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Final Fantasy XIV |OT5| All You Need is Gil

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S

scy

Member
PhillipCostigan said:
Is this a common thing?
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I eagerly await the Stone Vigil deaths hohohoho
I'm going to derp myself into a corner

Ken said:
shift+F = focus target can help if you dont see messages for whatever reason

never had that happen to me th o
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How would Focus Target help with missing the on-screen message? Or do you just mean to get an extra target bar + cast bar for this?

Anyway, the only missed message I saw was when he got stunned right before voicing so I dunno if it was some weird LoS issue or ... something else for the DPS. I'll probably try the dungeon as a DPS and see if the same thing happens to me.
 
H

HylianScribe

Member
Jayhawk said:
Ooh, there will be a Ramuh challenge and a frontlines event at TGS. I hope the JPs carry me to victory, so I can fake it 'til I make it.
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You mean at TGS like the Titan challenge at PAX Prime in 2013, Leviathan at E3 2014, and Levi/Ramuh at GamesCom 2014? Or something online for all of us?
 
J

Jayhawk

Member
Mike D said:
You mean at TGS like the Titan challenge at PAX Prime in 2013, Leviathan at E3 2014, and Levi/Ramuh at GamesCom 2014? Or something online for all of us?
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Physically at TGS.

In other news...

lbPzwKl.jpg
 
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TheMink

Member
Im curious, whats the best way to grind? I've really enjoyed doing dungeons using the duty thing that just gives you whatever, while i wait i do a couple fates. But is that really the best way?
I'm lvl 30 btw.
 
Mr Nash

Mr Nash

square pies = communism
TheMink said:
Im curious, whats the best way to grind? I've really enjoyed doing dungeons using the duty thing that just gives you whatever, while i wait i do a couple fates. But is that really the best way?
I'm lvl 30 btw.
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Don't forget to work that Challenge Log as well. It resets every week! =D
 
K

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Backburner:

Finishing ALC, BSM and ARM off.
Finishing MIN
Gearing them slowly but surely.
Finishing Animus.

After that? I shall rest. Then work on BRD or something until 2.4. Then join the Allied Shinobi Force!
 
T

tiggerkiddo

Member
TheMink said:
Im curious, whats the best way to grind? I've really enjoyed doing dungeons using the duty thing that just gives you whatever, while i wait i do a couple fates. But is that really the best way?
I'm lvl 30 btw.
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Do dungeons and FATE's, guildhests can help as well. Don't neglect your hunting log either.
 
K

Ken

Member
scy said:
How would Focus Target help with missing the on-screen message? Or do you just mean to get an extra target bar + cast bar for this?.
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You would get the cast bar on the screen at all times. There's a later chimera fight that has the same mechanics but you don't get a message. Just spot Dragon's and Ram's voice being cast and react I guess? :eek:

Pretty sure the thing your group encountered was a glitch though. Hopefully doesn't happen again but if it does that's one method to get around it.
 
S

scy

Member
Oh, okay. Was just wondering if there was some focus target related thing that fixed the message.

I tank so I'm used to watching the bar for interrupts anyway.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Last night I decided to do a Syrcus run on my SMN, hoping that either caster gear might drop, since I need more i100 gear for my SMN at the moment.

Lo and behold, the DRG helm from Amon that I've never ever seen drop, drops. I'm completely deflated. I can only roll greed on it, and the DRG in the party rolls need, and wins it with a 21.

At this point, I was pissed. I'd never seen the DRG helm drop on any of my runs, and it was one of the last slots on my DRG I needed to fill with i100 gear.

I finished the run, complained a bit, and went right back in; this time, on my DRG. I didn't expect the helm to drop again, but I knew at this point that if DRG gear dropped, I could need it, and caster gear tends to go unrolled a lot of the time on Yojimbo, leaving me open for an easy greed.

Then the unthinkable happened: The DRG helm dropped again. I rolled need as the only DRG in the party, and I get it! Finally, after weeks, I finally have the Syrcus DRG helm!

BwnZ2r6CIAE6rpq.jpg


With the soldiery I got from the run, I also bought an i100 accessory for my SMN, and ended the day feeling good.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
The thing with Coil is that stress and effort required for the challenge simply do not compare to the reward (“Why do you raid? For NUMBERS of course!“) especially since you can gain largely the same NUMBERS through other less taxing means and only SCOB itself needs numbers that can‘t be given by myth. Ramuh got hit by this hard. So this leaves people who enjoy doing content which is a much smaller group than you‘d expect and an even smaller group that just wants to be there first. So raiding isn‘t special. It‘s just an option. This has both its merits and demerits but it‘s very easy to see that if clearing takes you not 100 minutes a week but hours for months on end most just wouldn't bother.
 
B

BadRNG

Member
Frumix said:
The thing with Coil is that stress and effort required for the challenge simply do not compare to the reward (“Why do you raid? For NUMBERS of course!“) especially since you can gain largely the same NUMBERS through other less taxing means and only SCOB itself needs numbers that can‘t be given by myth. Ramuh got hit by this hard. So this leaves people who enjoy doing content which is a much smaller group than you‘d expect and an even smaller group that just wants to be there first. So raiding isn‘t special. It‘s just an option. This has both its merits and demerits but it‘s very easy to see that if clearing takes you not 100 minutes a week but hours for months on end most just wouldn't bother.
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I really don't think the reward is the biggest issue, even if they did something crazy like make third coil's gear 30ilevels above everything else, you wouldn't see an explosion of people raiding. It's just a time/schedule thing.. Finding 7 other people who a, don't suck, and b, can play regularly together at same times is tough. Lockouts further complicate things.

I also think you are underselling the appeal of raids besides gear. Most people who are raiding are doing so because they enjoy it, I mean once you actually can beat the content you don't even need the gear anymore. It still gives you a sense of progression but the biggest draw is that feeling after finally achieving that first kill. It's really not limited to raiding either, it's just the sense of accomplishment when you finally pass some roadbloack. Whether that be Titan, Twintania, or Nael. Yeah it can be frustrating learning and wiping, but that just makes it all the sweeter when you finish it, and all players have likely felt that way at some point while playing. That is the true carrot on the stick imo, and it goes far beyond whatever stat points you get.

Outside of the time/lockout restraints, the only real gameplay factor that might deter people is just how strict/severe mechanics have gotten with second coil, or how many different ones there are for each encounter. It really is way beyond anything in first coil, and it doesn't help that on top of the half dozen party wipe mechanics per fight the two highest tiers are also unnecessarily long slogs. Especially T9. I really think Titan is one of the best designed fights in the game, as even though it is on the longer side the whole fight just builds on itself, it's not throwing 42 different mechanics at you every 20% of his hp. In comparison you got something like T9 where every new phase is almost like an entirely new encounter by itself. That gets really frustrating when you gotta repeatedly do the encounter over and over and over to get to the part you need to learn.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
BadRNG said:
I really don't think the reward is the biggest issue, even if they did something crazy like make third coil's gear 30ilevels above everything else, you wouldn't see an explosion of people raiding. It's just a time/schedule thing.. Finding 7 other people who a, don't suck, and b, can play regularly together at same times is tough. Lockouts further complicate things.

I also think you are underselling the appeal of raids besides gear. Most people who are raiding are doing so because they enjoy it, I mean once you actually can beat the content you don't even need the gear anymore. It still gives you a sense of progression but the biggest draw is that feeling after finally achieving that first kill. It's really not limited to raiding either, it's just the sense of accomplishment when you finally pass some roadbloack. Whether that be Titan, Twintania, or Nael. Yeah it can be frustrating learning and wiping, but that just makes it all the sweeter when you finish it, and all players have likely felt that way at some point while playing. That is the true carrot on the stick imo, and it goes far beyond whatever stat points you get.

Outside of the time/lockout restraints, the only real gameplay factor that might deter people is just how strict/severe mechanics have gotten with second coil, or how many different ones there are for each encounter. It really is way beyond anything in first coil, and it doesn't help that on top of the half dozen party wipe mechanics per fight the two highest tiers are also unnecessarily long slogs. Especially T9. I really think Titan is one of the best designed fights in the game, as even though it is on the longer side the whole fight just builds on itself, it's not throwing 42 different mechanics at you every 20% of his hp. In comparison you got something like T9 where every new phase is almost like an entirely new encounter by itself. That gets really frustrating when you gotta repeatedly do the encounter over and over and over to get to the part you need to learn.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I was replying on mobile so I made my points concise, guess you could say I was phoning it in.

I consider scheduling and group management to be primary sources of stress in this case. Many mid-core people will tell you, hardest part is to find a group, and in many cases this is just so unbelievably true. So you need to clear out a schedule, find competent people who can also manage that schedule, but why? Why all that effort in the first place when the rest of the game can be done solo or in matchmaking?

Roadblock appeal... The appeal of the "getting it right for the first time" has been significantly mired for me personally because I am usually among the first in a group who catches onto the mechanics. The only time I felt like I put in all of my effort and got there was learning T9 with a group that already knew it. I guess it's just me though. But going back to my original argument is that the group of people that enjoys this kind of challenge is not that big in this game in the first place. I know a lot of people have expressed that they are content with being on the more casual side, doing hunts, getting their token gear, fishing, crafting, whatever, and that raiding does not appeal to them. I think this group of people is actually a majority.

The game presents a challenge and it's up to players to decide if they're great enough to jump that wall. While it's true that the act of getting to jump the wall might be enjoyable in itself, some walls feel so tall for people it feels like trying to jump them simply defeats the purpose. Bottom line, it's a balance of resource and reward, and resources here can be both physical and mental, and reward here can be both tangible and emotional. And I argue that for the majority of the playerbase the balance or resource vs reward in case of top-end raiding is simply not good enough.

Like it is for me and Savage coil. Fuck Savage coil!

Edit: T9 is totally cheap shit by the way, the only difficulty is that everything hits for 90% of your health bar.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Finding groups and making the time for End Game raids, is indeed one of, if not THE hardest part of the game. I mean, heck, to be entirely honest I'm not even that great a player, but i KNOW I can handle T9 with a bit of practice. It's just, finding that group that you can learn it with, or, if nobody knows the fight yet, making the time for everyone to slowly work out the kinks.

Running with different groups can be pretty challenging too. Even if both groups are roughly running the same strat, subtle differences in playstyle, placement, and DPS tendencies can throw you off. If you're good enough you can adjust, but adjusting in the face of uncertainty requires confidence and the ability to make a quick decision, so that's a skillset all it's own, one that needs to be exercised and practiced.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
WolvenOne said:
Finding groups and making the time for End Game raids, is indeed one of, if not THE hardest part of the game. I mean, heck, to be entirely honest I'm not even that great a player, but i KNOW I can handle T9 with a bit of practice. It's just, finding that group that you can learn it with, or, if nobody knows the fight yet, making the time for everyone to slowly work out the kinks.

Running with different groups can be pretty challenging too. Even if both groups are roughly running the same strat, subtle differences in playstyle, placement, and DPS tendencies can throw you off. If you're good enough you can adjust, but adjusting in the face of uncertainty requires confidence and the ability to make a quick decision, so that's a skillset all it's own, one that needs to be exercised and practiced.
Click to expand...

Imagine my feeling when out of the blue I was asked to tank two different golems by two different groups.
It's not hard

Now you got me thinking, it's actually a pretty neat test of your personal skill as opposed to just memorizing your actions in a particular encounter.
Oh, this group wants to do Party Moves. Oh, okay.
Oh, this FC binds renauds wherever they spawn and move the tanking spot instead of the other way around, oh okay.
Oh, this group doesn't stack in T8, oh okay.
None of this was hard to adapt to though.

Getting ready to 2.4 pugging resorting to the most scrubbiest strats in the book.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Frumix said:
Imagine my feeling when out of the blue I was asked to tank two different golems by two different groups.


It's not hard

Now you got me thinking, it's actually a pretty neat test of your personal skill as opposed to just memorizing your actions in a particular encounter.
Oh, this group wants to do Party Moves. Oh, okay.
Oh, this FC binds renauds wherever they spawn and move the tanking spot instead of the other way around, oh okay.
Oh, this group doesn't stack in T8, oh okay.
None of this was hard to adapt to though.
Click to expand...

Except for Divebombs, (Which I just haven't wrapped my head around fully yet,) it looks pretty easy, just a matter of working out the timings, is my guess. That doesn't mean I could go in and immediately get to Divebombs mind you, but I'm reasonably confident I could get caught up pretty quickly if I were the only one learning.

I mean, heck, in T5 I hadn't even successfully gotten to the big Snake spawn, went in with another group that regularly cleared, and got a clear in 4-5 tries. Granted, I suspect T9's isn't T5, but the point stands.

As for learning how other groups do things. Yeah admittedly I'm kinda prone to being thrown for a loop when people do something that I wasn't expecting. Heck, derped pretty hard tonight in T7 in that regard. I'm not a naturally confident man, and what confidence I do have gameplay wise tends to stem from all the practice I've done. This isn't to say that I'm incapable of adapting, rather, there tends to be a two second period where my mind wrestles with these things.

It's a flaw, and it's something I need to work on, but at least I'm aware of it.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
WolvenOne said:
Except for Divebombs, (Which I just haven't wrapped my head around fully yet,) it looks pretty easy, just a matter of working out the timings, is my guess. That doesn't mean I could go in and immediately get to Divebombs mind you, but I'm reasonably confident I could get caught up pretty quickly if I were the only one learning.

I mean, heck, in T5 I hadn't even successfully gotten to the big Snake spawn, went in with another group that regularly cleared, and got a clear in 4-5 tries. Granted, I suspect T9's isn't T5, but the point stands.
Click to expand...

Divebombs are piss easy.
Look absolute north.
Rotate your view clockwise.
Point A which is the first divebomb target is between the first two dragons on your path.
Point B is 180 degrees opposite of that.
Get your OT to mark.
This shit is foolproof.


Edit: returning to the Quick Ventures issue
KFBi8qD.png

Retainer gear is i84 (entire scylla set plus some myth accs and an alkalurops)
Interesting.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Frumix said:
Divebombs are piss easy.
Look absolute north.
Rotate your view clockwise.
Point A which is the first divebomb target is between the first two dragons on your path.
Point B is 180 degrees opposite of that.
Get your OT to mark.
This shit is foolproof.
Click to expand...

I've heard it's easy, I just don't really understand what it is. I know Divebombs are an attack that targets a player, then applies some sort of attack that does a big knockback effect, but I don't really understand the exact mechanics, so it's hard to make sense of all those diagrams and such.

Best guess, if they're anything like the Divebombs in ST. Imagine a line between the dragon and the targeted player, and get the heck away from it.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
WolvenOne said:
I've heard it's easy, I just don't really understand what it is. I know Divebombs are an attack that targets a player, then applies some sort of attack that does a big knockback effect, but I don't really understand the exact mechanics, so it's hard to make sense of all those diagrams and such.

Best guess, if they're anything like the Divebombs in ST. Imagine a line between the dragon and the targeted player, and get the heck away from it.
Click to expand...

It's exactly like Red Dragon's Cauterize. Actually it's exactly the same attack.
 
S

Semper88

Member
Finding groups for SCoB is really hard indeed, ALOT of bad players out there that will never see passed T6 because its not forgiving anymore.

my static in the FC blew up a few days ago.. we were so close to T9 but then the drama kicked in. Reminded me i'm still playing with people and i wish sometimes that wasnt the case

Now i gotta start all over and look for a new group which is pretty time consuming.\

About the dive bombs.. 1 rule : you see the green marker, you make a few steps forward. How easy can it be?

on a other note.. if someone needs a i103 war/pld on Phoenix for SCoB lemme know :)
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Valor said:
Hey man, I said grats!


You're not very good at the stealth part about stealth bragging. If you don't like raiding then don't raid. No one is forcing you to.
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It's not stealth bragging if I'm telling you outright, is it?
Not sure how you deduced that I don't like to raid from my posts either!
I like to raid as long as I feel it's satisfying to do.
Ramuh isn't, so I don't do Ramuh.

Ken said:
PRAISE BE TO KYOKO HANA

GLORIOUS LEADER TO T9 VICTORY
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She so bad at PLD tho :<
 
T

Taruranto

Member
Lockout is probably the "hardest" challenge in Coil and what stopped me from doing endgame "seriously" in the first place. Maintaining a fixed raiding schedule every week it's simply not worth in this game with the way the gears work. You can't take break, you are dependent on other 7 people to show up, if one member doesn't show up you are forced to rep him with PUG and you fuck him and the party for all that week, it creates frictions and jealousy between FC members who can't come with you and are locked out of content.


Now I log in and if there is a Coil group in PF I join it, made my life 100x easier.

I don't find the fights up to T8 "hard", Twintania is probably "harder" than T6-8 because of of the abundance of 1HKO mechanics. I find T9 awfully designed and filled with artificially difficulty, it's full of stupid arbitrary mechanics that WILL wipe you the first time no matter how good your party is.
 
I

IMBored

Member
As a mediocre (at best) player I wish there was an "unlocked" version of SCoB, with no reward. That way people could practice, and experiment, SCoil content and it wouldn't lock other people that might want to help out. For that matter, I don't understand why Ramuh EX can't be pf yet, seems like a useless restriction.
 
E

edissonlcn

Neo Member
Hey guys, Tina Vonkarma here, finally got my GAF account \o/.
I'm not playing the game anymore, but I keep following this thread, I hope this community stays alive until I have enough time to get back online.

Shout out to Team Bookey!
 
F

Frazley

Member
5407e3c022c39256212caf16.jpg


Just made it to 50! My first level 50 class. Got my relic gear from my job quest and am working on finishing up main story. I am i49 right now and am working to increase this.
 
R

retrogamer84

Member
IMBored said:
As a mediocre (at best) player I wish there was an "unlocked" version of SCoB, with no reward. That way people could practice, and experiment, SCoil content and it wouldn't lock other people that might want to help out. For that matter, I don't understand why Ramuh EX can't be pf yet, seems like a useless restriction.
Click to expand...

I agree with this completely. I have a long ways to go before I get into endgame content, but as another mediocre at best player I am not very confident that I can beat Titan HM let alone anything beyond. Coil is just so intimidating, especially as someone who doesn't have the best of reflexes.
 
F

Frazley

Member
Though I do see why they have both hard stuff and regular stuff. There are players who want the extra challenge. I don't believe the game is designed to have all players access EVERYTHING. Am I right that as time goes on Coils either get Echoes or get easier? T1 of first Coil I have heard used to be tough and now you can get up to T4 or T6 (I haven't experienced this yet) through Duty Finder.

I also supplement this game with other games. So I'm not just playing FFXIV. As time goes on, the game will continue to get more varied content. Heck, I need to finish my beast tribe quests and level up other classes let alone finish the story and a lot of post-main story content.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
I want to practice Renaud kiting because it is bugging the shit out of me that I'm that bad at it. They don't move that fast and the videos I've found look super easy.

jonathanbloom said:
Just made it to 50! My first level 50 class. Got my relic gear from my job quest and am working on finishing up main story. I am i49 right now and am working to increase this.
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Congratulations, you're almost to the fun part of the game!
 
I

iammeiam

Member
jonathanbloom said:
As long as that's not sarcasm, I'm excited! :D I keep hearing from others that post-50 isn't fun, glad to know that's just a minority of opinion.
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I'm being pretty serious; generally 50 is when you really have access to all of your class skills and can see how they all interact, and I feel like most of the enjoyable content is at 50.

The playerbase becomes slightly more prone to being dicks in DF at endgame, but it hasn't been totally unmanageable in my experience. I've still never been kicked from a party despite constantly doing dumb stuff.

50 is when the actual game starts.
 
T

Tabris

Member
Second Coil has 2 big issues:

1) Requires a static to be effective. Which requires 8 people all to have the same schedule. I found it was tough this summer due to traveling and vacations. Next week we have 2 members on vacation. Luckily that will change after summer vacations are done. We also have a unique schedule as a group, 9pm PST during weekdays due to Korra's work schedule. So also hard to find replacements.

2) You are only as good as your weakest member due to the auto-wipe mechanics. Unlike all previous content, including T5, you could carry weaker members without an issue. If they sucked, they died, and as long as you can fill a DPS check requirement, didn't require tank swapping, or your healer was able to solo, you were fine. While in 2nd coil, if someone is too slow or cannot react to the situation, they can wipe the entire party (T8 is a bit of an exception to this - as you really only need a couple people on the ball). ex: Someone doesn't pay attention to their voice debuff and hits everyone. Someone is slow to react to stardust and drops a meteor next to another one.
 
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