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Gotham S2 |OT| Dawn of Altruism - Mondays 8/7c

C

Calm waterfall

Banned
Another stellar episode. The elevator fight was intense. The Riddler´s speech was amazing. And Eduardo was disturbing in more ways than one. And finally the court of owls is here. Oh yeah Alfred is great, and he is the best Alfred of all the Batman related things.

Great pacing, great character development, great progress. Man this season is blowing everything else out of the water.

What do they mean by final episode? Probably mid season right?
 
S

Skux

Member
Wow guys, that episode was FANTASTIC. The hitman setup was a great way to slow the pacing down and bring the story to a standstill so the show can explore some of its character relationships.

All the scenes were dynamite. You could feel the weight of Gotham's madness slowly creeping in on everyone.

Riddler and Penguin's relationship starting off with hostility and awkwardness, and then Riddler convincing him to live.

Barnes and Gordon talking about morality during the seige.

The gutwrenching life-or-death fight scenes.

Alfred's dedication to doing what's best for Bruce, despite Bruce hating it.

Also, Michelle Gomez looked amazing in that outfit.

gy9ZtUA.png
 
S

Sölf

Member
S2 delivers with each episode. I am still baffled why this show was "so bad" in S1 and now made literaly a 180° turn for the better.

The elevator and Penguin/Nygma scenes were probably my highlights. Oh, so damn good. Gotham I just love you. <3
 
P

Penguin

Member
Does anyone have the Flamingo neck kill?

Thinking of starting up a Gotham Kill of the Week feature on my blog. And that was easily this week's winner
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Sölf;185781893 said:
S2 delivers with each episode. I am still baffled why this show was "so bad" in S1 and now made literaly a 180° turn for the better.

The elevator and Penguin/Nygma scenes were probably my highlights. Oh, so damn good. Gotham I just love you. <3
Click to expand...

Didn't they order about double the eps halfway through production last season?


Season has been fantastic so far, excited to see what this council brings. Is there any hint with the white robes?
 
P

Penguin

Member
Sölf;185781893 said:
S2 delivers with each episode. I am still baffled why this show was "so bad" in S1 and now made literaly a 180° turn for the better.

The elevator and Penguin/Nygma scenes were probably my highlights. Oh, so damn good. Gotham I just love you. <3
Click to expand...

Dubbedinenglish said:
Didn't they order about double the eps halfway through production last season?


Season has been fantastic so far, excited to see what this council brings. Is there any hint with the white robes?
Click to expand...

Growing pains of most shows.

And yeah, it was a show that had a pretty solid first half of season one, but could tell when they started to stretch some of their plots and characters in the back half to reach the episode count

Slowly, but nice to see Gotham crawling up in the ratings. Up again this week
Fasts-Demo-2015-Nov-MON.16.png
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I was shocked that Parks survived and then...then she didn't. &#128546;

They went into overdrive with the Flamingo stuff. I knew Jim would live to regret keeping him alive after that cop car stare down, but I figured it would be a few episodes from now, not five minutes later.

The Penguin & Nygma scenes are something that I would have said was super dumb on paper, but it absolutely works at this point in the show.

One of the better episodes so far this season. Glad I gave this show another shot, it keeps creeping its way up into my weekly Must Watch Television.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Was that ending supposed to imply Jim should have just murdered the beaten Flamingo?
If so that's a pretty shitty message.

I'd just suggest when booking dangerous criminals you take better safety precautions.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
That was a damn good episode. Loved the Penguin/Nygma scenes, love how his arc has gone so far.

Almost thought we might see some Alfred on child abuse action, but nope...such a shame. Did the writers realise how over the top it was or something? I don't know how many more episodes I can go without getting my fix...
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Ithil said:
Was that ending supposed to imply Jim should have just murdered the beaten Flamingo?
If so that's a pretty shitty message.

I'd just suggest when booking dangerous criminals you take better safety precautions.
Click to expand...

Couldn't you argue that the show's message has always been this -- even back in season 1?

In Season 1 episode 1, Bullock asked Gordon to put a bullet in Penguin's head, but he chose not to do it.

How many people has Penguin killed because Gordon chose not to kill him? How many more people will Penguin kill when Bruce finally becomes Batman?

What about Batman's "No Kill" rule? The Joker keeps escaping Arkham, and keeps going on mass murder sprees, because Batman refuses to kill The Joker. How many lives would have been saved if Batman had just killed The Joker? You call it a shitty message, but that message sums up everything about Batman.
 
F

Five

Banned
This is a perennial dilemma in most Batman lore. How much damage could be avoided if Batman simply killed Joker and a few others? (this especially comes to a head in the famous scene at the end of Under the Red Hood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kscfb9XzPs)

I'm excited to see where they continue to take it. Gordon as a proxy for Batman right now is really interesting and adds a lot of texture to the older Gordon during Batman's tenure.
 
1

123rl

Member
It's getting better every week, and I'm saying that as someone who has always enjoyed it.

Lots of great moments this week and some good buildup for future episodes. This is just going to continue onwards and upwards from here. Hopefully if Strange comes in soon he'll be a long-running character and have a longer story arc.
 
W

Wozzly

special needs, sexual needs
I'm not familiar with Michelle Gomez, but I want more of her. Amazing.

I still can't believe how far Gotham has come since season one. I love the timelessness of the city and the atmosphere as a whole.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Actually, I think upper left with the one right next to its beard might be the best combo. Still distinctive, but with a slightly neater no-grey beard.
 
A

Apoc29

Member
Cory Michael Smith killed it in his scenes with Penguin.

While I enjoy Alfred constantly putting Bruce in his place, I would like to see him back to kicking ass as we haven't seen him doing so in a while.
 
P

Platy

Member
Penguin and Riddler bromance is awesome, but Penguim not realizing for himself that without his mother is has nothing to fear sounded kinda .... off character
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
that guy with the pink hair looked like such a doofus, hopefully he's gone for good. first antagonist character i wasn't feeling since ramirez (if she counts). pretty damn good track record otherwise, super consistent.

violence was ratcheted up a notch in this one too, GCPD catching so many bodies. and Gordon was in full action mode.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Ithil said:
Was that ending supposed to imply Jim should have just murdered the beaten Flamingo?
If so that's a pretty shitty message.

I'd just suggest when booking dangerous criminals you take better safety precautions.
Click to expand...

The message is that every action has consequences, and you have to be ready to hone up to those consequences, intended or not. Gordon did the right thing, and it gave Flamingo an oppurtunity to kill officer Parks, Gordon has to live with that. Had he killed Flamingo, he might have become further enstranged from Lee, and he'd have to live with that.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
I actually thought this week's episode were a little worse than the many before it. Maybe because the story came to a halt, so it could breathe a little, which is okay, but it didn't excite me. And Bruce is damn stupid. Thank goodness we have Alfred!.. And Selina Kyle.

And I agree, I hope that Eduardo guys is gone for good.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Madridista said:
I actually thought this week's episode were a little worse than the many before it. Maybe because the story came to a halt, so it could breathe a little, which is okay, but it didn't excite me. And Bruce is damn stupid. Thank goodness we have Alfred!.. And Selina Kyle.

And I agree, I hope that Eduardo guys is gone for good.
Click to expand...

Bruce is still the least interesting character on the show.

Platy said:
Penguin and Riddler bromance is awesome, but Penguim not realizing for himself that without his mother is has nothing to fear sounded kinda .... off character
Click to expand...

I think Penguin would've realized it sooner or later, but he's basically still in shock. Nigma just slapped him a little to get there sooner.
 
I

Ithil

Member
neorej said:
The message is that every action has consequences, and you have to be ready to hone up to those consequences, intended or not. Gordon did the right thing, and it gave Flamingo an oppurtunity to kill officer Parks, Gordon has to live with that. Had he killed Flamingo, he might have become further enstranged from Lee, and he'd have to live with that.
Click to expand...

Sure, but it's all a little too on the nose. I understand at this point that this is just how Gotham rolls, but literally having Chief Mackey tell him this story of having a gun in suspect's mouth and firing, so that Gordon can be in the exact same situation and do the opposite, only for whoops, you should have murdered that guy apparently, it's way too literal.

dead souls said:
In Gotham it's kill or be killed.
Click to expand...

Which is the polar opposite of Batman's code.
 
M

Meier

Member
G-Fex said:
Gotham is getting a lot better
Click to expand...

This season has frankly been VERY good. I can't really think of a weak episode from the lot. It really, really accentuates just how god awful Fish Mooney was.

Also, Tigress killing that dude by putting her heel through his neck was an "OH SHIT!" moment. I agree, I'm amazed at how gruesome some of the violence is for an early broadcast TV show.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Warning, crazy talk incoming.

When comparing the two seasons so far, I'm really wondering if the first season is even necessary to watch and if newcomers can just start with season 2. I'm not saying season 1 is a complete waste of time, but season 2 seems to be a good starting point, if you're a little familiar with the Batman lore. You miss out on the Barbara plot, but other than that I can't think of much that's relevant to the second season. You might as well go with Penguin being the mob leader from the beginning.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
brotkasten said:
Warning, crazy talk incoming.

When comparing the two seasons so far, I'm really wondering if the first season is even necessary to watch and if newcomers can just start with season 2. I'm not saying season 1 is a complete waste of time, but season 2 seems to be a good starting point, if you're a little familiar with the Batman lore. You miss out on the Barbara plot, but other than that I can't think of much that's relevant to the second season. You might as well go with Penguin being the mob leader from the beginning.
Click to expand...

I mean... I actually like most of Gotham S1, so I'd recommend people watch it regardless, but structurally I'll admit you could probably make due, for the most part. They've done a good job of recapping anything that needs recapping. I doubt they'd be confused, but it might lack some impact?
 
O

Oddduck

Member
brotkasten said:
Warning, crazy talk incoming.

When comparing the two seasons so far, I'm really wondering if the first season is even necessary to watch and if newcomers can just start with season 2. I'm not saying season 1 is a complete waste of time, but season 2 seems to be a good starting point, if you're a little familiar with the Batman lore. You miss out on the Barbara plot, but other than that I can't think of much that's relevant to the second season. You might as well go with Penguin being the mob leader from the beginning.
Click to expand...

As far as Season 1 is concerned, everyone should at least watch episode 7 - Penguin's Umbrella

Robin Lord Taylor gives an amazing performance in this episode, and Victor Zsasz's confrontation with Gordon in the GCPD is highly entertaining.

It might also be a good idea to watch the two episodes about Scarecrow's origins, in case they continue that story in future seasons.

Episode 14 - The Fearsome Dr. Crane
Episode 15 - The Scarecrow
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Two episodes of Gotham Season 2 were nominated for outstanding achievement in cinematography by the American Society of Cinemataographers.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/in-contention/asc-tv-nominations-gotham-marco-polo-1201643634/

The American Society of Cinematographers (ASC) has announced television nominees for outstanding achievement in cinematography. Fox&#8217;s &#8220;Gotham&#8221; and Netflix&#8217;s &#8220;Marco Polo&#8221; led with multiple nominations.

The nominees for episode of a regular series are:

&#8220;Marco Polo&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;The Fourth Step&#8221; (Vanja Cernjul, ASC, HFS)
&#8220;12 Monkeys&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Mentally Divergent&#8221; (David Greene, CSC)
&#8220;Gotham&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Strike Force&#8221; (Christopher Norr)
&#8220;Gotham&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Scarification&#8221; (Crescenzo Notarile, ASC, AIC)
&#8220;Game of Thrones&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Hardhome&#8221; (Fabian Wagner, BSC)
Click to expand...

TVbythenumbers is predicting that Gotham will most likely get a third season.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ings-week-8-gotham-is-a-sure-bet-for-renewal/

&#8220;Gotham&#8221; is going to get a third season.

The show is FOX&#8217;s No. 3-rated drama, behind sure thing &#8220;Empire&#8221; and likely pickup (for now) &#8220;Rosewood,&#8221; but it&#8217;s in a better position than &#8220;Rosewood&#8221; at the moment.

Aside from a one-week blip where it dropped to a 1.3 same-day rating, &#8220;Gotham&#8221; has been a model of consistency this season, scoring a 1.5 or 1.6 for every episode. That&#8217;s right on FOX&#8217;s scripted average, and it&#8217;s doing those numbers with no help, as it leads off Monday nights.

The network is going to have several drama spots to fill next season, even if &#8220;Rosewood&#8221; is able to sustain its numbers enough for a renewal. &#8220;Gotham&#8221; won&#8217;t be one of them.
Click to expand...
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oddduck said:
Couldn't you argue that the show's message has always been this -- even back in season 1?

In Season 1 episode 1, Bullock asked Gordon to put a bullet in Penguin's head, but he chose not to do it.

How many people has Penguin killed because Gordon chose not to kill him? How many more people will Penguin kill when Bruce finally becomes Batman?

What about Batman's "No Kill" rule? The Joker keeps escaping Arkham, and keeps going on mass murder sprees, because Batman refuses to kill The Joker. How many lives would have been saved if Batman had just killed The Joker? You call it a shitty message, but that message sums up everything about Batman.
Click to expand...
Why is it Batman's place to kill Joker though?
at some point the "insane" excuse shouldn't work anymore and he should be put in prison and sentenced to death.

brotkasten said:
Bruce is still the least interesting character on the show.
Click to expand...
Bruce is actually pretty darn good this season but as a whole has a major problem.
Anything interesting about him now can't really go all that far because we know he sits around another 6+ years(safely) until that 1 major thing about him becomes a factor.

Galavan situation for example
This could be a thing that creates trust issues in Bruce yet its either not going to change him all that much or have a bland untrusting kid Bruce sitting around for 6 years.
Bruce alone needs a 2-3 year time jump. then events might start to seem like they are going somewhere.
When Bruce leaves Gotham after a season or two at that age they can do without him for a bit or just show bits of his travel traing a few times a season.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Oddduck said:
Two episodes of Gotham Season 2 were nominated for outstanding achievement in cinematography by the American Society of Cinemataographers.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/in-contention/asc-tv-nominations-gotham-marco-polo-1201643634/



TVbythenumbers is predicting that Gotham will most likely get a third season.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ings-week-8-gotham-is-a-sure-bet-for-renewal/
Click to expand...

Barring some collapse in the second half, I think Gotham is fairly safe for renewal.

I think almost all comic book shows are safe for renewals right now sans Supergirl (depending on how it looks in the coming weeks) and Lucifer since we have no idea how it will do (poorly, is my guess)

But The Flash? Should renew it like last week.
Arrow
Agents of SHIELD just to get up those syndication level
iZombie, but maybe not for a full season.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
Why is it Batman's place to kill Joker though?
at some point the "insane" excuse shouldn't work anymore and he should be put in prison and sentenced to death.
Click to expand...

Besides, the Joker doesn't really fit the criteria for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" plea. I mean, he's nuts, but that's not what it's about. He's got a very clear idea of right and wrong, he just consciously chooses wrong. That's his whole shtick. Either he's a) got hooks in the system or b) has a truly astonishingly good lawyer. Only explanations.

unholyrevenger72 said:
only if whatever state Gotham inhabits has the Death Penalty
Click to expand...

New Jersey, and no it does not. But that law was only signed in 2007, so really, Gotham probably does have capital punishment.
 
S

shoreu

Member
Calm waterfall said:
Another stellar episode. The elevator fight was intense. The Riddler´s speech was amazing. And Eduardo was disturbing in more ways than one. And finally the court of owls is here. Oh yeah Alfred is great, and he is the best Alfred of all the Batman related things.

Great pacing, great character development, great progress. Man this season is blowing everything else out of the water.

What do they mean by final episode? Probably mid season right?
Click to expand...

I think it's mid season. Also comic Alfred is > all others.
 
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