Unknown Soldier
Member
Why do you care if other people can play their jobs at raiding level or not?
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT5| All You Need is Gil
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Why do you care if other people can play their jobs at raiding level or not?
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's all the same shit, the dungeons are all FFXIII style pretty lines in this game. It's boring as hell. The new ones are full of anti-speedrun measures too. If Yoshi hates me pulling the whole dungeon to the boss that much, I just won't bother doing them.
Makoto I will give you my sands the next go around.
FYI: I'm doing hunts, but not religiously. I'm satisfied if I get a handful of B's and a few A's on any given day. I only really need two Sands for my Main class anyway, so even getting one greatly reduces what I'll need.
Granted, I'll want a few for my DRG class, but once we're clearing 8 I won't be nearly as concerned with gearing it up quickly.
Granted, I'll want a few for my DRG class, but once we're clearing 8 I won't be nearly as concerned with gearing it up quickly.
irfaanator
Banned
when I do random duty roulettes of the high level stuff with people then yes I kinda do care. What about the people that don't have statics and have to rely on duty/party finder for coil completion? Do they want to be stuck with people that can't play their class?
I think more importantly they need to stop "slapping" content in just because people want it (see: PvP) or to check off some MMO handbook. Hunts is just another example of that - specifically because people wanted FFXI style content.
If you want FFXI... go play that game.
I would never deprive another ally of their Sands of Time. Never! However, if you have little or no need for it, I will gladly accept your offer! If you need it for yourself, though, that's a different matter entirely. In that case, I wouldn't think of taking something that was rightfully yours. My turn will come around.
Considering so many of BLM's BiS come from upgraded Soldiary gear, it does make getting all of the Sands of Time a stressful experience. I still need to upgrade my Chest, Hands, and Belt. My Boots have a possibility to be upgraded too, but the High Allagan are better. Here's hoping they drop for us again soon...
It gives me something to strive towards/look forward to, so it's not completely bad.
While I overall agree, I think Hunts could work fairly well, it just needs some, uh, adjustment. Some sort of HP scaling, a reduction in log book drop rates, a weekly cap, "something," to put a bit of a brake on people zerging it.
Also, increase the reward for doing Weekly/Daily Hunts, this combined with a reduction in Log Book drops would get at least some players doing the daily/weekly hunts. Maybe not a ton but, *shrug*
Yes, they need to make vast adjustments just like they needed to add more to PvP. They need to do it much quicker than their reaction time to PvP however.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Why don't you stop doing solo duty roulettes then if it bothers you that much. The point of solo duty roulette is to encourage players to help each other, especially new players who might actually need the dungeon for completion. Of you aren't going into DR assuming you might have to teach people, then you are missing the point of DR entirely.
I would agree with this, they don't have six months to fix this. They need at least a band aid fix within a month.
What is your opinion of Frontlines? I thought it has been pretty well received in general. The arena stuff they put it sounds not so great though.
I haven't tried it yet. Might do that today. I was busy trying to finish the story and sidequest stuff + coil and Crystal Tower first.
irfaanator
Banned
I think you've missed my point entirely so w/e
Thing is, putting more HP on them isnt going to solve anything if there's near Odin-level attendance on these things. Claim systems also kinda suck because apparently people are using programs to locate these things now.
Maybe if they were treated like maps where you could initiate them in the field with a party.
Unknown Soldier
Member
No I think I got your point perfectly, but I don't know that you realized what point you were making.
irfaanator
Banned
alright then
This would honestly be the best solution right now, especially with people cheating like they are.
You don't like the like dungeons because you can't speed run them, but it you want other people to stick around and help them? Wat
My proposed band-aid style fixes.
1: Implement some sort of HP scaling system, or some sort of MDPS limit, so Marks can't be zerged down so quickly.
2: Slightly increase the reward for A's and B's, so that people whom don't score very highly still walk away with at least 5 marks.
3: Increase the reward for daily Hunts to 5 Marks, 10 Marks if the Mob is apart of a Fate.
4: Reduce the drop rate of Log Books, even with a slight increase in rewards for Dailies, A's and B's, this would still overall increase the grind and make the fights somewhat less attractive to people who are regularly clearing T8.
5: Make the weekly hunt a repeatable reward, and increase the number of NM's on the Weekly list. Compensate by slightly decreasing the size of the reward. This would help by getting a number of players fixated on certain zones, decreasing the chance that NM's out of those zones will be insta-zerged.
1: Implement some sort of HP scaling system, or some sort of MDPS limit, so Marks can't be zerged down so quickly.
2: Slightly increase the reward for A's and B's, so that people whom don't score very highly still walk away with at least 5 marks.
3: Increase the reward for daily Hunts to 5 Marks, 10 Marks if the Mob is apart of a Fate.
4: Reduce the drop rate of Log Books, even with a slight increase in rewards for Dailies, A's and B's, this would still overall increase the grind and make the fights somewhat less attractive to people who are regularly clearing T8.
5: Make the weekly hunt a repeatable reward, and increase the number of NM's on the Weekly list. Compensate by slightly decreasing the size of the reward. This would help by getting a number of players fixated on certain zones, decreasing the chance that NM's out of those zones will be insta-zerged.
tiggerkiddo
Member
For someone who is now clearing T9 on a regular basis, why would you even need it? lol
If a player has a large number of alternate classes, they're going to need a lot of those Sands. <_<;;
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm talking about using the duty roulette which is what he was complaining about. It has nothing to do with speedruns. If I'm looking for an speedrun I'm certainly not going to use the duty roulette for one. The only time I ever used the duty roulette for SRs was when you could queue as a Light Party for the dungeon you wanted but that's over now.
irfaanator
Banned
he needs like 6 sands to be bis
I have no issue with ppl running dungeons. I don't care if I wipe 3 times in Hullbreaker. I am specifically talking about duty/party finders for second coil/extremes. Also knowing how a fight works is totally different than knowing how your class works.
Example: If I'm some rando pub that is really looking to clear first or second coil and for some reason can't make a long term static. I am really trying and make a party finder that has a legitimate ilevel requirement. These people who have just fated/hunted through the fight are able to join due to inflated ilvls, but they haven't really learned how they're class works and are now hindering my progression. How does getting all this fat loot help me or help them? Yea they do more dmg/heal more/have more hp, but if they are doing bad dps/don't heal properly/can't tank properly all of that means nothing
devious.one
Member
Ultros isn't any different then other servers. Take a look through the BG Elite Marks topic. Plenty of examples of all the same rage and nonsense across various other servers.
Honestly, this is how I thought it would be. Each week you would get an Elite Mark in your Journal as a quest, you form a party, you go to the area designated, initiate the quest, and kill it. Only people in your current party can attack your mark, so you don't have to worry about anyone claiming it before you.
I know people wouldn't be able to farm endless Allied Seals this way, since the game would only technically allow you to spawn one Elite Mark per week, but maybe they could have it so that if you complete the quest for five Regular Marks, you would gain access to another quest for an Elite Mark? As it stands, very few people [if any] do the quests for Standard Marks, since their payout is so low and likely isn't worth their time traveling the distances to kill it.
To be best-in-slot, of course, and make our clears even faster, not to mention being better prepared for the Third Coil of Bahamut [when it's released]. Also, depending on if we get bored enough, it'd be nice to have just in-case we feel the need to try Brutal Coil. I have a feeling we'll need all the help we can get in clearing that. >_<
While I would miss the chance to just, randomly bump into an NM, this would probably mitigate many of the problems we're seeing.
Nephitamine
Member
So worth the seals.
Ratchet1848
Member
Why can't they make it like this but you are able to invite as many people as you want and everyone gets some credit. Makes you want to help everyone and everyone help you. If 8 people have a "Mark Quest" and you do all 8, you've cleaned up and no drama at all. Same principle and none of the animosity. You know, like the bonus for first timers in dungeons? Everyone gets something extra and you get your Mark, move on to the next persons Mark and the same thing happens. Same amount of pay out (more actually because of no "claiming") and 0 bickering.
I don't care about best in slot for my alt classes, so there's that. My plan is and has always been to gear those up using coil. I already have all the sands I need so I'm more than willing to give my turn to one of my group members who have several soldiery pieces as BIS for the good of the group.
tiggerkiddo
Member
lol, you realize who we are talking about, right?
Some people do care though. Besides, unless your alt class is healer, you're kinda outta luck in Second Coil. XD
tiggerkiddo
Member
You all focusing on hunts and here I am trying to farm myth to get all level 90 gear and be able to do coil, so i can get even better gear and upgrade soldiery step by step.
You should do CT too, since quite a few of the soldiery pieces are complete junk.
Depends on RNG, ultimately.
*sheds a tear*
Truly a team-player.
Yes, if there's one thing I have little-to-no interest in, it's alternate classes. I will do what I must to improve my primary class [by leveling alternate classes], but going for numerous Level 50? That is where I draw the line!
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well okay, this seems like a more reasonable argument, but there are hard gear checks for T8 and T9 so getting people geared still has a valid purpose. The other problem is solved when you realize you can't judge people based on what gear they have, which is one reason I find the elitist whining about people being able to get unlimited Sands from Hunts so hilarious in the first place. Let people have gear, it's up to them if they want to learn how to play and pug Coil or not. This is how all MMOs work, there is always gear catch up late in a content cycle.
I am running CT1 a lot. I already got my CT2 hear (Oil!) so I wanna wait till next week so I can try my luck at getting some newer/better gear.
irfaanator
Banned
unlimited sands/oils/uats are fine since casuals will need to get them at some point, but having the big stuff behind the 2nd version of fates was not a good idea. I like having uats and oils behind ct2. The dungeon is actually interesting and requires at least some understanding how to play.
Both Turn 8 and 9 aren't that hard of gear checks - especially T9. As long as everyone has at least an i100 weapon it shouldn't be that bad. It's just putting in the time and learning the patterns/mechanics.
Turn 8 became less of a barrier when people realized they could one-tank it.
I think the initial salt was coming from it being too soon for gear catch up for the plebs/bads
Would've been fine if it was a considerable grind. If it's a big enough grind, most the players willing to do it would have to be dedicated enough to pour significant mounts of time into that class. So chances are they would've been at least nominally decent.
With Sands and oils being something you can get every few days however, at least if RNG's on your side, yeah, kinda muddies the waters a bit.
At this point it's more that CT and coil still maintain a lockout.
Some people can claim that soldiery itself remains capped but if you've been playing since 2.2 and capping weekly then you probably are full soldiery by now if you weren't doing coil.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Most of the people you would call hardcore leveled their jobs using only FATEs at 2.0 launch because they were so much better than dungeons. These players became the hardcore raiding base who play today. So the argument that letting people level with FATEs or get geared with Hunts is somehow bad is IMHO made invalid by what actually happened during this game's launch. In general those kind of arguments are not good to me because people who refuse to learn to play will do so regardless of what gear they do and don't have. Let people level and gear how they choose, everyone has to has to face the same endgame regardless of how they got there.
I do think that Sands should be from CT2 too. That is a fun raid, it's much better than CT1 was, and having Sands in CT2 would relieve some of the zerging going on with the Hunts right now.
Hopefully the next round isn't THAT much more complex. Seeing as it already strains most groups schedules, if Third Coil took two--to-three times the amount of time to learn per turn, I think it'd destroy most groups.
2.2 was already pretty rough on most groups - especially if you can only raid 1-2 days a week. 6-8 weren't too far off from 1-5 I suppose but 9 is a pretty big time sink that outweighed the rest for us.
Augemitbutter
Member
you keep pulling the same "why do you care" card. that's a cheap way to dismiss bad game design. if you can play the game as a co-op game in a bubble in your favorite 4-8 man group 24/7, that's fantastic. however, that's very unrealistic for pretty much everyone.
fact is, SE is breeding bad players with their fate/hunt system and everyone has to suffer for it. on top of that, they have succeeded in bringing out the worst in people. i believe people are right to ask for higher quality content.
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