theSlacker
Member
It is a problem that a lot of games of this type have, and I have no idea of how to fix. Just longer melee is more of a band-aid.
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT2| ARR: Phase 4 August.
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It is a problem that a lot of games of this type have, and I have no idea of how to fix. Just longer melee is more of a band-aid.
we.are.the.armada
Member
theSlacker
Member
It is more that beards are face dependent. As in they are part of the "facial features" check list and some faces don't even have full beard options, instead of a full list like the hair style list.
list
we.are.the.armada
Member
Necessary: Equal Beard Opportunity
I've never really experienced this in another mmo though, I do know what you are talking about though I encountered it a few times on Gladiator but didn't think much of it.
Guess I'll test it out some more this weekend.
Like what? WoW and TERA don't have this problem, for example... Or at least only do very rarely, compared to XI/XIV where it's the norm.
theSlacker
Member
Really don't know how Tera remained as playable as it did since any lag at all like this would, and did when it rarely happened, completely fuck up everything. I am not sure what it is about ARR that makes this more noticeable. May be not enough stuff client side (even though there is much more then in 1.0), or the damage not being front loaded and has a specific time during the skill that it is applied. Could also be the high amount of people in the same area and the distance to the servers. That possibility is why I haven't made too big a deal about it yet.
Stuff like this has happened in every other target based mmo that I have played though, just wasn't as often and noticeable. Entire combat systems of those games have been designed around it as a possibility and they attempt to not put in place systems that would make it more annoying then it should be, like animation lock on melee attack skills. Why the removal of animation lock was such a good thing for me as it signaled that they knew the balance issues involved.
Leveling my SMN to 75 was a pain because people always wanted me to cure instead of actually playing SMN.
Having good gear doesn't mean you played the job well. And the fact that you had some jobs at cap also doesn't mean you were good at those jobs. It wasn't like the jobs were insanely difficult to play, but they were far more challenging than what I was presented with in XIV 1.0 or anything in WoW.
All I'm saying is that I hope ARR isn't easy mode to cap, then easy mode +1 endgame. I'm not as concerned about endgame, but I am holding judgment on everything else until at least phase 4.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
How about 24 beards and hairstyles extra
I would pay serious cash for hairstyles based on FF characters (ie. Rydia, Serah, Lightning, Rosa, etc.)
I heard of somebody complaining about how there are only two facial hair options, so every beardo with it looks too samey.
I found one that was very Noctis-like for male Hyur. (Midlander)
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
FFXIV 1.0 was poorly optimized and had terrible client and server side architecture with non-regional servers. When you are playing right next to someone and can see what is happening, directly on each others' screens, it was painfully obvious just how bad it was. FFXIV ARR Alpha did not have this problem, despite the servers being located in Japan.
In comparison, during Alpha, when I moved to a location on screen, relative to the person next to me, I could see on that person's screen that the movements had minimal lag and the movements reflected my actions and tracked my character's path perfectly. Running in circles around a player actually resulted in me running in circles around the player. Hit detection was very good.
This was not the case during the FFXIV ARR Beta. It could be a combination of the huge amount of players and the problems they were experiencing with their FATE system and other code added to the game since the Alpha build. I do recall the issue subsiding quite a bit when the testing period was close to ending and many people were no longer logged in.
Nexus issues aside, TERA has great server and client architecture and latency was barely noticeable, even when I played on Korean servers. You could tell that there was some latency but it never made much of a difference. Server and client side programming and hit detection were good enough to compensate.
demosthenes
Member
Leveling my SMN to 75 was a pain because people always wanted me to cure instead of actually playing SMN.
Having good gear doesn't mean you played the job well. And the fact that you had some jobs at cap also doesn't mean you were good at those jobs. It wasn't like the jobs were insanely difficult to play, but they were far more challenging than what I was presented with in XIV 1.0 or anything in WoW.
All I'm saying is that I hope ARR isn't easy mode to cap, then easy mode +1 endgame. I'm not as concerned about endgame, but I am holding judgment on everything else until at least phase 4.
Before SE broke leveling wide open, it was hard to get good exp and a lot of jobs suffered for this. Hoping they've learned with the failed launch of XIV and are looking at all the stuff they learned with XI (which they seemed to ignore for XIV).
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
From the sounds of it, SMN will be a DD class so I doubt it will get shoved into a job it's not ment for.
Leveling my SMN to 75 was a pain because people always wanted me to cure instead of actually playing SMN.
Having good gear doesn't mean you played the job well. And the fact that you had some jobs at cap also doesn't mean you were good at those jobs. It wasn't like the jobs were insanely difficult to play, but they were far more challenging than what I was presented with in XIV 1.0 or anything in WoW.
All I'm saying is that I hope ARR isn't easy mode to cap, then easy mode +1 endgame. I'm not as concerned about endgame, but I am holding judgment on everything else until at least phase 4.
You must be smoking, I didn't say gear made me good, all I indicated is that the gear made summoner easy to play because of the fact I can have an always out summon at that point (very very rare when I played, I think probably only two summoner on ragnarok can do that (including japanese ones)).
11 being more challenging than anything in WOW? You serious? I stopped playing 11 a bit after COP came out. I played it starting in 2002 as the japanese pc release. The only thing made it hard was how crappy/slow the system was. It had it's ups also. But really engaging game play at a higher level? WoW was definitly "harder" in many ways. Take Arena as an example. Its as hard as you want it to be because you are playing with real humans. Also if you try to argue that PVE in 11 was more "challenging" than wow, you are just viewing things in rose tinted glasses or haven't really had a chance to experience what WOW truely offers (or offered) in PVE.
Riposte
Member
Comparing the difficulty of both FFXI and WoW is irrelevant. FFXI gave you challenges that forced you to cooperate at lower levels (and later levels as people used the same character/name to level up other jobs) and WoW didn't. FFXI had a much more interconnected community than expected from a MMO these days and WoW didn't. It is usually argued these two are related.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
Source? I was happy with different music for night and day but that does sound pretty amazing.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
New blog post: http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/post/243
Different music at night is already in beta but different music for different weather is awesome
Pretty awesome, Soken is the man.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
Thanks. Missed that post somehow. This is going to be sooooo good.
LOL are you kidding me? No wonder they had to reboot this game. I almost fell asleep watching that. I probably would have quit the 2.0 beta after 30 minutes if the combat was still like that.
I still don't get why it can't be compared on a pure game mechanics level.
EDIT:
Oh BTW
My name is Lux Lucis on Tonbery, level 16 GLD 12 ARC, Would like to run some dungeon this weekend =O
theSlacker
Member
Because it isn't a favorable comparison to FFXI.
SMN is debuff and Dot specialist, I'm sure it will have some DD stuff up its sleeve as well though.
WoW had awesome end game and FFXI didn't, just saying
Yea I'd be up for that, will be trying to get my GLA to 15 first though (have 16 ARC also), hope they have fixed leves, screwed if im grinding mobs.
Riposte
Member
I didn't say it couldn't be. I think people are focusing on the wrong things if we are talking about leveling and challenge. What the "old guard" of 11 remember (though however poorly stated) are the obstacles which forced the creation of a stronger community element. This in effect made people care more if they or others did good or bad. It was like a natural scoring system built into the game, where you had to please your party members. This was made important because of the merciless (not to exaggerate) conditions of FFXI. You had to party, you had to be appealing enough to join a party, you lost progress if you had a bad party, you needed others to get the basic things you wanted (level limit, AF, etc etc). This likely shows up to some extent in all MMOs when we get into tightly organized guilds and raids, but this was FFXI's way at the very base and it influenced player interaction at every level. In comparison endgames often feel like compartmentalized communities. It is almost as if the whole game is instanced while you solo your way to a cap then that instance includes a few more players when you hit the cap. (Budging even a little on letting players solo I feel weakens the whole thing, but what are you going to do?)
EDIT: The way I would put it is FFXI was a broken model of the "MMORPG", but broken in all the interesting ways. That game created saints and monsters out of people. On the topic of endgame, I certainly didn't mind the slow gear progression because I wasn't a slave to an obsession to do 1% better. Fuck MMORPGs anyway, they all suck and the more MMORPG-like they are the more they suck. If FFXIV sucks in that way, I'll be sticking around for the atmosphere and an attachment to the idea of FFXI-2.
Oh please.
I am more "old guard" than the old guard that's defending 11 now. I remember days where behe/faf was had 72/24 respawn/pop time. I remember when level cap was 50 before the first genkai quest.
The community is not any better than wow in anyway.
Jeez I forgot how slow the original combat was.
Riposte
Member
I don't understand why you think you are rare.
Because I know I am, I know how the importer community back then was, and how SMALL it was. How it was concentrated on 1 server with less than 100 of us combined. I have more reason to like ff11 than many of the old guard claim they do. But the fact is there, rose tinted glass that look back in time... isn't good for ARR.
Riposte
Member
That has nothing to do with my observations as a player from the US launch. Moreover it doesn't even contradict anything I've said. Right now you saying "I've played earlier so your argument is wrong even if I'm not saying anything!" You don't have any more reason to like something more than anyone. You imported a game- so fucking what? Unless someone is asking specifically what it was like before the US launch (which would have to be radically different for this to even be a point), no one cares.
Like I said earlier also, I played until about half year after COP release.
The community is not any "better"
Riposte
Member
Says you. I repeat: so fucking what?
I played FFXI from beta up until WOTG. Game was probably the most fun I've ever had as a kid...going to Dragon's Aery and holding Fafnir to get it out of JP time while JPs tried to MPK you by dragging spiders on top of you and standing on fafnirs tail and cure spamming your whole alliance was epic...then again I was like 14/15 yrs old at that time. Now that I think of it, I hope ARR never, ever becomes like FFXI.
No one has to care about any one else's opinion. There's no point in posting anything either on gaf.
But obviously, we are posting here.
I have met more than half of my wow guild (when we were hardcore), they were all really nice peoples. I am not sure how you can't call that a tight community.
I have also met some of my old JP Dynamis group that's based in tokyo when I traveled there. Also nice people.
Both game just have as many of dumbass or jackass in term of % also. There's not much difference, other than one's feeling.
Riposte
Member
I suggest just reading my posts. You are not replying to them and just posturing for no discernible reason, that's my point. I never said this or that community was nicer, I said it was more relevant (more necessary) throughout the game.
Kirashi is that you?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Looking at the leaked skill list, Arcanist is everything I wanted it to be
Other than it is not more relevant, you just need a group (small group) of people to play with.
Same thing with a lot other MMO that doesn't have cross server stuff (WoW also at until end of BC).
Still all you need is a small group of people together.
The difference between the 2 games?
FF11 required you to have the group to do the boring stuff ( leveling ). While WoW only required group for things that's a bit less tedious (obviously my opinion).
Do you know AA?
darkblade77
Member
As a longtime XI player, I agree that the game had a sense of community that felt a lot more 'real' than pretty much any MMO I've ever played. And that is largely because every significant piece of content in the game had an absurd amount of preparation time, overhead, and organization required before anyone was successful at it.
Actions had weight. Neither the game nor the devs held your hand. Until the game's much later stages of life, if you wanted to get anything done you were committing a significant amount of your time and attention to it along with other people, which meant that everyone took the events happening in the game much more seriously.
The final product was immersive(and time-devouring) in a way you'll only see fictional MMOs describe, and I doubt we'll be seeing that kind of model again for a long time, if ever.
And just for the record, WoW barely touches on that realm. 40-man raids had some of it, because the upper-level organization had to be a different kind of serious for them to succeed. The earlier forms of open-world PvP/Battlegrounds had it if you were a Honor-monger, etc. But that was just a specific strata of player, whereas in XI--the game where it literally can take an hour to do simple productive tasks--everyone was affected by it at all levels of play.
Actions had weight. Neither the game nor the devs held your hand. Until the game's much later stages of life, if you wanted to get anything done you were committing a significant amount of your time and attention to it along with other people, which meant that everyone took the events happening in the game much more seriously.
The final product was immersive(and time-devouring) in a way you'll only see fictional MMOs describe, and I doubt we'll be seeing that kind of model again for a long time, if ever.
And just for the record, WoW barely touches on that realm. 40-man raids had some of it, because the upper-level organization had to be a different kind of serious for them to succeed. The earlier forms of open-world PvP/Battlegrounds had it if you were a Honor-monger, etc. But that was just a specific strata of player, whereas in XI--the game where it literally can take an hour to do simple productive tasks--everyone was affected by it at all levels of play.
Yeah, where's the goddamn gil!
There's quite a few of the old Ragnarok importers on here, too. We're still swinging in Req.
LOL the 60 million gil question.
I bought a few things for some people I liked, Gatsu had my account info and took a lot of it and refused to give back, there was a lot of drama at the end. Ya community lol. The NA infighting, AA vs Zenmetsu, OH SHIT REMEMBER FUTAKOI?
So you guys went to req instead of the calm? Awntawn was telling me about the calm a while back.
There are some people that probably really hated me after my departure. And then there's a group of the same old guard that see me the same way
Riposte
Member
Community is what you make it really, even if its a small one, my guild in WoW was awesome, red dot has some awesome people aswell, but outside those close nit groups I don't think the communities are any different, you get assholes you get nice guys its all the same.
As I've said before some of the worse people I have met online were from FFXI because of their elitist attitude.
25 man raids were enough hassle for me to arrange, 40 would have drove me insane, I'm not looking forward to the 24 man stuff ARR is going to have, the amount of organisation .. /puke
25 man content in WoW reminded me of alliance stuff in FFXI, because you would get your party sorted and then someone would AFK or have to go to bed or something. (don't miss it at all)
As I've said before some of the worse people I have met online were from FFXI because of their elitist attitude.
25 man raids were enough hassle for me to arrange, 40 would have drove me insane, I'm not looking forward to the 24 man stuff ARR is going to have, the amount of organisation .. /puke
25 man content in WoW reminded me of alliance stuff in FFXI, because you would get your party sorted and then someone would AFK or have to go to bed or something. (don't miss it at all)
^This.
I liked the feeling of having to work for everything instead of getting the easy mode treatment. It was very satisfying to get that level up or obtain certain gear.
I actually enjoyed leveling in FFXI. In fact, I would say I enjoyed leveling and merit parties more than most of the endgame activities of "let's do this same run for 6 months in hopes that I may get one or two of the drops I want".
Although the first time I entered some of the Dynamis runs were pretty epic.
Riposte
Member
I don't know if I made it clear, but I don't actually want a FFXI situation redux. I believe a worthwhile developer challenge is to take what could be learned from FFXI and apply it to a better game (and better game in my mind is something that is not at all like a MMORPG, but I realize that the may be required). To me something as simple as an unusually strong focus on partying combined with tools to streamline the party joining process and some actual balance would be a little exciting. Even if what you get wouldn't be as "potent" because a lack of harshness, it would be a step up from what I'm expecting.
theSlacker
Member
The first set of 40 man things were all warm body dependent. As in you could do it with a bunch less people that knew what they were doing. Wasn't until certain encounters and then full raids later on that you really needed all 40 at full attention, and by then if you had been working it from the start, you would have gathered that many quality players.
Really that kind of thing is all scheduled as well. Same with 25 man. I don't expect to ever be able to just throw together a 25 man in ARR on short notice. Something that became possible to do a bunch in wow around wrath because of how easy the starting raid was and how many players were playing at the same time.
I didn't find FFXI particularly challenging (as BRD/WHM/RDM). Everything was just slower and tedious.
I think a lot of WoW's fights/dungeons/10m endgame is pretty interesting though. I'd like to see something like that in FFXIV (but not a total copy obviously).
I played it as long as you. lol. But I agree w/ that last sentence.
I think a lot of WoW's fights/dungeons/10m endgame is pretty interesting though. I'd like to see something like that in FFXIV (but not a total copy obviously).
I played it as long as you. lol. But I agree w/ that last sentence.
Nah, it was more like friendly competition. As far as I know, me nor any of the other officers had a problem With Zenmetsu.
theSlacker
Member
An interesting thing that makes it hard to be able to take the "good" parts of a mmorpg and roll them into the next is it seems that varies from person to person. For me it is less the forced parting for every single thing that FFXI had that I loved about it, but the scale that making some of the other things take time added. Things like having to wait for an airship, and only classes that logically have a teleport ability being able to teleport you. Having to travel past hostile mobs and areas that you know would kill you on the way to getting to areas that you are expected to be. Buying/questing for maps instead of them just auto filling and having exactly where you need to be circled on them. I want a game that has all that, but then the open seamless world that WoW had, as well as how tight and precise control over your character felt.
It seems that only the very last thing there is something that ARR gives. Still can save itself if it has the most important thing though, a reason to keep playing. Something that I haven't gotten in any of the mmorpgs I've tried since quitting WoW and FFXI.
lol same experience here, but I just hope XIV retains that community feeling in XI, where everyone on the server knew one another at some point, would wave when crossing, or randomly help each other. Or the feeling of traveling to an area by chocobo, having to get off and travel by foot, or just going across the land for a mission quest. And of course partying up and making friends with everyone (or almost everyone barring someone doing something insane) there.
Also I miss server drama lol.
EDIT: Forgot beta was scheduled tonight.
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