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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

p3tran

Banned
I'm pretty sure a lot of people in here don't know how RAM works.
One way to find out.
Majestic-Ram.jpg

.
 
Your username should be "ThoughtsOfNotSpeaking".


Attack the name not the arguement. Cute. My point stands. In terms of value proposition, how has the PS4 not lost ground against the Xbox 1. Whether 4.5gb of ram is "good enough" for now is besides the point? The console was promoted as something and now we find it is something else. Im not going to do the same mental gymnastics to be ok with that. Less ram + More OS bloat = worth less money. Simples.
 
Lol this thread

Give me 4x TLOU everyday the rest of my life I'd die happy. I think we're too jaded honestly. Just 3 years ago 2 gbs on my laptop was a godsend.

Just loom at it thia way you're still getting mustang just not with custom spinners lol wow.
 
Outside of stupid gifs do you have something to argue? because if you do, lets hear it. Why should I buy on day one the same console that is now more limited in in scope than known previously? I dont want a Media box. I want a games console.
It is a games console. They're reserving some RAM just in case. Devs (aka those who actually know what the fuck is going on) have absolutely no problem with the PS4 RAM. John Bellomy (from Naughty Dog) tweeted that their devs are "giddy" about the GPU, and that "the amount of parallel execution available is just nutso," which has me thinking this truly is a damn fine console.

Let's just step back, take a breath, and realize that the console is a) still more powerful than its competition at a lower price, and b) still just as capable a machine as it was yesterday (meaning every kind thing a developer has said about it and its power still holds up, since they've known about this since forever).
 
If the OS is so horribly unoptimized as to require 3.5 GB of RAM, that's a problem. With that much RAM being blocked off, we should have a 3d interface along the lines of something akin to Home, but much better that we log in to. At least the 3GB of RAM being blocked off on the One is being used for something. People ridiculed the One for MS blocking off so much RAM and not being game-oriented, so Sony deserves just as much, and in my opinion, MORE criticism for actually blocking off more RAM and not doing anything of note with it. The one is kinect integrated, has all the DVR functionality and is running 3 OSs... so it at least is being used for a purpose, which I don't particularly care for as I'd rather have those resources be available for games. What has Sony shown that could possibly take up 3.5, much less 2 GB of RAM in the OS?

What we know.
Xbox One is no DVR subsititute... Got that one out of the way.

What we don't know
If PS4 OS is built with move capabilities like the Xbox One OS.

What we really don't know
How accurate all of this is.
 

Gold_Loot

Member
I swear to god I stepped into some strange bizarre realm where GAF has turned into some strange carnival of stupid. The hell is going on in here?
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
It amazes me how many people are forgetting that the OS can be streamlined and optimized to use less RAM, which is what they did on PS3. Do any of you honestly think Sony won't attempt to optimize the OS as the generation goes on?
They've almost doubled the RAM allocation for OS just to have a huge reserve for ???

This isn't a matter of mere "streamlining". This is a matter of having an effective sense of the direction you want to take the console in. Putting aside that much RAM "just in case" doesn't convey that they have a good sense of where their priorities are.
 
And for all that, I don't think there will ever be a point where the average gamer will look at both systems and and think: "Wow, PS4 is way more powerful than XB1!".
The fact that the 'weaker' and yet 'more difficult to program' console(according to Mark Cerny's own breakdown on architectural choice differences) is holding it's own pretty well, should be a reminder that there's a whole lot more to performance than raw theoretical numbers.

Once you've crossed a certain threshold - as both of these consoles have - you're going to need a whole lot more than 50% more raw power to show a significant difference on screen. In fact, I predict that the best exclusive games on both consoles will generally stand head-to-head, and 5 yrs down the line, the bulk of PS-GAF will keep insisting: "That major graphical leap over XB1 is coming... just wait... any day now... "
I've saved this post for future reference.
 
OK, if true, the PS4 has nothing to offer for me. Underwhelming games, underwhelming features, and its starting to look like a specs upgrade of the PS3 with nothing innovative to offer.
My girlfriend wants a Xbone anyway because of the voice control, motion sensory and instant switch.
Oh well, I should try something new anyway.
 
I am paying 399.99 for 8gigs and to have almost half wasted on features I don't want is not good. There is nothing but bloat. . .
Sony should clear up these rumors soon or identify why the extra stuff when x1 has Kinect and stuff to explain the bloat. It still has the more powerful console so this isn't a big setback/

Some people are going to be shocked when they play these new consoles on their 1080p TVs.
1080p but lots of motion blur and framedrops below 30fps amirite?
 

Hydrargyrus

Member
So, when they only had 4GB, they talked to the most important developers (and his first party studios) and all that they did was to put another 4GB that no one could use and that no one wants for shitty things in the OS... and increase the price.

Bravo Sony.
 

farisr

Member
How does the fact that resolution isn't really increasing this time around affect system and RAM requirements? Last gen had a lot higher res bump to deal with. This time it's very similar... Less increase in pixels to eat up memory? More emphasis on quality?

Pixel counts:

ps2/xbox = 307,200 (some games on the xbox could do 1,036,800)

ps3/360 = 921,600 (a good amount of games do less than that, some less intensive games do 2,073,600.)

ps4/x1 = 2,073,600 (I doubt we'll be seeing any games less than that).

So yeah, just looking at that. The max pixel counts that the Xbox/PS2 gen could deliver was actually higher than the standard resolution we game in, in this gen.

The max pixel count this gen could deliver on was what is going to be standard in next-gen.

So, doesn't seem like a small jump to me.
 
Attack the name not the arguement. Cute. My point stands. In terms of value proposition, how has the PS4 not lost ground against the Xbox 1. Whether 4.5gb of ram is "good enough" for now is besides the point? The console was promoted as something and now we find it is something else. Im not going to do the same mental gymnastics to be ok with that. Less ram + More OS bloat = worth less money. Simples.

It was advertised as 8GB of RAM, and that's what you're getting.
 
Here's hoping. It's still just such a "wind out of the sails" moment to have such an easily explained advantage taken away, even if it can be recovered from later.
True. But devs just don't need it right now, so Sony is doing the right thing here. It would be troubling if just one dev would complain, but no one is doing it. Every dev is going to max out the GPU first before ever hitting 4.5 GB of RAM. It is better this way than fucking up the launch with a slow messy OS. It will be bloated, but it will be fast and responsive Day 1 unlike the WiiU. Games will look great. Sony can work their magic in the background and reduce the bloat while keeping the OS just as responsive with optimizing. No one will notice and devs will get the RAM once they need it.

It is really the best strategy. Not for message boards pre-release, but for the actual launch and the word of mouth.
 

Cidd

Member
To be honest I was expecting a lot worse. 4.5/5.5GB for games and will increase as time goes on and the OS is optimized isn't bad. A spec downgrade would be a nightmare but this meh.

I think Sony is just trying to stay equal with MS after what happened with the PS3 and the whole cross game chat thing.
 
OK, if true, the PS4 has nothing to offer for me. Underwhelming games, underwhelming features, and its starting to look like a specs upgrade of the PS3 with nothing innovative to offer.
My girlfriend wants a Xbone anyway because of the voice control, motion sensory and instant switch.
Oh well, I should try something new anyway.

Sounds like you were sold on the Xbox One from day One.

PS4 still offers 50% gpu upgrade. That is a lot more than any ram difference will ever be for gaming. >.> Don't kid yourself the PS4 is still the powerhouse with the better ram.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
And for all that, I don't think there will ever be a point where the average gamer will look at both systems and and think: "Wow, PS4 is way more powerful than XB1!".
The fact that the 'weaker' and yet 'more difficult to program' console(according to Mark Cerny's own breakdown on architectural choice differences) is holding it's own pretty well, should be a reminder that there's a whole lot more to performance than raw theoretical numbers.

Once you've crossed a certain threshold - as both of these consoles have - you're going to need a whole lot more than 50% more raw power to show a significant difference on screen. In fact, I predict that the best exclusive games on both consoles will generally stand head-to-head, and 5 yrs down the line, the bulk of PS-GAF will keep insisting: "That major graphical leap over XB1 is coming... just wait... any day now... "

So pray tell how Xbone is going to output better graphics than its rival which has already been technically proven to be stronger?
 

iammeiam

Member
I swear to god I stepped into some strange bizarre realm where GAF has turned into some strange carnival of stupid. The hell is going on in here?

One side senses a potential chink in the other's previously flawless armor, and is moving in for the kill, even though the damage is largely cosmetic. The other side is desperately trying to pretend that what was lost was never bandied about as an advantage before. Honor is on the line!

Also rams.
 

amr

Banned
To be honest I was expecting a lot worse. 4.5/5.5GB for games and will increase as time goes on and the OS is optimized. A spec downgrade would be a nightmare but this meh.

I think Sony is just trying to stay equal with the MS after what happened with the PS3 and the whole cross game chat thing.
Stop being reasonable!
 
I was going with YouTube's recommended settings for uploading, which are admittedly kinda high. If you got that figure from downloading a video, I believe it's because YouTube transcodes/compresses to a lower bitrate for playback.

I got that figure from a pro video editor who I work with a lot. (I'm a photographer/videographer by trade.) His biggest client is an action sports company that does a lot of HD YouTube stuff for promotions.
 
It is a games console. They're reserving some RAM just in case. Devs (aka those who actually know what the fuck is going on) have absolutely no problem with the PS4 RAM. John Bellomy (from Naughty Dog) tweeted that their devs are "giddy" about the GPU, and that "the amount of parallel execution available is just nutso," which has me thinking this truly is a damn fine console.

Let's just step back, take a breath, and realize that the console is a) still more powerful than its competition at a lower price, and b) still just as capable a machine as it was yesterday (meaning every kind thing a developer has said about it and its power still holds up, since they've known about this since forever).

Its not as capable as it was yesterday. Again the fact that is still more capable than its competition is beside the point.

Listen, im not saying its suddenly a piece of shit. It is still a damn fine console. But now have reservations on its limitations and would rather wait and see how things play out, rather than ignore my better judgement and be a day one adopter, which rarely ever works out.
 

ironchair

Banned
Attack the name not the arguement. Cute. My point stands. In terms of value proposition, how has the PS4 not lost ground against the Xbox 1. Whether 4.5gb of ram is "good enough" for now is besides the point? The console was promoted as something and now we find it is something else. Im not going to do the same mental gymnastics to be ok with that. Less ram + More OS bloat = worth less money. Simples.
But it still is the same thing, and the RAM allocation is not set in stone and can be changed later on once the OS footprint has diminished. There is still 8GB DDR5 in the console, nothing has been downgraded.
 

i-Lo

Member
OK, if true, the PS4 has nothing to offer for me. Underwhelming games, underwhelming features, and its starting to look like a specs upgrade of the PS3 with nothing innovative to offer.
My girlfriend wants a Xbone anyway because of the voice control, motion sensory and instant switch.
Oh well, I should try something new anyway.

Launch games. In a 6+ year life cycle if that's going to be your final decision not to buy it through its lifespan then it's asinine. Pertaining to features, we don't know a lot but remote play and 15 minutes recording (that I don't remember anyone specifically asking for, livestreaming notwithstanding) are exclusive to PS4.

Xbone will be a good investment as well, but for me, not at $500 with that kind of spec.
 

Nozem

Member
This is unacceptable!

Preorder canceled, I trashed my PS3, and tomorrow I'm getting an Xbox One tattoo on my forehead.
 

Markadias

Banned
Am I the only one who thinks people are massively overreacting here? Sony were going to stick 4gb in there, would people really care at this stage?
I mean... The Last of Us was made with 512mb for crying out loud.

I mean it does kinda suck that Sony are using a lot for the OS... But what if the OS is awesome?

The Wii U is going to churn out amazing games, and that has 2gb... With even less available for devs (1gb I believe?)

Like it has been said many times in this thread already, Sony don't want to be left missing out on features like cross game chat this time due to RAM constraints. So it makes sense to have plenty in reserve.

Pre-orders being cancelled over this is bloody silly in my opinion. But hey ho... Each to their own.
 
Sounds like you were sold on the Xbox One from day One.

PS4 still offers 50% gpu upgrade. That is a lot more than any ram difference will ever be for gaming. >.> Don't kid yourself the PS4 is still the powerhouse with the better ram.

Have you read his post history? He's been just as critical of Xbox One in other threads if I recall.
 
They've almost doubled the RAM allocation for OS just to have a huge reserve for ???

This isn't a matter of mere "streamlining". This is a matter of having an effective sense of the direction you want to take the console in. Putting aside that much RAM "just in case" doesn't convey that they have a good sense of where their priorities are.
I would argue exactly the opposite.

They know devs will not be needing more than a few GB of RAM for the foreseeable future. They do not kow the kinds of OS improvements they could implement down the road, though I'm sure they have an idea where it's going. So for the time being, devs get 4.5-5.5GB and some is locked away just in case.

They don't have crystal balls there. They don't know exactly what they future will bring. But as they work to streamline OS code and implement new features, I'm sure more RAM will be unlocked for devs when they need it.
 

Corto

Member
Not sure why I would be multitasking while I'm playing a game, would just break the immersion, but as long as it won't affect the games down the line I'll be ok.

Checking a walkthrough or a video of that particular portion of the game where you're stuck. Video Chatting with friends in a picture-in-picture window while you play. Play a mini-game and switch instantly back and forth while you wait in a multiplayer lobby for some friends to join your party. And some multitasks could be running on the background (an email client, patch downloads from games in your library or firmware updates, etc).
 
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