Can I say that the Staff auto attack sounds cool as hell and very "Monkish"? Spirit orbs man.
Oh Retro, OH Dagger was replaced with OH Sword.
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Can I say that the Staff auto attack sounds cool as hell and very "Monkish"? Spirit orbs man.
Oh Retro, OH Dagger was replaced with OH Sword.
Ah, I hadn't seen that change, very nice.
And yes, I really like the idea of Revenants kind of being a monk-like profession and I hope they crib a bit from the GW1 class where it fits. I was hoping Thief would get Staff so they could be the "Martial Arts" class someday, but I guess I'll settle for plate-wearing spirit-channeling badasses =p.
hockeypuck
Member
I'm still a little irked that mesmer scepter autoattack, warrior/guard mace autoattack, and engi wrench autoattack all use the same animations.
There was a post on reddit today predicting the update schedule, and he made me realize something. Much like how Elementalist has 4 trait lines matching 4 elements, and then one general trait line, Revenant is likely to be the same with 4 trait lines matching 4 legends. So (assuming the data mine is correct) Shiro will likely be the fourth base game legend and focus on an offensive power or crit playstyle, and Glint would be the HoT elite specialization legend.
Yep. Final base traitline will be centered in offensive stuff and based on Shiro. Furthermore, they will reveal dual swords for rev too to use with shiro.
Final legend will be the elite spec with glint. The thing that bothers me though is that it will mean shield will be the rev spec weapon, and mesmers already have shield as their spec weapon on this batch. I was hoping all specs would use different weapons for the first batch, and rev's current mainhand offering is a bit poor if you want to play defensively. If they make a spec in the future to fix that, you will be unable to use shield along with it.
Final legend will be the elite spec with glint. The thing that bothers me though is that it will mean shield will be the rev spec weapon, and mesmers already have shield as their spec weapon on this batch. I was hoping all specs would use different weapons for the first batch, and rev's current mainhand offering is a bit poor if you want to play defensively. If they make a spec in the future to fix that, you will be unable to use shield along with it.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm a fan of sword + shield. That would be cool!
Interesting that you're taking it as an honor. My brother named his newborn completely after me, middle name included. And all I could think is the potential credit card fraud he'll be capable of.
You know what to do when he gets his first card.
Kos Luftar
Member
The decision was made purely based in hopes that he will turn out to be as awesome as you.
How do you think Kos deals with all of the unwarranted hate we give him?
Glint with Shield makes a weird sort of sense given the Legendary Shield is the Flameseeker Chronicles. I'm with you on hoping that all of the elite specs would be different weapons, but there was bound to be some overlap eventually.
They could always gain MH Axe as a defensive weapon. Offhand axe already has Chilled + Shadowstep and a pull, so maybe axe is their defense-oriented weapon? /shrug
Almost certain it's shield because of Flameseeker Chronicles.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I imagine him becoming a stripper and making out with a moose while him and the moose are covered in maple syrup, as 500 wilderness lumberjacks who only speak french are cheering them on and throwing hockey sticks at each other in a sensual sea of arousal.
It would be an AMAZING adult film. the first mature film to be be banned by the UN!
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I really liked the staff skills on this PoI episode. It looks really nice, and the Ventari tablet is very cool. I like how different it is. I also what Legend they said it would play really nice with.
People kept screaming Shiro and two swords!
What if the Last Legend was Master Togo?
RIP. Mr 2Go was the man!
People kept screaming Shiro and two swords!
What if the Last Legend was Master Togo?
RIP. Mr 2Go was the man!
appletoasty
Member
Watching the livestream from earlier, just some thoughts;
Revenant Staff #5 on a bridge in WvW is going to be very satisfying.
The Tablet moves pretty quick. Yay, no fuckbucket!
The Tablet skill are insane. This is the most active heal / support scheme I've seen in an MMO. People who complain that they can't be dedicated healbots in GW2 are gonna have to check this out.
Revenant Staff #5 on a bridge in WvW is going to be very satisfying.
The Tablet moves pretty quick. Yay, no fuckbucket!
The Tablet skill are insane. This is the most active heal / support scheme I've seen in an MMO. People who complain that they can't be dedicated healbots in GW2 are gonna have to check this out.
Yep at the last line. Immediately thought Ventari Legend is PERFECT for those who cry foul at no dedicated healer. Thing was pretty much made for a dedicated support role.
Yeah, I just got to the traits, each tier having an outgoing healing boost is insanely cool, though I'm 100% sure this is going to lead to all the elitist dungeon groups demanding a Revenant now (at least it mixes that meta up a little bit)/
And the best part? You actually have to pay attention and use the Tablet correctly to pull off this healing instead of just playing whack-a-mole with health bars. From the way this appears to be set up, the people who complained they couldn't be a dedicated healer in GW2 have no excuse but laziness anymore.
I wonder if we'll see much use for Hammer + Ventari with a Superior Sigil.. of Water since the AOE heal occurs on the target and Hammer appears to be their only ranged weapon.
I'm surprised there isn't more synergy with the healing orbs / fragments, they seem like they'd make a cool addition to the whole package. For example, the Tranquil Benediction trait ("The orbs you create while wielding a staff will now grant swiftness and regeneration when picked up by allies.") is limited to staff; I feel like it should also affect the shards left behind by the Energy Expulsion elite skill and the Natural Abundance GM Trait ("Create energy fragments around Ventari's Tablet when using a legendary centaur stance skill").
Having little drops of healing breaking off everywhere as you fight seems like an interesting mechanic they could have incorporated into the traits. Maybe instead of Blinding Truths blinding enemies on use of a heal skill, it can kick out fragments instead. That way you can utilize the fragments (and all the later traits that improve them) in another way even if you're not currently using Ventari stance.
Having little drops of healing breaking off everywhere as you fight seems like an interesting mechanic they could have incorporated into the traits. Maybe instead of Blinding Truths blinding enemies on use of a heal skill, it can kick out fragments instead. That way you can utilize the fragments (and all the later traits that improve them) in another way even if you're not currently using Ventari stance.
It refers to them as Fragments when they're created by the tablet though, and it specifically says "while wielding staff", so it seems like they've got two different things that do the exact same thing. The fragments seem like they give a lot more healing (as they should, since the orbs are generated by an auto-attack), but I can't help but feel like having small and large orbs with different healing values would work, and that'd let you synergize more with the traits.
Yeah, really cool, and I hope this sets the stage for Thieves to eventually get them too because goddamn do I ever want a bo staff wielding monk now.
Also worth adding that during the livestream, they emphasized this was "our first melee staff that we're releasing" again. I guess that still leaves things open for Druid staff or them to surprise us with Thief (everyone seems sure it's rifle, but I haven't seen anything that positively confirms it's happening).
I don't see this being the case for existing content. The best players simply finish most fights too quickly to need a dedicated support character. Why spec for healing when your party can down a boss in a couple seconds?
Where I'm really excited to see this being used is in soloing, duoing, or other self imposed challenges like that. I'd love to run Ventari/Staff Rev and be full support while a friend goes full DPS.
Yeah, existing content isn't going to be affected much but any future content (especially the challenging stuff they keep dropping hints about) is going to go this way, I suspect. ArenaNet is aware of the Zerker meta and it seems like something they can't possibly be happy with considering it's all about sapping the strategy / mechanics out of a fight. If this new content is built to stomp the usual zerker tactics, the first thing people are going to try is the ol' Healbot.
I like playing support (still running a shout warrior, after all), but I hate the form it takes in most MMOs and I don't particularly like the idea of it ever being required to advance.
I don't know about sapping the strategy. There aren't many fights in the game that are particularly changed due to the zerker meta. Now, this may sound crazy, but let's pick CoE explorable to test it. During the corridor part, right as you enter, a common strategy is to have someone run ahead, place blocks to block the first AoE, nearly insta-kill frost wolf attack and then run into a corner where all mobs will be stacked up. Now despite being stacked up, the mobs are as dangerous as any other case, and as such you need active defenses to defeat them while remaining alive, because just stacking is not enough. All players must be aware of what the enemies are doing, and always be prepared to dodge when needed. It's not an easy task as it seems and it's easy to compare a pug group to a group that gets along better and see some differences despite the base strategy being the same.
I think it's a particularly troubling thing to see so many people associate the berserker meta with stacking in a corner and trying to kill mobs. There are many small details that also happen precisely because, just because you have lots of mobs together to cleave, that you must watch out for because you have tons of mobs on you. An example I could give is the Ascalon fractal on scale 50. The Ascalon Warriors can OHKO anyone, and as such what is usually done is stack in a corner and stack blinds to kill em. On our GAF runs, we have the guardian run ahead, apply Justice to blind the first attacks and then pull all mobs together as we cleave them down while always keeping blinds and other CCs on the Ascalon Warriors. Both are examples of strategies that maximize offense yet keeping passive defense mechanisms up which require as much attention as any other style of fighting.
Now, we could argue about speedrunning tactics, which is stuff like skipping content and etc, which I think it's more up your alley Retro, because they involve avoiding content designed to be done. But the berserker strategies are not lazy by any means, and although there are abuses (like, say, Ice Bow 4 spam), these are not strategies that are employed on all berserker encounters nor are what one realistically expect of every one of them. I'm not saying the berserker meta is suitable to everyone (some people can't handle it after all, and that's fine), but that it's a bit weird to call it such a brainless meta when you have to think twice as much on what your enemy will do because you could get downed or killed far more easily.
Appletoasty and I duod Lupi without exploiting, weee.
It used to be easier since his single target projectile wouldn't hit in melee range. But we still did it.
It took a lot of time to learn what we each needed to bring and do. Made a lot of mistakes. But we killed it dead.
For now, I just provide the ending as proof.
https://d.maxfile.ro/nafgjhwhqs.webm
One we get better at it, I'll give full vid.
ARAH indeed
It used to be easier since his single target projectile wouldn't hit in melee range. But we still did it.
It took a lot of time to learn what we each needed to bring and do. Made a lot of mistakes. But we killed it dead.
For now, I just provide the ending as proof.
https://d.maxfile.ro/nafgjhwhqs.webm
One we get better at it, I'll give full vid.
ARAH indeed
appletoasty
Member
HE DED jfkdkjlgfkdjlfdsajk
appletoasty
Member
no just excited post
Well done both of you. Adriaaa was cheering you two on with that "ARAH" in guild chat.
UltimateIke
Member
Speaking of Adriaaa, I bought more T3 Cultural Armor for him to admire.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Holy shit. Did you just have 600 gold laying around?
UltimateIke
Member
I've been buying bits of it over the past few months. I finally decided last night to get the remaining pieces and enough Transmutation Charges to make use of it all.
Look at the Sylvari gloves in-game, they have berries on them. I'm confident that no other race can run about with berries growing on their wrists. Welcome to the big time Ike.
Sorry for taking my sweet time replying to this, I read it when I got up but there's been shopping, getting Meg's new PC set up (aside: Windows 8 is horrible) and watching the last couple episodes of Mad Men. I'd also like to add that though my response is short (for me, and this kind of subject), I'm not disregarding everything in your post.
Well, what else can we call it, really? Before people are told how they should be playing (Berserker stats, stacking in corners, etc.), they play the game "for real" (and notice I didn't say they play the game "right", more on that shortly); dodging, staying mobile, using whatever skill suits their build, needs or preference, etc. They play the way they learned to play while leveling, the way that naturally comes to them, because that's usually how games like this work. Can we not assume that the developers intended for content to be played that way as well?
To me, stacking has always been the community's response to the absence of the Trinity and the chaos that design decision brings. Instead of dealing with enemies that refuse to behave in an orderly fashion (as they would when glued to a tank), players have found a way to neutralize their behavior entirely, trumping the intended strategy and mechanics of each fight by exploiting the way the game works. Though I use that term, I don't consider stacking to be an actual exploit; it's an unintended blind spot in the game's mechanics. As I stated in my earlier comment, it's one I hope ArenaNet fixes.
You don't have to sell me on stacking having it's own set of challenges; believe me, I've seen it fail often enough to know it requires a certain level of skill and awareness. Whether it's the same level of skill as playing the game "for real" doesn't matter. I could make a big, long rant about how it teaches players bad habits and stacking has ruined dungeons, but you know what? The bottom line is that ArenaNet didn't anticipate it when developing their content and it's on them. I can't blame the players for taking the path of least resistance, as tempting as it might be, because the loophole is there. It exists. Nobody is hacking or cheating or doing anything that breaks or alters the game; they're using an oversight to complete the content as efficiently as possible. Whether I think gaming should be about efficiency or not (spoilers thought, I don't think it should) is irrelevant; stacking exists because the game was built in such a way that such a method is possible. I don't believe it should remain a possibility in the future, though.
The whole reason the 'zerker meta exists in PVE though is that players need to burn enemies down as quickly as possible because they can't last long in the stack. You've given an example of using blinds and other CCs in high level fractals, but neither of those are directly related to the use of Berserker gear. It's only when you're stacking them in a corner to cleave them down that it matters; you need the blinds and CCs to survive because you're stacking. I feel like this isn't a particularly good example because you're describing a rare situation with severe circumstances (the warriors one-shot you regardless of gear and build), whereas most of the zerker / stacking exists for efficiency's sake or to negate the mechanics of the fight. It's kind of an outlier, is what I'm saying.
I never said it was brainless, just that it's a way to negate the intended mechanics of too many fights by turning them into strictly a DPS race. People want challenging fights with interesting mechanics, but that can't exist in the same game as one where a trick can be repeatedly used to trump the intended fight mechanics.
Well, what else can we call it, really? Before people are told how they should be playing (Berserker stats, stacking in corners, etc.), they play the game "for real" (and notice I didn't say they play the game "right", more on that shortly); dodging, staying mobile, using whatever skill suits their build, needs or preference, etc. They play the way they learned to play while leveling, the way that naturally comes to them, because that's usually how games like this work. Can we not assume that the developers intended for content to be played that way as well?
To me, stacking has always been the community's response to the absence of the Trinity and the chaos that design decision brings. Instead of dealing with enemies that refuse to behave in an orderly fashion (as they would when glued to a tank), players have found a way to neutralize their behavior entirely, trumping the intended strategy and mechanics of each fight by exploiting the way the game works. Though I use that term, I don't consider stacking to be an actual exploit; it's an unintended blind spot in the game's mechanics. As I stated in my earlier comment, it's one I hope ArenaNet fixes.
You don't have to sell me on stacking having it's own set of challenges; believe me, I've seen it fail often enough to know it requires a certain level of skill and awareness. Whether it's the same level of skill as playing the game "for real" doesn't matter. I could make a big, long rant about how it teaches players bad habits and stacking has ruined dungeons, but you know what? The bottom line is that ArenaNet didn't anticipate it when developing their content and it's on them. I can't blame the players for taking the path of least resistance, as tempting as it might be, because the loophole is there. It exists. Nobody is hacking or cheating or doing anything that breaks or alters the game; they're using an oversight to complete the content as efficiently as possible. Whether I think gaming should be about efficiency or not (spoilers thought, I don't think it should) is irrelevant; stacking exists because the game was built in such a way that such a method is possible. I don't believe it should remain a possibility in the future, though.
The whole reason the 'zerker meta exists in PVE though is that players need to burn enemies down as quickly as possible because they can't last long in the stack. You've given an example of using blinds and other CCs in high level fractals, but neither of those are directly related to the use of Berserker gear. It's only when you're stacking them in a corner to cleave them down that it matters; you need the blinds and CCs to survive because you're stacking. I feel like this isn't a particularly good example because you're describing a rare situation with severe circumstances (the warriors one-shot you regardless of gear and build), whereas most of the zerker / stacking exists for efficiency's sake or to negate the mechanics of the fight. It's kind of an outlier, is what I'm saying.
I never said it was brainless, just that it's a way to negate the intended mechanics of too many fights by turning them into strictly a DPS race. People want challenging fights with interesting mechanics, but that can't exist in the same game as one where a trick can be repeatedly used to trump the intended fight mechanics.
No, I get how that can be cool, it's always fun to have those moments where you steamroll an enemy and feel like a badass. I guess the counter-counter argument is that after a while it would be less satisfying, with a counter-counter sub-argument being potentially unable to fully savor the victory because it was earned via a loophole (regardless of whether that loophole requires skill or not).
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