that melee can be in.
Neg. True I didn't notice it in the dungeons that I did, but everything I fought there was stationary. Not counting the super packed lag fest that was the first day, but this was still happening later anytime a range got the tag on something before I could get to it, making it run when I was trying to attack. I do disagree that being in congested areas hardly counts though. That would mean that I would be fine with melee getting the shaft on any big event.
Do I think this is something that will be "fixed"? No, latency is an issue in any game like this. Having the servers closer to you may remove most of the problem as well. Was just pointing out that latency is still an issue with trying to implement changing positioning for each combo attack, and it isn't all skill based, and also defending the choice made to make it so only the combo starter has a positional condition on extra damage. (Well and the removal of animation lock for melee at least)
New blog post: http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/post/243
Different music at night is already in beta but different music for different weather is awesome
Different music at night is already in beta but different music for different weather is awesome
Xux
Member
Yeah, the game's supposed to relaunch with, like, 24 colors.
Robobandit
Member
They are planning on having dye-able pieces of armor, yes. That stuff is just newbie quest gear, though.. it's not unusual for people in low level areas to look similar.
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theSlacker
Member
As a small side note. I think it is a little odd that all the quests for Gridania give red outfits when their city guard and everything around there has green armor. Not an issue or anything, just something small I noticed.
Well, if nothing changes, then yeah it might mean melee get the shaft. My point was it's still early beta and stress testing is still part of the equation.
They should probably make melee range a little longer in general (I did hear complaints from LNCs specifically about this) so we don't have a third game in a row (XI, 1.x, and then ARR) where you can be chasing a mob as a melee and on your screen you're inside its model but the server still says you're out of range.
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