fran.fernandez
Member
I like Linus, is funny. But I never buy stuff from utubers review.
All for fun
All for fun
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Gamers Nexus - The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
newtypepilot
Member
what a tone deaf response. Double downs on his bad takes with more deflections.Linus responded on the LTT forums:
Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity
linustechtips.com
"There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.
To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.
To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.
Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.
With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...
I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.
Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.
Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).
With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.
We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.
Thanks for reading this."
I wouldn't be surprised if their "compensation" to Billet Labs includes a clause where they cannot sue LMG for any wrongdoings.
saintjules
Gold Member
Looks like LTT has a live stream on YouTube right now. Pre-recorded stuff looks like but the chat is ripping them.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I watched the whole video, and GN makes good points. I also read the response on the LTT forums, and while it's not bad, it's not necessarily good either. To LTT's credit, they do acknowledge mistakes, but in some circumstances, they seem to be getting overly defensive when it's not warranted. I do feel that LTT has lately been more quantity over quality, and I'd prefer to see them make less content that is higher quality.
GreatnessRD
Member
LTT thought their team could crack slick and that would be the end of it. Tech Jesus G checked them, lmao.
What did we learn today, kiddies? If you fuck around... you find out.
What did we learn today, kiddies? If you fuck around... you find out.
X-Wing
Member
GN and HUB are about the most trusted hardware reviewers....if you care about hardware you should care about these reviewers.
LTT is "the biggest" PC hardware reviwer but I wouldnt say people in the know are very trusting of him and his group.
So yes it is relevant if you care about hardware at all, because if sources are giving you bad data, while also disparaging you from listening to site/people that give more correct data, its a big deal.
Misinformation can alter peoples purchasing habits.
P.S If you dont care about PC hardware at all, why would you even enter a thread about PC hardware reviewers?
Really not. There are plenty information sources on the internet and your decisions should never be made based on one single one of them.
Also it was enough for me to watch Linus purposely made poor use of Linux during "testing" to realize that everything coming out of these kinds of shows should be interpreted as entertainment and no more than that.
Soltype
Member
You can tout how thorough your testing methods are without dragging somebody else name into it.PR person or not, he has poor etiquette. What's even more telling is that this was broadcasted, people are usually more tactful in the public eye, but not him.What you're saying is they should suffer him because they hired him, that's madness. No one is blindly blaming anybody, this man said something publicly he probably should not have. Incompetence would be allowing him to stay. At best he has displayed a lack of social awareness and business etiquette, at worst he's plain rude. You don't have to be a PR person to have interpersonal skills.
Rickyiez
Member
Optimum Tech is pretty cool . Small and relatable kind of channel , doesn't screams adverts all the time and generally a very chill vibe . He also called out the terrible power consumption on RDNA 4 vs Ada Lovelace
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Zuzu
Member
I don’t watch his stuff much but I wasn’t happy a little while ago when one of his presenters reviewed a Sonos soundbar and didn’t seem to use Trueplay to tune it. He then went on to say that it didn’t sound very good. TruePlay can make Sonos speakers sound significantly better so his choice to not use it was really poor imo (if indeed he didn’t use coz it’s unclear).
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Dirk Benedict
Member
I don't have much reason to believe that LTT was doing bad toward the community, unless they started schilling??
Daneel Elijah
Member
This is a good resume of what is happening in my opinion
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Not wrong
Zheph
Member
His answer was embarrassing to say the least
good recap and hopefully he will wake up
even tho right now I can see Linus being like that:
Newari
Member
Linuses response on their forums smells like he is high from huffing his own farts
This response smells like Linus is high from huffing his own farts. Also his LTT forum avatar is appropriate for this situation.Linus responded on the LTT forums:
Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity
"There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.
To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.
To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.
Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.
With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...
I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.
Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.
Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).
With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.
We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.
Thanks for reading this."
I'll let you know my opinions on that issue right after this Segway, to our sponsor!
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
I only watch, sometimes, MAC Address... Problem solved and yes Linus sucks and for a very long now.
It should be added to the list:
- hate everything PlayStation does because it's PlayStation and is not afraid to lie to prove his bias, which is somehow fun since he always needs to backtrack like the idiot he is.
It should be added to the list:
- hate everything PlayStation does because it's PlayStation and is not afraid to lie to prove his bias, which is somehow fun since he always needs to backtrack like the idiot he is.
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FunkMiller
Member
If I had the time and the inclination, I think I’d start a YouTube channel solely dedicated to exposing the shady practises a lot of content creators engage in. None of them have had to pass any kind of journalistic bar to become YouTube ‘experts’. None of them have had to learn any kind of rules or laws around the commercial industry before punting out their first vidya to the masses.
…actually, there must be some sort of channel like that out there somewhere, surely?
…actually, there must be some sort of channel like that out there somewhere, surely?
Kenpachii
Member
quit caring about linux when he compared nvidia with hitler.
Dude has always been a clown.
About gamer nexus, his video's are overly bloated with shit nobody cares about. His games that he tests are also severely outdated most of the time to the point u wonder why even bother doing a review.
about hardware unboxed, they are incredible biased in there reviews, however i bought a ultrawide monitor based on there reviews as that was the best review i ever saw with good enough detail.
So all of them have ups and downs.
Dude has always been a clown.
About gamer nexus, his video's are overly bloated with shit nobody cares about. His games that he tests are also severely outdated most of the time to the point u wonder why even bother doing a review.
about hardware unboxed, they are incredible biased in there reviews, however i bought a ultrawide monitor based on there reviews as that was the best review i ever saw with good enough detail.
So all of them have ups and downs.
Thyuda
Member
People have way to much time on their hands to be this invested in some internet drama. I do like LTT, especially for the goofiness, but if you get your technical information from one and once source only you deserve to be duped. Take everything you read or watch with a grain of salt and compare results, always.
They could do with less videos though, I cannot imagine the stress this puts their employees under.
They could do with less videos though, I cannot imagine the stress this puts their employees under.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Out of all the non-mainstream channels that I'm aware of, whose schtick is to stick it to the mainstream channels, Frame Chasers backs it up the most with actual data and what seems like a genuine desire to deemphasize the commercialization of the tech business and re-emphasize bang for your buck value with respect to what you want out of your PC (And a lot of snark. Some might say too much.)
To give you an idea:
Raphael
Member
Steve went full medieval on their asses with professionalism, arguments and proofs only. Amazing.
Cant point to any flaws in what he did while he completely rekt them.
Never expected this kind of drama in the gaming tech field, but i really did enjoy Steve's shots. Very well done and deserved. You can see how much work went into that so that is accurate, more attention than LTT does in their tests i guess lol.
Drama is good if its handled this way, im sure this will lead to changes in LTT methods of work and behaviour patterns given how much light and traction this has given to what and how they do things.
Steve if you read this - you and the team are the GOAT for this.
Always thight of LTT as more entertsinment oriented rather than a more scientific channel. I was then suprised they would invest this much in the lab equipment. I guess they wanted to change that perception but it was not really worth it in the end, and they just try to justify the expense now internally but not shutuping about this. They mention the bloody lab too many times in their videos. No one cares just do your work. We dont care how you do it as long as its reliable!
Cant point to any flaws in what he did while he completely rekt them.
Never expected this kind of drama in the gaming tech field, but i really did enjoy Steve's shots. Very well done and deserved. You can see how much work went into that so that is accurate, more attention than LTT does in their tests i guess lol.
Drama is good if its handled this way, im sure this will lead to changes in LTT methods of work and behaviour patterns given how much light and traction this has given to what and how they do things.
Steve if you read this - you and the team are the GOAT for this.
Always thight of LTT as more entertsinment oriented rather than a more scientific channel. I was then suprised they would invest this much in the lab equipment. I guess they wanted to change that perception but it was not really worth it in the end, and they just try to justify the expense now internally but not shutuping about this. They mention the bloody lab too many times in their videos. No one cares just do your work. We dont care how you do it as long as its reliable!
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Windom Earle
Member
When is Linus NOT shilling?
simpatico
Member
For the amount of staff LMG has, they might have to release videos at this speed to keep everyone employed. They should def slow down on reviews and benchmarks though and crank out the humor vids if this is the case. Give the stuff that requires testing longer to cook. Steve had some really damning examples like that poor water block company.
First a guy that post stupid meme, then I go to check his last video and is called "7800x3D is UNUSABLE".
I'm not gonna bother wasting my time watching videos with such retarded names.
Raphael
Member
Of course not a single one. I usually watch several, but i place the most weight what those guys think. Amazingly GN and HU seem to very much align with their opinions most of the time.
Both have proven to be reliable, professional and to have integrity thats why i care about them the most. You should not trust a single source but between the two you can basically have a well informed opinion on a product. If you have time you can watch more.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I did warn you.
buenoblue
Member
I don't think LTT are really meant to be taken seriously. There videos are more about fun and weird shit rather than "this motherboard does this".
Gamers Nexus do seem to be actually properly testing stuff but I can't watch there vids. The guy comes off as so arrogant to me and seems to hate everything lol
Gamers Nexus do seem to be actually properly testing stuff but I can't watch there vids. The guy comes off as so arrogant to me and seems to hate everything lol
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Zheph
Member
They review products at the end of the day
some people are taking clues from it regardless of the tone
Raphael
Member
Yep, they cant seem to be able to find the right balance of fun and entertainment and professionalism.
The mix is causing issues due to inconsistant goals and vision.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Linus is such tone deaf moron
yeah im surprised chubby jebus loved so much honestly.
their videos are definition of obnoxious snoozefest with incredible levels of bloat.
feels like a “geek in love with his fart”parody.
not to mention this moron was comparing ps5gpu to 1060 at some point.
linus on the other hand feels so fake and scripted, impossible to take serious either.
yet to find a worthy tech channel
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
V1LÆM
Gold Member
I get what you say about Steve (Gamers Nexus). For a long time I didn't watch the videos because he irritated me. Maybe that was me just judging him too quickly and I don't mean this in a bad way at all but it seems that's just his personality. I like that he "hates everything" because you know he's not going to be gushing over this product or that brand. He "hates" everything equally so in a way I think he holds everything to the same standards and is just hard to impress. If he does praise something then you know he means it. I can't even remember what it was but one of the videos I watched he was really impressed with a product and it felt odd that he was so positive about it lol.
GN is definitely more niche and obtuse content compared to LTT/Hardware Unboxed/Jayz but I respect Steve and his channel. They do good work and hold companies... and fellow youtubers to account.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
The issue here is they built a review lab, started putting out benchmarks, and then took a shot at GamersNexus in a video on it. Come at the king etc. etc.
If Linus wants to build his channel as being just a bunch of dumbasses that get weird hardware and drop/break it that's fine, but when you're reviewing new hardware and putting out benchmarks and telling people to buy or not buy it based on your analysis, then yea it is meant to be taken seriously and they need to be held to a standard.
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Good video.
I've recently watched a few of tech jebus and to be honest, I like his style.
He just talks - no gimmicks, unfunny memes or lol-crazy humour.
As soon as I see that fake TV presenter "Yo what's up guyz!" attitude I back the fuck out.
I've recently watched a few of tech jebus and to be honest, I like his style.
He just talks - no gimmicks, unfunny memes or lol-crazy humour.
As soon as I see that fake TV presenter "Yo what's up guyz!" attitude I back the fuck out.
lordrand11
Member
Currently receiving an error notification when I visit the LTT forums
MikeM
Member
Problem is that people who are new to the space often go to the most popular sources expecting accuracy. With LTT, this has been proven to be incorrect but newbies would not know it. LTT needs to be better, especially for a company worth $100million.