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[Amir0x]

Translation: "I don't know what the fuck is going on!"

Only in that context could the Mereneese Knot have really taken six years to fucking figure out. It wasn't even that complicated, GRRM. Fuck's sake.

Don't know what Amirox is talking about it in regards to the show finishing the story. If they catch up and there are no more books in sight the show will simply end. As for the books I am expecting Winds of Winter 3-4 years from now and the final book 3-4 years after that probably. I think everything will be okay.

The show is not simply going to end dude. If they catch up and there are no more books, they will finish the show - provided it's still successful. They'll merely come up with their own series ending. IIRC David Benioff and D.B. Weiss said George told them how the story will end so they have a basic arc in mind, I'm sure...

 

[Emerson]

I know I don't. I tried to read some of the other stuff he has dabbled in, and except for that one short story I forgot the name of about weird bugs that this creep uses, I never had much care for them. Wild Cards is...yikes



Yeah, he said five projects. I know one is more editing of Wild Cards crap. Yeah, that's your legacy GRRM... Wild Cards editing. *sigh*

As for the rest, I know he said he doesn't have an outline of the series. He knows how it'll end but not necessarily the stops in the journey, so-to-speak, so that'd make any ability to pick up the pieces really difficult for a new writer.

As for his health, well he's old and fat. I can't imagine that's a healthy combination. And now he's being flown all over the world, doing promotion like crazy, the giants won, and has these five projects PLUS Winds of Winter when he gets to it. He's running himself ragged and he is old and fat.

Time to death: Inside of five years, imo.

Don't forget that he's rich as hell, which counts for something.

 

[Kud Dukan]

Time to death: Inside of five years, imo.

The fact that you have enough knowledge of Martin's health and well-being to be able to make a prediction about when he will die is remarkable.

 

[yacobod]

George has a lot of other important things to do.

like editing fucking Wild Cards, blogging, and attending conventions.

i doubt B&B consult with GURM on small scenes like that.

and he badly needs an editor for TWOW.

 

[Amir0x]

The fact that you have enough knowledge of Martin's health and well-being to be able to make a prediction about when he will die is remarkable.

He's old and fat. One needs not much deeper knowledge than that to make a fairly decent prediction that it's on the fast track to death.

Don't forget that he's rich as hell, which counts for something.

Is he really rich "as hell", or just merely rich? I always pictured him as a sort of mid-level baller instead of the crazy gold rimmed toilets kind of guy. Judging also by the horrific state of his 1998-era website too

 

[Magnus]

The show is not simply going to end dude. If they catch up and there are no more books, they will finish the show - provided it's still successful. They'll merely come up with their own series ending. IIRC David Benioff and D.B. Weiss said George told them how the story will end so they have a basic arc in mind, I'm sure...

I think they'd finish the show only if the man passed before finishing them himself. Re-reading what you wrote...I think that's what you're implying too. Just not 100% sure, haha.

And that last bit is awesome, in a slightly morbid way. It's good that the general arc and intent of the ending has been shared with others, particularly the showrunners.

The biggest crime would be not knowing how Martin wanted to end the story.

I'm officially upset at myself for encouraging this discussion. I'm not superstitious or anything, I just feel terrible privileging our concern for the story over the man's life, lol.

 

[Dany]

You know whats terrible, when author of a book series die.

 

[Emerson]

Is he really rich "as hell", or just merely rich? I always pictured him as a sort of mid-level baller instead of the crazy gold rimmed toilets kind of guy. Judging also by the horrific state of his 1998-era website too

He's not Bill Gates, but he is very wealthy. He led a moderately successful showbusiness career prior to ASOIAF, which was relatively popular for 15 years before it exploded. All 5 books were on the bestseller list for a substantial portion of last year, and I imagine he's made tons of money from the show. He's used the term "dumptrucks of money" several times to describe it.

 

[jett]

like editing fucking Wild Cards, blogging, and attending conventions.

i doubt B&B consult with GURM on small scenes like that.

and he badly needs an editor for TWOW.

You mean another editor. The guy that told him to split AFFC in a non-chronological way is clearly an idiot. Some people waited 11 years to find out what happened to some characters. That's kind of hilarious in a way.

 

[Basileus777]

I was frustrated with the gay stuff in this episode, and before I get railed for being homophobic, it was more to do with the distraction rather than anything else.

If there was some woman between Margaery and Renly it'd be the same issue. I went into this episode expecting certain things to happen and they didn't because we dilly dallied with Loras/Renly and Margaery.

I understand they have to flesh it all out for the screen (Yoren suddenly being a character was a blindingly obvious example of this), but yeah.

On the other hand I'm enjoying Renly's acting far more this series, and his beard is perfect. So is Brienne.

I don't really see the issue, that Renly and Loras scene had far more character implications than all the random bare chested whores in every episode. Renly needed the time for his story to be set up, and it had to happen in this episode.

 

[yacobod]

don't worry when GURM kicks the bucket someone like Sanderson or Abercrombie will finish the series lol

 

[Solo]

Fuck you guys are a morbid bunch.

 

[Magnus]

Fuck you guys are a morbid bunch.

I'm officially upset at myself for encouraging this discussion. I'm not superstitious or anything, I just feel terrible privileging our concern for the story over the man's life, lol.

Some of us have guilt complexes about it.

 

[Dmax3901]

I don't really see the issue, that Renly and Loras scene had far more character implications than all the random bare chested whores in every episode. Renly needed the time for his story to be set up, and it had to happen in this episode.

True, although bare chested whores are part of the setting, although I'm not naive enough to ignore the fact that somewhere in HBO a guy is going "We need more tits here please, thankyou writers".

 

[apana]

Only in that context could the Mereneese Knot have really taken six years to fucking figure out. It wasn't even that complicated, GRRM. Fuck's sake.



The show is not simply going to end dude. If they catch up and there are no more books, they will finish the show - provided it's still successful. They'll merely come up with their own series ending. IIRC David Benioff and D.B. Weiss said George told them how the story will end so they have a basic arc in mind, I'm sure...

I'm sure they will try to cap it off in a way that feels like some sort of conclusion but it would be completely wrong for them to start writing their own story before George could do it in the books . They have never indicated they would do anything like that, I hope the fans wouldn't support something like that if George is still writing the books. That is a horrible idea. series spoiler:

Spoiler

Their goal was to get to the ending of Storm of Swords when they started so they probaly haven't even thought that far out.

Something like that would have to be written in George's contract. As for him telling them the ending, I always assumed that was an emergency backup in case he, well you know....so that someone could carry it forwards if it was impossible for him to finish it.

 

[Basileus777]

I think they'd finish the show only if the man passed before finishing them himself. Re-reading what you wrote...I think that's what you're implying too. Just not 100% sure, haha.

No, if the show is still making HBO money, they won't stop just because George is slow and won't finish the books in time. HBO isn't beholden to the books, they can write an ending themselves, and would do so if it made financial sense to keep making the show.

 

[Magnus]

True, although bare chested whores are part of the setting, although I'm not naive enough to ignore the fact that somewhere in HBO a guy is going "We need more tits here please, thankyou writers".

http://gawker.com/5902076/snl-explains-the-nudity-in-game-of-thrones

No, if the show is still making HBO money, they won't stop just because George is slow and won't finish the books in time. HBO isn't beholden to the books, they can write an ending themselves, and would do so if it made them money.

Do you guys truly believe that considering the unbelievable degree to which the series has been faithful so far? Martin's even writing an episode a season, right?

I think they'd engender tons of ill-will and bad press if they pressed on and diverted from Martin while the man was actually still writing, especially if it meant only putting the show on hiatus for a year or so to give him time.

Didn't shows like The Sopranos experience extra-long breaks without severe ratings hits?

 

[yacobod]

You mean another editor. The guy that told him to split AFFC in a non-chronological way is clearly an idiot. Some people waited 11 years to find out what happened to some characters. That's kind of hilarious in a way.

i think ADWD could have used some serious editing as well. could have honestly combined AFFC and ADWD and made one good book out of all the material, instead of two average ones. and his resolution or non-resolution to the meereneese knot was awful.

 

[Basileus777]

i think ADWD could have used some serious editing as well. could have honestly combined AFFC and ADWD and made one good book out of all the material, instead of two average ones. and his resolution or non-resolution to the meereneese knot was awful.

ADWD has the unique quality of both taking forever to write and being rushed. But I suppose that's what happens when an author writes an epic fantasy and the story's structure completely falls apart and he has to try to rejigger everything mid series.

 

[luxarific]

I think they'd finish the show only if the man passed before finishing them himself. Re-reading what you wrote...I think that's what you're implying too. Just not 100% sure, haha.

And that last bit is awesome, in a slightly morbid way. It's good that the general arc and intent of the ending has been shared with others, particularly the showrunners.

The biggest crime would be not knowing how Martin wanted to end the story.

I'm officially upset at myself for encouraging this discussion. I'm not superstitious or anything, I just feel terrible privileging our concern for the story over the man's life, lol.

I think people are just frustrated that GRRM appears to have lost the mojo for finishing his own story. I'm sure he's not the only writer who is working on multiple projects at the same time, but five just seems unusually high, particularly for the world that the GoT novels are set in. There's just so much detail and so many characters in GoT that it beggars belief to think that Martin's as immersed in that world as he needs to be to write the next book. Maybe he's just the world's best multitasker, but five separate writing gigs is a lot of pots to be stirring simultaneously. So, I think people are justified for being a bit annoyed by GRRM's obvious lack of focus when it comes to finishing up the series.

 

[Amir0x]

don't worry when GURM kicks the bucket someone like Sanderson or Abercrombie will finish the series lol

fuck you! Ahhhhh @ Abercrombie finishing the series! /nightmarequality

I'm sure they will try to cap it off in a way that feels like some sort of conclusion but it would be completely wrong for them to start writing their own story before George could do it in the books . They have never indicated they would do anything like that, I hope the fans wouldn't support something like that if George is still writing the books. That is a horrible idea. series spoiler:

Spoiler

Their goal was to get to the ending of Storm of Swords when they started so they probaly haven't even thought that far out.

Something like that would have to be written in George's contract. As for him telling them the ending, I always assumed that was an emergency backup in case he, well you know....so that someone could carry it forwards if it was impossible for him to finish it.

I think it's clear that they wanted an exit strategy in case GRRM kicks the bucket.

A show is meant to be a show, it's its own product. A show is meant to exist separate from the books. If the show continues to be as successful as it is, it will go on with or without him imo. And I'd have no problem with that, provided they get a little more comfortable in their own skin over the next few seasons.

He's not Bill Gates, but he is very wealthy. He led a moderately successful showbusiness career prior to ASOIAF, which was relatively popular for 15 years before it exploded. All 5 books were on the bestseller list for a substantial portion of last year, and I imagine he's made tons of money from the show. He's used the term "dumptrucks of money" several times to describe it.

Good for him. Dude gets to the live the high life now.

Fuck you guys are a morbid bunch.

Realistic, I'd say!

 

[Basileus777]

http://gawker.com/5902076/snl-explains-the-nudity-in-game-of-thrones



Do you guys truly believe that considering the unbelievable degree to which the series has been faithful so far? Martin's even writing an episode a season, right?

I think they'd engender tons of ill-will and bad press if they pressed on and diverted from Martin while the man was actually still writing, especially if it meant only putting the show on hiatus for a year or so to give him time.

Didn't shows like The Sopranos experience extra-long breaks without severe ratings hits?

You can't wait on Martin, not when you can't trust him to meet deadlines and could be waiting years. They'd ask him for plot info and move on, the only other alternative is to cancel the show, which is a possibility if the show isn't making as much money years from now. But non-existent ill-will and bad press isn't going to be the deciding factor.

 

[apana]

No, if the show is still making HBO money, they won't stop just because George is slow and won't finish the books in time. HBO isn't beholden to the books, they can write an ending themselves, and would do so if it made financial sense to keep making the show.

I think we have discussed this before but it would have to be written into George's contract and not just implied either. They would have to say "if you fail to write the books in time we can do x". Even then I think the odds are low considering what HBO has said so far indicates that they are not going all the way to the end. George doesn't seem to me like they type of person who would sign onto that. Also there is another quote indicating he plans to have it done before the show catches up so maybe we are worrying about nothing.

fuck you! Ahhhhh @ Abercrombie finishing the series! /nightmarequality



I think it's clear that they wanted an exit strategy in case GRRM kicks the bucket.

A show is meant to be a show, it's its own product. A show is meant to exist separate from the books. If the show continues to be as successful as it is, it will go on with or without him imo. And I'd have no problem with that, provided they get a little more comfortable in their own skin over the next few seasons.



Good for him. Dude gets to the live the high life now.



Realistic, I'd say!

I agree if he is no longer alive, I would have no problem with that but if he is still writing the books then hell no! That doesn't make any sense. However we try to frame it the show is an adaptation.

 

[Basileus777]

I think we have discussed this before but it would have to be written into George's contract and not just implied either. They would have to say "if you fail to write the books in time we can do x". Even then I think the odds are low considering what HBO has said so far indicates that they are not going all the way to the end. George doesn't seem to me like they type of person who would sign onto that.

A HBO show was GRRM's dream for years, I'm skeptical that HBO's license contains some clause that forces them to be faithful to the books, in fact I'd say that's incredibly unlikely. They likely have the rights to adapt the entire series, and make whatever changes they deem necessary. They aren't adapting individual books, so whatever GRRM has failed to publish won't matter.

Also there is another quote indicating he plans to have it done before the show catches up so maybe we are worrying about nothing.

GRRM's plans and reality don't exactly match up that often anymore.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You mean another editor. The guy that told him to split AFFC in a non-chronological way is clearly an idiot. Some people waited 11 years to find out what happened to some characters. That's kind of hilarious in a way.

Martin made that decision actually

anyway, back to the show

 

[Magnus]

But non-existent ill-will and bad press isn't going to be the deciding factor.

I concur with you now that it wouldn't have much weight or be a deciding factor, but it definitely would exist.

Conversely, despite being angry at the disrespect shown to Martin should something like this happen, I'd be strangely fascinated to see the story get resolved two different ways if Martin and the show split and both finished their work.

Is there any kind of precedent for this?

 

[Basileus777]

I concur with you now that it wouldn't have much weight or be a deciding factor, but it definitely would exist. Myself and a number of other posters in here are testimony to that.

Conversely, despite being angry at the disrespect shown to Martin should something like this happen, I'd be strangely fascinated to see the story get resolved two different ways if Martin and the show split and both finished their work.

How would it be disrespectful? Do people really expect HBO to cancel a show because the author of the books they are adapting can't finish his story? I'm not sure how significant the number of people willing to get up in arms at HBO over this if GRRM is still struggling to write 5 years from now. I'm not sure why HBO would worry about "how dare you not cancel this show outrage." More people would likely be upset that they canceled the show for such a reason.

And the show is going to be its own thing at that point anyway, there's no way ADWD/AFFC could be adapted without huge changes.

 

[Arnie]

You mean another editor. The guy that told him to split AFFC in a non-chronological way is clearly an idiot. Some people waited 11 years to find out what happened to some characters. That's kind of hilarious in a way.

Near the end of AFFC and hearing that is genuinely shocking. Can't imagine what it was like to be a fan of this thing from the beginning. I doubt there are many.

 

[apana]

A HBO show was GRRM's dream for years, I'm skeptical that HBO's license contains some clause that forces them to be faithful to the books, in fact I'd say that's incredibly unlikely.

Actually yeah thinking more on it I see what you are saying, still I wish we knew more about the details of the agreement. Do we have any entertainment lawyers on this forum? Even then I don't think it will happen if George doesn't want it to happen. I'm trying to remember if there has ever been an example of this in the past. If George did not approve and they did this there will be a big fan backlash. I will lead the forces myself!

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I am sure there is an especially large dump truck of money waiting for him if he is able to provide fifth book material for them by the time they need it in, like, five years.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Whenever I watch this show, I can't stop humming the theme song for DAYS.

It's my curse, it's my fucking curse! I want to stop humming, but I can't!

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I concur with you now that it wouldn't have much weight or be a deciding factor, but it definitely would exist.

Conversely, despite being angry at the disrespect shown to Martin should something like this happen, I'd be strangely fascinated to see the story get resolved two different ways if Martin and the show split and both finished their work.

Is there any kind of precedent for this?

Scott Pilgrim has a completely different ending in the film than in the graphic novel series as the last book did not come out until a month before the film was released. In fact, only two of the six books were available when the film deal happened, so the beginning of the film is almost word-for-word and gets increasingly "loose" as it continues.

Obviously a much much different and smaller project than ASoIaF though, of course.

 

[KingGondo]

My attitude toward GRRM's health has always been this: even if he dies (which is morbid to speculate about), he has already given the world a tremendous gift with his creation of ASOIAF.

Calm down.

 

[CrunchyB]

I'd be strangely fascinated to see the story get resolved two different ways if Martin and the show split and both finished their work.

Is there any kind of precedent for this?

The anime Fullmetal Alchemist was started when the manga was still at roughly 50%. Production time of the anime was actually way faster (weird, huh?). So the anime split off and went into a completely different (sometimes inferior) direction.

Then something bizarre happened...

Still before the last volume of the manga appeared, the anime was restarted from scratch: "Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood". It starts out the same as the original anime. Same studio, slightly different style, slightly different episodes, but basically the same story. It rushes through the first 50% we saw already but then continued to follow the manga where the first anime diverged. Both manga and second anime series finished around the same time.

Both animes are really good too, and it shares some elements with ASoIaF. It's low-fantasy with wars, politics, mystery, backstabbing and brutal murder.

Also, "Only Death Can Pay For Life" is true for both magic systems, with horrible results. Dany got a good deal compared to Edward & Alphonse

 

[IAmtheFMan]

The anime Fullmetal Alchemist was started when the manga was still at roughly 50%. Production time of the anime was actually way faster (weird, huh?). So the anime split off and went into a completely different (sometimes inferior) direction.

Kenshin too...

Although the revenge arc NEVER got animated aside from being a footnote in the last OVA.

 

[Magnus]

Scott Pilgrim has a completely different ending in the film than in the graphic novel series as the last book did not come out until a month before the film was released. In fact, only two of the six books were available when the film deal happened, so the beginning of the film is almost word-for-word and gets increasingly "loose" as it continues.

Obviously a much much different and smaller project than ASoIaF though, of course.

The anime Fullmetal Alchemist was started when the manga was still at roughly 50%. Production time of the anime was actually way faster (weird, huh?). So the anime split off and went into a completely different (sometimes inferior) direction.

Then something bizarre happened...

Still before the last volume of the manga appeared, the anime was restarted from scratch: "Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood". It starts out the same as the original anime. Same studio, slightly different style, slightly different episodes, but basically the same story. It rushes through the first 50% we saw already but then continued to follow the manga where the first anime diverged. Both manga and second anime series finished around the same time.

Both animes are really good too, and it shares some elements with ASoIaF. It's low-fantasy with wars, politics, mystery, backstabbing and brutal murder.

Also, "Only Death Can Pay For Life" is true for both magic systems, with horrible results. Dany got a good deal compared to Edward & Alphonse

Fascinating.

I suddenly flashed forward to a remade adaptation of ASoIAF in 2035 made well after the books will (hopefully) be written.

Stranger things could happen.

 

[Jeels]

She's what 15, 16 in the book at this point? I doubt she was much of a schemer. TV-Margarey is just a different character. She barely even exists in ACOK. I can already see how she'll keep popping up and wasting time through the rest of the season.

Wow, your user tag certainly applies. Do you just hate everything that is not in the books? My god.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly expect the television Margery, who looks like she's nearly 30 years old, to play a pure virgin. I'm glad Renly and Loras kind of joke about it, because otherwise it would be utterly ridiculous.

The book Margery is 16 years old, this one is like 23-25. Her public persona may be that of a religious maiden, but I'm perfectly fine with her scheming brother and Renly knowing she's probably not a virgin.

It doesn't ruin anything, or screw anything up.

 

[Magnus]

I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly expect the television Margery, who looks like she's nearly 30 years old, to play a pure virgin. I'm glad Renly and Loras kind of joke about it, because otherwise it would be utterly ridiculous.

The book Margery is 16 years old, this one is like 23-25. Her public persona may be that of a religious maiden, but I'm perfectly fine with her scheming brother and Renly knowing she's probably not a virgin.

It doesn't ruin anything, or screw anything up.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't know if someone suggested this, but GRRM could still help the show finish even if he isn't done or even close to finishing writing the final book or whatever. If he has a general idea or structure our landscape of where each thing is gonna go or end up, he could share that with the hbo writers, and they'll fill in the blanks and whatnot. Meanwhile GRRM can take his sweet as time writing his books, the details in between will likely be different but they'll go the same places.

Or maybe he will end up using the shows blank filling as a reference point, lol.

 

[jett]

Wow, your user tag certainly applies. Do you just hate everything that is not in the books? My god.

I was talking with Amir0x about a specific point, nothing to do with whether I liked TV-Margarey or not. Earlier I said liked most of the changes made, especially Theon. Next time you think about mindlessly bringing up my tag think twice.

 

[_Isaac]

I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly expect the television Margery, who looks like she's nearly 30 years old, to play a pure virgin. I'm glad Renly and Loras kind of joke about it, because otherwise it would be utterly ridiculous.

The book Margery is 16 years old, this one is like 23-25. Her public persona may be that of a religious maiden, but I'm perfectly fine with her scheming brother and Renly knowing she's probably not a virgin.

It doesn't ruin anything, or screw anything up.

So far I prefer TV Margaery. She comes off as a smarter and more independent person. She knows what her duties, are and she's totally down with doing what she needs to do. Also that Renly scene was pretty humorous.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The actress looks 30, and is playing a character who is about 23-25.

 

[apana]

I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly expect the television Margery, who looks like she's nearly 30 years old, to play a pure virgin. I'm glad Renly and Loras kind of joke about it, because otherwise it would be utterly ridiculous.

The book Margery is 16 years old, this one is like 23-25. Her public persona may be that of a religious maiden, but I'm perfectly fine with her scheming brother and Renly knowing she's probably not a virgin.

It doesn't ruin anything, or screw anything up.

Well it is a medieval society. I could see it happening.

 

[John Harker]

These threads are getting worse than the last few season of LOST threads...

no one wants to talk about the show based on, ya know, what's on screen in that context only, and all that anymore? It's only been a season and 3 episodes haha

 

[_Isaac]

These threads are getting worse than the last few season of LOST threads...

no one wants to talk about the show based on, ya know, what's on screen in that context only, and all that anymore? It's only been a season and 3 episodes haha

Well you can chime in on the other No Book Spoilers thread.

 

[John Harker]

Is that the same actor who played Loras in S1? I don't really recognize him

 

[bodyofanamerican]

As a book reader, I just cannot get over how fucking perfect Theon's scenes with Balon and Asha/Yara have been thus far.

I hate to look at the series from such a high view, but I just cannot believe these books are a) being made into a cable series and b) such a high quality one.

Stumbles here and there sure, but good lord. This is just sogood.gif.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Well it is a medieval society. I could see it happening.

Yeah in this universe, women of powerful families are generally expected to be virgins until they are married.

Is that the same actor who played Loras in S1? I don't really recognize him

Yeah, same guy.

 

[Harry Potter]

Is that the same actor who played Loras in S1? I don't really recognize him

Ya. They are just doing something different with his hair.