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Gotham S2 |OT| Dawn of Altruism - Mondays 8/7c

P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Funky Papa said:
It really is bizarre.

Specially considering that Gotham is quite probably the most consistent comic-book show on air. S1 was incredibly flawed in that regard, but S2 is coherent like no other.
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Yeah, it's very true to itself, it's just that "itself" is a heady mix of camp and grimdark violence/tragedy. Their total inability to take it for what it is was understandable way back when it wasn't all that good, but you think they'd have come to grips with it by now.

KonradLaw said:
Yep. Even in early days when it sucked, the show never had a problem with it's identity. The showrunners always knew exactly what kind of show they wanted and tonally it was spot on from the very start. It just took the stories to catch up in quality.
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Agreed

edit; Odduck, Arrow thread is full of salty-ass Felicity haters. I'm not big on the lady myself, but the degree to which some of the posters in there go is pretty impressive; they're disgusted and confused by people who like the character, doesn't get much more over the top than that. That's the reason for the dissonance between it and the other DCTV threads.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
As far as I'm concerned, Gotham's tone is the same tone that Tim Burton's Batman films used.

It's dark and violent like Burton's films. It is weird, humorous, quirky and goofy like Burton's films. Sometimes it's very gothic, surreal and nonsensical like Burton's films. Even Paul Reuben (Batman Returns) is now signed onto this show!
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Funky Papa said:
It really is bizarre.

Specially considering that Gotham is quite probably the most consistent comic-book show on air. S1 was incredibly flawed in that regard, but S2 is coherent like no other.
Click to expand...

Yup, Gotham has ALWAYS been tonally consistent. It's just that the tone does not get confined into one style. It's not just serious, or just funny, or just violent. The tone is a mix of those. When it wants to be serious it IS. That doesn't make it lack tonal consistency. It jist makes it a well-rounded show.

The argument that "Gotham doesn't know what it wants to be" is so unfounded. It wants to be a show that styles itself in look and tone on Tim Burton's vision of Gotham. And that's what it does.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Funky Papa said:
I'd argue that the first season did have some real issues. The Zany Adventures of Lil Wayne nearly killed the show for me.
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Yeah, I think the first season tried too hard to balance all the storylines in every episode.

Second season has shown they know don't need every char and every arc in every episode.

Like I still remember the ep when Gordon goes to Bruce with help solving a case

Yes, let's go to the 10 year old boy for advice
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oddduck said:
Is Gotham a good or bad show? I have no idea anymore. It seems like critics can't ever make up their mind.
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LOL

Funky Papa said:
I'd argue that the first season did have some real issues. The Zany Adventures of Lil Wayne nearly killed the show for me.
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Oh it did, but i'd say the show didn't do anything out of character to correct it in Season 2.
they stretch the plot a bit more, upped the quality of writing and made side stuff a bit more relevant.

Its not like they suddenly added the comedy/goofiness or the fantasy elements(heck pre-venom was what episode 6 of S1?)
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
Ishida said:
Are we actually sure that it was Matches who did it? It could all be a set up, as far as we know.

I'm okay either way, though.
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I was thinking that, but if Malone was covering for someone, it would be the Waynetech board of directors. Regardless, it wouldn't be Joe Chill or, better yet, a random mugger who Batman never catches.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
DcpWHD2.png


Hmm, showing Jerome in the same club as Harley's mom...
 
C

Calm waterfall

Banned
Nice fight by Alfred, it was really intense. So Bruce found the killer, i thought that won´t happen until much later, but i like the fact that Bruce has left home. I wonder if there will be a time skip in which Bruce comes back a couple of years older and starts taking criminals without becoming Batman.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Good Bruce centric episode. I like where they've taken him this season. Bruce & Selina living on the streets has some potential too, could see some decent plots being mined from that premise.

Ed is about to go full Riddler, which would be perfect. I'm fine with him doing something like creating complex crimes to distract Gordon from investigating Kringle's disappearance.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
I felt they kept it vague if Matches was the killer. Bruce might think he found the guy, but it'll obviously come out there's another suspect and Bruce will be back to square one. His monologue at the end was pretty great, Felt a lot like the scene from Begins where Bruce heads off to find himself.

Nygma continues to kill it.

Good episode overall. I like that Bruce is roughing it. Should make for a nice change of pace with him out of his comfort zone.
 
T

TheGreatDirector

Banned
This show has been fantastic this whole season. The whole Bruce and Matches Malone stand-off at the end was brilliant and the art direction continues to wow me. Penguin keeps killing it in his weird quirky way and Nygma is more dangerous than ever.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
I really think that the Matches thing was handled really well. He might have found the guy (hell, he probably did), but there was no catharsis there for Bruce, no satisfaction. Matches didn't even remember, or if he did, he didn't care, and in the end, he killed himself. No conspiracy to dismantle, not individual against whom Justice Shall Be Served.

The important part of the killer section of the mythos isn't that Bruce never finds him or that the man's name is Joe Chill, it's that he can't be the end of it, and he can't give Bruce any level of happiness. His search for justice cannot find a singular focus, he has to end up going toe to toe with crime itself.

And that last episode did a very good job of creating a situation in which that's the case.
 
J

Johndoey

Banned
Does it count if you accidentally get them to off themselves.

Besides that it doesn't matter if Matches is the killer, the killer doesn't matter at all.

B.D Wong is a great Strange. Has Jerry popped up before? I love this character.

The letter monologue was whatever.

Admittedly I was kinda hoping for a swerve and him shooting Malone.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
An example of how out-of-touch AV Club is with Gotham.

Out of 10 reviews on Rottentomatoes (so far), AV Club was the only one to give last night's episode a negative review. Now, this will most likely change as more reviews are added, but it's amusing to think about.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/s02/e14/

Tomatometer: 90% Average Rating: 9.0 out of 10

Critics Consensus: A masterful performance by young David Mazouz and the beginnings of a gratifying Riddler transformation pave the way for "This Ball of Mud and Meanness" to explore Bruce Wayne's newly maddened soul.
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Entertainment Weekly

Bruce finally learns the gravity of what it means to kill a man. And Ed's transformation into the Riddler is getting deliciously close to complete.
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New York Observer

I....genuinely loved this; completely, unironically loved the performances put in by both Mr. Bowen and David Mazouz, who at 15-years-old can display more complex emotions with his face than I've ever had actual complex emotions.
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Baltimore Sun

Bruce has lost his mind, and Gotham has never been better.
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TV.com

It certainly felt like we were getting back to business... and right now, business is good.
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TV Fanatic

If there were any doubts about David Mazouz's ability to transform into Batman whenever that time comes, those doubts were shattered (like Bruce's childhood) after his brilliantly understated performance this hour.
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TVOvermind.com

This week’s Gotham was one of the strongest episodes of the second half for Season 2 so far as Bruce’s arc got to a very compelling point while Penguin continues to go through a hellish time at Arkham that takes a surprising turn of event at the end.
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IGN

The moment with Matches was very well done. And even though some things played out as expected, there were still enough smaller nuances that helped make it great.
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ScreenRant

Here's hoping the series continues to show viewers how the boy becomes the hero his city deserves.
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Aint It Cool

Hercules Loves Lori Petty’s Jokerette, Arriving In Tonight’s Surprisingly Strong GOTHAM!!
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TV Equals

All in all, a good episode that, while not without flaws, was still highly worthwhile, thanks to some ace performances from its guest stars and a particularly solid one from David Mazouz as Bruce Wayne.
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Lyles Movie Files

This episode was the show finally living up to its promise of exploring the past and firmly laying the groundwork for the characters' future.
Click to expand...
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
That was so good. Love that Nygma is starting his first arching.

The whole Bruce arc looks great. Living in the streets makes much more sense at this point in his life.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Oddduck said:
An example of how out-of-touch AV Club is with Gotham.

Out of 10 reviews on Rottentomatoes (so far), AV Club was the only one to give last night's episode a negative review. Now, this will most likely change as more reviews are added, but it's amusing to think about.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/s02/e14/
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I haven't really looked outside the AV Club review (that I didn't think represented my thoughts whatsoever on the episode), and was worried that the general critic consensus was that it was bad. Good to see AV Club is more alone in this.
 
P

Platy

Member
Pretty good episode indeed.... it had some weird moments but hey, it is gotham =P

Punk Harley and Matches both gave some of the best performances this show has seen
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Platy said:
Pretty good episode indeed.... it had some weird moments but hey, it is gotham =P

Punk Harley and Matches both gave some of the best performances this show has seen
Click to expand...

I thought the scene between Matches and Bruce was one of the most well-performed scenes in the show so far.
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
Poodlestrike said:
Agreed

edit; Odduck, Arrow thread is full of salty-ass Felicity haters. I'm not big on the lady myself, but the degree to which some of the posters in there go is pretty impressive; they're disgusted and confused by people who like the character, doesn't get much more over the top than that. That's the reason for the dissonance between it and the other DCTV threads.
Click to expand...

She's just the personification of the show not focusing on comic book stuff enough and instead having relationship drama be the focus of the show now.

Arrow has forgot what it is meant to be.
 
A

Alpende

Member
Nygma should be more careful where he holds his monologues. Dude just stood in the middle of the precinct talking to himself.
 
A

Apoc29

Member
The scene where Hugo Strange was discharging Penguin was adorable. This show is a lot of fun; it's got some dark moments too of course but they're usually quite well done.
 
G

GreySquirrel

Member
If Matches wasn't the killer, how did he know the colour of Bruce's parent's hair? Bruce mentioned the necklace and that they were well dressed but I don't remember him saying anything about that. Unless Matches was lying about not following the media and knew exactly who Bruce and his parents are/were
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
GreySquirrel said:
If Matches wasn't the killer, how did he know the colour of Bruce's parent's hair? Bruce mentioned the necklace and that they were well dressed but I don't remember him saying anything about that. Unless Matches was lying about not following the media and knew exactly who Bruce and his parents are/were
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That's the easiest explanation, assuming he didn't really do it. He might not have recognized Bruce right off the bat but once he made it clear who he was he could recite the details from the newspaper.

But I think he really did it.
 
P

psynergylover

Member
Oddduck said:
An example of how out-of-touch AV Club is with Gotham.

Out of 10 reviews on Rottentomatoes (so far), AV Club was the only one to give last night's episode a negative review. Now, this will most likely change as more reviews are added, but it's amusing to think about.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/s02/e14/

Tomatometer: 90% Average Rating: 9.0 out of 10



Entertainment Weekly



New York Observer



Baltimore Sun



TV.com



TV Fanatic



TVOvermind.com



IGN



ScreenRant



Aint It Cool



TV Equals



Lyles Movie Files
Click to expand...

I hope Fox know they have a hit on their hands!!! Gotham is the best comic book tv show right now!!!
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
VanWinkle said:
I thought the scene between Matches and Bruce was one of the most well-performed scenes in the show so far.
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Bruce has the wisdom and patience of somebody 4 times his age.

I said it before but it's hilarious how the kids in this show operate at an extremely heightened maturity. They're treated like tiny adults basically. I love it and it adds personality to a show already brimming with it

This is the natural continuation of Burton's movies tbh. Its nailed the vibe of those batman movies. I wonder if he's seen an episode.
 
P

psynergylover

Member
Septimus Prime said:
I hope they don't. "Oh, people like this? Cancel it."

Or worse, they experiment with the formula to draw in different demographics because they know we're were locked already.
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that's what worries me, unless the show gets rating like Empire/Glee/24/House they hit the cancel button sooner or later....
 
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