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[refreshZ]

I'm a fair way through Doom 3 (the pinnacle of FPS graphics at this point?) and I've noticed that the one thing that the graphics engine doesn't do particularly well is fire. It stood out majorly in comparison to the stunning environs.

This got me thinking... when was the last time I saw a game with decent fire effects? Has there even been one? Has there ever been one that simulated fire well rather than rotate a 2d animation? Are fire effects more difficult to simulate than water effects? (which, it seems, for all intents and purposes has been 'mastered' this gen with genuinely stunning results) It certainly seems that way. Or maybe devs feel its not a visual aspect that deserves much attention. This strikes me as odd since 'firing' weapons and subsequent pyrotechnic eye candy remain one of the main draws of most games.

Serious environmental damage, combustable material and the firepower to make it all go up would be an awesome way to simulate tactile connection to your environment - especially one such as Doom where environmental interaction is limited. So why the lack of 'decent' fire effects in games? And what honourable mentions can you guys make?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

RE4 has nice fire.

 

[DSN2K]

seen RE4 ? stunning fire effects.

 

[cvxfreak]

RE4 has nice fire.

No kidding!

 

[SantaC]

RTCW has nice fire.

 

[dark10x]

Fire is so random that is just seems difficult to create...

Most games just use fire "sprites" combined with particle smoke (and maybe even heat wave effects), but that obviously isn't going to cut it. Water can almost be tiled and still look good, but fire is a very different beast...

That said, I always thought Brave Fire Fighters did a good job of rendering fire effects. I'll have to think of a few more examples...

 

[TheGreenGiant]

matrix reloaded has like fucking awesome fire. Procedural too. Didn't save the movie though.

Its lame because MS hasn't thrown in enough money for RnD.

 

[rawk]

I dunno, but I even thought that the fire in Return of the King was kind of lame. The movie, not the game.

I guess it's just a hard effect to pull of convincingly.

 

[Lord Error]

The best in-game fire that I've seen so far in the released game, has to be that first scene in Onimusha 3. RE4 fire looks even better than that, I think. Fire from the MGS3 trailer looks very impressive too.

 

[AeroGod]

The flamethrower in unreal 2 looks incredible.

 

[dark10x]

The best in-game fire that I've seen so far in the released game, has to be that first scene in Onimusha 3. RE4 fire looks even better than that, I think. Fire from the MGS3 trailer looks very impressive too.

Yeah, all three of those games have excellent fire effects...

I had almost forgotten about MGS3's fire effects.

 

[Gart]

Max Payne had nice fire.

 

[budala1]

Onimusha 3 and Resident Evil 4 have very nice effects

 

[teepo]

i remebered splinter cell having awesome fire.

 

[Ferrio]

RTCW has nice fire.

What I was thinking. I remember playing it w hen it first came out on PC... i didn't like the game at the time but I did go apeshit over the kickass flamethrower graphics.

 

[Ranger X]

Ninja Gaiden Xbox --- i could swear it's fucking real fire!!

 

[shibbs]

Half life 2 got nice fire aswell.

 

[GDJustin]

MGS3's fire looks ok, but the problem is that nothing is on fire. There's just random flames everywhere. Sorta kills the illusion.

 

[epmode]

i remember being impressed with killzone's fire effects, but i only remember it from those animated gifs. it might look worse at full resolution.

 

[Makura]

Fire is difficult to define when your only tools are polygons and texture maps. Even complex CG fire that is based on particles and volume shaders is difficult to deal with.

 

[swoon]

trees always look bad, too

 

[SolidSnakex]

MGS3's fire looks ok, but the problem is that nothing is on fire. There's just random flames everywhere. Sorta kills the illusion.

That's why you've got to see it in motion, that's where it looks extremely believable. It also has really impressive explosions as shown with the scene where Snake blows up an enemy base in the first trailer.

 

[u_neek]

trees always look bad, too

Yeah, trees better look real on next gen consoles..

 

[Drinky Crow]

I want decent volumetric EXPLOSION effects, rather than a translucent bitmap animation plus particles. I want Bad Boys-style butt-kicking bass-heavy explosions that look like the target just got ripped apart in a violent sunburst of light and heat. I want chunks of shit EVERYWHERE, and thick smoke. I want to know that whatever just got hit DONE BLOW'D UP REAL GOOD.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Men of Valor's OXM demo actually has some incredibly impressive fire animation. When the napalm is called down, it looks like I'd expect a napalm strike to look. The vegetation also rocks mightily. Might actually pick it up because of the 'language' changes made to it recently. Goobers can sit with me a lot better, though the intent is the same...

 

[eshwaaz]

I want decent volumetric EXPLOSION effects, rather than a translucent bitmap animation plus particles. I want Bad Boys-style butt-kicking bass-heavy explosions that look like the target just got ripped apart in a violent sunburst of light and heat. I want chunks of shit EVERYWHERE, and thick smoke. I want to know that whatever just got hit DONE BLOW'D UP REAL GOOD.

I couldn't agree more. Developers are largely using the same techniques as they did ten years ago(or more) to generate explosion effects. There's rarely any feeling of heat or intensity or force. Some games still use explosion effects that are actually smaller than the object that's exploding, so you can actually see it pop off under the flames. Lame.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

Yeah, all three of those games have excellent fire effects...

I had almost forgotten about MGS3's fire effects.

Yeah, that looks OK....if you haven't seen RE4's:

 

[Kon Tiki]

Yeah, all three of those games have excellent fire effects...

I had almost forgotten about MGS3's fire effects.

Fire looks nice...but where is the smoke?

 

[ourumov]

There was a Hikaru game that featured very realistic fire...from SEGA.

http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_hikaru.html#bff

 

[dark10x]

Fire looks nice...but where is the smoke?

Well, to be fair, those are from the original trailer. If you watch the E3 2004 trailer, you can see that the fire has come a LONG way from those shots. Not only is it far more "explosive", but there is tons of smoke and overbright effects in place. Watch the part with the flame thrower in the trenches or when the copters explode...

 

[ManaByte]

DOOM 3

 

[Kon Tiki]

Sorry, I am on a media lockout for MGS3. I will take your word for it tho.

 

[God's Hand]

RE4's fire is simply unbeatable.

 

[Dagless M.D.]

Turok 2 had an awesome flame thrower

 

[dark10x]

RE4's fire is simply unbeatable.

I dunno, I think the trench fire in MGS3's recent trailer really does look better...

There is much more of it and it spreads so realistically...

RE4's is EXTREMELY good, though.

 

[talking head]

i remember turok for n64 had amazing fire on the first level. i stared at it for a few minutes.

 

[Goreomedy]

The flamethrower scene in the latest Snake Eater trailer is tops. It's like something out of Backdraft, the way the fire spreads, twirls, steams, smokes. It looks alive.

As for explosions, I'll tip my hat to RE4.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Yeah, that looks OK....if you haven't seen RE4's:

Woah, that explosion is incredible. Im betting that the rocket launcher in RE4 will be an extremely satisfying weapon.

I dunno, I think the trench fire in MGS3's recent trailer really does look better...

Would that be the E3 2004 trailer? If so, I must download. Fire is very pretty.

 

[jett]

Wind Waker's fire/heat/flame effects are pretty amazing.

 

[dark10x]

Would that be the E3 2004 trailer? If so, I must download. Fire is very pretty.

Yep, the E3 04 trailer it is!

Happens quite a ways into the trailer, but the whole thing is worth seeing if you haven't already (I love the trailer!).

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

This is how MGS3's fire really looks:

Normal:

http://img8.exs.cx/img8/9421/mgs3fire01.gif

Flamethrower:

http://img8.exs.cx/img8/1993/mgs3fire02.gif

It looks good, but I find RE4's more realistic.

EDIT: Done!

 

[Kon Tiki]

Ya, thx for the spoiler pics.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I don't think much of MGS's effects. They seem really...thin, almost not there. For some reason I keep thinking of MGS's fire comapred to real fire like a ghost compared to a human.

Hope that makes sense to someone.

 

[Goreomedy]

Eagle Vision, can you edit your gif posts? As URLS instead of image tags.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

I don't think much of MGS's effects. They seem really...thin, almost not there. For some reason I keep thinking of MGS's fire comapred to real fire like a ghost compared to a human.

Hope that makes sense to someone.

Yeah, it looks cool, but not realistic.

 

[White Man]

Why are fire effects in games so lame?

A certain boss in Onimusha 3 would like to have a word with you.

 

[Journeywalker]

I would argue that water has a long way to go, perhaps moreso than fire if RE4 is a benchmark. Yes, water has been mastered as a surface with nice reflection, refraction, undulation, and other effects, but volumetric fluid mechanics are just too processor-intesive for this generation of consoles. I haven't been keeping a close eye on HL2, but does it have any effects like this? I may be optimistic, but I'd love to see something like Pikmin 3 with full water interactivity--stuff like breaking down a dam to flood an area or rain that isn't just an overlay effect.

 

[GIR]

I thought the fire (and the flamethrower) in Turok were done well too, but I think developers are just been lazy there's no reason why fire cant look more realistic and there's no reason why it cant burn stuff perhaps they should use something called "Fractal based dynamic keyframe blending" & "Fractal based dynamic subtraction modelling" (YES! I'm making up stuff )

 

[SKluck]

In terms of particle effects, nothing comes within 100 miles of RE4.

 

[SKluck]

I would argue that water has a long way to go, perhaps moreso than fire if RE4 is a benchmark. Yes, water has been mastered as a surface with nice reflection, refraction, undulation, and other effects, but volumetric fluid mechanics are just too processor-intesive for this generation of consoles. I haven't been keeping a close eye on HL2, but does it have any effects like this? I may be optimistic, but I'd love to see something like Pikmin 3 with full water interactivity--stuff like breaking down a dam to flood an area or rain that isn't just an overlay effect.

The generation after the next generation MAY be able to do that. But definitely not before then.