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[Vigilant Walrus]

The scary thing is, WP is one of the more level-headed streamers/casters who has been pretty critical of the game on more than one occasion, but one of the top comments in the thread about his video outright claims he's a marketing shill ("literally every partnered content creator agrees with essentially everything Anet does."). There's a guy who keeps creating the same kind of threads over and over (he's doing "daily reminders" not to pre-purchase) and is now posting conspiracy theory videos not just in /gw2 but /mmorpg now too.

You know things are bad when the tantrum shifts from passively salty to being aggressively Tinfoil Hat-y.

I don't understand it. The thing about this is that it's collectively so many different things people want.

Some want the character slot but are fine with the price. I think this is the argument with the most weight to it. They didn't communicate this earlier, and the playerbase had reason to be expect, new class = character slot based on the behavior offered on GW1, Factions, Nightfall and EOTN. I think this is the best solution.

Some want to be rewarded for being veterans. They are disgusted by the base game being offered despite it being a practice known for MMORPGs in the past (like Everquest) or subsequently what has happened to the MMOs over the years that started out as B2P and which then went F2P.
This one is really the most lame of all the arguments. You're not being offered the base game again. The barrier of entry is merely decreased for a potential new player who is buying an expansion to a 3 year old game.
I fucking hated how Rockstar made exclusive missions, weapons and cars for the previous gen owners of GTA5 when they made that game for PC gamers. People who had been waiting just for the announcement of the PC version in its 3 year development, and the plus one waiting period, followed by two delays. It was, in some attempt to appease or reward loyalty for the first buyers, but it felt like a slap in the face to people who merely just happened to not own that platform and was literally waiting for years for transparency and proper communication on it. It's basically saying: hey, you were not around then, so fuck you! Here is some stuff you don't get - Or alternative, buy or old product on a machine you don't have and activate some stupid code. I understand why people are upset. Don't tell me that veteran pandering is not partially entitlement if you are seriously going to act like a victim and saying your appalled and disgusting and feel like your being spit in the face.

It reminds me of the Left 4 Dead 2 controversity and the disgusting "valve is the gestapo" of gaming shit posts they made in their attempt to boycot it. Sometimes gaming communities are really toxic and overblow things.


Some people want the lower price, which I can't say I agree or disagree with because it comes down to the value of the product.
There was a reason why they stopped doing stand-alone campaigns with NF and Factions and it had to do with that veteran players didn't want the developers to build a new 1-20 lvl experience every new campaign as it took time and resources. It's a weird argument to make obstructions about when something is okay and when it is not. GW2 is already so untraditional in its approach. No gear treadmills, or anything, which makes it hard to compare to Heavensward(FFXIV) and Fall of the Empire(SWTOR), or Destinys next expansion.
It really comes down to the value and content of the final product. The hard content, that is meant to be repeated.

A Call of Duty Season Pass is 50 dollars. That is basically 4 map packs. A WoW expansion is now 50 dollars which is a subscription game. I've bought 2 SWTOR expansions which are now being given away for free to new players after the next one comes out.
It's a hard comparison to make and it doesn't make sense to me to set it up like "50 dollars is too high".
That depends entirely on what is in it. They are going to be judged on the price of the product (particularly now) in the reviews and word of mouth, so they know they have to be confident about the value of it, or the expansion will suffer.
I agree with TP that prepurchasing is not a good idea in general. Of course it isn't. The game is not done. You should wait until it is done and see how it ends up.



In this whole debate what kills me the most, is that people act like the expansion is being forced on people. Unlike SWTOR and Heavenward (and Destiny too I presume?) you're not fucked if you don't buy this expansion.

You can join your guild in the guild hall, you get 3 reworked traitlines, there is no higher levels of gear or levels so you are not going to be power wise inferior in WvW or sPvP or dungeons.
You don't get the new comparable trait lines. the new class and am not able to explore Maguuma, but you can still play and not feel completely forced to buy it. That was one of the major draws in GW1. People said they would force you to buy factions, because people didn't believe that they could make a product with a subscription fee. Conspiracy theorists ohoy! I know many people who only had 1 or 2 campaigns.


In all of this, I just hate the rhetoric and the tone of the debate. It makes me tune out and distance myself their passive-aggressive entitlement. I agree about the character slot. They should do that. I agree about that they need to do better with communication to not let the player base let their expectations run wild, and I agree they need to word information better, but I don't agree with giving in to this behavior. It would be like trying to make a shitty kid not cry in the grocery store by bribing the kid with candy bars to make it stop screaming.
You're just setting a dangerous precedent for the future tone between the developers and the players. I hope they won't do that. I hope they will come out and say that the expansion is worth 50 dollars, and it has enough content to signify that. I hope they will explain that they will not punish people who dont want to buy it, and that they are equally committed to both new and old players.

 

[Moondrop]

My version: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC2AOoBXQ~ I've got bleeds, torment, and confusion.

I don't get that condi damage stacking trait if you plan to be shattering. A "condi shatter" build seems crying out for torch offhand, which fits perfectly in that trait slot. It would give you access to burning and condi cleanse and more sources of stealth and blind, both of which you've traited for.

Love that block/evade into blind into confusion trait. Hadn't noticed it before. Maybe I'll make a scepter/sword+sword/torch condi shatter build around that.

 

[leng jai]

Random crafting of Rodgort one year ago redeemed.

 

[Retro]

In all of this, I just hate the rhetoric and the tone of the debate.

This is my main gripe as well, it's not that people don't have a valid complaint, it's the manner in which they're behaving. If people are upset about something it's understandable to voice their concern, but people are doing crap like harassing devs on their private accounts and generally acting like it's a life and death situation. Folks out there in the wild, wooly corners of the internet need to take a breath and realize it's a video game, and I'm always grateful that GAF never goes down that hole.

 

[Proven]

I don't get that condi damage stacking trait if you plan to be shattering. A "condi shatter" build seems crying out for torch offhand, which fits perfectly in that trait slot. It would give you access to burning and condi cleanse and more sources of stealth and blind, both of which you've traited for.

Love that block/evade into blind into confusion trait. Hadn't noticed it before. Maybe I'll make a scepter/sword+sword/torch condi shatter build around that.

Oops, that was a misclick. I wanted the Phantasm shatter trait. http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC2AOkBbQ~

Other options include: Switching around Chaos traits. Master of Manipulation can be used to deal with ranged burst from Rangers and Engineers with the use of Blink or Mimic. I've already mentioned the Staff trait, but Mirror of Anguish can also get some use in an interrupt build.

I can switch Pistol traits here and there if necessary. I can lose a lot of damage from the blind foes on shatter trait if I swapped it for Mirror on projectile evade, but that may be necessary during certain PvE encounters. I can also use Phantasmal Fury (along with Phantasmal Haste in Illusions) if I'm going to be fighting some boss that won't be moving all that often. Basically going from Condi Shatter to a Condi Phantasm build.

And I don't like the Torch much for this build only because I'm depending on multi-hit phantasm attacks to stack up bleeds and confusion, then shattering them for torment, blind, and more confusion. The two best phantasms for that are on Pistol and Focus. Plus, I wanted to do interrupts. If I dropped the interrupts and pistol, I'd probably go with Torch, and that would give me an extra blast finisher so I could have Staff as my weapon swap. As it is now, even if the build isn't viable I want to find ways to lower phantasm cooldowns because I can't wait for Alacrity and Chronophantasma.

 

[Nemesis121]

People are venting, once they calm down they will pay the price or move the fuck on..I am still salty at that price but I am getting it..

 

[spiritfox]

Man Grandmaster Explosives is such a tough choice. Shrapnel is always great, blast on dodge is the new Evasive Arcana, and Siege Rounds seem pretty good for Mortar, especially for its fire field.

 

[Ashodin]

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgICpAR8A5w~

Some sort of crazy Toughness/Ferocity setup (Using Cavalier's)

Mace/Shield, Sword/Shield. You never lose the additional toughness, so it's always factored into your Retributive Armor. I already bought the gear, and I'm eager to try out the build on Tuesday.

My newest concoction of gear, using Condition damage (Rampager's) as the base. I have a build for it as well on Tuesday that it will morph into.

 

[Emitan]

I think this is closest to the current Thief dungeon meta http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvAJkBdg~

Although I want to try running with this for some more sustain plus stealth is fun and I want to use it more http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvAJkA_g~

I think $50 is too much considering I already own the base game. But I don't want very many other games this year so I pre-ordered anyway.

 

[Morokh]

About the change to spectral walk :

Clarification: the only thing that was changed was that you can’t use “Spectral Walk” in air. You can still use “Spectral Recall” which is the skill that returns you to your original location. This means you can still use Spectral Walk, jump off a cliff and teleport back.
What you can’t do is jump off a cliff, double tap Spectral Walk (and then Spectral Recall) just before hitting the ground to nullify falling damage.

 

[Neo Dark]

So... checked out the site today. Saw the price. Thought they were crazy for 50 dollars. Saw the core game was included. Thought they were even more crazy. Checked forums to see if anyone else noticed. See you guys did.

Come on. 50 dollars really feels like a slap in the face at this point especially since those that own the game feel like they pay the same price and are missing out on something they paid for. There really should be some kind of compromise. Do something like if you already own the game, the expansion is normally 40 dollars, but if you purchase in the first week, it'll only be 30 dollars. At least make some kind of middle ground. At this rate, I'll just go enjoy something else while I wait for that expansion to go on sale.

 

[silvermember]

So... checked out the site today. Saw the price. Thought they were crazy for 50 dollars. Saw the core game was included. Thought they were even more crazy. Checked forums to see if anyone else noticed. See you guys did.

Come on. 50 dollars really feels like a slap in the face at this point especially since those that own the game feel like they pay the same price and are missing out on something they paid for. There really should be some kind of compromise. Do something like if you already own the game, the expansion is normally 40 dollars, but if you purchase in the first week, it'll only be 30 dollars. At least make some kind of middle ground. At this rate, I'll just go enjoy something else while I wait for that expansion to go on sale.

50 is for the expac, just like every everquest, ultimate edition of games, new players get a discount. Unlike old players, new players don't get s1 or s2 for free. They are forever behind.

If you don't think the game is worth 50 bucks based on current information, that's fine. But the terrible argument about the inclusion of the base game is simply just a terrible argument. Do you complain when a product you bought years ago, gets a price drop?

 

[Morokh]

50 is for the expac, just like every everquest, ultimate edition of games, new players get a discount. Unlike old players, new players don't get s1 or s2 for free. They are forever behind.

If you don't think the game is worth 50 bucks based on current information, that's fine. But the terrible argument about the inclusion of the base game is simply just a terrible argument. Do you complain when a product you bought years ago, gets a price drop?

People that already own the game don't necessarily have Living Story unlocked, throwing living story in the mix as sort of an 'you played living story for free that's your bonus' argument is, in your own words a 'terrible' one.

50 bucks is the price of the expansion, fine but then for that price everyone should get the same thing, which isn't the case, some get the expansion + a cool bonus, others just get the expansion.
Their offering just isn't fair between new buyers and people that already own the game.

It has nothing to do with any kind of promotion, temporary deal or anything of sorts, two people will buy the exact same things with exactly the same conditions in the exact same timeframe and one will walk home with something more.

 

[Minamu]

Where can I read about what traits are getting put into the mesmer base? It's all a bit confusing

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

People that already own the game don't necessarily have Living Story unlocked, throwing living story in the mix as sort of an 'you played living story for free that's your bonus' argument is, in your own words a 'terrible' one.

50 bucks is the price of the expansion, fine but then for that price everyone should get the same thing, which isn't the case, some get the expansion + a cool bonus, others just get the expansion.
Their offering just isn't fair between new buyers and people that already own the game.

It has nothing to do with any kind of promotion, temporary deal or anything of sorts, two people will buy the exact same things with exactly the same conditions in the exact same timeframe and one will walk home with something more.

The game is almost 3 years old. The expansion doesn't have an announcement (release date). You get an opportunity to play now. That is not nothing.
The game rewards existing play by merely logging in, in everything from unlocking ls season 2, to dailies, to laurels, to magic find, and achievements.
I think it's a major injustice to sit and say its the same.

Existing players have an advantage, not only in the accumulation and experience of rewards, skins, bags and achievements found in living world season 1 - Content which is unobtainable now, as well as the stuff from season 2 which is now behind a paywall.
It's not a terrible argument, just because people don't necessarily have it. It's a relative argument. Because some people have, and that is part of this discussion.

 

[5il3nc3r]

I heard current players doesn't get a key for GW2 to gift to to other people, is this true?

 

[leng jai]

Already hit 10k AP not even 3 years into the game. Will trade autograph for elder wood.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Adriaa you bastard. im stuck on 9222. What did you do? did you grind gw1?

I heard current players doesn't get a key for GW2 to gift to to other people, is this true?

Maybe this is a good solution that they should consider, but I want to ask you all:

1) If all GW2 players who bought HoT then had this spare key of the base game, is there any chance that this will end up in the hands of gold sellers or people who wish to ruin the game?


2) That people will re-sell their keys, which Anet doesn't want I'm sure. Could they make some sort or referral system?



----

If Anet is really confident in this expansion they might say, that every GW2 player who really wants to spend time on this might want this expansion. But on the other hand, you get a lot of HoTs features by just owning it.

How many of those players will help Anet recoup costs of servers, providing customer support and so on which costs them money, by buying gems?



One of the main points of HoTs fewer number of zones is not to invalidate the base game. They dont want to abandon the existing game because it would suck and kill growth for new players. There is lots of compelling arguments to remain competitive power, gear and gameplay wise in dungeons, wvw and spvp and thus enjoying the end game of the game.

you can even take advantage of some of the guild features, use the new wvw map and the new spvp map. your excuded from maguuma, the mastery system, precursor hunting, the elite specializations, the scribe professions, the revernant and the new personal story, but you still get a hell of a lot stuff. 2000 hours worth of content for me. so far at least.

 

[Morokh]

The game is almost 3 years old. The expansion doesn't have an announcement (release date). You get an opportunity to play now. That is not nothing.
The game rewards existing play by merely logging in, in everything from unlocking ls season 2, to dailies, to laurels, to magic find, and achievements.
I think it's a major injustice to sit and say its the same.

Existing players have an advantage, not only in the accumulation and experience of rewards, skins, bags and achievements found in living world season 1 - Content which is unobtainable now, as well as the stuff from season 2 which is now behind a paywall.
It's not a terrible argument, just because people don't necessarily have it. It's a relative argument. Because some people have, and that is part of this discussion.

Yet all of this has little to do with the actual pricing of the expansion.

The game hasn't shifted to Pay2Win overnight unless I missed something, so of course people will have more things unlocked, but it simply doesn't matter because none of it will prevent a new player to enjoy the game in the same way.

The Season 2 argument is simply irrelevant, because not only the 'get season 2 for free' was an actual time gated promotion, exactly like GW2 for 75% off was, but you don't have to pay actual money to unlock it and certainly not to experience it.

We're then back to the idea of 2 people paying the same thing for content to come and one getting more value out of it which just doesn't work.
It's simple if they had a 45$ upgrade pack and a 50$ ' And get the vanilla game at an unprecedented price' you'd still have people complain about the overall price but we wouldn't have this conversation and you'd certainly have very few people complain about how they favor new players over existing ones.

One of the main points of HoTs fewer number of zones is not to invalidate the base game. They dont want to abandon the existing game because it would suck and kill growth for new players. There is lots of compelling arguments to remain competitive power, gear and gameplay wise in dungeons, wvw and spvp and thus enjoying the end game of the game.

you can even take advantage of some of the guild features, use the new wvw map and the new spvp map. your excuded from maguuma, the mastery system, precursor hunting, the elite specializations, the scribe professions, the revernant and the new personal story, but you still get a hell of a lot stuff. 2000 hours worth of content for me. so far at least.

On the other hand it's also what makes a lot of people weary about the price, because even if they don't pay 50$ it would seem they'll still have access to a lot of the features of this expansion and it makes what's left behind this price look well ... pricey.

The idea of giving a vanilla key to new AND existing players could be a good idea to bring more people to the game actually, but without an simple 'upgrade' option for the expansion it doesn't work well.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Yet all of this has little to do with the actual pricing of the expansion.

The game hasn't shifted to Pay2Win overnight unless I missed something, so of course people will have more things unlocked, but it simply doesn't matter because none of it will prevent a new player to enjoy the game in the same way.

The Season 2 argument is simply irrelevant, because not only the 'get season 2 for free' was an actual time gated promotion, exactly like GW2 for 75% off was, but you don't have to pay actual money to unlock it and certainly not to experience it.

We're then back to the idea of 2 people paying the same thing for content to come and one getting more value out of it which just doesn't work.
It's simple if they had a 45$ upgrade pack and a 50$ ' And get the vanilla game at an unprecedented price' you'd still have people complain about the overall price but we wouldn't have this conversation and you'd certainly have very few people complain about how they favor new players over existing ones.



On the other hand it's also what makes a lot of people weary about the price, because even if they don't pay 50$ it would seem they'll still have access to a lot of the features of this expansion and it makes what's left behind this price look well ... pricey.

The idea of giving a vanilla key to new AND existing players could be a good idea to bring more people to the game actually, but without an simple 'upgrade' option for the expansion it doesn't work well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I won't grill them until I have seen it for myself. The reviews, user reviews and word of mouth will burn them if the game turns out not to be worth 50 USD.




I think you misunderstand what I was trying to do with that list. I am saying that it is a fallacy to act like being a veteran has not yielded in desierable advantages. I don't buy it that you say something is irrelevant because it can be bought with gems or was time gated. The fact is that new players dont have that luxury of getting that, experiencing that content and 3 years of enjoyment like I have.


You seem fixed on the upgrade thing? The upgrade would still be 50 dollars. Like Warlords of Dreanor. Like a Season pass for a modern shooter. They have estimated the value of the expansion, with or without the base game to have that value. When I pay 60 dollars for 7-10 hour third person AA action games, I don't know. I don't know if it will be worth it, but I'll wait with grilling them until I know the value is not in accordance with the price tag.

TB is right. People are so fixated on what new players are getting that it gives way to a toxic mindset. What other people benefit from is not your loss. It's really not. Other people will always scoop a better deal than you. And I just don't buy that level of entitlement for a product without a announced release date, and with so much secrecy. So much of this outrage is based on player driven expectations and notions of what it is and what it isn't.

I'll be frank - I'm concerned too, that the product won't justify the 50 USD pricetag, but it would also surprise me, because all of their other products have been terrific value for their pricetags.

 

[Moondrop]

As it is now, even if the build isn't viable I want to find ways to lower phantasm cooldowns because I can't wait for Alacrity and Chronophantasma.

Hard to beat Signet of the Ether for that.

 

[UltraMav]

I want to complain about the pricing structure, but I've dropped at least thirty bucks on gem store clothing so what do I know about the true value of things?

I will wait for actual release, though.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

People that already own the game don't necessarily have Living Story unlocked, throwing living story in the mix as sort of an 'you played living story for free that's your bonus' argument is, in your own words a 'terrible' one.

50 bucks is the price of the expansion, fine but then for that price everyone should get the same thing, which isn't the case, some get the expansion + a cool bonus, others just get the expansion.
Their offering just isn't fair between new buyers and people that already own the game.

It has nothing to do with any kind of promotion, temporary deal or anything of sorts, two people will buy the exact same things with exactly the same conditions in the exact same timeframe and one will walk home with something more.

It's about what $50 is worth, to both sides. For existing players their $50 is deemed to be worth less than new players, as they actually get less when paying the same amount. It's not about the expansion being $50 for most people, I would think. It's about their $50 not being valued the same as someone else's, especially when they've been loyal fans to the game. That's how I take it anyways. You can argue that my gain is in my years of experience playing the game but, I'll counter argue that my first $50 and $200 of gems should be covering that. Even in WoW, the expansion is $50 but, the base game is not free.

The argument of it being like a game of the year edition doesn't work either , as most people can buy DLC for less than what the base game costs, which means they're discounting the base game in the game of the year edition and not giving it away for free.


Again, though, I'll be buying it. I just think this was done really poorly. Someone didn't think it all through before putting their foot down. The part that really gets me is how they added a new class but, don't give you a character slot for it unless you pay $75 or $100. I don't understand that. I can't even recall the last time I bought an expansion to a class based game and didn't get a slot for my new class. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[Proven]

Hard to beat Signet of the Ether for that.

I'm considering using it, but i currently see it as primarily for a Phantasm build rather than for a Shatter build, and since I'm not as great with Mesmer as I wish I was I'd rather use a heal with higher healing per second. But since they're pushing for us to shatter Phantasms more often whether or not we use Chronomamcy, it might have better synergy than I currently see. I also worry about the fact that the signet doesn't benefit from any of the cooldown traits beyond Blurred Inscriptions.

Edit: With Chronomancy I'm all but certain to switch to Signet of the Ether for this type of build.

Where can I read about what traits are getting put into the mesmer base? It's all a bit confusing

Can't grab the link right now, but you can either check the dulfy links we've posted, Google gw2 forums specializations, or check intothemists.

 

[UltraMav]

I'm actually glad I wasn't given a new character slot, since I bought my own in anticipation for the new class and having a blank extra slot would drive my OCD nuts. Maybe if they sent the equivalent gem cost instead. Cover all the bases.

 

[Retro]

The fact people seem to be missing is that in a post-HoT world, Vanilla Guild Wars 2 is effectively free with the purchase of the expansion. People demanding to be compensated or upset that new players are getting "something extra" don't seem to realize that the dollar value of the base game will be $0 and the only extra anyone is getting is something they've already had for 3 years.

I mean, do people write to Fox demanding compensation because they bought "Aliens" on DVD some years ago for $20, but can find it in the bargain bin at Walmart for $4.99 now? If I buy an appliance and pay extra for the stainless steel finish, if the manufacture decides three years from now to make stainless steel the standard finish for free, should I be compensated?

No, because it's ridiculous and that's not how the world works.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

The fact people seem to be missing is that in a post-HoT world, Vanilla Guild Wars 2 is effectively free with the purchase of the expansion. People demanding to be compensated or upset that new players are getting "something extra" don't seem to realize that the dollar value of the base game will be $0 and the only extra anyone is getting is something they've already had for 3 years.

I mean, do people write to Fox demanding compensation because they bought "Aliens" on DVD some years ago for $20, but can find it in the bargain bin at Walmart for $4.99 now? If I buy an appliance and pay extra for the stainless steel finish, if the manufacture decides three years from now to make stainless steel the standard finish for free, should I be compensated?

No, because it's ridiculous and that's not how the world works.

Does that mean that you can get the base game for free then without the expansion? Say, if I wanted a friend to start playing, they could just jump in with zero cost?

EDIT: I'm just playing devil's advocate here in this. It's not really that big of an issue to me but, I can see why others would be upset. From my view it's always been if something doesn't jive with me I don't buy it and I move on. It's simple for me. And I'm buying the expansion, it's just the $100 or $50 one + some gems. I'm not sure yet which to choose.

 

[Morokh]

The fact people seem to be missing is that in a post-HoT world, Vanilla Guild Wars 2 is effectively free with the purchase of the expansion. People demanding to be compensated or upset that new players are getting "something extra" don't seem to realize that the dollar value of the base game will be $0 and the only extra anyone is getting is something they've already had for 3 years.

I mean, do people write to Fox demanding compensation because they bought "Aliens" on DVD some years ago for $20, but can find it in the bargain bin at Walmart for $4.99 now? If I buy an appliance and pay extra for the stainless steel finish, if the manufacture decides three years from now to make stainless steel the standard finish for free, should I be compensated?

No, because it's ridiculous and that's not how the world works.

Once again such an example is a completely different situation.

In our case you buy the same package at the same time for the same price, and the value for the user isn't the same to the one who buys it.

 

[Retro]

Does that mean that you can get the base game for free then without the expansion? Say, if I wanted a friend to start playing, they could just jump in with zero cost?

Well, I said "free with purchase of the expansion," so in this context I'd have to say no. The game is still B2P and there's still a barrier to entry, they're just making it more convenient and less confusing for new players to dive in (which benefits everyone since more players makes for a stronger community and theoretically more profits from the Gemstore to develop the game with).

For all the cries of anti-consumerism, ArenaNet is basically giving the game away for free when they could require players to buy the base game and the expansion (which is how most MMOs have done it in the past). I can remember a time when you needed to buy Vanilla WoW + TBC + WotLK to play Warcraft, thought I think they may have put Vanilla + TBC into a single, discounted "Battle Chest" SKU in time for Wrath.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

Well, I said "free with purchase of the expansion," so in this context I'd have to say no. The game is still B2P and there's still a barrier to entry, they're just making it more convenient and less confusing for new players to dive in (which benefits everyone since more players makes for a stronger community and theoretically more profits from the Gemstore to develop the game with).

For all the cries of anti-consumerism, ArenaNet is basically giving the game away for free when they could require players to buy the base game and the expansion (which is how most MMOs have done it in the past). I can remember a time when you needed to buy Vanilla WoW + TBC + WotLK to play Warcraft, thought I think they may have put Vanilla + TBC into a single, discounted "Battle Chest" SKU in time for Wrath.

That shows the issue I think people have. $50 != $50 in all cases here. For my $50 I get the expansion, for their $50 they get the expansion plus a game I already paid a lot more for. Even if the base game was $1 and I could buy the expansion for $49 it would make things equal. Things depreciate over time and that's understandable to almost everyone I would hope. This isn't about depreciation though. Right now they're valuing $50 from a new user more than $50 from an existing one by, literally, giving the new user more for the exact same amount of money.

I don't disagree that it helps the player base and it doesn't really bother me but, I can see the issue people are presenting. It has some merit from a mathematical perspective.

 

[Kos Luftar]

ANET can fix this very easily by offering a character a slot with the $50 dollar option if you already own the game.

 

[UltimateIke]

I think the 800 gems suggestion for existing accounts was a pretty good one. Add it to all tiers of preorders. It lets people buy a character slot if they want one at $50, and the people who already paid for the $75/$100 editions don't get something taken away they thought they were required to pay more for.

 

[Disheveled_Zen]

Someone mocked the below up on Reddit, I think this would probably be one of the fairest ways to handle this. Existing players get a free char slot, and the more expensive editions still exist for those that want them.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

ANET can fix this very easily by offering a character a slot with the $50 dollar option if you already own the game.

That would fix it. Anything along those lines really. Some gems, a slot, etc.

 

[Zeroth]

Someone mocked the below up on Reddit, I think this would probably be one of the fairest ways to handle this. Existing players get a free char slot, and the more expensive editions still exist for those that want them.

People bought the $75 tier over the $50 one mainly because it has a character slot. The 800 gem is a more elegant and flexible offer in this sense.

 

[Hawkian]

A condi shatter mesmer??

This is my favorite build on my Mesmer, using Confusion in particular

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I think the 800 gems suggestion for existing accounts was a pretty good one. Add it to all tiers of preorders. It lets people buy a character slot if they want one at $50, and the people who already paid for the $75/$100 editions don't get something taken away they thought they were required to pay more for.

good idea!

 

[Disheveled_Zen]

People bought the $75 tier over the $50 one mainly because it has a character slot. The 800 gem is a more elegant and flexible offer in this sense.

Yea that idea works too. I know everyone in my guild would be fine spending $50, but as all of us have played since beta it kind of rubbed everyone the wrong way that they didn't even offer a new slot for the new class.

 

[swnny]

The most fucked up and ridicules thing about all this is, here (Europe) we get the Standard Edition (Base/Core Game + Expansion) for 45Euro from www.guildwars2.com, but only the upgrade from the ingame store cost us 50Euro. Not sure if its the same the US.

 

[Duress]

50 for an expansion isn't that bad considering that MMO expansions are usually $40, and the monthly $15 subscription. That's $55 bucks in total. I'll need to see more of the game.

 

[Fishious]

I don't really see a problem with the expansion cost. $50 is pretty normal as far as expansions go and it seems like most (reasonable) people seem to agree. The big point of contention seems to be the fact that new players get the base game for free with the expansion while existing players essentially get nothing extra because they already have the base game.

Maybe I've just gotten used to it, but this sort of thing doesn't really bother me. I just see it as a nice bonus for new players and an easy way to get new people into the game since they don't have to buy the base game + expansion to get everything. Everyone's going to value things differently based on which elements are important to them, which other games they use as reference points for value, personal expectations, and their personal budgets.

I was late getting into Guild Wars 1 so I bought boxed copies of Prophecies, Factions, and EOTN for about $10 each. I really enjoyed the game, but I could never find a reasonably priced copy of Nightfall. Eventually I gave in and bought a $15 copy of Trilogy. All this did was give me Nightfall and some little extras. I didn't get extra copies of Prophecies and Factions which I already had. On the one hand you could say I spent $45 total when I could have only spent $25 (Trilogy + EOTN) for the same thing. On the other hand the $45 was easily worth it for the enjoyment and hours of play I got out of the games.

Compared to most non-mmo console and PC games GW2 is a great value for those who enjoy the game. Compared to most MMOs it's still a great value because it doesn't have a subscription fee yet still has had new content and updates throughout its life. Compared to something like TF2 or DOTA it's a terrible value (along with basically every other form of entertainment) because they are free and can be enjoyed for hundreds or thousands of hours. So it all really depends on what you're comparing it to.

I got hundreds of hours out of that $45 purchase and I've gotten over 1,000 hours out of my $60 GW2 purchase. The fact that people have been able to get them game for $30, then $10, and how free with Heart of Thorns doesn't retroactively diminish the enjoyment I've had with the game so it was worth it. I know HoT has many features I want and based on what they have shown I will likely purchase it regardless, though I'm going to wait for more reveals + possible GMG deals and would obviously recommend anyone with any reservations do the same. Even if HoT doesn't contain as much content and I get fewer hours of enjoyment from it than the base game it should still be worth it compared to other comparable games at the same price point.

I will say the fact that so many people would be placated by a free character slot or 800 gems shows that there isn't a huge disparity in value compared to the asking price and it may be worthwhile for Anet to just concede that point and add in some extras to make people happy. Sorry if I got a little rambley there, but I'm trying to articulate a response to a lot of what I've been reading lately.

 

[Moondrop]

The cost of the expansion isn't really $50 for most veteran players. It's $60, otherwise you're missing a large piece of the content. And the gall of this excess fee has many of us sitting on our wallets to see if Anet backs down or if they're happy waiting until right before the expansion to receive our cash.

 

[Taffer]

About the change to spectral walk :

A bit sad but then I never used it for anything other than messing around.
I hope the guildhall instances go all the way down so I can jump off the cliffs and not get kicked for leaving the instance before impact.

 

[Proven]

I think a decent amount of us can agree that $50 is close to the value we're willing to pay for the new expansion. It still feels a little steep considering many of our expectations, which ties back into how we'd like a little bit more value in the form of gems or character slot. Even if it's only for existing players.

I'm currently twisting myself towards buying the $100 package just so I can feel assured I got value for my money. I doubt any blog posts are going to help with this, even if they paraded out the rest of the elite specializations next week. I'm already committed to the expansion, I just don't feel good spending the money at that base price. ANet, please make me feel good about spending money on you.

Edit: In other news, while I see many synergies for current existing and non-existent Guardian playstyles, I don't see enough to make me happy for the sort of long range hybrid style I want. A lot of the traits that'd amplify my damage by a lot are in Zeal and Valor, but the majority of those trait lines don't offer me much synergy. Guardian also isn't as great at Might stacking as I would like/need. And while I can get 25-30% free crit chance against burning foes is good, I'm still going to need a decent amount of Precision from gear and I'm tired of always needing to seek out Rabid.

Then again, the build didn't really come together all that well before either. I probably should just wait for Dragonhunter. I'm in a similar space with my Thief build but if the Sniper rumors are true they likely won't help me at all.

 

[human onion]

Well if we're posting our opinions, I'll say that my problems with this are 1. No character slot as a baseline and 2. I don't think what has been revealed to us so far is worth $50 dollars, especially without a release date.

I don't know how many people have their character slots filled out by now with characters they want to keep, but it is a personal disappointment. The second point is a problem inherent with preordering any game, which is why I never do it. I could complain about how preordering is useless in general, but here it's extra useless for me.

If I want the expansion when it comes out, then I'll get it. I still want to know about the Engie and Ele elite specs in addition to this 'challenging content'. Right now, we can look forward to the specialization update.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Have today's blog posts been cancelled?

 

[Morokh]

Have today's blog posts been cancelled?

Too busy trying to repel the angry mob trying to conquer and claim the Studio as their guild hall !

 

[Ashodin]

Have today's blog posts been cancelled?

3 pm buddy.

Also, I'm doing a GAF interview with Colin Johanson, asking him questions about Heart of Thorns. If you have any questions you'd like to ask (serious questions only) reply to this thread and I'll include the ones I think best likely to get a response. I've already for several questions lined up for him, and the answers I'll release here (which will inevitably end up on Reddit).

 

[NormalFish]

3 pm buddy.

Also, I'm doing a GAF interview with Colin Johanson, asking him questions about Heart of Thorns. If you have any questions you'd like to ask (serious questions only) reply to this thread and I'll include the ones I think best likely to get a response. I've already for several questions lined up for him, and the answers I'll release here (which will inevitably end up on Reddit).

Could ask him a bit about post-release content for heart of thorns. Whether they intend to release further guildhall/specialization/weapon choices after the initial release.

 

[SourBear]

If they had included a character slot as baseline I think a lot of complaints would have been avoided. In fact, it is nuts to me that a character slot wasn't included as baseline. I can't think of a single game where an expansion (which had limited character slots) didn't have that as part of upgrade.