The feelings I experience when triumphing on the digital battlefield are infinitely more valuable rewards than any digital currency a game can offer. I hope I'm misinterpreting your statement and that you're not merely referring to "loot."
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Guild Wars 2 |OT5| We've got fun and games
- Thread starter Retro
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Bah, they did another Silverwastes? I kind of hate that crap, it's just a giant mindless grind-fest.
I prefer the smaller chained events with isolated stories that flesh out the world. The ones where A takes you to B then depending on what happens in B you can be taken to C or D. I hope there's more of that in the expansion.
The scheduled events are lame as is, Silverwastes doesn't get fun until it's at 98%. Orr definitely has the best balance. Ideal map - something like Orr but capturing all the temples then activates a giant map event like the Silverwastes assault. But don't require a giant coordinated effort, allow it to be something a smaller group could chip away at.
I prefer the smaller chained events with isolated stories that flesh out the world. The ones where A takes you to B then depending on what happens in B you can be taken to C or D. I hope there's more of that in the expansion.
The scheduled events are lame as is, Silverwastes doesn't get fun until it's at 98%. Orr definitely has the best balance. Ideal map - something like Orr but capturing all the temples then activates a giant map event like the Silverwastes assault. But don't require a giant coordinated effort, allow it to be something a smaller group could chip away at.
Problem with Orr is that its a fine map to randomly explore and have fun, but its not going to have any meaningful impact or make you wish to revisit it often. Temple events are tricky because they start randomly (Except for balth), and an idea I would give is: what if lyssa, dwayna etc were tied to a map wide progress bar which fills itself as you do random events? I think it puts SW into a different perspective.
Oh no, dont get me wrong, I enjoy it as much as you do. But ultimately a game has to provide tangible rewards at some point, or at least to certain people. Perhaps rewards is not the proper term, but recognition is.
Oh no, dont get me wrong, I enjoy it as much as you do. But ultimately a game has to provide tangible rewards at some point, or at least to certain people. Perhaps rewards is not the proper term, but recognition is.
UltimateIke
Member
I would dislike them just like I have come to dislike SW. I don't want a bar in the corner constantly asking to be filled. I don't want anyone in the map trying to fill it. Orr maps aren't a constant grind of doing events you don't care about just to get back to the "real" event. The Temple meta events not being instantly repeatable makes it special when they are available.
Orr also benefits from not having any unique currency or rewards you can't earn by doing anything else you enjoy.
Thats the thing I wanted to point out though: the events themselves dont change a single bit. If they were boring events before, they would remain boring. If SW events didnt offer any progress to breach would they be like Orr events?
*ignoring that these events were conceived differently, of course.
UltimateIke
Member
This is my point when I said something like the Verdant Brink being contrived. It stops being about playing the game freely and becomes working on very focused tasks that you are instructed directly to do before you are allowed to move on to the next task ad nauseam.
The individual events are fine, it is how you are expected to do them and how they fit together I take issue with.
The individual events are fine, it is how you are expected to do them and how they fit together I take issue with.
Dog Problems
Banned
Congrats on becoming an office, apple!
(I'm late, sorry)
(I'm late, sorry)
appletoasty
Member
It's been less than 24h, you're hardly late, but thank you!
I think you got culled for inactivity recently but if/when you come back to us I'll invite you myself <3 <3
Dog Problems
Banned
Hah, I figured that happened months ago. But thanks. :-D
Congrats apple!
Also is Anet taking another break this week? There probably would have been a tease for a new profession spec by now.
I just assumed beta week would be a week 'off'
I didn't consider it but it makes sense. Maybe they'll do a blog post with a short video showcasing some of the beta content for people that didn't watch any streams.
Silverwastes and Dry Top do get rather Groundhog Day
but if my Flesh Golem ever lets me down, it's great to feed him a griff and watch him go to town. And then go somewhere else.
but if my Flesh Golem ever lets me down, it's great to feed him a griff and watch him go to town. And then go somewhere else.
TenTonHammer: Guild Wars 2: Heart Of Thorns Closed Beta Impressions
Remember that when the Beta was announced, it very clearly stated "An early, partially completed version of the day/night cycle meta-event experience from Verdant Brink will also be available." so.... Yep.
Remember that when the Beta was announced, it very clearly stated "An early, partially completed version of the day/night cycle meta-event experience from Verdant Brink will also be available." so.... Yep.
I'm pretty sure they stated every map will be like this in the expansion. They want the zones to be like each its own playground.
UltimateIke
Member
Playground is pretty accurate, especially for the Silverwastes. You spend a bunch of time climbing to the top of the slide, just to have a short moment of fun riding it down, before you have to start climbing it over again.
Got a source on this? It's the first I'm hearing of it.
You would have to look around all the interviews they did around the time of the original announcement but from what I gathered at the time they heavily hinted at every map having some sort of overall mechanic to it, quoting Dry-Top and Silverwastes as a base to build upon.
I'll go digging around and see if it's true, but like I said, I was pretty sure. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
It may have gotten lost in the shuffle since there was a lot of news, but I think something like this would have stood out since it's about big clue about what to expect from HoT and their zone design philosophy.
Okay, here's my full thoughts on my concerns with the expansion.
1. ArenaNet aren't releasing RELEVANT information quickly.
This is a big one, and one that is contributing to factors of people getting bored and hype dying down with the expansion. ArenaNet haven't given us a good frame of reference of where they're at in regards to numerical stuff, such as "We've created X amount of zones" and "There will be at least X amount of armor skins available". I keep looking over at FFXIV's expansion and the stream of information they're being given is breakneck compared to this drip feed from ArenaNet. Constant updates on the new classes, updates on what you'll be able to do in each of the new zones, updates on what you can expect from the expansion, art, music, etc.
This is all subjective as well, but I feel like there's not enough constant info dumps to keep up general interest.
2. ArenaNet's current betas are likely 10% of the big picture for the zones and expansion, yet where is the other 90%?
This one is really troubling me. I'm sure ANet's desire is to release "When it's ready" and only tell us "when we've got it locked down" but a PREVIEW of ANYTHING outside of Verdant Brink would be great. Perhaps explain to us how the three tiered verticality will go? Show us a "vertical slice" (tee hee) of the full content in the game, instead of having us beta test a zone we've seen for almost six months? General players who are interested in GW2 are getting tired of seeing the same thing - it makes people think there's nothing else in the expansion besides Verdant Brink.
3. With Verdant Brink BEING the only zone shown, how far off is the expansion and what will future betas be about?
This one is nebulous but very troubling. Since we only have Verdant Brink and no other zone (yet we know they're there), and it's taken nearly half the year to get to beta testing Verdant Brink's mechanics (night/day cycle), what does that mean for the other zones? Are they just going to take our feedback here, tweak the other zones, then drop them all on us in a future beta? That would be a huge info dump that people wouldn't expect, but I seriously doubt ANet would do that. They want to refine things before releasing them, hence the test of Stronghold, and the upcoming WvW test.
4. Where are all the masteries?
This one is also very troubling. Seeing as it's the second beta where we can see the mastery system take shape and fit into your hero panel, it is worrisome that the only masteries IN the system are ones we've known about for months. There's only TWO masteries for Pact Tyria, one for Fractals, and one for Legendaries. You'd think they would (going back to the drip feed info section) drop more info on planned masteries as soon as they're solidified. At least giving us names to speculate on would be great fun and keep the conversation going. One thing we can speculate on is the masteries under Fractals since their names weren't finalized until this build, which is the type of thing I'm talking about. Give us stuff to speculate over. If these are all the masteries in Heart of Thorns, I'm seriously concerned with their concept of "endgame" not being enough and blown through in a week.
5. The release date situation is looking grim.
All of this accumulates into one thought: their release date is most likely NOT August, but rather November, if at all this year. Their pace of development is extremely slow as seen by outside viewers, which doesn't bode well.
Aside
I remembered that portions of ANet have been working on HoT since about after the game launched. So there's probably portions of the game being built that have been ready for quite sometime, and hopefully it's just the mechanics they want are being built and then laid into place, much like building a great house on top of a foundation.
There's several more things I want to have detailed but their marketing team are likely holding them back (and their own policy) from discussing them. Tell us more about adventures you have planned in each zone. Tell us about adventures you want in Tyria proper. Tell us about wyvern fights outside of the one we've seen. Tell us about Mordrem tactics that supposedly the new AI will do. There's so much to discuss but they are so hesitant it hurts.
1. ArenaNet aren't releasing RELEVANT information quickly.
This is a big one, and one that is contributing to factors of people getting bored and hype dying down with the expansion. ArenaNet haven't given us a good frame of reference of where they're at in regards to numerical stuff, such as "We've created X amount of zones" and "There will be at least X amount of armor skins available". I keep looking over at FFXIV's expansion and the stream of information they're being given is breakneck compared to this drip feed from ArenaNet. Constant updates on the new classes, updates on what you'll be able to do in each of the new zones, updates on what you can expect from the expansion, art, music, etc.
This is all subjective as well, but I feel like there's not enough constant info dumps to keep up general interest.
2. ArenaNet's current betas are likely 10% of the big picture for the zones and expansion, yet where is the other 90%?
This one is really troubling me. I'm sure ANet's desire is to release "When it's ready" and only tell us "when we've got it locked down" but a PREVIEW of ANYTHING outside of Verdant Brink would be great. Perhaps explain to us how the three tiered verticality will go? Show us a "vertical slice" (tee hee) of the full content in the game, instead of having us beta test a zone we've seen for almost six months? General players who are interested in GW2 are getting tired of seeing the same thing - it makes people think there's nothing else in the expansion besides Verdant Brink.
3. With Verdant Brink BEING the only zone shown, how far off is the expansion and what will future betas be about?
This one is nebulous but very troubling. Since we only have Verdant Brink and no other zone (yet we know they're there), and it's taken nearly half the year to get to beta testing Verdant Brink's mechanics (night/day cycle), what does that mean for the other zones? Are they just going to take our feedback here, tweak the other zones, then drop them all on us in a future beta? That would be a huge info dump that people wouldn't expect, but I seriously doubt ANet would do that. They want to refine things before releasing them, hence the test of Stronghold, and the upcoming WvW test.
4. Where are all the masteries?
This one is also very troubling. Seeing as it's the second beta where we can see the mastery system take shape and fit into your hero panel, it is worrisome that the only masteries IN the system are ones we've known about for months. There's only TWO masteries for Pact Tyria, one for Fractals, and one for Legendaries. You'd think they would (going back to the drip feed info section) drop more info on planned masteries as soon as they're solidified. At least giving us names to speculate on would be great fun and keep the conversation going. One thing we can speculate on is the masteries under Fractals since their names weren't finalized until this build, which is the type of thing I'm talking about. Give us stuff to speculate over. If these are all the masteries in Heart of Thorns, I'm seriously concerned with their concept of "endgame" not being enough and blown through in a week.
5. The release date situation is looking grim.
All of this accumulates into one thought: their release date is most likely NOT August, but rather November, if at all this year. Their pace of development is extremely slow as seen by outside viewers, which doesn't bode well.
Aside
I remembered that portions of ANet have been working on HoT since about after the game launched. So there's probably portions of the game being built that have been ready for quite sometime, and hopefully it's just the mechanics they want are being built and then laid into place, much like building a great house on top of a foundation.
There's several more things I want to have detailed but their marketing team are likely holding them back (and their own policy) from discussing them. Tell us more about adventures you have planned in each zone. Tell us about adventures you want in Tyria proper. Tell us about wyvern fights outside of the one we've seen. Tell us about Mordrem tactics that supposedly the new AI will do. There's so much to discuss but they are so hesitant it hurts.
shysaursoft
Member
Have you seen the community? I don't blame them.
People are writing 10,000 word essays about the xpac, when there is *nothing* to say yet, and people just being impatient.
I've seen this cycle so much, it's just old.
"I wish Anet would say more."
"I wish Anet said something else."
"I wish Anet hadn't said anything at all."
I console myself by remembering that once the xpac is actually out, all this current "omg Anet can't beta" crap is forgotten.
Not to gloss over your entire post, but the bolded part you've written here is going to pretty much cover my entire response.
There's no idea how old the version of Verdant Brink that appeared in the beta was, or how much they cut out because it led to places they don't want accessed yet. Imagine if they showed a playable demo of Orr, but you could only access the parts around Fort Trinity, and the events just kept repeating and never led out into the map.
A lack of info should not be mistaken for a lack of progress.
LumpOfCole
Member
We'll know the release date come E3, and that's only three weeks away. All the evidence is there. I wouldn't be surprised if preorders became available immediate after Anet's presentation.
OK, but the point is that they need to show there's more there. Hint at it, tease it. Don't just put us in an area and make us think this is all there is.
I look at it this way; they can work on the expansion, or they can waste time getting unfinished stuff ready to show off to a community that will only demand more. I mean, just look at the demo; people say they just want to see progress and don't care if it's unfinished, but they play the demo and then complain about how unfinished it is. Meanwhile, the devs have to get the demo prepared, monitor it closely, fix any bugs immediately... with the net benefit being a community that says "It was broken and unfinished and now I have all these doubts!"
I know this is the first MMO expansion for a lot of people, but this is the fourth or fifth time for me and this is playing out pretty much exactly as it always has (which is itself disappointing, but oh well). Big announcement, trickle of information, lots of estimates but no solid info (especially on release dates), lots of waiting, then a big release (and the cycle usually continues; "everyone chews up the content in a couple weeks then bitches they want more", but we'll see how ArenaNet plays it). If anything, ArenaNet has been much more open about the development process; we've had lots of blog posts followed by live streams (including one marathon 4 hour one). Usually it's just an announcement trailer then radio silence, with things like detailed class changes coming just before release.
The bottom line though is, the expansion model for MMOs is shit, and always has been; make an announcement and then nothing happens for months (or years, in WoW's case). It's bad for the community (everyone is waiting for new stuff, vocal minority gets to squat on the soapbox), it's bad for the developer (accusations of miscommunication, crunch, etc.)... I imagine the only people who really get away clean are the investors.
I feel like in a better universe, they kept going with the Living Story over the last couple months and plan to release specializations, guild halls, etc. as feature packs.
I think if anyone believes that's all there is based on the little Verdant Brink preview, they're pretty silly. There's obviously more. But then again, we don't know exactly what the "more" actually is.
While I like the concepts and broad descriptions of what we know so far, it would be short-sighted of me to form any real opinion just off that information. I think I won't be able to get excited at all until I'm actually able to explore in the zones and play and see how cool it is for myself. Just the kind of person I am. I've never been the type to read a ton about games. Like Retro said, the expansion cycle just sucks in MMOs to begin with.
I'm hopeful some beans will be spilled at E3.
shysaursoft
Member
No god please no more vapid empty hype, gaming has enough. I'd rather NO PR, than bad PR.
No PR, once the game/xpac actually comes out, and the game can speak for itself.
Bad PR, taints the game before people have even experienced it, and colour people's experience when they do play it. You can't undo that, even if the game is amazing.
I agree Anet's never been too great at their marketing, but I don't think a constant stream of tiddlybits just so that impatient kids have something new to titillate them every day, is the way to go.
(And I don't think harassing Anet members over this is going to be productive at all)
I haven't done that event since like month 2 after launch. Sweet.
What does that even mean?
Means instead of wondering what ANet is doing while I'm waiting, I'll bash some frookin' heads in m8 on da spvp.
UltimateIke
Member
We should decide on a time everyone is available, and we can look around for other events in the area while we are at it.
Not to bag on you Ashodin, but how much information did you get on the FFXIV expansion in the last 6 months? Part of the information dump you're getting now is because their new expansion is dropping literally in 1 month. All reasonable estimates for the GW2 expansion is 3 months from now at the minimum, and like to be a few months longer than that.
Nah it's okay, most people don't seem to share my sentiments on such, so it's all good.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I could really use one of those "Keep calm and let Colin tell you it's going to be alright" posters right about now...
shysaursoft
Member
Perception is reality. Better to have low expectations; best to have no expectations.
I didn't believe there would be an expansion until it was officially announced. As we stand four months later, I have no reason to believe it contains any more than a new profession and eight new sub-professions, a new WvW borderlands map, a PvP game mode we won't be able to access regularly, and approximately four new Dry Top/Silverwastes-like PvE zones. And when it turns out again that I'm wrong, I'll be nothing but pleasantly surprised.
I know it's insane to state this on NeoGAF, of all places, but we should try to break free from the mindset that wanting is more pleasing than having.
Bu-Bu-Believe! (tm)
I also didn't believe in an expansion until the announcement, but somehow I feel like we'll get more than four new zones. Then again, Maguuma is three zones outside of Maguuma Wastes. Kryta is about six zones. Ascalon is about five zones. So 4-8 zones for Heart of Maguuma sounds reasonable.
Beyond the other things you've mentioned... We know we will have guild halls still and my low expectations for those is that it'll just be an instance for us to chat room in.
And 50% of what I'm actually excited for will be added to the base game. I'm more excited for the system changes than most everything else, which is kind of sad...
I also didn't believe in an expansion until the announcement, but somehow I feel like we'll get more than four new zones. Then again, Maguuma is three zones outside of Maguuma Wastes. Kryta is about six zones. Ascalon is about five zones. So 4-8 zones for Heart of Maguuma sounds reasonable.
Beyond the other things you've mentioned... We know we will have guild halls still and my low expectations for those is that it'll just be an instance for us to chat room in.
And 50% of what I'm actually excited for will be added to the base game. I'm more excited for the system changes than most everything else, which is kind of sad...
You've always been a systems kind of guy.
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