This is quite possibly the worst counter argument you could use. Have you tried to do any fight in this game with a poor connection? They are borderline impossible. The fights rely and executing mechanics precisely with failure meaning a wipe.
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT4| Welcome, PS4 users!
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This is quite possibly the worst counter argument you could use. Have you tried to do any fight in this game with a poor connection? They are borderline impossible. The fights rely and executing mechanics precisely with failure meaning a wipe.
Looks like this will be the first MMO ever in which I actually reach max level. Well at least with my main class Dragoon. Does it make sense to level Marauder to the max or am I good with the skill I got from up to level 15? I know I want a couple of sills from Pugilist as well.
I realise you're not going to eradicate the latency issue entirely, but if you can predict what's coming you can at least try and accommodate for it. If it's reaction based, you might very well be dead (or wiped) without any prior warning.
As I said, I don't think any solution is perfect. I do think that what they have now is a good compromise given the possible problems.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
So the guy basically wants to let ilvl be the only important part by designing boring boss battles (T4, his example, is probably the most boring coil 1)
Also spending hours farming items to be able to do content is better than actually doing content.
Yeah, FF XI player. At this point some ppl just should understand that the game may be not for them.
T1-T4 has been nerfed to levels that most players can do, and T5 still need to get down the mechanics, because every player that is not ready for T5 is not ready for T6. Because getting mechanics down also means understanding your job to the perfection. You need to administer your tank cooldowns on T5, you need to proper damaged as DPS...
But I'm still sure that T5 will be further nerfed, is just not the moment....
I just now that Titan (HM and EX) are some of the best fights on a MMO, yeah it took me weeks (HM) to finish it, but actually made me a better player.
The level 26 cross-class ability from Marauder is Mercy Stroke and is a good skill for DRGs to use to finish off mobs.
As someone whose group has been stuck in Turn 6, I'd say, even if you know your class well, what determines your victory is largely based on competence with mechanics, between Turn 5 and Turn 6. Even one person dying to mechanics can wipe your team, and when you have so many places where you can make errors due to the repetition of the mechanics, it's become almost more important than skill with your class to clear the raids.
Except I've managed to raid in a game like WoW with a 500 ping. I don't think I'd be able to do that in this game. His problem is that no matter what happens you are going to have to put in time to learn the dance regardless of the gear. The downside this creates on the community is that if you can't dance then you can't play. So what are these people supposed to do? What they will do is simply stop playing.
To answer Ken's question, in how many months when people are given iLevel 150 gear, should they be able to steam roll through Second Coil and ignore the mechanics? Sure, why not. I don't exist in the game space alone and some people get a kick out of that.
Not a free pass, but it should get easier. Usually as your raid team gets stronger you can kill adds faster, you can take more hits, etc. and it will generally make the encounter easier. A lot of these encounters (again just from reading about them)seem to have a mechanic where it's an automatic wipe until it's done properly. No amount of hp and dps will make it easier. I may be wrong so please correct me but I don't think any of the new turns are any easier in ilvl115 vs ilvl90 so even when you know the fights the dance never gets easier and it's just as easy to wipe. Now I do t think at ilvl 115 I should be able to faceroll it, but at ilvl 200 I should be able to.
I think caudecus is a good example, with echo and gear you don't really have to feed her slimes. As long as the tanks can seperate them the fight is much easier. If she recombined early chances are you won't be able to keep up with her dmg but the fight is much easier. and eventually you'll be able to outgear even her recombined form. This is the kind of easier I like even if I have to wait a year to do it
I think caudecus is a good example, with echo and gear you don't really have to feed her slimes. As long as the tanks can seperate them the fight is much easier. If she recombined early chances are you won't be able to keep up with her dmg but the fight is much easier. and eventually you'll be able to outgear even her recombined form. This is the kind of easier I like even if I have to wait a year to do it
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
An argument that boils down to "I think stats and gear should be more necessary than skill" is an idiotic argument. Sorry. No. The game should be rewarding those that have a thoughtful approach to fights, not just those that mindlessly grind for the best gear.
Weeks? I'm assuming Titan HM has been nerfed considerably, because I did it on my first try. Maybe I just had a good group. JP servers are full of crazy cyborg level players.
Except that there is no thoughtfulness involved. Primarily only time commitment to learn.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
It was just a couple of weeks after launch, finding a proper pug party was almost impossible for some time.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Even if you learn the fight, you need the skills to be succesful. Is like saying there are no hard bosses in gaming, all you need is time....
Everyone can watch a video and learn the mechanics in a few minutes, deal with these mechanics while properly playing your job is what takes time.
Most parties died on conflag not because they didn't know the mechanics, but because they didn't have the necesary DPS.
Pellegri Testament
Member
It will always be like this aslong as they go with the endgame currency model, which unless the expac changes something, they always will because it holds player retention more than just handing everything out.
All you are doing is proving his point however. There are some people who will never be able to dodge twisters or plumes. Should they be disallowed from seeing content when it is no longer relevant because they can't dodge?
I have some simple questions about the game, if someone could help me I would really appreciate it. Just some things I need to know to stop my OCD before it ruins the game for me.
I started playing it yesterday and REALLY loved it. It gives you the sensation of playing a true (and great) Final Fantasy game. I got to level 10, and noticed that I can change jobs now.
I started as a Conjurer, and pretend to continue playing a support class. Should I level up another classes right now or only do it after maxing (or at least level up a lot more) the Conjurer?
When do I need to worry about getting more rare equipments for my character? Are the quest and shop equipments enough for most of the game?
And is there anything I should worry about the character that could screw things up (like a wrong build)?
Thanks in advance, and I'm sorry if those questions were already answered a lot of times in this thread.
I started playing it yesterday and REALLY loved it. It gives you the sensation of playing a true (and great) Final Fantasy game. I got to level 10, and noticed that I can change jobs now.
I started as a Conjurer, and pretend to continue playing a support class. Should I level up another classes right now or only do it after maxing (or at least level up a lot more) the Conjurer?
When do I need to worry about getting more rare equipments for my character? Are the quest and shop equipments enough for most of the game?
And is there anything I should worry about the character that could screw things up (like a wrong build)?
Thanks in advance, and I'm sorry if those questions were already answered a lot of times in this thread.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
T5 have been not fully nerfed...yet. I think is too soon to open the gates for T5.
The whole article works under the premise that no further nerfs are gonna happen.
According to http://xivsoul.com/world/Ultros Ultros gender distribution looks like this:
Special equipment doesn't exactly show up until you're partying in dungeons, and even then equipment for your role will most likely go to you. It does not hurt to grab them. Mostly you don't need to buy shop equipment because the quests and dungeons are generous.
For conjurer, your attribute points should all go into Mind. However, even if you mess that up, there is an item you can obtain later on to reset your attribute points, so you can reallocate them.
Wat. I'm not seeing the evidence for this.
You don't need to level up another class yet, but if you want to progress from Conjurer to White Mage, you will need to level Arcanist to 15 (later on).
Special equipment doesn't exactly show up until you're partying in dungeons, and even then equipment for your role will most likely go to you. It does not hurt to grab them. Mostly you don't need to buy shop equipment because the quests and dungeons are generous.
For conjurer, your attribute points should all go into Mind. However, even if you mess that up, there is an item you can obtain later on to reset your attribute points, so you can reallocate them.
I wish second coil was just dps and dodge
crackbabyjr
Member
I wish it was just DPS.
L1+R3 then move the mouse cursor to the top right corner of the chat box and left click drag like you would on a pc.
The worst thing that can happen is that you place some points in a wrong stat, but it can be fixed with 10k seals and it barely matters until 50, so don't worry.
You'll have to level at least Arcanist to 15 to unlock White Mage. You'll also need to level Thaumaturge to 24 for Swiftcast when you reach 50, but until then don't bother (unless you want to try the class, in that case go for it, it's pretty good skill to have while levelling) If you are worried WHM/Conjurer won't be able to do some things in the game because it's a "support" class fear not, all classes pretty much play the same when it comes to open-world content. A WHM can solo the same mobs a DRG or a WAR can.
Don't bother buying stuff while levelling, dungeons and quest equipment is perfectly fine. Just be sure to have your weapon always upgraded, magic damage is VERY important when it comes to healing, and you don't want to be one of those WHM who heal Cutter's Cry in a level 15 weapon.
Hmmm... that's a little more workable. I'll try it out next time I am on.
Friend of mine plays via a cellphone connection in the UK, he's beaten T4 and primals up to Ilfrit EX.
Yeah, I, too hate Stone Vigil. I had to do it last night for my book, also. Queued into a party in progress... right at the beginning. 15 minutes in. Tank and a DPS had left right at the beginning. A tank finally jumped in right as the healer left (stupid lala), then we finally got a healer and proceeded to destroy the place. Oh, and our healer died during the final boss and I had to heal the tank like a boss. Yay Physick.
Bomber Bob
Banned
cellphone connections are crazy good nowadays
Augemitbutter
Member
didn't SV and AV get nerfed? it seems even square can't break their best dungeons. people have to cry more until they turn them into some browser or cell phone level crap. like Bray HM.
Matt Attack
Member
Got my relic today and upgraded it to Zenith. Titan HM was a pain, I thought I did a pretty good job but we kept wiping anyway, it took us a few tries at 50% echo lol.
I did a few fates to try to get an atma before realizing that I hate doing fates alone and atmas probably suck.
I did a few fates to try to get an atma before realizing that I hate doing fates alone and atmas probably suck.
crazygambit
Member
I upgraded my relic to Zenith last night as well. Do all FATEs in the region have the same chance of dropping an atma? 'Cause some are super easy while others are pretty hard to do alone.
Aw!!! Poor Jimmy sucks at the game but still wants to see the content. Whatever should we do?? After all he paid his money didn't he?
(Not a dig at you by the way)
Yes, all fates have the same change, as far as it's known. Try to find a pf atma party, even if you don't join it you know there are some other people doing them in that area.
I don't know if it got nerfed or not, but SV isn't awful because it's hard, it's awful because it's borrrrring and feels like it takes forever. It's just tough enough that if your tank and/or healer suck you're maybe going to have problems, but not difficult enough to demand much more than really basic button-mashing most of the time.
So to slog through the whole boring thing only to not have it count because of something I couldn't really do much about in the last few seconds of the last fight is really, really irritating (especially because that was the most interesting part of the entire run.) Now I have to go back and do the whole set of hallways again, and hope that I don't get screwed in the last 15 seconds of the dungeon.
Plus there's nothing more annoying than queuing for SV and AV only to have the tank and/or healer drop immediately usually causing the other one to drop leaving both dps sitting there for 4 min before they drop too. Even tho there's no penalty I then have to sit in queue for another 20 min. This for me only happened with these 2 dungeons and maybe CC sometimes
Augemitbutter
Member
i hope you didn't button mash your way to 50. what's boring to you? the length, the dungeon design, or the encounters? if you failed because people didn't pull their weight, i'd say the dungeon is pretty well designed. i just did SV for my book a few days ago. two people were dead at the last boss. i was able to tank the boss without heals at 35%-0%. wasn't too tough.
cultureculture
Member
I'm not really sure why people keep saying Stone Vigil is boring. It's not like the other low level dungeons are much faster, really. I quite like it, it just requires you to pace yourself and keep a careful eye on positioning and patrollers, and the difficulty is set just right. Actually, I particularly enjoy tanking Stone Vigil because to this day I always overlook at least one patrolling aevis and misjudge where the spawn points for ice sprites are then SHAZAM there's dragons and ice bastards all over the place and then I put on some defensive buffs and berserk and bloodbath and my shades and go to town and I'm like BANG, ZOOM, RIGHT TO THE MOON and the healer is like oh my god the tank's HP is going UP and the BLM is throwing out Fire IIs and the BRD is going PEW PEW PEW and there's a DRG who's not even in the party but he's there lying on the floor anyway and then I get all the commends and a sweet-looking weapon for glamour, in an ideal world.
A++ dungeon, would tank again.
A++ dungeon, would tank again.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
I love Stone Vigil, tbh. I've just been running it so much as WAR trying to get the axe that drops there for glamour, so I'm rather tired of it at this point. But I'm really looking forward to the HM version because, thematically, it's probably my favorite dungeon of all. Snow, a ruined castle, and lots of dragons. What's not to love?
We need more dungeons like Qarn. In that dungeon I felt like the whole party was under strain, not just at the bosses but even in between them. The first boss was a boss among boss. The Teratatour was such a hard-a*rse. That was possibly my favourite dungeon run in the game so far. We even had two people quit after failing the first boss a few times but reinforcements arrived. It wasn't the whole neat arrangement of tanking, healing and DPS. Everyone was just doing what they had to do to survive and get through. Ah good times.
cultureculture
Member
One thing that I like from Qarn is that cheeky Facer that turns up for a couple of seconds every now and then that drops bonus treasure if you kill it. Wish more dungeons had nice little side gimmicks like that.
devious.one
Member
Really interested in seeing how this 'Sightseeing Log' pans out.
Also, reading FC chat last night, a few people didn't know about the Myth increase coming in 2.28:
Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XIV Q&A said:
Also, reading FC chat last night, a few people didn't know about the Myth increase coming in 2.28:
Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XIV Q&A said:
+1
This dropped for me the other day (DR run only, I hadn't been looking for it), but I think ultimately I'll be glamouring the Ifrit axe.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
All low levels dungeons, equally sucks for me, because all of them takes a lot of time.
(well, not exactly, 15-30 dungeons even more because with the limited set of skills, they are not only slow but also boring as fuck)
(well, not exactly, 15-30 dungeons even more because with the limited set of skills, they are not only slow but also boring as fuck)
Pankratous
Member
How scared should I be of making mistakes during HM Garuda? Fight doesn't look too hard but I fear one mistake and I'll have 7 pissed off people.
What job?
Don't worry too much. The fight gets significantly easier with gear, just make sure you've reviewed what to do and if you make a mistake try not to make the same mistake again. The best thing you can do is to try your hardest.
Shouta
Member
Very good arguments, honestly. I made the same observations and have had the same sentiments since Coil 1 about it and is the reason why I lost interest in the game. When Patch hit, I couldn't be bothered to try new content because of that, lol.
They have slightly rose-tinted nostalgia for FFXI but they do recognize a lot of its failings through its lifetime. It works well as a framing the argument and to show different principles in design.
When simplified, yes. It's a little more nuanced than that though.
Battles rely on the mechanics to the point that if you can't cope with it, it doesn't matter how how good you are at your job, you will fail. While having these mechanics is great, it's affected the overall design of the game to a significant degree.
The "Team Jump Rope" explanation is perfect for what the design philosophy is currently. Everyone is jumping the same rope and if you can't get the timing of when the rope is coming, you messed up for everyone, even if all the other members are doing it perfectly. There's no wiggle room and no recovery to win fights in the current system. You mess up a section, it's out of the pool to restart, lol.
That's promoted the attitude of kicking folks that make minor mistakes or if they haven't learned/practice the fight and a result, makes it harder for non-hardcore players to move from the casual or mainstream groups into the hardcore crowd. The other issues they discuss basically combine and exacerbate this.
Probably really really for you considering the time you posted but that's not what they're saying. By using mechanics as a driving force for the game, you take an element of player knowledge of their job and class out and it focuses on how well they've learned they deal with a mechanic instead. T4 in Coil 1 is the perfect example of how mechanics can work in a fashion that emphasizes the player's skill and gear.
Where as say the Primals are very mechanics focused with attack rotations and insta-death. Regardless of how well you play or how good your gear is, you can usually get killed by not respecting the mechanics of the fight. Can't dodge Titan's plumes? gonna get blown up and etc.
Basically, they're advocating a design principle that allows players to become more effective as they grow with their job instead of just learning individual tricks for every fight. Simply making a fight strong is one way of thinking of it but it's not the basis of the concept, I think.
Combination of all three, TBH. The whole thing feels very same-y; you could chop up most of the dungeon and rearrange it and it wouldn't matter because there's no feel of progression or change during the whole thing. Gray stone hall, gray stone room, hall, some stairs, etc. The trash takes a while to die, but isn't tricky and doesn't do anything interesting. There's just a lot of it in interchangeable corridors and rooms. The bosses are okay, but largely unremarkable (CC has Chimera, which saves the dungeon for me; SV's bosses aren't on that level); I don't understand how a dungeon full of dragons comes off as ultimately so bland. SV winds up in this area where it's as samey to run as Tam-Tara, but at least with Tam-Tara I have aggro maintenance to keep me awake (especially with a low-level tank I can hop from target to target trying to balance out hate while still doing damage.) But by SV tanks can hold aggro and I have Quelling strikes, so... Meh. Maybe it's more fun for other classes? But for me, pass.
People dying on the boss due to stupidity or to trash because the tank decides he should be able to pull it like Bray doesn't make the dungeon good--it certainly doesn't make it inherently bad, but basic mechanics don't elevate it beyond boredom. It means it's usually frustrating with a bad group and totally uneventful with a good one. I'd argue the book thing is shitty design because if I'm in that situation again, I'm better off dying ASAP and forcing the whole team take a second crack at it, instead of trying to scratch out a victory and risking a win shortly after I'm dead.
All I really know is that SV is tied with Totorak for least favorite roulette assignment and I can't believe I'm going to voluntarily queue for it two days in a row.
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