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Final Fantasy XIV |OT5| All You Need is Gil
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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Aeriscloud
Banned
Best pony in the game.
Yeah but what's it riding?
On a certain level, I feel like Yoshi underestimated how toxic American gamers are. Like, I see thetrin's anecdotal accounts of hunts being fine on the JP servers because JP players are probably more inclined towards civility and cooperation. But from my experiences in WoW, EVE and various other MMOs, such a system is simply not sustainable for a populace as greedy and self-centered as your typical NA player.
Augemitbutter
Member
are you lvl 23 now?
Best pony in the game.
you need a real men's horse. i've never seen any of these drop. then again, my fc barely does any primal farming.
I've heard that there's plenty of hard feelings, early pulls, and trolling on Japanese servers, there are just fewer shouts about it. Culturally they're just a little less likely to be vocal over there, that doesn't mean they don't have the same emotions.
The thing with sands... Okay, so I'm playing SCH and WHM, right? Essentially I need 2 complete sets, both soldiery and HA for best in slot. Without hunts, expecting a scholar to have six sands before 2.4 is just completely bollocks. And if we were actually expected to farm Syrcus Tower for that, this line of thinking can go fuck right off. although now we clear t8 and we go like "sands? eh fuck sands we have a whole desert of those" //roflesia//
They might not have intended for hunts to work like this but I think ultimately it worked out for the better. What they should do is recognize AS are just as much of a currency as tomestones, remove tomestones from hunts and add AS to other forms of content. It's too late to move in any other direction anyway.
And for 2.4, come up with a gear token system that doesn't blow or itemization that doesn't make me wanna go
They might not have intended for hunts to work like this but I think ultimately it worked out for the better. What they should do is recognize AS are just as much of a currency as tomestones, remove tomestones from hunts and add AS to other forms of content. It's too late to move in any other direction anyway.
And for 2.4, come up with a gear token system that doesn't blow or itemization that doesn't make me wanna go
I had no idea this was in the objectives of the design documents for 2.3! How dare they.
I'm not even close to i110 right now and I think I'll be okay come 2.4. I'm also not sure when personal goals suddenly required full accomodation by the game.
protip you wont need full i110 or bis to comfortably get into coil3
If you had to be the first to claim it then people would split up and camp all known spawn points. And there'd be 50 people at each one. Would be a nightmare.
your darklight argument is silly because myth got you i90 gear as that was the guaranteed progression in place for all players. the real question is if you can beat T10 in full i100 (which I'm sure you can).
as for itemization, secondary stats dont make or break a player's performance. yes it's unfortunate if you don't have many i110 pieces due to sand rolling rules or coil RNG isn't nice to you but you'll ok riding on steady progression in the form of unweathered gear and hopefully see those i110 upgrades over time. at the same time I do agree RNG stinks but what can you do.
and yeah i'm changing the argument from "should sands be in hunts" to "you shouldn't try to bend game design to conform to your goals."
This is a slippery slope because if things get too impenetrable for most players they would just start quitting out of frustration. That's why hunts exist to begin with, to give people who can't do more than target a mob and press a couple of buttons some way of progression. If the developers didn't expect this to happen the moment they put Sands/Oils into vendor list, they are either lying or shortsighted. Also, can I criticize game design without it counting as "trying to bend it"? Please tell me if I go too far in some places.
theSlacker
Member
Et tu Pell?
Here is the main thing for me. I would take all the drama in the world to have as active as a world as we have now from hunts. Drama isn't a bad thing, and the drama from this isn't all that severe even. Now if it worked like FF11 NMs I could see why people would hate it since you would lose all chance of getting things from hunts if someone else got there first. Turning hunts into just another thing you activate and then only you get to attack is terrible. Actual unique monsters that have random spawn points and make people search the world to find is great.
Whether or not they give too much of a reward is debatable as well, and you will have people on both sides of that. I still hold that it was a great way to let people get the same ilvl gear as raiding stuff that was missed when they made tomes not just give it straight away like with myth. The extra step to get that ilvl works really well with hunts and the only bad thing is that hunts didn't come at the same time as sol tomes to make it so it was there from the start. I however never raided for the gear, but because I enjoyed the people I was doing it with, and liked beating encounters/seeing the story. I fully understand why people who did it for other reasons feel differently and don't look down on that. Just don't think maintaining the sanctity of raid level gear matters as much in this specific game where content patches make the last tier 100% irrelevant really fast. If this was a game where you had to always do the last tier of raiding before moving on to any kind of higher ilvl gear I would understand that more.
I also consider whatever the intentions the developers had for hunts as irrelevant to my position. Much like how I wouldn't expect Kagari to suddenly be okay with how hunts work if Yoship said they were working as intended. If Bs and As are suddenly turned into something like treasure maps where you need a mark to make them spawn that would be terrible for me as that fundamentally changes how they work and moves them away from the good I saw in them. Even though I think the rewards are fine just readjusting that would be a much better change then making them force spawn or setting a cap on seals.
which then begs the question of what they need the gear for and if they'll keep subbing once they hit full i110 in a week (if you frame it as an argument for player retention of those types of players). but i feel we're going to far off the topic at hand so eh!
ideally they'd just release a lot of really good and fun content for those players but i suppose resource limitation is a factor.
i think zones were more continuously populated/active during the atma farm hype than hunts which is really just a mobile zerg across multiple zones rather than one (like the island of Orr from GW2). yeah you have scouts across different zones but those usually don't amount to more than a handful with the rest waiting for LS feed to come.
of course the activity levels of atma farms aren't as apparent as hunts since everyone had so many different locations to attend to, even within the same zone.
i do think the idea of hunts is cool but i can't really praise a zergfest.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Honestly the books maybe helped people get out into the world too, even though some of those FATE's got annoying.
R_thanatos
Member
Maybe if dragoon knew that they are DPS and not tanks , this wouldn't happen so often
JUST SAYING.
Damn i was ready to get angry untill i saw your spoiler...
theSlacker
Member
That all may be true, and is an interesting point. Over the same time frame I would say that atma farming died down faster though. The first week or so I think that Hunt farmers were still spread out across all the zones before spawn patterns became known, and the big atma farm rush didn't last much longer then that. Some other things to consider relating to that as well;
People could stay in single zones because every zone had a large amount of fates to continue to farm. A while back I suggested making Bs spawn much faster and making there be a lot more of them, making it so that a party could choose to just stick to a zone and search for Bs unless a higher rank was called out. Hunts are also content that is built to last and it's own new system, while atmas stayed tied to something that was already in place. You can remove atmas and there would have been no new content from that. In 3 months if someone wants to farm their zodiac weapon there isn't going to be a big fate farm scene and making a full 8 man party to stay in the specific zones where each atma drops will be hard. Getting alex from hunts however may actually be easier when stuff dies down as you can make a group and just go where the As are still and get the same level of speed as you can right now. Moreover hunts will still be a separate system that exists in the world adding unique monsters to the environment in random spots even if people aren't killing them, something that the game really has a lack of.
The zergfest stuff can be a problem, but I really can't see a way to fix that that would leave the other benefits that hunts have to the game intact. Make it so they work on a claim system and a ton of people can't attack? Their rewards would now be far too low, and would cause even more people to rage out since no one in this game seems to know how to deal with competitive content already. Change them to a forced spawn deal like maps/leves? This completely negates the added flavor granted to the gameworld, and encroaches into already in place systems, making hunts redundant. Add mechanics like counter measures or the thing the mor dhona S does to every hunt maybe? I really don't know.
yeah atma itself was a terrible RNG grind that i hope we never see again but what it did for the world was interesting and replicating that aspect of it longer term would be worthwhile imo, especially when you consider that it actually had level 50s interacting wtih lowbies because the latter could help gain FATE credit too.
i'd reply to the rest of your post but i'm too sleepy. maybe tomorrow.
I'm on PS3. Don't complain about how without hunts you can't get six sands. It's hard for me to do hunts when even now in frontlines I have to wait 30 seconds for all of my party members to pop in to view so I can Stoneskin them. So I don't do them, and my ilvl probably lags behind those of my static.
So what? I try to play better and compensate through skill and study (doesn't always work, but hey). Loot isn't the end of all things. You don't need to be full ilvl 110 other than to brag about it.
This is not what it's all about though?
So do I. I literally spent hours on researching T9 this week so I don't shit the bed later today. I don't understand your argument here. It's hard for you to play because you're on a PS3 so I shouldn't complain about game design frustrating me on an occasion? I... what.
Wanting to get better at the game is a natural desire that comes from the way the game is designed. You don't need top gear, but it sure is goddamn nice to have it (and if you're attempting Savage you'll probably actually need it for real, along with some 2.3 accessories which cost an arm and a leg or hours and hours of crafting). The attitude of "this is impossible to do for me so it's unnecessary" is defeatist.
Going back to my original argument that without hunts I can't gear up like I want to - the entire purpose of lockouts is to keep people coming back to the game and paying the subscription. That's really all there is to it. So I, and every player, should welcome a system that lets you step over that. I play for story. I play for clears. I play for fun of taking up a challenge. But even with all those things present it's still frustrating when you put in all the effort you can and you still have nothing to show for it, even if it's just bragging rights. Unlocking the unweathering in this way in 2.3 makes sense from game design perspective. Even if it's not what developers intended. Even if it uncovered a side of the community that most would prefer not to see.
Let me state my problem more clearly.
This isn't a design fault because I'd be lagging behind in ilvl.
This is a design fault because my WHM got geared up so much faster than my SCH it didn't make any god damn sense, just because SCH gear is on a different kind of system.
Soldiery gear is unbalanced. That's the design fault. In fact an argument could be made that hunts made the balance tip way to the other side (I cringe every time I see a WHM in full unweathered soldiery).
Okay I'm done with editing this post.
Actually, from a WHM standpoint I don't think the MP recovery is useless at all. Given how quickly damage spits out on other healers (if I'm not getting hit) or on me, I use Cure 2 a lot more liberally in Frontlines. Top that with Medica 2 and my MP actually does get dangerously low. I use Mana Draw quite often.
No, what you were whining about was that you thought Square was crazy to expect scholars to have to get six sands before 2.4 without hunts. But the thing is, they weren't expecting you to get six sands before 2.4 without hunts. Given the random loot drops I'm quite sure they didn't expect you to be ilvl110 at 2.4. If they consider players that don't do coil, they expect you to be ilvl100 and maybe even a bit lower. What you are doing is complaining that your ilvl would have been lower than others without hunts.
And my answer is that it's wrong to think of it as a design fault when the whole point of the design is to keep you playing longer, and continuously beating coil and be lucky enough to get sands. It's petty to bitch about how you couldn't have gotten sands without hunts under the pretense of 'design fault' when you're really just discontent with lagging behind everyone else in gear.
He he. I love the fact that I've been away from this thread for weeks and I get back and we are still talking about hunts.
Personally I think the basic structure of the hunts is fine. I think changing them into treasure map or leeve type quests would change the structure of what they are too much. They just need to relieve the pressure. It's really nice being able to hunt without the Zerg Horde being there because then you can actually enjoy the fight. They just need to curtail the Zerg Horde. The only way that seems logical to me is the reduce the award slightly so people aren't so damn hungry for them.
Personally I think the basic structure of the hunts is fine. I think changing them into treasure map or leeve type quests would change the structure of what they are too much. They just need to relieve the pressure. It's really nice being able to hunt without the Zerg Horde being there because then you can actually enjoy the fight. They just need to curtail the Zerg Horde. The only way that seems logical to me is the reduce the award slightly so people aren't so damn hungry for them.
I don't understand this. Are you just upset that you don't have SCH 2.2 BIS yet?
Since I play WHM/SCH also, what I can say to you is that no, your WHM did not gear up a lot faster than your SCH. The so-called stat weights that indicate SCH should gun for CRIT AT ALL TIMES are the work of people who run simulations, but there's no official statement from SE devs saying, "Yeah, crit works best for scholar". Of the SCH abilities, only Adloqium benefits from having higher crit, so stacking the hell out of crit to benefit that one ability is somewhat dumb given the diminishing returns on crit.
You're looking at the "best in slot" gear rigidly and complaining that your WHM got geared faster than your SCH because you aren't leaking crit from your ears. However, as the game is both of them can wear the same gear, and good judgement and play will outweigh any crit points you can seize from sands gear. Moreover, as you play more endgame you should be coming to the realization the benefits of the other secondary stats. Determination is good for both healers, and for SCH even spell speed can be worth somethinggetting that shield off faster than the boss attack, etc. Piety can be good if you're the type that hemorrhages Adlo/Succor.
But you're entrenched in this idea that the 14 devs made a 'design fault' in making the best gear with determination "easier to obtain" than the best gear with crit. Because you can't gear up like you WANT to, it's a design fault. Because you can't get the ice cream flavor you WANT, when there's other good, viable ice cream flavors available, it's a design fault.
Go ahead and get thousands of seals from A/S rank hunts on a PS3 before telling me that that attitude is defeatist.
People need to master the "Art of One Class Makoto".
The irresistible urge to crater one of the truly unique features about the game? =P
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
That sand and oil thing is terrible.
You don't remove an incentive to so something when the players figure out a better way. This is the same hissyfit bullshit the FFXI developers played when Ninja job wasn't used like they intended it to.
Edit:
Oh hey, that patch list isn't real. I feel silly.
You don't remove an incentive to so something when the players figure out a better way. This is the same hissyfit bullshit the FFXI developers played when Ninja job wasn't used like they intended it to.
Edit:
Oh hey, that patch list isn't real. I feel silly.
darkblade77
Member
Gonna add to this that going for BiS itself is largely not relevant in XIV encounters; aggregate ilvl matters, but if the fights come down to you or multiple people needing 'that edge' that optimizing itemization gives you, then the problem is likely not the gear.
I don't think any encounter in this game has ever been designed specifically for having BiS gear, not even Savage Coil.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
That ship has sailed, they could have added a merit system to really bolster a master one class scenario, but with jobs/classes changed on a whim removed that part
Gtrimm Grandiron's got you beat in the "One Trick Pony" category.
crackbabyjr
Member
I don't think so, it took him a year to get quelling strikes. At least Grimm has some 50 DoH and DoL as well.
If I had to guess from what YoshiP said in that interview yesterday I would say that they are going to make hunts instanced similar to treasure boxes. The idea would be, that you would invite more players into your party to help and the higher rank the hunt the more people you'd have to invite. Such a big overhaul would explain why it took so long- plus it may not be a coincidence that the ability to put together full alliances is also coming this patch. For S ranks you could put together a full 24 man alliance.
Please note: I am probably totally wrong and they just have tweaks to HP and rewards in mind.
Please note: I am probably totally wrong and they just have tweaks to HP and rewards in mind.
Possibly.
However, see below.
Hey, my Miner is Level 50!
...That's something...right?
Random drop in, but holy god the soundtrack for this game is incredible. I was actually listening to other music in my iTunes and it auto kicked over. Just amazing. Been listening with my HD-700s and it's bliss!
Making me want to jump back in. My last character was level 40, but I never got beyond that. :/
Making me want to jump back in. My last character was level 40, but I never got beyond that. :/
He he. I love the fact that I've been away from this thread for weeks and I get back and we are still talking about hunts.
In my short time here, I've come to expect that Hunts are "the" complaint.
Every thread has their thing!
irfaanator
Banned
making tanks do more work by not getting those quelling strikes yo.
at least grimm probably has foresight lol
DarknessTear
Banned
I only intended on playing Paladin, then I watched someone play Monk and got really interested. It helped that I really liked Renault's Gryphonskin gear. Floodgates opened from there. Also, I recently leveled FSH to 50 and I have to say... one of the best parts of the game for me right now is fishing. Really enjoying it.
P.S. Level WAR at least, Grimm. You might like it more than Paladin... just sayin'. Then level Monk, because the world needs more tankmonks. Okay, I know I'm asking for too much.
P.S. Level WAR at least, Grimm. You might like it more than Paladin... just sayin'. Then level Monk, because the world needs more tankmonks. Okay, I know I'm asking for too much.
So how are Scholars when it comes to healing classes? I'm building up a Arcanist right now and plan to try to master one job as healer since it's usually the roll I most like playing and possibly making myself a DPS class later just to cover other bases. Was just wondering what the differences are between a Scholar and a White Mage.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Scholars are fun to play, White Mages are boring. Generally want both though, WHM does Medica 2 group healing while Scholar keeps the tank alive and heal random spikes of damage via the pet. They have different mechanics, I preferred playing my Scholar a lot more than WHM, I hated WHM in fact, especially the whole running out of mana thing which might have been fixed by now. Never run out of mana as Scholar, unless your WHM died and you're not spamming the crappy aoe heal to keep people up. Much more fun in dungeons and stuff too, since you can more or less play like a damage arcanist and let the pet handle most of the healing, only dropping some instant heals here and there as needed.
One of the major factors of WHM play is mana management. "Running out of mana" meant you were overspending and not optimizing your play.
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