Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

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soundscream said:
Yeah because siblings always get along.

*remembers brother I havent spoke with in 3 years*
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Yep going through some sibling turmoil of my own.

The Artisan said:
true. she didn't get along with arya either and the only scenes with her and robb, bran, and rickon there's barely any interaction.

but i still think, based off of how robb was king in the north in season 2 & 3, that if he was in jon's place in season 7 he would've sided with sansa on this decision.
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Roose was calling out Robb for having too much mercy when he was going to let go the Ironborn that took Winterfell (except Theon of course). It's possible Robb would have done the same.

Possible you're right though since Sansa was pointing out Jon needed to be smarter than Robb, and she didn't like that decision.
 
The Artisan said:
true. she didn't get along with arya either and the only scenes with her and robb, bran, and rickon there's barely any interaction.

but i still think, based off of how robb was king in the north in season 2 & 3, that if he was in jon's place in season 7 he would've sided with sansa on this decision.
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If Robb was alive, I'd assume Catlyn was also alive too.

Catlyn and Robbs wife might have had Robb's ear, Sansa would not even be seated at the same table, let alone offer council to Robb.
 
chicko1983 said:
If Robb was alive, I'd assume Catlyn was also alive too.

Catlyn and Robbs wife might have had Robb's ear, Sansa would not even be seated at the same table, let alone offer council to Robb.
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word I wasn't trying to paint a hypothetical scenario of Robb surviving the red wedding and all that, just more pondering along the lines of "what would robb have done in jon's place"
 
Volimar said:
I wonder if it will even get out. Presumably Bran will tell Jon in private, so unless Jon does the idiotically stupidly noble thing and tells everyone...

Oh crap.
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When one of the dragons not named Drogon swoops down near Jon and goes, "sup bro?!" I'm pretty sure people would be left scratching their heads like...

giphy.gif
 
I don't even see Bran telling Jon until at least like episode 6. So it'll be forever from now.

Edit: plus in the trailers, we saw
(I think) Jon fighting north of the wall. So we might get another "you just missed him" moment.
 
The Artisan said:
You know what I was just thinking? Maybe the reason why Sansa is having such a hard time getting along with Jon is because he's just different from the rest of their siblings; he is their cousin, after all.
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I always thought she took after her mother, who never liked Jon and these two were never really close, not like he was with Robb and Arya.
 
I'm not sure I would even call The Night King evil, we don't know shit about him. It's like calling a blizzard evil.

21 more evil is The Waif because she bullied Arya? This whole list is "this person is evil because they fucked with characters we liked".
 
Einchy said:
I'm not sure I would even call The Night King evil, we don't know shit about him. It's like calling a blizzard evil.

21 more evil is The Waif because she bullied Arya? This whole list is "this person is evil because they fucked with characters we liked".
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If anything The Waif needs to be a little higher up on the list. She took pleasure in assaulting a blind woman and then went full T-1000 murder face when she got the chance to kill Arya.

Also calling Ramsay Bolton the Joker of Westeros is pretty spot on
 
For all we know the Night King might be bringing delicious cupcake recipes.



Maybe the real monsters are not the white walkers, but humandsn;gjhewau;khgh;inhfbfagj'rigrt
 
Sephzilla said:
If anything The Waif needs to be a little higher up on the list. She took pleasure in assaulting a blind woman and then went full T-1000 murder face when she got the chance to kill Arya.
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This is why I don't like associating evilness to a character because they caused harm to a "good" character. All the Wraith did was part of the Faceless Men training, and Arya was blind because she disobeyed orders, something that Jaqen did to her. And then the Wraith only tried to kill her because Jaqen told her to, so like, all of this was down under the supervision of Jaqen and he allowed all of it, because it's what Arya signed up for.

But the Wraith is 21 and Jaqen is 34?
 
Sephzilla said:
Night King and The Mountain more evil than Cersei? Eh....
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The mountain is literally the definition of evil. Doing bad things because he enjoys it. No empathy or care for anyone else at all.

Cersei at least has reasons for everything she does, which makes her more dangerous, but the mountain is basically just pure distilled evil.
 
Finally got time to see the first episode yesterday and I think they did a good enough job of setting up the season. Arya killing all those Fryes was an amazing way to start the season.
 
WriterGK said:
You are right. I have read little parts of the first and second book and she loathes Jon, doesn't like him at all.
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she seemed pretty damn happy to see him at castle black last season
Pagusas said:
The mountain is literally the definition of evil. Doing bad things because he enjoys it. No empathy or care for anyone else at all.

Cersei at least has reasons for everything she does, which makes her more dangerous, but the mountain is basically just pure distilled evil.
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wasn't Cersei basically telling the septa that she loves doing bad things because she enjoys it? she also doesn't care about any casualties either.
 
Goodstyle said:
Night King is a question mark, but the Mountain? Definitely. He rapes and kills and deeply enjoys it. He did bad things for no reason, we just rarely saw it on screen.
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I wonder what state Unella is in right now. Seems like it's been months since she met the Mountain.
 
Cersei is evil and cruel with flashes of humanity (that are all but gone at this point). Probably lawful evil. The Mountain is pure evil with a complete lack of humanity at this point. Ramsay was a sociopath (chaotic evil). Same for Joffrey and Euron. Arya is good with flashes of evil/darkness (chaotic good). Ned was lawful good. Jon and Dany are morally good. Brienne is both. Jaime straddles the line between good and bad (chaotic neutral?). Ditto for Stannis who was on the "right" side but did some truly awful shit (lawful neutral?). Tyrion is chaotic good. Tyrells are probably lawful neutral too. Martells are chaotic neutral. Yara and Theon probably chaotic good at this point.
 
-griffy- said:
Cersei is evil and cruel with flashes of humanity (that are all but gone at this point). Probably lawful evil. The Mountain is pure evil with a complete lack of humanity at this point. Ramsay was a sociopath (chaotic evil). Arya is good with flashes of evil/darkness (chaotic good). Ned was lawful good. Jon and Dany are morally good. Brienne is both. Jaime straddles the line between good and bad (chaotic neutral?). Ditto for Stannis who was on the "right" side but did some truly awful shit (lawful neutral?). Tyrion is chaotic good.
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Tyrion is more chaotic neutral than chaotic good.
 
Who does Cersei surround herself with? Qyburn who has a dark and sinister side to him and the Mountain who is clearly evil, just as much as Joffrey or Ramsay, he just didn't have the influence or intelligence to be quite as devious. Cersei is on the evil end of the spectrum. Didn't she have some friend of hers permanently disfigured over some petty squabble when she was a kid? I recall them talking about that. She was physically and verbally abusive to Tyrion even as a baby.

She doesn't need to be a psychopathic sadist in order to be evil, she is evil so was her father. She does desire power, she clearly loves playing the game even though she's terrible at it. I mean for her to be a grey character, she has to do something that's kind once in awhile doesn't she?
 
-griffy- said:
Cersei is evil and cruel with flashes of humanity (that are all but gone at this point). Probably lawful evil. The Mountain is pure evil with a complete lack of humanity at this point. Ramsay was a sociopath (chaotic evil). Same for Joffrey and Euron. Arya is good with flashes of evil/darkness (chaotic good). Ned was lawful good. Jon and Dany are morally good. Brienne is both. Jaime straddles the line between good and bad (chaotic neutral?). Ditto for Stannis who was on the "right" side but did some truly awful shit (lawful neutral?). Tyrion is chaotic good. Tyrells are probably lawful neutral too. Martells are chaotic neutral. Yara and Theon probably chaotic good at this point.
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I would not put Stannis as lawful neutral. He's been on the bad side of the spectrum for me ever since he prayed for Robb Stark to die. And then he tried to make an ally out of his half brother Jon. And then, of course, it was revealed that the quest for power was more important to him than his daughe's life, so he is a scum fuck.

Ned was lawfully good but he had other issues as a character; he was naive, stubborn, perhaps at sometimes even arrogant, same could be said for Robb.

That's what I learned after a rewatch on the series. The first time I watched the whole show, I rooted for the Starks 100% and thought they were all the victims. While most of that is true, they had some character flaws in themselves and weren't completely innocent.
Artdayne said:
Who does Cersei surround herself with? Qyburn who has a dark and sinister side to him and the Mountain who is clearly evil, just as much as Joffrey or Ramsay, he just didn't have the influence or intelligence to be quite as devious. Cersei is on the evil end of the spectrum. Didn't she have some friend of hers permanently disfigured over some petty squabble when she was a kid? I recall them talking about that. She was physically and verbally abusive to Tyrion even as a baby.

She doesn't need to be a psychopathic sadist in order to be evil, she is evil so was her father. She does desire power, she clearly loves playing the game even though she's terrible at it. I mean for her to be a grey character, she has to do something that's kind once in awhile doesn't she?
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and she employs the Mountain in what seems to be her most loyal servant, and this thread establishes he's the most evil
 
Goodstyle said:
Night King is a question mark, but the Mountain? Definitely. He rapes and kills and deeply enjoys it. He did bad things for no reason, we just rarely saw it on screen.
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I'd like to think there's more depth to the character but from what we know, or at least from what I remember is that the NK was created by the children of the forest to defeat the first men, but had too much power so the children teamed up with men to defeat the NK.

Like an emotionless robot uprising really. Can't be evil if you're just doing what you were created to do.
 
is it supposed to intentionally be a mystery on what the white walkers want? or are we to presume they just want to be the impending apocalypse on mankind?
 
The Artisan said:
is it supposed to intentionally be a mystery on what the white walkers want? or are we to presume they just want to be the impending apocalypse on mankind?
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Intentionally open ended. I'm sure we will find out what the night king wants next season. I'm sure it's not going to be what we expect it to be.
 
The Artisan said:
is it supposed to intentionally be a mystery on what the white walkers want? or are we to presume they just want to be the impending apocalypse on mankind?
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So far they look like nothing more complex than "superweapon escapes its creator's control" so I'm not expecting anynthing more than that.
 
The Artisan said:
is it supposed to intentionally be a mystery on what the white walkers want? or are we to presume they just want to be the impending apocalypse on mankind?
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they are a metaphor to global warming, so they just want to destroy humankind


i mean we know that the children of the forest created them to fight the first men. so maybe they are like skynet or something,
 
Robdraggoo said:
Intentionally open ended. I'm sure we will find out what the night king wants next season. I'm sure it's not going to be what we expect it to be.
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I agree that we won't know till the final season. This season will be them being the same villains they have been, just in higher zombie numbers.
Crispy75 said:
So far they look like nothing more complex than "superweapon escapes its creator's control" so I'm not expecting anynthing more than that.
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the children of the forest said they made the first white walker to protect themselves.
aBarreras said:
they are a metaphor to global warming, so they just want to destroy humankind


i mean we know that the children of the forest created them to fight the first men. so maybe they are like skynet or something,
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I have been believing this for a while and if it is true I think it reinforces the genius of GRRM, however, do we have a source for this? Or does it just come down to fan speculation?
 
The Artisan said:
I agree that we won't know till the final season. This season will be them being the same villains they have been, just in higher zombie numbers.

the children of the forest said they made the first white walker to protect themselves.
I have been believing this for a while and if it is true I think it reinforces the genius of GRRM, however, do we have a source for this? Or does it just come down to fan speculation?
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i think is farily obvious, kings fighting their petty wars when the true danger is coming and no one gives a fuck about it
 
aBarreras said:
they are a metaphor to global warming, so they just want to destroy humankind


i mean we know that the children of the forest created them to fight the first men. so maybe they are like skynet or something,
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I don't think they are a metaphor for global warming at all. AGOT came out in 1996 before global warming was a thing that we worried about.
 
The Artisan said:
is it supposed to intentionally be a mystery on what the white walkers want? or are we to presume they just want to be the impending apocalypse on mankind?
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Lots of theories on what they want, some people believe they are the ones who actually made the wall and had an agreement with mankind that was broke.
 
aBarreras said:
i think is farily obvious, kings fighting their petty wars when the true danger is coming and no one gives a fuck about it
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that is why I think it is symbollic to climate change/human meddling. it makes sense to me again if it is right it just reinforces GRRM's genius, but if there isn't a source for it or a confirmation from him doesn't it then just come down to fan speculation?
jfkgoblue said:
I don't think they are a metaphor for global warming at all. AGOT came out in 1996 before global warming was a thing that we worried about.
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i don't know when the term "global warming" was first used (now it's also evolved to climate change or global climate change), but sudden rises in temperatures have been observed since the 1880s. and, the kyoto protocol happened in 1997, right around the time the first book was published.
Global_Temperature_Anomaly.svg
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Pagusas said:
Lots of theories on what they want, some people believe they are the ones who actually made the wall and had an agreement with mankind that was broke.
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what about bran the builder?
 
The Artisan said:
that is why I think it is symbollic to climate change/human meddling. it makes sense to me again if it is right it just reinforces GRRM's genius, but if there isn't a source for it or a confirmation from him doesn't it then just come down to fan speculation?

i don't know when the term "global warming" was first used (now it's also evolved to climate change or global climate change), but sudden rises in temperatures have been observed since the 1880s. and, the kyoto protocol happened in 1997, right around the time the first book was published.
what about bran the builder?
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i feel that, him saying that "it is a global warming metaphor" would diminish the impact of the white walkers, so i dont think you will find a source for that haha
 
aBarreras said:
i feel that, him saying that "it is a global warming metaphor" would diminish the impact of the white walkers, so i dont think you will find a source for that haha
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oh, yeah. maybe he won't say anything and leave them mysterious for now. perhaps for next season or at the end of next season he'll give more explanation for it.
 
The Artisan said:
that is why I think it is symbollic to climate change/human meddling. it makes sense to me again if it is right it just reinforces GRRM's genius, but if there isn't a source for it or a confirmation from him doesn't it then just come down to fan speculation?

i don't know when the term "global warming" was first used (now it's also evolved to climate change or global climate change), but sudden rises in temperatures have been observed since the 1880s. and, the kyoto protocol happened in 1997, right around the time the first book was published.
what about bran the builder?
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It wasn't on the public mind until the mid to late 00's though.
 
Someone on Reddit pointed out that Jaime owns Widow's Wail now.
w3b8yyxt8maz.jpg


I'm glad it wasn't buried with Joffrey since it would be destroyed now.
 
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