ummmm.. dude. you are kind of a dick and potentially wasting 7 other players' time just so you can remain "spoiler free". Get over yourself and learn the fights before hand ffs. :\
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT4| Welcome, PS4 users!
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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ummmm.. dude. you are kind of a dick and potentially wasting 7 other players' time just so you can remain "spoiler free". Get over yourself and learn the fights before hand ffs. :\
I agree with all of this, but especially the part in bold.
There's nothing worse than a bad tank, but a tank that's willing to learn is great fun. I don't assume anyone will know any fights, especially in the low level roulette. I'm always ready with a full explanation of whatever we're about to do if any one needs it. I'll examine my party members and if they're not level synced I'll assume they're new. It's amazing how many other players just assume everyone is there to blaze through everything then drop when it appears that some effort might be required.
The fact that some people have a problem with this is asinine to me. If your time is so precious, what the fuck are you doing playing a timesink MMO?
It's a video game. He's playing within the rules, playing the way he enjoys it. DF is luck of the draw. Deal with it.
The most fun I ever had in the game was at Titan when I made mistake after mistake along with another new player. The two others had a laugh about it and coached us up, and we ended up beating it. We all friended each other afterwards, and now I'd do the same to any other new player making mistakes.
Those are Fresh 50 fights, which, you can very quickly get yourself over-geared for at this point. If everyone is overgeared for those fights, you can usually end up ignoring a lot of the mechanics, and thus can often muddle through without use of Videos.
The same cannot be said for fights like The Extreme Primals, Second Coil, or heck, even First Coil have mechanics that'll wipe the floor with if you're not careful. While it's theoretically possible to go into fights like that without watching a video, and muddle through it, in practice it's radically impractical. Even with knowing exactly what to do, these fights are huge execution checks, and often require great amounts of practice to do correctly.
Usually, if I'm running with a static group at the time, I'll go into a fight once, real fast, completely raw, mainly so I don't inadvertantly spoil any cutscenes or whatnot. However, in occasions like that, everyone in the party has no real expectation of beating that fight.
As such, I won't do that if I'm not running in a static. If I'm going with a PF group, or even a DF group, I at least read a text description of the fight first. While I hate losing that, "first time raw experience," I just can't waste other peoples time, when they really do have an expectation of clearing that fight.
The Praiseworthy
Member
Guys I heard there are some kind of salons or options to change hair cuts or facial hair in the game... is that true?
If it is then how and where?!
If it is then how and where?!
there is a huge difference between "first time through" and "I know nothing about the fight". it's not like I'm saying I expect a 4 minute run and if it goes to 4:10 I'm dropping. but wiping because a tank didn't know the facing for a boss wiping everyone while everyone else was doing their job is the epitome of selfishness, especially when they could read a guide in like 5 minutes and know the basics.
I did. Just this week. Tank and DPS didn't know Aurumn Vale and in 90 minutes we couldn't clear it. 90 minutes of my time down the drain. 90 miuntes of their time down the drain. Because they couldn't take 5 minutes to read a guide.
I mean forget my time. Isn't their time worth more to them than that? I mean it's almost like they're making a case for it being fun to wipe? Wtf?
whatever I guess...... Too each their own. It's not like perfection is being asked for here... but getting carried because you suck and/or are unprepared is a pretty low bar for entertainment.. I mean damn.. among a close group of friends having fun is one thing.. but imposing that on strangers simply because "the game lets me do it" is just bad form. it's like standing in line at the coffee shop taking 5 minutes to decide on one drink. Just because there's no rule/law against it doesn't somehow make it acceptable. The only way any of this can be justified is "deal with it. I'm selfish" like you basically said. kudos I guess.
There's an aeshetician, which you can summon to the Inn Room using a token, after completing an optional quest line that begins in Limsa Lominsa.
Wow, so much about this I can't agree with.
There's no difference at all between being new to a fight and knowing nothing about it if you're playing the way the developers intended. You like to read guides. Others would assume that's not how the game is meant to be played. For them (I imagine most people) new = knowing nothing.
I have had 40/50 minute frustrations in dungeons before. That's part of an MMO. Dealing with other players, some of whom are bad. If it's apparent the tank isn't good enough, explain why and if it doesn't improve, vote abandon, and do it nicely. You should never actually be in there the whole 90 minutes, it's apparent within 10-15 if you'll be able to clear content with the group as it is.
And yes, wiping can be fun. A lot more fun than a 25 minute Castrum speed run for myth or what have you with expert ilvl 100 players. Dragging a group through tough content they might not have otherwise gotten though - including the wipes along the way - is when the game is at its best to me.
we are best off just agreeing to disagree.
with that being said.. knowingly going in unprepared and being ok with potentially wasting 7 other players' time is still a selfish act. you can say "deal with it" as much as you want but it doesn't change that and in fact just reinforces it.
The Praiseworthy
Member
Sure. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I know a lot of MMO players are in your camp, and to be fair I fully understand it. Just don't agree with it personally. As long as we both have fun (and get grouped with similar-minded players, lol) then it's all good.
crazygambit
Member
Maybe so, but I think expecting people to study outside the game the content they're about to experience is insanity and certainly not the way the game was designed for.
There are likely 2 main reasons people are playing a particular instance. They are new to it or the game is paying them to play it (by extra experience or tomes). Why would the game pay you to re play low level content? If the answer in your head is anything other than to help those newer players get through that content, you are kind of a selfish dick. New players aren't there to make sure you get your tomes faster, it's the other way around. So if they have to potentially waste a bit of their time explaining the gist of fight to me, then so be it. I pay it back when I myself have to explain the fight to other new players when I go in the low level roulette. It's the way the game was designed.
If all you want is to maximize your farming time in the most efficient way possible, then it's you who needs to get out of DF and form your own raiding party, not the other way around.
Anyhow, so far I haven't had any problems in game, no one has verbally abused me yet. I usually pick up stuff pretty fast and I'm not altogether terrible as a tank, so I guess that helps. Hopefully you don't have to suffer through a dungeon with me.
This is actually the most annoying thing about all of it, IMO. As DPS, I essentially have to show up to every fight knowing at least the basics of strategy because if if a few players are clueless and don't learn VERY QUICKLY you're very likely looking at a situation where one tank and/or healer is going to rage quit, and then the rest of the tank/healers follow suit. It's not a big deal to a tank if a group falls apart because their queues are so fast (and thanks to the join-in-progress thing it's not exactly hard to dodge the 30 minute lockout), but as a DPS it means I get to spend another thirty minutes to an hour waiting for my next shot.
I'd be totally fine with spending longer on primals when the group's learning, but you only have an hour to go from start to clear in DF and the time limit has consistently screwed over the good groups I've been in (good being where we made further progress each time and the tanks/healers didn't bail or demand to be kicked after the second wipe.) The existing time limit means that learning mechanics in the fight itself is probably going to screw your DF group over unless they can carry you, and I'm not sure you can even carry a tank through some of these fights. Echo doesn't even really help since a lot of the tank mechanics are basically insta-deaths if they're failed.
I'll be interesting to see how you feel about this in later fights--my impression is that the mechanics in the later fights are considerably tougher on tanks than the earlier ones. Tank swapping seems to be a massive barrier for a lot of people.
again, a massive difference between "maximizing farming time" and "unprepared tank wipes the raid"
edit - I'll say without a change in your attitude I will be surprised if you go far as a tank before switching to another role. You say you are good with the abuse.. but eventually you will get to a point where the abuse will just be people (most importantly healers) dropping the instance and "finding new members" won't work, because as a healer I rarely join in progress when my queues are already instant, knowing that it means I'm going to in progress on a likely failed dungeon run.
To each their own, but eventually your attitude on this will catch up to you, especially as others have pointed out by Coil and EX runs at the latest.
Sounds good but why no Transpose?
Love that Raging Strikes. It's just a pity the cooldown is so punative.
Cool. This seems logical.
Dre_G_Writer
Member
This is why when I start a dungeon for the first time, I let the party know right from the start, "this is my first time in this dungeon" and as I tank, they need to give me some tips on shit to look out for. and boss tips. And thus far, my experience has been great. But I mostly play with my Free Company so the dungeon experiences is much better.
EteRnal PAL
Member
I got the game day one and it was over for me last week.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I believe you just hate catgirls in general
It doesn't take much to explain strategy in-game, but it doesn't take much time to skim through a youtube video to get the gist of it.
I don't mind having to explain things to new people, but on the higher ilvl endgame fights (ex primals, coil) they should at least watch a video or read up on it. Or form a group with like-minded people or friends on party-finder.
I don't mind having to explain things to new people, but on the higher ilvl endgame fights (ex primals, coil) they should at least watch a video or read up on it. Or form a group with like-minded people or friends on party-finder.
They are the worst!
Okay, look.
At this point, if you want to do an Extreme Primal fight, entirely fresh, you're going to have to start a PF and go in with a group of other players learning the fight. You'll need a certain amount of luck to pull this off, since, the vast majority of the community have already learned these fights by now.
If you join anything other than a learning group, without at least having watched a video, you will almost certainly be vote kicked, and frankly I think they'd be within their right for doing so.
After a certain point, especially for tank, "These fights stop being simple," and even if you know what you're supposed to do, you're expected to fail for awhile. So you're, "not," going to pick these later fights up quickly if you go into them unprepared. You'll dye, wipe an entire party over and over, and waste numerous peoples time, just because you were too proud to at least read a guide first.
At this point, if you want to do an Extreme Primal fight, entirely fresh, you're going to have to start a PF and go in with a group of other players learning the fight. You'll need a certain amount of luck to pull this off, since, the vast majority of the community have already learned these fights by now.
If you join anything other than a learning group, without at least having watched a video, you will almost certainly be vote kicked, and frankly I think they'd be within their right for doing so.
After a certain point, especially for tank, "These fights stop being simple," and even if you know what you're supposed to do, you're expected to fail for awhile. So you're, "not," going to pick these later fights up quickly if you go into them unprepared. You'll dye, wipe an entire party over and over, and waste numerous peoples time, just because you were too proud to at least read a guide first.
":3 meow
I don't think there is any problem with someone going into a dungeon, raid, or trial blind as long as they are patient and willing to learn. I've done that for every dungeon in the game so far. I even went into Turn 1 of the Coil completely blind as a tank. We cleared it without a single death, because the other tank was kind enough to give me a good explaination of what I needed to do. It would have ruined the experience to have it all spoiled by watching a Youtube video.
crazygambit
Member
I agree that's poor form. I've never quit a dungeon and likely never will. Only once have I been in a group that voted to abandon. My first Titan fight where the DPS couldn't kill the heart fast enough 5 times in a row and it was clear it wasn't gonna happen.
Last night I did Halatali HM thinking it was what I needed for the relic quest. I realized right away I'd made a mistake, but I played through it. It was fun. Then I go to DF and check on the Halatali boss I needed for the relic without realizing I hadn't unclicked Halatali HM. Of course I got into that again. I was a little pissed. I told the party about it and asked if I could be kicked. They said you couldn't be kicked before 15 minutes had passed and that was the end of that. I ended up doing it back to back. Wasted around 40 minutes, but it was my mistake, no reason they had to suffer because of it. That would have been a dick move.
I think the time limits are pretty generous, mainly to account for someone disconnecting (and it's ALWAYS the healer). You can still comfortably do most dungeons even after waiting 20 min for a replacement healer.
ShinMaruku
Member
Thank god I am not a catgril, I just have a elezen >_>
I'll absolutely agree there are a ton of them. When I make my MMO characters it always comes down to "am I really going to be able to watch this avatar do shit for like 400+ hours?" which rarely ends with "typical looking dude". So my characters (as far back as I can remember) were:
UO bald dude (go figure)
EQ Female High Elf
CoH asian looking monk dude
SWG Wookie
WoW orc/tauren/goblin (all male) and female belf
Star Trek some blue alien.... chick?
SWG generic green human dude (mostly because as a female you end up with male romance options)
FFXIV lala was a decent choice.. but ultimately the cat chicks are kind of cute so what the hell. hence why with fantasia I will probably hang as male lala. Male cat dude I really don't dig playing the effeminate males too much.
tiggerkiddo
Member
The first step is admitting you have a problem
are there usually surprises in these things or is what they've already mentioned likely all there is to be?
There are always some surprises. Whether they are big or not has varied. But we know there is something that we don't really know anything about that should be mentioned on this live letter or the next one. Something non-combat-related.
crackbabyjr
Member
Quelling strikes moved to level 50 Bard ability.
Most of the surprises we don't know about, or some of the more exciting and meaningful content previews, tend to come in the 2nd Live Letter to the Producer though.
I took a freshman psych class I can totally figure out these cat people now
Usually. It's worth checking our regardless, even if the "bullet-points" don't interest you. There's no telling what they'll show.
ShinMaruku
Member
Stormhammer
Member
Don't be jealous of all the Darkangel Nekochans
Transpose reset your astral buff to level I which you then have to build up again, losing dps per cast until then. By using Blizzard III or Fire III to change your elemental aspect you automatically gain the level III buff. So you would only use transpose to go from Fire to Ice if your out of MP, otherwise you always use level III magic to switch between the two elements.
It's less the dungeons and more the later primals where the time limit is an issue in my experience--you get 60 minutes for Ultima HM or Garuda EX. Assume five minutes for an info dump of the key mechanics at the beginning, because it's always best to assume somebody in the party is new and not admitting it, then another three to five minutes in between wipes as people try to clarify what went wrong. That doesn't leave a ton of time to actually fight the thing, since you have to restart the fight every time you wipe, and it's inevitable that people who know the general strat but haven't done it will eat a few plumes or take an Ifrit to the face or forget to leave Spiney alone. Generally there's no point in starting the fight if you're much under the ten minute mark, either, so the last ten minutes of the timer is useless unless you're already on your winning battle. A twenty minute wait for a healer (or a tank--weirdly experienced tanks seem to have the least patience with newbie tanks.) ends the run.
If you're going into things completely blind on purpose, you'll probably cause wipes at a some point because the group won't adequately explain something or you'll miss this or that thing in the wall of text at the beginning (and if you're having the group explain things to you in advance, it seems like reading a quick text guide wouldn't really be more of a spoiler.) Ultima HM is really good for exposing when DPS or healers haven't read the basics because they'll generally fail to dodge spectacularly each time a new mechanic pops up. Which isn't something I'm opposed to in concept, but it's where the hour limit becomes a problem.
I use to think like you. Then, right about the time I got to turn 4, someone tried to give me a typed explanation for what was going on and as it went on for page after page I decided "screw it, I'm watching a video." And the ex primals are a lot worse than turn 4. These fights get really complex. I stand by what I said before- I think it's ok to go in fresh for everything up to the end of the relic quest. After that you are going to be wanting to watch videos first because if you don't you are going to spend 90 minutes just learning the basic mechanics. It's way too much for a typed description.
I mean really this. this right here. The harder fights are already hard even when you've actually read guides or watched the videos. Titan HM I watched the guide and still wiped every time on the third configuration of bombs (the rows).
That AV fight I was talking about, the tank would actually run over to pick up the adds on the dragon wiping the party CONTINUOUSLY because of firing arcs behind the dragon. We were like "dude you DO NOT have to move" and he said "I can grab them fast enough before his next attack"
The irony in crazygambit's statements is that he is essentially ok with having the fights "spoiled"... as long as they are (apparently) "spoiled" in party chat.. wtf?? so it's ok if someone explains the whole fight to him in chat but heaven forbid he just go to a guide first? if it was really about avoiding spoilers you'd think he seemingly wouldn't want the fights explained at all. the more he describes it the less it seems to have to do with spoilers and more with just laziness. if it was really about "the thrill of discovery" it would almost make way more sense to just find a group of individuals all thinking along those lines, make an FC and do that sort of thing together. at this point the "I don't want to be spoiled" line holds up less and less, especially with being ok to have the fight explained to him in chat.
Downed Levi EX today.
Our party was almost too good, pushed that damage so hard.
It was fun.
Man that's like the only classy hairstyle for Miqotes.
Our party was almost too good, pushed that damage so hard.
It was fun.
This one:
Man that's like the only classy hairstyle for Miqotes.
Yeah I really enjoyed that plot twist where titan knocked me off the side and I spent the whole fight on the floor.
Blood for blood (lancer) and raging strikes (archer) are the major ones. I do this for PVP but it works great for soloing. And yes WAR has like 10 more str and 20 vit.
Steel cyclone is free damage, unaffected by defiance and hits all around you. Overpower costs a lot of TP, is reduced by defiance and only hits in front. Using them both in a macro sounds like a horrible idea to me, especially since I use steel cyclone for single target sometimes.
Unchained is for extra burst damage and aggro. I use it in conjunction with overpower, berserk, internal release, bloodbath and convalescence to do huge pulls and let the healer cast some holy or something. You can infuriate -> thrill of battle in the middle of that to get even more healing than usual and still get the damage reduction.
Warrior is easy to play poorly but once everything is muscle memory then holding aggro is super easy in any situation. Paladin is much simpler in terms of abilities but flash/riot blade for AOE just didn't do it for me.
Yeah, Turn 4 is about where you start needed detailed written explanations and/or videos. Dedicated progression groups can go in without, but, dedicated progression groups, (IE: The groups that establish the strats that become standard later on.) will runs these fights for hours and hours and hours, experimenting with different strategies and such to find something that works.
Most groups don't have that sort of time, patience, or skill though. So one way or the other, you're almost certainly going to be piggy-backing off strategies that somebody else worked out anyway. If that's the case, you might as well watch the video, or the written guide, to make things go a tiny bit smoother.
PS: T4 was actually just as tough as the Extreme Primal fights, before the Echo, and before people got hecka geared up for it. The difference of course being, most EM primals have at least one insta-wipe mechanic, T4, not so much.
Quick question to other dragoons..
In dungeons like BF hm where you mostly aoe a whole bunch of mobs...
What's your go to?
Do you use Heavy Thrust before doing the spinning attack (can't remember the name on top of my head right now) to get the combo effect? That's what I've done for a while, it seemed TP efficient to do so as I rarely run out of TP doing that.
Or do you just use the spinning attack? Or somehow you can manage to do Doomspike without running out of TP?
Doing the math, it seemed like just the spinning attack would do the most damage?
In dungeons like BF hm where you mostly aoe a whole bunch of mobs...
What's your go to?
Do you use Heavy Thrust before doing the spinning attack (can't remember the name on top of my head right now) to get the combo effect? That's what I've done for a while, it seemed TP efficient to do so as I rarely run out of TP doing that.
Or do you just use the spinning attack? Or somehow you can manage to do Doomspike without running out of TP?
Doing the math, it seemed like just the spinning attack would do the most damage?
If you're with a class that's bad at aoe go with ring of thorns. With a blm you can just doomspike
I'm aware for this, it effectively adds another couple percentage points to Vengeance's Damage mitigation, though it's most useful for large pulls of relatively weak mobs. For bosses, well it's not useless for mitigation, but it adds a lot less there.
Also, I'd say that this is more useful for holding onto enmity, than for mitigation. Not only do you deal a little extra damage, but you get a fair amount of healing enmity as well.
Altered Juice
Member
i feel sorry for the people that queue Turn X or a boss fight and have to wait over 20 minutes just for a tank who doesn't know the mechanics.
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