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Final Fantasy XIV |OT5| All You Need is Gil
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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What I would have liked to see with Nexus - Is to have content start with high light and widdle down during the day. i.e. Run a Titan HM (Newborn), Leviathan EX (Brilliant), Frontlines (Bright), etc up to Feeble. Then reset back to Newborn next day. Maybe tie newborn light to the roulette resets as well, so every trial and dungeon roulette gives you a newborn once a day.
Prevents mass grinding except for those totally dedicated where they could do Cape Westwind for hours, and then awards people a bit more who go casual.
Prevents mass grinding except for those totally dedicated where they could do Cape Westwind for hours, and then awards people a bit more who go casual.
I'm of the mindset where if you're going to do something, you may as well do it to the best of your abilities. I mean, to each their own, but if people are intent on clearing tough content, they need to approach it in a serious manner for the most part.
Hey man, be careful. I once called the Rosenbogen a casual weapon and got strung up for it.
I disagree. It's not a crazy grind when you don't... well grind it. When 2.3 came out or whichever update had the atma farming, I remember just casually doing a FATE whenever I saw it while doing everything else in 2.3. Got 3 atma that way, then took the rest casually.
Animus felt a bit grindy due to doing a bit too much Bray but that's on me, I could have slowed it down by a couple weeks and been fine.
Novus wasn't a grind at all for me. I remember just doing a lot of EXDR after coil nights and in the mornings otherwise. I didn't have to do the spirit bonding / gil gathering though since I split PAR/ACC/DET.
Nexus isn't a grind for me either. Just doing things like trials, Coil, and occasional ST or dungeon to get some light. Up to 300-400 already.
This is usually my stance on it. Not to say I'll care if you're at 390 instead of 400 or something else reasonable but it certainly comes to question when you're at 150 instead of 400.
Even in 2.0, Relic's weren't really, "casual," it's more like they were the default. There were only two ilvl90 weapons at that time, (Allagen weapons didn't get a bump to i95 until 2.1.) And most players didn't have a prayer at getting those Allagen weapons without having a Relic to help them with the DPS checks.
It wasn't until 2.1 that they really diversified out and added a third set of weapons that were really suitable for Coil. Initially those weren't really casual either, since Titan Extreme was such a roadblock, but looking at their stats, it's kinda clear those were meant as casual weapons to grab for alt classes.
Anyhow, I have criticized the Nexus grind for being uncreative, and for balancing out it's rewards in such a way as to encourage the repeat grinding of quick easy content. Those complaints are valid, though to be fair, the later wouldn't have been an issue if people hadn't cracked all the numbers involved. That's no excuse though, as developers really ought to expect people to figure these things out.
Again, I rather hope that the next segments of the Relic quest are tied to newer pieces of content. Maybe Gold Saucer, or Triple Triad, or even Extreme Primals, "something." Older content just isn't much of a challenge, when you've got eight people running around with 110 weapons, and they all know how to use them.
That's another thing, I find it so odd how base Relic and Zodiac was actually more challenging. Less grindy, sure, but in 2.0, Chimera and Hydra were legit fights, especially with everyone running around in Hoplite or Darklight gear. Then you had the HM primals, which were also legit fights that were best tackled with a pre-formed party.
I mean, sure, you're not going to have too many instances like that again now. Back then these fights were mostly hard because people were in the middle of going from an ilvl grind of 50 to 90. You're not going to have many instances where the bulk of the server is undergeared for a fight that badly again, at least not until the expansion, (maybe not even then.)
All of this being said, I still overall enjoy the Relic quests. I usually find some aspect I find annoying, but I'm typically able to look past those flaws and enjoy them for what they are.
The problem is for all of these steps, you probably sat down for one week and did grind a bunch to get the progress going. If you didn't then you probably would have been left behind when the new step launched. IMO if casual players aren't hitting the next step when the new relic releases then it's hard to call it casual content anymore. I think nexus will be the first step in awhile where people will naturally have the weapon by the time the next step drops.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The issue with Novus isn't the Alex, it's the materia. You either need to grind out spiritbinding to a Korean degree or you need to be rich and buy a lot of materia on the market board.
Squenix has basically gone completely ass-backwards with this game's design, all the content which is supposed to be 'casual' in other MMOs like personal housing and your base quest weapon are all insane hardcore content. I mean, FFXIV literally has nothing for non-hardcore Korean grinders to actually do, what content is even in this game that people who don't play the game as a full-time job can accomplish?
But best of your abilities doesn't necessarily match best of some other guy's abilities (or gear, or group comp), and going at it from a strict DPS perspective (especially in the learning phase) doesn't necessarily help. My primary concern when learning something new/difficult is honestly just not wiping the group. Once I'm confident in my ability to shoot shit while not causing a wipe (or eating a Dynamo and undoing group progress) I can try to shoot it better and hit it harder, but it still doesn't help me to see parses proving people can pull 400 DPS or whatever because I'm not realistically hitting that any time soon and I don't think the content needs me to.
Like I think I've probably improved from a DPS perspective in the first couple phases of T9, and I'd like to know if what I'm trying is working (hence my desire for self-parse), but if somebody comes in and drops a number dramatically higher than what I'm doing, I can't bring myself to worry about that. I'm not ever going to be the best--I still clip all my dots half the time for no apparent reason and that's like Bard 101--and so can't stress the raw numbers.
This may be a good indicator of why I'm not cut out for progression raiding and work better as group spackle.
And Rosenbogen is now totally casual.
I mean, Nexus is most definitely a grind no matter you take it. You're completing content to fill a bar. The at your pace part sets how mindless / tedious / word of choice it can be. I think it's a fine step conceptually but it's really low effort from the design side of things. I'm just hoping 2.4 doesn't have us demiglazing it for another round of attunements to get to i120...
Well, when learning it isn't really about finding all the ways you can increase your DPS. That's an as you go sort of thing. That's when you learn the AoEs you can safely take or how many seconds you need to move so you can squeeze extra GCDs in there. I think the larger concern is just knowing your job and doing that properly along with, y'know, actually doing it instead of half-assing it. Not popping oGCDs when available, not using buffs appropriately, etc.
Also, I wouldn't really compare yourself to "topDPSmeter" reports and so on. Worry more about where your numbers lie with the group and other people you know with similar gear or whatever. And then only care a lot if it's something noticeably different and not a few points here and there. Being 390 to their 400 means finding an extra few GCD over the course of the fight and isn't a big deal. 300 to their 400 means maybe mistiming a buff and losing uptime and that's more about learning the fight rather than tweaking your job performance.
Well, when learning it isn't really about finding all the ways you can increase your DPS. That's an as you go sort of thing. That's when you learn the AoEs you can safely take or how many seconds you need to move so you can squeeze extra GCDs in there. I think the larger concern is just knowing your job and doing that properly along with, y'know, actually doing it instead of half-assing it. Not popping oGCDs when available, not using buffs appropriately, etc.
Also, I wouldn't really compare yourself to "topDPSmeter" reports and so on. Worry more about where your numbers lie with the group and other people you know with similar gear or whatever. And then only care a lot if it's something noticeably different and not a few points here and there. Being 390 to their 400 means finding an extra few GCD over the course of the fight and isn't a big deal. 300 to their 400 means maybe mistiming a buff and losing uptime and that's more about learning the fight rather than tweaking your job performance.
tiggerkiddo
Member
The relic grind will just get more grindy and maybe more obnoxious of a grind.
I'm still hoping they do something to make the relic quest interesting in the future like how it used to be tied to the primal fights. I would love if they had a section of the quest tied to a boss rush of some sort and your group queued up for the boss rush itself and a wipe would cause you to start from the beginning again. The stance on relic is you don't need to be top 1% raider on the server or anything but I think boss rushing a few of the ex primals wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
They'd need to add more to it, of course because 1 boss rush and then handing out a weapon would be a bad idea but I'd like that as a greater part of something.
They'd need to add more to it, of course because 1 boss rush and then handing out a weapon would be a bad idea but I'd like that as a greater part of something.
Why am I not seeing 600 dps? COME ON, BOOKEY.
You can do a three stat split on Novus, and bypass the Materia grind entirely. Sure, it's not quite as good as a Det/Crit split. However, secondary stats make such a small overall difference on your DPS output, that you really shouldn't sweat bullets over having a little less Det or Crit. Far more damage is determined by your strength, your weapon damage stat, and the auto-attack numbers.
You could have a 115 weapon that only had 75 points of Accuracy, and you'd still get fairly solid numbers out of it.
You could have a 115 weapon that only had 75 points of Accuracy, and you'd still get fairly solid numbers out of it.
I'm thinking they'll continue trying to release relic steps that don't involve NEEDING your own group going into the content. Keeping it to DF stuff and leave premade parties just for upping the efficiency.
riot
riot
I think it shows the opposite, actually. If you show enough of a care or a willingness to improve, then I think that's the completely correct attitude to take into high level content. When I started end-game raiding I was happy enough to throw myself at the content just to do it. Once I got accustom to it in first coil, I wanted to try and take the next step. Some people don't want to take that next step, and that's fine too. As long as people have fun playing, then it's all gravy. Fun means different things to different people, no doubt.
You aren't gonna pull crazy numbers off the bat, because yeah, you need to learn the fight and learn how to cheat your dps. That goes for everyone, really. I set relatively high goals for myself in the fights and always try to outdo my last performance. As long as you're always willing to learn and adapt, then you're fine.
Rosenbogen is the epitome of casual.
The game should have a hardcore points meter.
So when you accumulate enough hardcore points by having hardcore gear and doing hardcore stuff you can show people online that you're not a filthy casual.
Equipping a soldiery weapon after 2.3 automatically flushes the stat to zero and depowers your relic to unfinished.
So when you accumulate enough hardcore points by having hardcore gear and doing hardcore stuff you can show people online that you're not a filthy casual.
Equipping a soldiery weapon after 2.3 automatically flushes the stat to zero and depowers your relic to unfinished.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I believe the idea behind the Nexus grind was to complete it by doing stuff you'd do normally. But the fact you can do it by doing a billion Garudas means of course people are doing that, and the average person doesn't look at it and go 'oh hey I'll get that in two months' but instead goes 'how many lights?!'
Yoshi-P's dream player is some kind of patient saint with a fondness for FATEs and a willingness to save up millions of gil for a house plot that probably won't be there by the time the money is.
Yoshi-P's dream player is some kind of patient saint with a fondness for FATEs and a willingness to save up millions of gil for a house plot that probably won't be there by the time the money is.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
Must be a mid-step or the unfinished version.
Not nearly enough blinding light there.
Probably?
I would tend to agree with this assessment. In most cases, the idea behind these Relic Quests aren't fundamentally flawed, but are balanced in a really odd way.
Do some Fates for an item you need to start the next quest. Okay, wait the drop-rate is how low!?!
Oh, I need to do a scavenger hunt of content? Okay, that sounds fun. Wait they cost how much Myth? And these Fates pop how often!?
Ah, so I buy these maps, get Alexandrite, and use them to upgrade my weapon? Okay, that's not bad. Wait, I need HOW many pieces of Materia?!
In every case, we have an okay idea, skewed by some absurd number tacked on at the end.
Edit: Yeah, these numbers wouldn't mean much, if people were just patiently grinding a little every day. However, nobody likes to feel like they're falling behind, and if people were doing the weapons that way, they'd still be on the Animus or Novus stage after all this time. Another way of putting it, casual players are more likely to go after Soldiery weapons. Hard core players are more likely to go after the High Allagan weapons. Where does this leave Relics exactly?
Unknown Soldier
Member
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Coming from FFXI I can not complain about relic grinds. It's not even close to as bad in XIV.
Oh, I believe it. And honestly, while the design here is a bit obtuse, I think a few people here and there are a little, eh, over the top in their assessment.
That said even, "not even close to as bad," still isn't where the developers should be aiming.
What's an auto attack?
Imagine Wagons
Member
FFXIV end game is really starting to feel like RNG == content substitute. I'm looking at you, Atma grind.
To add to this, if my CD's are up [such as at the start of the fight], I like to:
Thunder II > Fire III > Quelling/Raging Strikes > Fire 1 [until around 500 Mana] > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Fire I > Blizzard III > Thunder II > Fire III [when full on Mana] > Fire I [Begin standard rotation]
Obviously use Firestarter/Thunderstruck proc as they happen. You can also try cast-clipping where you slightly move your character when the cast bar is near 70-75% or so. Your spell will still cast [if done right], and you'll be able to start your new cast before the previously casted one is finished. It only saves you a few milliseconds between spells, but over the entirety of a fight it can really add up! You need to be careful, though, as if you move too early you'll outright cancel the spell, and that just isn't good. It's kind of one of those things you get a "feel" for, the more you play your character.
Fire I.
Small free attacks that you automagically do when you're in range, and when you've already been attacking an enemy. I'm not really sure if they work the same way with casters, since they're rarely in melee range.
Ah thank you. A language I understand.
The joke was BLMs don't have an auto attack
From what I've read just now, (Google Fu yo,) All casters have an auto-attack, it just requires them to be within melee range to utilize.
That said, I think casters are balanced so as not to utilize them very heavily.
I think our healer tried just walking up to something and slapping it with a book for a while to parse and it was something like 20-30dps
I honestly don't remember the exact amount, but now for jokes the SCH goes in for the book whenever he's bored.
The idea of slapping some demon with a book is pretty good though.
I honestly don't remember the exact amount, but now for jokes the SCH goes in for the book whenever he's bored.
The idea of slapping some demon with a book is pretty good though.
Google fu has failed. The rest of the casters do (an arcanist book slapping you is the best) but BLM does not. T6 proves that every week since I rarely put my weapon away for blighted and I'm always standing next to the boss. The only time an auto attack has come out of me is when Gilgamesh confuses me and I run up and slap people silly (same for Siren if I remember right).
Aye,
You have to stop doing actual damage for the real caster deeps.
Magic is for chumps, slapping monsters with rods and books is where it's at.
Sounds like even BLM's get a few auto-attacks in, over the course of a fight, if they're standing within range. Probably not enough to make a real difference though.
If casting stops the auto attack then only a garbage BLM would have any auto attacks register. But I still content that we don't auto attack at all. I look forward to parsing 0 at a dummy later after right clicking it and going afk.
Attack it once first, sometimes right clicking a target isn't enough to activate auto-attacks.
I feel like the following will be the most noobish question in existence. The circle spinning above the mobs head means I should be auto attacking right?
Pyros_Eien
Member
You get autoattacks off during Firestarter/Thunderstuck procs, which is relatively frequently and also between spells sometimes even when queuing the next. It's not much dmg though, like I think my BLM autoattacks for 70 or so with a zenith. I right click every mob while doing fates/daillies etc and you notice the autoattacks because of the wooden pop sound from your staff hitting. Probably not worth standing in melee range of anything you don't need to, though it's free damage if you're stacking behind the boss in melee range, like on say Titan EX. And yeah autoattack is the circle above the mob's name, it happens if you square(or well might not be square as I rebound stuff, the button that picks a target and hard select it) with a target selected on a gamepad or if you right click a mob with the mouse. Also turns on automatically when using attack skills, but not spells.
I didn't notice it but... the shiva's crystal could be behind fenrir
I'm hoping/expecting that dungeon to be a requirement for the main scenario.
Imagine how all the new ninjas will feel when 2.4 drops. I'm thinking if they ever planned to nerf steps in the relic quest, 2.4 will be the time.
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