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[WolvenOne]

Has BiS already been set in stone for 2.2 for all jobs? Last I remember it was still hotly debated on the official forums and reddit

Probably not, I know for a fact that there's a fair amount of debate whether Tanks should spec for damage mitigation or for DPS.

I personally lean towards mitigation for most fights, but I'm working on creating a Tank DPS set right now, for certain upcoming fights.

 

[diablos991]

tbf, those lists only have crafting gear without materia.

If you read the text that goes along with them, you would find that they take into account they are penta-melded.

 

[Isaccard]

tbf, those lists only have crafting gear without materia.

You can add materia to them so the point becomes moot

 

[Aeana]

Probably not, I know for a fact that there's a fair amount of debate whether Tanks should spec for damage mitigation or for DPS.

I personally lean towards mitigation for most fights, but I'm working on creating a Tank DPS set right now, for certain upcoming fights.

There is no debate about this. These two things are not at odds. Off-tanks speccing for DPS is something that comes up for turns when they do not have to tank much, if at all, and are better off doing damage, like in turn 8 or turn 9. This "debate" comes down to one very simple question: can your group do this turn with only one tank? If the answer is yes, then the off-tank puts on DPS gear. End of debate.

 

[Alucrid]

There is no debate about this. These two things are not at odds. Off-tanks speccing for DPS is something that comes up for turns when they do not have to tank much, if at all, and are better off doing damage, like in turn 8 or turn 9. This "debate" comes down to one very simple question: can your group do this turn with only one tank? If the answer is yes, then the off-tank puts on DPS gear. End of debate.

Rag secretly speced for dps in turn 9,thats why he's dying all the time

 

[diablos991]

There is no debate about this. These two things are not at odds. Off-tanks speccing for DPS is something that comes up for turns when they do not have to tank much, if at all, and are better off doing damage, like in turn 8 or turn 9. This "debate" comes down to one very simple question: can your group do this turn with only one tank? If the answer is yes, then the off-tank puts on DPS gear. End of debate.

Only T9 comes down to that question.
T8 single tanking is a no brainer. The other tank needs to be on DPS gear or a DPS class.

 

[WolvenOne]

There is no debate about this. These two things are not at odds. Off-tanks speccing for DPS is something that comes up for turns when they do not have to tank much, if at all, and are better off doing damage, like in turn 8 or turn 9. This "debate" comes down to one very simple question: can your group do this turn with only one tank? If the answer is yes, then the off-tank puts on DPS gear. End of debate.

Not, actually all that different from what I was saying. o_0

Though I might note that I have indeed come across people that have advocated tanks specing for DPS all the time. Or at least that seems to be what they were advocating, I need to be careful not to put words in other peoples mouths.

 

[Aeana]

I guess that means you don't intend to reply to my other post on the last page. It's difficult to have a conversation if the other side is selectively choosing what to respond to.

 

[WolvenOne]

I guess that means you don't intend to reply to my other post on the last page. It's difficult to have a conversation if the other side is selectively choosing what to respond to.

I probably just overlooked it, I'm not trying to slight you or anything, I'm going back between this and work, so I'm doing a lot of mental juggling at the moment.

*reads back.*

No, I've discussed crafted gear with people on the FC, and I'm giving their conclusions deference, as I'm not a DPS and the same rules for crafted gear doesn't apply to Tanks.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely once I decide to get my DRG geared up with better gear, but as of now, know I don't know what ilvl110 pieces are beaten out by ilvl90 crafted pentameld gear.

Just speculating, but I'd assume it to be the pieces that doubled down on Skill Speed, or spell speed.

 

[Kagari]

I probably just overlooked it, I'm not trying to slight you or anything, I'm going back between this and work, so I'm doing a lot of mental juggling at the moment.

*reads back.*

No, I've discussed crafted gear with people on the FC, and I'm giving their conclusions deference, as I'm not a DPS and the same rules for crafted gear doesn't apply to Tanks.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely once I decide to get my DRG geared up with better gear, but as of now, know I don't know what ilvl110 pieces are beaten out by ilvl90 crafted pentameld gear.

Just speculating, but I'd assume it to be the pieces that doubled down on Skill Speed, or spell speed.

i110 stuff is going to be better no matter what.

 

[Aeana]

I probably just overlooked it, I'm not trying to slight you or anything, I'm going back between this and work, so I'm doing a lot of mental juggling at the moment.

*reads back.*

No, I've discussed crafted gear with people on the FC, and I'm giving their conclusions deference, as I'm not a DPS and the same rules for crafted gear doesn't apply to Tanks.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely once I decide to get my DRG geared up with better gear, but as of now, know I don't know what ilvl110 pieces are beaten out by ilvl90 crafted pentameld gear.

Just speculating, but I'd assume it to be the pieces that doubled down on Skill Speed, or spell speed.

I will quote myself.

What I don't understand is why you're projecting on the people who cleared second Coil. You have no idea how much time they spent clearing it. You see it as a matter of days, or weeks. They're coming at it as a matter of actual continuous hours put into it. They did not just walk in and clear the content. They put a LOT of time into it and eventually worked out the puzzle and coordination and won.

Meanwhile, you're complaining about it being too easy, when as far as I know, you have yet to even clear turn 7. If it is sooo easy, then why have you not cleared turn 9? Why has nobody in the FC at all cleared turn 9 yet? Are we bad players? No, we are not. The reason we haven't cleared it is because we have not put in nearly as much time toward learning the mechanics and coordination to win. Because the content is not as easy as you are trying to make it seem.

I want to know about this. This isn't the first time you have lamented content that you have not cleared being "too easy," and I want to know what makes you come to conclusions like that.

 

[WolvenOne]

I will quote myself.


I want to know about this. This isn't the first time you have lamented content that you have not cleared being "too easy," and I want to know what makes you come to conclusions like that.

1: Not sure what other content you're talking about. Only thing I can think of is my recent statement that amounted to, "I hope Ramuh isn't too easy."

2: I stated earlier today that, I believe turns 6-9 to be, "mechanically about as hard as they should be. My commentary today has mostly been in relation to how quickly people can gear up for these fights.

I won't repeat myself, since I've already done that plenty by now, and it's probably getting tiring.

I will however, add that, it's quite odd how you can always grab a piece of ilvl100 Soldiery gear every week, but that ilvl100 weapons practically require you to sacrifice your first born. (Mirror farms, thousands of tomes, weeks of grinding, etc.)

 

[T.O.P]

First three atmas in about an hour o.o

 

[Alucrid]

If you understood Stat weights this wouldn't be an issue

 

[devious.one]

No, I've discussed crafted gear with people on the FC, and I'm giving their conclusions deference, as I'm not a DPS and the same rules for crafted gear doesn't apply to Tanks.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely once I decide to get my DRG geared up with better gear, but as of now, know I don't know what ilvl110 pieces are beaten out by ilvl90 crafted pentameld gear.

Just speculating, but I'd assume it to be the pieces that doubled down on Skill Speed, or spell speed.

:/

I'm gonna pause after this one, but:

Like I said, when fully pentamelded, for DPS the crafted gear is better than most of the ilvl100 and some of the ilvl110. I was tip-toeing a bit earlier when I said earlier said, "reportedly," there's actually very little doubt that this is the case.

???

 

[diablos991]

1: Not sure what other content you're talking about. Only thing I can think of is my recent statement that amounted to, "I hope Ramuh isn't too easy."

2: I stated earlier today that, I believe turns 6-9 to be, "mechanically about as hard as they should be. My commentary today has mostly been in relation to how quickly people can gear up for these fights.

I won't repeat myself, since I've already done that plenty by now, and it's probably getting tiring.

I will however, add that, it's quite odd how you can always grab a piece of ilvl100 Soldiery gear every week, but that ilvl100 weapons practically require you to sacrifice your first born. (Mirror farms, thousands of tomes, weeks of grinding, etc.)

The weapon is usually the most important piece. I'm not surprised they are the hardest to get. It should be that way.

 

[IvorB]

Why is everybody so grumpy in here today?

 

[WolvenOne]

If you understood Stat weights this wouldn't be an issue

I understand stat weight just fine.

Also, while I have no authority, I would request that you perhaps hold back on personally derisive statements such as these.

 

[borghe]

First three atmas in about an hour o.o

f' you.

I have no problem with you.

but still, f' you.

To get 3 I was probably at around 11 hours. Currently at about 13 hours and still only 3.

 

[T.O.P]

f' you.

I have no problem with you.

but still, f' you.

To get 3 I was probably at around 11 hours. Currently at about 13 hours and still only 3.

I was actually pretty fuckin mad since i just found out today how much of a grind there is for zodiac and i was saying fuck this fuck that with my FC, they suggested to just go for an hour of farming in Thanalan and boom lol

RNG at its best

 

[Alucrid]

Well, what I'm saying is, "reportedly," pentamelded crafting gear is, in many cases, better than ilvl100 gear, and supposedly in a few cases, even better than ilvl110 gear, at least for DPS classes.

If that's indeed true, that's probably a slight design flaw, seeing as right now, "having gil," is the only barrier to getting that armor and having the pentamelding done.

I have no issue with people getting crafted high level armor that's suitable for high end content. However, there probably should be some barrier to it other than, "have a ton of gil."

I dunno, maybe require some rare untradable drop or something.

Ok, lets see the receipts.

Like I said, when fully pentamelded, for DPS the crafted gear is better than most of the ilvl100 and some of the ilvl110. I was tip-toeing a bit earlier when I said earlier said, "reportedly," there's actually very little doubt that this is the case.

Also might note, that in a large progression focused FC, there's probably essentially no barrier to getting this armor.

Now, I'm not opposed to the crafted gear being useful. However, reportedly, the crafted gear was intended to be, "starting," gear for Coil, so drops were intended to replace it in time. The fact that it ended up being near ideal clearing gear for some classes is, by all accounts, not intentional.

Most of the 100, sure, some of the 110, no,

Not sometimes, "is," better than the ilvl100, and "sometimes" 110.

Also, once again, in a large progression centric FC, these pieces of armor aren't going to cost 2 million gil a piece. Heck, they don't even cost that much outside those groups.

Also, again, that wasn't intentional. It was a very small whoopsie on the part of the development team.

Wait, now it is "is" and not "most"?

Probably depends a lot more on what pieces of Materia you're melding, rather than the armor pieces themselves.

Completely wrong. If a piece already has max of the most important stat that makes melding much easier. It has every bit as much to do with what's already on there as well as what's being melded in.

primary stat on armor pieces is defense and magic defense, any DPS increase is from the secondary stats. So crafted ilvl90 gear, fulled melded to deal damage, is going to deal a lot of damage, but won't mitigate nearly as much damage as higher ilvl armor.

Kinda imbalanced in that respect, but, if your job is to deal damage, and you're good at avoiding attacks, it does make some sense.

Again, primary stats are vit/str/dex/min/int, secondary stats are det/crit/ss^2/acc

Do you even know what my stance is?

Lets recap.

1: That the gearing up period is perhaps, "slightly," too condensed.

2: That, crafted pentamelding gear is perhaps, "slightly," too useful as Coil starting gear.

3: That maybe it would've been better for the in-game community is Second Coil had taken another week or two to clear.

I'm not making claims that the developers made some sort of catastrophic mistake, rather, I'm saying that a couple taps to the left or right on the slide rule might've worked slightly better.

I'd hardly call that asinine. 9_9

1. This isn't an expansion, it's a patch, it makes sense that you could go into coil with the gear you already have from turns 1-5 to start. Not to mention this flies in the face of how much you were talking about the time to gear up with sand/oil drops being so limited. Clearly it's not that fast to "gear up."

2. Once again, goes directly against what you previously stated.

I probably just overlooked it, I'm not trying to slight you or anything, I'm going back between this and work, so I'm doing a lot of mental juggling at the moment.

*reads back.*

No, I've discussed crafted gear with people on the FC, and I'm giving their conclusions deference, as I'm not a DPS and the same rules for crafted gear doesn't apply to Tanks.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely once I decide to get my DRG geared up with better gear, but as of now, know I don't know what ilvl110 pieces are beaten out by ilvl90 crafted pentameld gear.

Just speculating, but I'd assume it to be the pieces that doubled down on Skill Speed, or spell speed.

These people in the FC should probably do more research on their classes then.

 

[WolvenOne]

:/
???

This is why I usually measure my words my carefully, I almost always regret it when I don't. What I should have said was, "almost always better than ilvl100 pieces for DPS," and "may possibly be better than a few 110 pieces."

I shouldn't have allowed my annoyance to get the better of me.

Why is everybody so grumpy in here today?

Dunno really, I would just assume keep things nice and cordial. *sigh*

 

[WolvenOne]

Alucrid.

First, yes I know what the primary stats are, please stop insisting that I don't.

Second, at least I'm here to defend myself, please do not insult people whom you don't know, whom aren't present, and not in a position to defend their viewpoints.

You want to argue, fine, argue. But please try to maintain some small semblance of good decorum. There is no need to get personal or derogatory.

 

[Alucrid]

perhaps you shouldn't present those viewpoints as fact when they're simply what you've heard off hand. and there's nothing 'derisive' about that comment, really, if they believe that pentamelds are bis then they do need to do some more research into their class

 

[WolvenOne]

perhaps you shouldn't present those viewpoints as fact when they're simply what you've heard off hand. and there's nothing 'derisive' about that comment, really, if they believe that pentamelds are bis then they do need to do some more research into their class

Even if there were no doubt that you were correct, that does not give you license to take an insulting tone towards people you have not met.

 

[Kagari]

Okay guys, let's all be nice here okay?

 

[XenoRaven]

Alucrid.

First, yes I know what the primary stats are, please stop insisting that I don't.

Second, at least I'm here to defend myself, please do not insult people whom you don't know, whom aren't present, and not in a position to defend their viewpoints.

You want to argue, fine, argue. But please try to maintain some small semblance of good decorum. There is no need to get personal or derogatory.

Maybe I haven't read far enough back, but I haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments directed at you. It seems more like you don't like when people point out flaws in your argument and end up taking it personal. If you are going to get frazzled when people disagree with you, you should probably just stick to talking about the game itself and not the design roadmap.

 

[Jayhawk]

Okay guys, let's all be nice here okay?

Why can't we just settle these arguments with a PvP match with Kagari as PLD?

 

[Isaccard]

Why is everybody so grumpy in here today?

Disagree with and calling out ridiculous arguements = grumpy

 

[Ken]

Okay guys, let's all be nice here okay?

if i was nice and cordial about arguments you might as well call me graverobberx

I don't really think that warrants the dogpile session that certain people here seem to be insisting upon. XD

when you make statements like

Well, I will admit that people cleared T9 a bit sooner than I expected. That's not the end of the world, and the vast, vast, VAST majority of the population hasn't even cleared T6 yet, but it is a subtle miscalculation on the devs part.

Also, again, that wasn't intentional. It was a very small whoopsie on the part of the development team.

you should have something to back yourself up with.

 

[Kagari]

Why can't we just settle these arguments with a PvP match with Kagari as PLD?

I can't guarantee I know what I'm doing though.

 

[Tabris]

Let's just all agree that this content is not easy for us. Who cares how fast blue gartr or CL clears it. Why does that matter to us? It's god darn hard content for us. We got groups learning T9, groups learning T8, groups learning T7, and groups learning T6. None of us have conquered T9 (except that Jmairu guy who posts here).

I'm personally having fun (and sometimes getting a bit frustrated but that makes the payoff that much better) learning these turns. And it's hard for me. Tia, you should know how excited I got when we finally cleared Turn 6. I'll probably feel the same way for T7, and T8, and T9.

I don't know how some groups that have nothing to do with us clearing content fast should affect / diminish our enjoyment?

EDIT - This statement is more directed to Tigerkiddo / K'Tai as it was her comment about coil being so easy that set off this debate.

 

[irfaanator]

if i was nice and cordial about arguments you might as well call me graverobberx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npHDxSvwCE0

 

[Alucrid]

if i was nice and cordial about arguments you might as well call me graverobberx

well i am clean shaven, so that might explain everything

 

[Isaccard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npHDxSvwCE0

/dead

 

[WolvenOne]

*Sigh*

Look, I don't mind if people disagree with me, I am occasionally wrong after all, and it's good to keep me humble.

But really, insulting the competence of individuals whom are not present to defend their actions or opinions, is a bit of a sore spot for me. Heck, I'll occasionally even take up arguments I don't personally believe in, just to play devils advocate on another persons behalf.

So, if we're going to argue, keep things aimed at me, and not at individuals whom aren't here to defend themselves.

 

[SkyOdin]

There is no debate about this. These two things are not at odds. Off-tanks speccing for DPS is something that comes up for turns when they do not have to tank much, if at all, and are better off doing damage, like in turn 8 or turn 9. This "debate" comes down to one very simple question: can your group do this turn with only one tank? If the answer is yes, then the off-tank puts on DPS gear. End of debate.

What is some good high-level DPS gear for off-tanking? I know that I can equip DPS jewelry, but are there any good options for tank-equipable DPS armor?

 

[Alucrid]

*Sigh*

Look, I don't mind if people disagree with me, I am occasionally wrong after all, and it's good to keep me humble.

But really, insulting the competence of individuals whom are not present to defend their actions or opinions, is a bit of a sore spot for me. Heck, I'll occasionally even take up arguments I don't personally believe in, just to play devils advocate on another persons behalf.

So, if we're going to argue, keep things aimed at me, and not at individuals whom aren't here to defend themselves.

"occasionally wrong", I'll give you "occasionally right" about the sands though

still, i guess that's one way to quash an argument. present it as other's and then cry foul when they're not here to 'defend' themselves

 

[Raijinken]

Just two ranks to go and then that weapon is mine...

 

[WolvenOne]

What is some good high-level DPS gear for off-tanking? I know that I can equip DPS jewelry, but are there any good options for tank-equipable DPS armor?

Yeah, though not every piece of DPS Tank armor is going to be available immediately.

For example, the High Allagan Tanking chest is most definitely a Tank DPS piece. However, it only drops in T9.

Another example though, would be the Noct Helm. You'll need to by Accuracy capped in order to use it of course, but if I remember its stats correctly it's definitely a Tank-DPS piece.

 

[WolvenOne]

"occasionally wrong", I'll give you "occasionally right" about the sands though

still, i guess that's one way to quash an argument. present it as other's and then cry foul when they're not here to 'defend' themselves

You could just, deconstruct and counter the argument as you see fit, while leaving other people out of it.

 

[PowerTaxi]

Been having a weird problem where my controller stops working for a second and kicks back in. I know it's not the controller itself because it works fine with all my steam games, it's only FF where it acts up.

Any ideas?

 

[Alucrid]

You could just, deconstruct and counter the argument as you see fit, while leaving other people out of it.

well you've been asked to show how crafted gear is better than 110 gear and haven't delved into specifics, as such the only worthwhile response is to say that anyone who suggests that doesn't understand basic systems in the game

 

[WolvenOne]

well you've been asked to show how crafted gear is better than 110 gear and haven't delved into specifics, as such the only worthwhile response is to say that anyone who suggests that doesn't understand basic systems in the game

I did modify my statement back a bit awhile back, the slight sensationalism in that claim I attribute the annoyance I was feeling as the time. Sometimes my emotions do get the better of me, and when that happens in the middle of an argument I tend to exaggerate slightly.

As it stands though, I don't really care anymore. This has long since become toxic, right wrong or whatever, we should just drop it, otherwise we'll both wear out our welcome.

 

[Ken]

i don't see any toxicity

 

[WolvenOne]

i don't see any toxicity

Perhaps I'm oversensitive to such things, but I'd still advocate dropping the argument for the time being.

 

[Alucrid]

i'll drop it when tiv becomes qhon's waifu

 

[WolvenOne]

i'll drop it when tiv becomes qhon's waifu

Oh lord, we're going to be here forever then! D:

 

[Tabris]

So, if we're going to argue, keep things aimed at me, and not at individuals whom aren't here to defend themselves.

Are you talking about me? I am arguing with Tiggerkiddo who's here.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

I'll come in here as a bard(with the worst itemized soldiery gear between all classes) and say that most crafted gear is better than our ilvl 100 weathered aslong as you put "some" gil into melding, there is no contest however between crafted and high allagan/unweathered even with the terrible stats on some of our gear.

Core armor pieces, high allagan and unweathered will always be better even if the secondaries are subpar. Accessories however, if there were crafted ilvl 90 accs, it would be quite a bit closer depending on piece. There are some really terribly itemized ilvl 110 accs that an ilvl 90 crafted piece could have the potential to either be on par with or even potentially be better than. There are not any ilvl 90 crafted acs in the game yet however, something I would assume may be added in 2.3.