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[msdstc]

Thanks for all the help getting me going on SS, I've decided to give it a 1 month trial if you will, see where my gains and overall health are at that point, but already I'm liking it. Just wondering if I push to fail and fail to reach 5 on a set, should I drop down and do 5, or call it on that exercise? So for instance....

I did Overhead Press

5 of 105
5 of 110
2 of 115

I've made sure to do more proper form now, and found I had more strength than ever since I didn't do my incline press on the same day, but for that last set couldn't quite hit 5, so how should I proceed?

edit- also could I get a good link to power cleaning tutorials? Preferably the one with the least pressure on the knees.

 

[TheJerit]

Well, for the basic program in the op that's adapted from the book "starting strength," there's a link to The Starting Strength Wiki (This link should probably be way more prominent in the next thread's op). The page linked to contains sections titled "What weight should I start with during the first week?" and "how much weight should I add from workout to workout?"

I believe that the actual book's biggest advantage over the wiki is that the book has way more detailed descriptions of the movements to help you understand what every bit of your anatomy does to contribute.


THE ALTERNATIVE COMPOUND LIFTS FIRST-WORKOUT DECISION: Just start with an empty barbell and add weight from there at the recommended pace for each lift.

This.


It's what I used. On that page, there is a section called 'What weight should I start with during the first week?' It'll go into more detail on how to access your starting weight. I took that with the warm up section (below this section) and that's how I started out. Worked for me.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Thanks for all the help getting me going on SS, I've decided to give it a 1 month trial if you will, see where my gains and overall health are at that point, but already I'm liking it. Just wondering if I push to fail and fail to reach 5 on a set, should I drop down and do 5, or call it on that exercise? So for instance....

I did Overhead Press

5 of 105
5 of 110
2 of 115

I've made sure to do more proper form now, and found I had more strength than ever since I didn't do my incline press on the same day, but for that last set couldn't quite hit 5, so how should I proceed?

edit- also could I get a good link to power cleaning tutorials? Preferably the one with the least pressure on the knees.

You are not doing SS right if you are upping the weight across the work sets. Your OHP work set should look like the following:

Work set 1 105# 5 reps
Work set 2 105# 5 reps
Work set 3 105# 5 reps

If you miss, that's also in the wiki. It's a "3 strikes you are out" basis. 3 missed reps across (5/4/3 4/4/4 5/5/2) is considered a missed attempt.

I suggest you read the entirety of the wiki.

Also, the power cleans really don't put any considerable pressure on the knees. Regular Cleans do, but not the power ones.

Also, 4 weeks is just 12 training sessions. I would give it at least 20 training sessions before getting off SS.

 

[msdstc]

You are not doing SS right if you are upping the weight across the work sets. Your OHP work set should look like the following:

Work set 1 105# 5 reps
Work set 2 105# 5 reps
Work set 3 105# 5 reps

If you miss, that's also in the wiki. It's a "3 strikes you are out" basis. 3 missed reps across (5/4/3 4/4/4 5/5/2) is considered a missed attempt.

I suggest you read the entirety of the wiki.

Also, the power cleans really don't put any considerable pressure on the knees. Regular Cleans do, but not the power ones.

Also, 4 weeks is just 12 training sessions. I would give it at least 20 training sessions before getting off SS.

Alrighty, so if I have a missed attempt, what's the makeup for that? Also what's the best amount of weight to keep on there? One that feels comfortable, or one that's pushing myself a bit? Thanks for any help!

edit- also for day 2 it recommends ab work, here is my current routine.

2 sets of planks- 60-70 sec (up from 25)
2 sets of side planks- 45 seconds each
3 sets of hanging leg raises

Any thoughts?

 

[BronzeWolf]

Alrighty, so if I have a missed attempt, what's the makeup for that?

You decrease the weight increments. If you were adding 10# on the OHP on each session, you will now add 5#. If you were adding #5, you now will increase #2.5. Even down to 2# increments a week is advisable. You will still be advancing no less than 3# a week.

If you did 95 5/5/5 and then 105 5/5/4, next training session you should attempt 110x3x5

Also what's the best amount of weight to keep on there? One that feels comfortable, or one that's pushing myself a bit?

SS is based on calculated increments and steady progression. You add the amount that makes it easier to keep adding weight workout through workout.

Thanks for any help!

2 sets of planks- 60-70 sec (up from 25)
2 sets of side planks- 45 seconds each
3 sets of hanging leg raises
Any thoughts?

Dump the planks do this instead:

Declined Situps 3x15 or failure, when you complete one attempt, next workout add weight (hold a weight plate and increase the weight slightly workout through workout)

 

[msdstc]

You decrease the weight increments. If you were adding 10# on the OHP on each session, you will now add 5#. If you were adding #5, you now will increase #2.5. Even down to 2# increments a week is advisable. You will still be advancing no less than 3# a week.

If you did 95 5/5/5 and then 105 5/5/4, next training session you should attempt 110x3x5



SS is based on calculated increments and steady progression. You add the amount that makes it easier to keep adding weight workout through workout.

Thanks for any help!





Dump the planks do this instead:

Declined Situps 3x15 or failure, when done, add weight (hold a weight plate and increase the weight slightly workout through workout)

Dump the planks? Is that the consensus around here? I've heard nothing but good things about planks. So the declined situps, plus the hanging leg raises? Is there any good way to do the declined situps from home? I don't go to a gym, would be a shame to go to a gym for one exercise.


edit- also I'm TERRIBLE at the pullups at the moment. I'm doing the wide grip hands facing out, only getting a few before failure.

 

[muntersaur]

Dump the planks? Is that the consensus around here? I've heard nothing but good things about planks. So the declined situps, plus the hanging leg raises? Is there any good way to do the declined situps from home? I don't go to a gym, would be a shame to go to a gym for one exercise.

There is nothing wrong with planks. Do them if you want.

 

[Future PhaZe]

fucked up at GNC last week

got a full box of peanut butter supreme (its awful) on a discount and them shits were hard as a brick and tasted like gutter trash

apple pie ftw

 

[Petrie]

fucked up at GNC last week

got a full box of peanut butter supreme (its awful) on a discount and them shits were hard as a brick and tasted like gutter trash

apple pie ftw

This guy has no taste. PB Supreme is awesome. It's a mid-tier bar at worst.

My current rankings:

Cookie Dough
Cinnaroll
Brownie
PBJ
PB Supreme
Quest PB Cups

***insert all other shitty flavors below in whatever order you feel like***

 

[Cooter]

fucked up at GNC last week

got a full box of peanut butter supreme (its awful) on a discount and them shits were hard as a brick and tasted like gutter trash

apple pie ftw

You must have had a bad batch because it's a solid #2 on my list!

 

[blackflag]

Broken tastebuds or broken box. PB Supreme is thick and delicious.

So they are 25.00 a box again? And they have white Chocolate Raspberry? BRB........

 

[Dilli666]

It really needs to go into the OP, along with this:

http://www.strstd.com/

Thanks for that one! I wanted to try 5/3/1 for a longer time and this site really helps in rotting my calc skills even further ;-)

Anyone ever tried the 'Big But Boring' 5/3/1 routine? Looks interesting for me to try, but I stumbled upon the '5x10 reps at 50%' of the daily exercise after the main set. Coming from Starting Strength this will probably totally sore my muscles.

 

[kevo_huevo]

fucked up at GNC last week

got a full box of peanut butter supreme (its awful) on a discount and them shits were hard as a brick and tasted like gutter trash

apple pie ftw

come on bae.

lol but seriously, did you try nuking them in the microwave for like 8-10 seconds?

 

[a secret-boss]

fucked up at GNC last week

got a full box of peanut butter supreme (its awful) on a discount and them shits were hard as a brick and tasted like gutter trash

apple pie ftw

Just bought this last week and it is pretty good.
Might be a bad batch

 

[thomaser]

Shogun 265lb OHP bitches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGpcINp5z0E

His ohp max is my squat and deadlift max. I'm going to ly dow.

Edit: Actually, when I think about it those are my 3x5 and 1x5 maxes. Haven't tried to find my 1 rep max. Feeling a little better now, lying here in the corner.

 

[Nelo Ice]

I'm going to hit every GNC on my way home.

White Chocolate Raspberry, your sweet ass is mine!!!!

I will buy up at least 2 boxes if I can find white chocolate at any of my GNCs.

 

[Petrie]

Thanks for that one! I wanted to try 5/3/1 for a longer time and this site really helps in rotting my calc skills even further ;-)

Anyone ever tried the 'Big But Boring' 5/3/1 routine? Looks interesting for me to try, but I stumbled upon the '5x10 reps at 50%' of the daily exercise after the main set. Coming from Starting Strength this will probably totally sore my muscles.

Worked better for me on lower body than upper. Had to do 60%+ to get anything out of bench press. Really enjoyed the program though I did the version where you do 5/3/1 squats the BBB Deads and vice versa, same thing with Bench/OHP.

 

[SeanR1221]

His ohp max is my squat and deadlift max. I'm going to ly dow.

Edit: Actually, when I think about it those are my 3x5 and 1x5 maxes. Haven't tried to find my 1 rep max. Feeling a little better now, lying here in the corner.

Shogun would say its all relative, bud. Keep training.

Worked better for me on lower body than upper. Had to do 60%+ to get anything out of bench press. Really enjoyed the program though I did the version where you do 5/3/1 squats the BBB Deads and vice versa, same thing with Bench/OHP.

Maybe I was going too heavy but I feel like BBB was responsible for my lower back :/

I won't go back to volume like that for a long time. I wish I could make it work though.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Shogun 265lb OHP bitches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGpcINp5z0E

Jesus Christ... I was feeling good about reaching 80lb (3x5) last week

 

[Future PhaZe]

You must have had a bad batch because it's a solid #2 on my list!

hey, they gave me a discount on it for a reason!

I think it was about to expire ;_;

i tried to go a little too cheap on the quest bars lul

 

[thomaser]

Shogun would say its all relative, bud. Keep training.

Of course. I'm proud of what I can do Shogun's lift is just awe-inspiring.

 

[Future PhaZe]

shogun

;_;

cant wait to start bulking again

 

[andycapps]

Isn't it supposed to be lean mass, not total mass?

Believe so.

 

[sphinx]

fuck my life... after a month of stalling in OHP, I thought I'd try 42.5 kgs, even if it was only 3x3, turns out I did 5,5, but in the last set fucking 4!!! (( I made it to the middle of the last rep and then the bar stood there halfway for like 5-7 seconds but I feared for my lower back and decided to bail out, thinking this isn't a sprint but a marathon....

regardless, My body is getting used to the exercise, I know I'll get better at it. Before I'd curl my upper body and have very shitty form, but it's getting better.

OHP is soooooo incredibly taxing, respect to shogun for that video.

I am really loving that exercise lately, It makes me feel powerful in a way no other MC does.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

fuck my life... after a month of stalling in OHP, I thought I'd try 42.5 kgs, even if it was only 3x3, turns out I did 5,5, but in the last set fucking 4!!! (( I made it to the middle of the last rep and then the bar stood there halfway for like 5-7 seconds but I feared for my lower back and decided to bail out, thinking this isn't a sprint but a marathon....

regardless, My body is getting used to the exercise, I know I'll get better at it. Before I'd curl my upper body and have very shitty form, but it's getting better.

OHP in soooooo incredibly taxing, respect to shogun for that video.

I am really loving that exercise lately, It makes me feel powerful in a way no other MC does.

OHP is amazing and humbling. You're almost there brah! You're so close!

 

[Petrie]

Shogun would say its all relative, bud. Keep training.



Maybe I was going too heavy but I feel like BBB was responsible for my lower back :/

I won't go back to volume like that for a long time. I wish I could make it work though.

That's why I prefer the alternating variation. 5/3/1 deads followed by BBB Squats isn't as brutal as 65 reps of deadlifts.

 

[SeanR1221]

That's why I prefer the alternating variation. 5/3/1 deads followed by BBB Squats isn't as brutal as 65 reps of deadlifts.

This is definitely true.

Add in front squats and my squat day was brutal :/

 

[Petrie]

This is definitely true.

Add in front squats and my squat day was brutal :/

No need for all that man, you know this!

65 reps of squats/deads? That's a leg day, throw in some calf raises and leg curls if you want, with some very light good mornings for good measure.

 

[ACE 1991]

Are there any good barbell exercises that hit the same muscles as rowing? I just can't seem to get the form right, and I'm afraid I'm really going to hurt my lower back if I keep doing them.

 

[SeanR1221]

No need for all that man, you know this!

65 reps of squats/deads? That's a leg day, throw in some calf raises and leg curls if you want, with some very light good mornings for good measure.

It was definitely poor programming. Did I mention the power cleans on dead day?

 

[sphinx]

OHP is amazing and humbling. You're almost there brah! You're so close!

it was a very succesful day today!

I upped the reps of my dips, I now do 13 unassisted, I still remember my Nov12-January13 months where I'd reach the 8th rep with my grip and my triceps absolutely crushed.

Bench Dips are getting better as well, I remember doing like 15 back then and getting exhausted, now I do 20 weighted (33 lbs)

 

[Petrie]

Are there any good barbell exercises that hit the same muscles as rowing? I just can't seem to get the form right, and I'm afraid I'm really going to hurt my lower back if I keep doing them.

Drop the weight and continue to perfect the form with just the bar.

 

[SeanR1221]

Are there any good barbell exercises that hit the same muscles as rowing? I just can't seem to get the form right, and I'm afraid I'm really going to hurt my lower back if I keep doing them.

Upload a video of you doing them. It's hard to bang out rows. I know when I try to my form deteriorates. I take them pretty slow, but it's very explosive

 

[ACE 1991]

Drop the weight and continue to perfect the form with just the bar.

That's probably a good idea, I'll just keep the weight at 120 instead of increasing it with this cycle. Any form tips, particularly with regards to reducing lower back pain?

 

[blackflag]

I will buy up at least 2 boxes if I can find white chocolate at any of my GNCs.

Leaving to check in a minute. If GNC doesn't have them I know another local store does. They are 27 dollars a box there with tax but whatevs.

 

[blackflag]

Shogun 265lb OHP bitches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGpcINp5z0E

Good grief. Mine last I checked was 205 and it felt like my arms were going to shear off.

 

[Petrie]

That's probably a good idea, I'll just keep the weight at 120 instead of increasing it with this cycle. Any form tips, particularly with regards to reducing lower back pain?

My tip is to check your ego and not keep the weight at 120 if you are worried about form. Drop the weight substantially and make sure your form is perfect, then increae it slowly.

Make sure you aren't arching your back, but the most important think for your form is to check your ego and lower the weight.

 

[ACE 1991]

My tip is to check your ego and not keep the weight at 120 if you are worried about form. Drop the weight substantially and make sure your form is perfect, then increae it slowly.

Make sure you aren't arching your back, but the most important think for your form is to check your ego and lower the weight.

Okay, thanks.


On a side note, I'm a week away from finishing my cut. I went from 169-160 and am ready to bulk. I think going for a 1lb a week will definitely end up with me getting bigger in all the wrong places; it's unfortunate, but although my frame is small I put on fat super easily. Would going for a bulk which gains me .5lb/week be too conservative?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I want to know what Shogun started at. The interesting thing is the journey, not the end-result.

The gym is #struggling and suddenly missing important shit, and my elbows causing me some problems with the pull-ups, so I'm adjusting my work-out routine by just a bit for next cycle.

Still going with a variation of Periodization bible:

Monday - OHP
Lateral raise
Tricep pushdowns
Shrugs (might just do skull crushers instead)
Preacher curls
Sideplanks

Wednesday - Deadlift
Pull-ups (3x10) or Pull-down (5x10)
Lower back extension
Reverse grip bent over BB rows
One-arm seated row
Weighted crunch

Friday - Bench Press
DB flyes
Hammer curls
DB decline
Dip (3x10) or Tricep pushdowns
Planks

Sunday - Squat
Leg extension
BB/DB step-up
Glute-ham raise
BB calf raise
Hanging leg raise

 

[Cudder]

Okay, thanks.


On a side note, I'm a week away from finishing my cut. I went from 169-160 and am ready to bulk. I think going for a 1lb a week will definitely end up with me getting bigger in all the wrong places; it's unfortunate, but although my frame is small I put on fat super easily. Would going for a bulk which gains me .5lb/week be too conservative?

Why did you cut in the first place if your frame is small?

9lbs is a pretty minmal cut, how long did it take you to do it? If it didn't take you that long (which it shouldn't have), jumping from cut to bulk cycles quickly like that is not preferred. Or maybe you just did a really slow cut, I dunno.

 

[Cooter]

It's very possible I may walk out of GNC with 12 boxes of quest bars in 20 minutes! Haha

 

[ACE 1991]

Why did you cut in the first place if your frame is small?

9lbs is a pretty minmal cut, how long did it take you to do it? If it didn't take you that long (which it shouldn't have), jumping from cut to bulk cycles quickly like that is not preferred. Or maybe you just did a really slow cut, I dunno.

Honestly it took me like 9 weeks. I just wanted to drop some fat before bulking, I wasn't happy with how I looked after not counting calories or anything outside attempting to get 160g of protein a day while studying abroad in Australia. I track absolutely everything I eat in MFP now, so I'm looking forward to some real gains over the ensuing months.

 

[Cooter]

WTF! How can GNCs in different parts of the country have different pricing? Mine was 25 and change a box with my gold card and with buy 3 get 1 free. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. Fuck!!

 

[Chittagong]

My tip is to check your ego and not keep the weight at 120 if you are worried about form. Drop the weight substantially and make sure your form is perfect, then increae it slowly.

Make sure you aren't arching your back, but the most important think for your form is to check your ego and lower the weight.

yeah after I did my record 110lb on SS I certainly felt it in my lower back the next day. searched videos and found out about the arching. I guess it's time to drop the weights a bit and perfect the form again.

Same for squat, lower weight for getting lower, with less butt wink. And in bench, I am now touching chest on every rep. So trying to nail it all. In deadlift I need to learn the first rep even better, as a tall guy I find it hard to lift things of the ground without arching my back.

I guess I have just to keep faith in that the gains will follow even if I go a bit lower to perfect the form.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Okay, thanks.


On a side note, I'm a week away from finishing my cut. I went from 169-160 and am ready to bulk. I think going for a 1lb a week will definitely end up with me getting bigger in all the wrong places; it's unfortunate, but although my frame is small I put on fat super easily. Would going for a bulk which gains me .5lb/week be too conservative?

You're basically in the same position as me.
I did a bit of a "dirty" bulk, and while that did add on mass, it added on some hard to remove fat, that I've now been cutting down on for weeks.

What I'm doing, and suggesting you do too, is take a look at the following calculator:

http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

Pick lightly active for "Activity", and under tab 3 pick "Lean massing", 1.5g protein per LBM, and select a macro of your carb/fat/protein suitable for packing on lean mass and losing fat.
What I'm going with is sub-100g carbs on my rest days, and 150-200g of carbs on my workout days. You could also do carb cycling like someone else in the thread was doing, or just go keto/low-carb all the time to ensure that fat has a hard time clinging onto your body.

There's also research (need to find a source for this) that suggests that you can only ever get 0.1-0.05% of your lean body mass weight as gains every month.
So if you weigh 160 lbs, you should only expect 1.6lbs of your monthly weight gains to be in the form of muscles. If you're gaining more than 1.6lbs a month, then the surplus is fat.

 

[kevo_huevo]

WTF! How can GNCs in different parts of the country have different pricing? Mine was 25 and change a box with my gold card and with buy 3 get 1 free. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. Fuck!!

I suppose because they *might* be franchised, so the individual owners *might* be able to take liberties with inventory and pricing?

I feel you, I am never going to the GNC across the street from where I live because the employees and owner(s) are rude and they always have dick pricing. I now go out of my way to get better prices -- and it's not absurd like the 'drive 5 miles out of the way to save on 2 cents a gallon of gas' analogy. These are big time savings.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Yup. I'll probably buy 8 boxes this weekend.



My hands will have to be cold and dead for you to do that. Don't underestimate my grip strength when it comes to quest bars.

Can't blame people who sacrifice things for finding something so good yet nutritionally dense and getting excited about great prices on it!

Sure I can. BRING IT.

 

[Teggy]

Post workout meal, vacation style.

#teamtemporarybulk

 

[Spiritreaver]

Honestly it took me like 9 weeks. I just wanted to drop some fat before bulking, I wasn't happy with how I looked after not counting calories or anything outside attempting to get 160g of protein a day while studying abroad in Australia. I track absolutely everything I eat in MFP now, so I'm looking forward to some real gains over the ensuing months.

9 weeks for a 9 lb cut? Good work bud, although BF% would be a better meausure at those kinds of weight changes.

Regardless. It sounds like you're doing the right things.

EDIT: Food porn ain't allowed in this thread unless you're gonna share. WHERE'S MY BEEF?

 

[ACE 1991]

9 weeks for a 9 lb cut? Good work bud, although BF% would be a better meausure at those kinds of weight changes.

Regardless. It sounds like you're doing the right things.

EDIT: Food porn ain't allowed in this thread unless you're gonna share. WHERE'S MY BEEF?

Thanks! I can't wait to start bulking. Quick question, I'm trying to use this calculator to calculate how much I should be eating to bulk: If I'm lifting 3x a week for 50-60 minutes and cycling 20 miles once a week, would this fall under moderate or lightly active? (BMRx1.55 vs. 1.375)

I'm thinking shooting for .5lb/week should be a good bulking target for me, given that I put on fat pretty easily. Do you guys shoot for 1lb/week on bulks?