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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky

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Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
kiyomi said:
I mean, it's easy to forget that at one point, people were calling for Grosjean to have multiple race bans and even removed from the sport because of his crashfest in.. 2012? I feel like that's what Toto's trying to say, unfortunately he underestimated the headline that would come out of it and the way people would see it.
Click to expand...

Firsy lap nutcase strikes again!

https://youtu.be/a99BclCyquw
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
JDB said:
Let's put aside for a moment whether or not this was a penalty-worthy offense; not giving people penalties because it would be a shame is silly. Just because they're fighting for the championship doesn't mean they play by different rules.
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Rolfgang said:
Positioning in the WDC shouldn't matter when stewards make a call, nor the current place for quali. If a driver makes a mistake that requires a penalty, then a penalty should be given.

No one should be exempt from that because they compete for the WDC, unless where does it end? What offense will deserve a penalty? Who exactly competes for the WDC? Is it only the top 3 or does RIC also counts? Just all those questions and debatable things are exactly the reason stuff like that shouldn't matter when stewards make the call.
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What I'm saying is that we don't need to stick to the rules literally all the time. An example for that is football (soccer), especially when giving yellow/red cards. Sometimes the referee is more lenient to ensure he doesn't ruin the whole match

If it was an offense that was deemed dangerous or something that really affects the outcome then yes, he should not be spared.

IMHO he was at fault, but I'm happy with the stewards call
 
P

Psychotext

Member
DBT85 said:
Ah, you're not supposed to only hear F1 cars with your ears, that's your problem, you're supposed to hear it because your liver is quivering away inside your torso and your kidneys are trying to explode.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of some of the GT cars at Le Mans. Full on beasts.
 
J

Juicy Bob

Member
DBT85 said:
Ah, you're not supposed to only hear F1 cars with your ears, that's your problem, you're supposed to hear it because your liver is quivering away inside your torso and your kidneys are trying to explode.
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I'm a fan of progress in Formula 1 and like the V6 turbos - but this is true.

Those V10s sounded astonishing with their high pitch, while the V8s were just raw, unfiltered loudness. Energy that, like you say, you just felt in your whole body.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Psychotext said:
Reminds me of some of the GT cars at Le Mans. Full on beasts.
Click to expand...

Yeah. My only experience of any of the cars was at goodwood. I was standing behind some of the bales of hay probably 6 years ago when some of the F1 cars were pulling up and stopping on the track and then lighting the tyres up. Just so much noise.

It's not a dissimilar feeling to being near the Vulcan when its taking off.

Juicy Bob said:
I'm a fan of progress in Formula 1 and like the V6 turbos - but this is true.
Click to expand...

Oh don't get me wrong, I like you accept that they need to make technological progress, we can't just go back to 20,000 rpm V12s or whatever as much as we might want to.

I mean listen to this shit man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWSt4CDNvgQ

Hopefully the new engine formula from 2020 will bring back some of the noise and make the units cheaper and simpler. Though I did hear talk of twin turbos and keeping the energy stuff but maybe making it a spec part.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Myoclonic Jerk said:
What I'm saying is that we don't need to stick to the rules literally all the time. An example for that is football (soccer), especially when giving yellow/red cards. Sometimes the referee is more lenient to ensure he doesn't ruin the whole match

If it was an offense that was deemed dangerous or something that really affects the outcome then yes, he should not be spared.

IMHO he was at fault, but I'm happy with the stewards call
Click to expand...

Yeah that is a tricky situation though. What is the rule here? Do you not penalize the championship leader and contender every time? Do you not penalize anyone in a fun fight? Do you not penalize a McLaren when they are in a point scoring position?

A rule is a rule and it should be a clear cut case here. Impede another driver intentionally so you do not impede the start of your own lap = set punishment. Same punishment every time. Just doesn't sit right by me to not be consistent dependant on who you are in the championship standings or if you are in front of your home crowd or not. Not a fan.
 
Z

ZanzibarBreeze

Member
It's clear Lewis impeded Grosjean and affected his position in the classification (if Haas reckon Grosjean lost .300, that'd put Grosjean over SVD at P9). This video is especially damning. But he was obviously never going to be penalized. And to be frank, given they did nothing to Vettel over the Baku thing, I don't think they could have done anything to Hamilton here. You cannot intentionally hit a driver and get away with nothing more than a drive-through or stop-go (I can't remember which). They couldn't do nothing to Vettel and then ding Hamilton here for an issue with going slow in a corner.

I reckon the officiating needs a serious look, and I'd rather they become a lot sterner than they are now. In retrospect, some of the penalties Rosberg picked up last year now look properly unfair in light of the things that've been let go this year.

anyways as a Lewis fan that was a cracking lap and I'm happy it stood
 
J

Juicy Bob

Member
Team ABT need to swap Daniel with Di Grassi.

Oh, and since I've been out all day, Grosjean has every right to be fucked off with the stewards IMO.
 
T

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
They really need to improve clearing cars in Formula-E.

There's just 1 track marshall pushing that car (with Heidfeld's help).
 
V

valkyre

Member
Waveset said:
This is the first GP I've attended but I can't believe people want louder cars, these things are beasts!
Click to expand...

First time i went to a grand prix race was back in 99 at Imola.(i've been a total of 4 times so far)

I remember hearing the engines while we were still driving in our car, thinking that we must be really close to the racetrack...

I was so wrong, that I will always remember this... truth is we were quite a few minutes away from the track and the sound was still so loud that one would think that the cars were just racing a few meters away from us... Godlike.

I remember receiving my earplugs together with the tickets.

I also remember not wearing them because i just had to feel the vibrations of my eardrum when those beasts were flying by us.

And I also remember being on the grandstand right before start up when all the engines were revving... thats the only moment where I just had to cover my ears...it became absolutely painful....

Then I remember Hakkinen crashing right in front of us and the tifosi going absolutely NUTS with Schumi winning the race.

And then heading to Maranello to visit the Ferrari museum.

What an awesome, magnificent, Godlike day that was...
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Aiii said:
Yeah that is a tricky situation though. What is the rule here? Do you not penalize the championship leader and contender every time? Do you not penalize anyone in a fun fight? Do you not penalize a McLaren when they are in a point scoring position?

A rule is a rule and it should be a clear cut case here. Impede another driver intentionally so you do not impede the start of your own lap = set punishment. Same punishment every time. Just doesn’t sit right by me to not be consistent dependant on who you are in the championship standings or if you are in front of your home crowd or not. Not a fan.
Click to expand...

Fair point. especially on where to draw the line..
 
D

DBT85

Member
Aiii said:
A rule is a rule and it should be a clear cut case here. Impede another driver intentionally so you do not impede the start of your own lap = set punishment. Same punishment every time. Just doesn’t sit right by me to not be consistent dependant on who you are in the championship standings or if you are in front of your home crowd or not. Not a fan.
Click to expand...

The issue as soon as you include the word "intentionally" is proving that it was intentional. It's the same issue Football has with handball.

From that one overhead shot, if he pulls away 2/10ths earlier nobody would have even thought it might be a problem as 200ths is a long distance.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
DBT85 said:
The issue as soon as you include the word "intentionally" is proving that it was intentional. It's the same issue Football has with handball.

From that one overhead shot, if he pulls away 2/10ths earlier nobody would have even thought it might be a problem as 200ths is a long distance.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Maybe intentionally is not the right word. Maybe it should be undoubtedly. Intention is hard to orove, I can agree on that. But that he got in the way of Grosjean seems pretty clear cut from that video to me.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Aiii said:
Fair enough. Maybe intentionally is not the right word. Maybe it should be undoubtedly. Intention is hard to orove, I can agree on that. But that he got in the way of Grosjean seems pretty clear cut from that video to me.
Click to expand...

It sure looks like he did, though it doesn't help that Grosjean had a large closing speed as he approached the corner so it looks like he's had to slam the anchors on to avoid Lewis when probably 95% of it was to just hit the apex.

I could have understood them penalising him and had it not been the start of his hot lap they surely would have done, ie, were it a few corners earlier and he clearly just wanted to keep him behind.

If a Merc/Ferrari were closing on a Sauber (on a hot lap) in those 2 corners and got held up would that be a penalty or would it be ok because they are just slower cars?

For me it doesn't look like Hamilton did anything he shouldn't have done with the information he was given. If the team felt Grosjean was going to catch him before the corner they should have told him and maybe he could have slowed more on that stretch to allow him past.
 
J

John_B

Member
Where are all the "let them race" comments from back when Vettel bumped into Hamilton? Now it's all about the rules are the rules.

We absolutely need consistency. It's not satisfactory to see rulings go against precedent without clear reason. Admittedly the system will never be perfect as many situations are not clear cut and hard to rule.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
I think most of this thread were in favor of Vettel getting punished. The debate was mostly between people saying his punishment was enough and people saying he needed a black flag or a race ban.

Do not think many people, if any at all, said that he should have not gotten any penalty.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Aiii said:
I think most of this thread were in favor of Vettel getting punished. The debate was mostly between people saying his punishment was enough and people saying he needed a black flag or a race ban.

Do not think many people, if any at all, said that he should have not gotten any penalty.
Click to expand...

It was fun watching people tying to blame Hamilton for the initial crash though, and even continuing after actual facts were presented lol.
 
T

tonka

Member
I'd be much happier if they just said nope, no penalty.
What they have said is, Grosjean was affected, but fuck it, no penalty for Hamilton this time.

Like I'm sure whoever wrote it probably had no ulterior intentions, but conspiracies have been based on less.

Kimi to win tomorrow and end his dry spell. (If only)

Fernando to have most overtakes.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
DBT85 said:
It was fun watching people tying to blame Hamilton for the initial crash though, and even continuing after actual facts were presented lol.
Click to expand...

During the race I was sure Hamilton did a brake test and Vettel accidentally hit him while gesturing (still stupid but not as dumb as what he actually did) and I am fine admitting that. I did not have all the facts at that time so I am okay with getting it wrong.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Aiii said:
During the race I was sure Hamilton did a brake test and Vettel accidentally hit him while gesturing (still stupid but not as dumb as what he actually did) and I am fine admitting that. I did not have all the facts at that time so I am okay with getting it wrong.
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Oh wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular. Lets just say that some were a little more vociferous than others lol.
 
H

hamchan

Member
Spades said:
If GRO did the exact same thing to HAM, costing him pole position, you're telling me that GRO wouldn't have received a penalty?
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Pretty much. There have always been double standards in F1 and it's crazy that there's no consistency considering how much money is pored into it.
 
D

DamonForever

Member
Aiii said:
During the race I was sure Hamilton did a brake test and Vettel accidentally hit him while gesturing (still stupid but not as dumb as what he actually did) and I am fine admitting that. I did not have all the facts at that time so I am okay with getting it wrong.
Click to expand...

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If I remember right, the reasoning was HAM did it 3 times, so it was apparently okay. Would've been way more interesting had it just been the one occasion.
 
Z

Zaru

Member
Anyone expecting anything but an easy Hamilton victory tomorrow?
Even if Vettel can keep the pace there's no way he's getting past Hamilton under normal circumstances.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
I'll largely be watching just for what goes on further down the field. I reckon the top three will be.

1: Hamilton (by a mile)
2: Vettel
3: Bottas (because Raikonnen race pace)
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
Zaru said:
Anyone expecting anything but an easy Hamilton victory tomorrow?
Even if Vettel can keep the pace there's no way he's getting past Hamilton under normal circumstances.
Click to expand...

This isn't a power track anymore like it used to be. I watched how the Mercedes goes through the esses. It's super fast in cornering, noticably better than the ferrari.

Unless there's rain and chaos occurs, whoever is leading after the 1st few laps will win easily, especially if it's a mercedes.
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
DBT85 said:
Yeah. My only experience of any of the cars was at goodwood. I was standing behind some of the bales of hay probably 6 years ago when some of the F1 cars were pulling up and stopping on the track and then lighting the tyres up. Just so much noise.

It's not a dissimilar feeling to being near the Vulcan when its taking off.
Click to expand...

I was directly under a Antonov An-124 taking off with a locomotive for cargo. There is no louder engine sound on earth (i assume). At the 2:47~8 mark you see our cars parked at the end of the runway.

The only F1 engine i have heard up close was an Alpha Romeo 158 at an auto show. It was glorious.
 
D

DBT85

Member
The AN-124 actually doesn't use engines that are that huge at a mere 229.5 kN (51,600 lbf) each.

The 777 uses the GE90 that can go up to 513.9 kN (115,540 lbf).

But yeah, I imaging an Antonov trying to take off with a train on board might make a mighty racket! lol
 
R

Razgreez

Member
DarkJediKnight said:
C'mon. Orders being flipped is what makes F1 fun sometimes. It's how you get winners like Maldonado.
Click to expand...

Maldonado would likely have gotten 2nd place anyway had Hamilton not been demoted. He was rapid all race weekend so it's not like him winning that particular race was some major last minute rain affected lottery or upset
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
DBT85 said:
Nice to see Hamilton on pole.



Ah, you're not supposed to only hear F1 cars with your ears, that's your problem, you're supposed to hear it because your liver is quivering away inside your torso and your kidneys are trying to explode.



ayeee
Click to expand...

Psychotext said:
Reminds me of some of the GT cars at Le Mans. Full on beasts.
Click to expand...

Indeed, when I went to Le Mans the Panoz GTR and other cars like it made your body shake when they went passed.

Epic car sounds.
 
B

Born2Live

Member
So im at Silverstone for my first ever GP with the wife. Pitched up at the end of the Hanger Straight watching the F2 race, these things sound absolutely mental.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Leclerc is phenomal, what a driver. He better be in that Haas next year.

De Vries not doing to shabby, either. Would not be surprised if he was at Prema next year.
 
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