Needs LOTS of work but it does look good.
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Halo 5 Forge |OT| Plan, Build, Share
- Thread starter Karl2177
- Start date
Needs LOTS of work but it does look good.
Gabotron ES
Member
How did you make the skull decal black in Deadlock NOKYARD?
Turned it 180 degrees.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Will a Pelican suffice?
Gabotron ES
Member
lol nice
I tried it but it doesn't fit. Right now I've got something with cars on vehicle pads but it still seems to miss the original intent of the Sabre.
What is your object budget for this? This is 48 objects, but you can use less or more drop pods, you can ignore the side beams, etc. The one in the picture is 1x(Beam8x32x8), 2x(Beam9x9x8; Corner), 8x(Invisible blocker1x16x32), 10x(Strut; detailed;double;48x1x8), 27x(Drop pod;UNSC;Closed). I also have a comparison to a Pelican and a 32x32 block.
I've got 200+ objects to work with.
nillapuddin
Member
That and I've still got the circular staircase to work on and a few holes to plug but it's pretty much done.
Gabotron ES
Member
nillapuddin
Member
sweet!
dont tell nokyard, but when I was helping him, I hid a talking prophet on every level, first one to find them all gets an xbox gift card!!
edit:
GOD DAMNIT RECURVE. WHY WONT YOU DIE. DIE. DIE.
Also, so help me god if the updated versions of Guillotine and Deadlock are not in this map pool, I will set ablaze absolutely nothing, but I will complain about it on the internet
dont tell nokyard, but when I was helping him, I hid a talking prophet on every level, first one to find them all gets an xbox gift card!!
i did not do that, but plz do wander the courts aimlessly so I can kill you
edit:
GOD DAMNIT RECURVE. WHY WONT YOU DIE. DIE. DIE.
Also, so help me god if the updated versions of Guillotine and Deadlock are not in this map pool, I will set ablaze absolutely nothing, but I will complain about it on the internet
nillapuddin
Member
Updated Deadlock is in
got absolutely fucking wrecked, as Blue team, never once spawned outside of our base, and Red team completely trapped us the entire game 100%. 100-60
sidenote: the players on open mic loved the improved aesthetics though
got absolutely fucking wrecked, as Blue team, never once spawned outside of our base, and Red team completely trapped us the entire game 100%. 100-60
sidenote: the players on open mic loved the improved aesthetics though
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
This seems detrimental to CTF though.
nillapuddin
Member
le sigh
I just fast forward through the film real quick with player outlines on, and yeah maybe 3-4 times a player slipped past midfield on a ghost or something, but other than that we were trapped
I never solo que, but just wanted a taste of the action, and it was brutal. For all I know we were a bunch of nubs and they were a team or they were just that much better than us.
Not going to let one game dictate my opinion on the map
I just fast forward through the film real quick with player outlines on, and yeah maybe 3-4 times a player slipped past midfield on a ghost or something, but other than that we were trapped
I never solo que, but just wanted a taste of the action, and it was brutal. For all I know we were a bunch of nubs and they were a team or they were just that much better than us.
Not going to let one game dictate my opinion on the map
Fata1moose
Banned
Recurve is okay, need to fix the sun though. Antifreeze is the map that needs to die a horrible death.
Getting trapped in your base is a classic feature of Standoff, never liked the map much, though everything suffered in the Halo 3 sandbox.
Gabotron ES
Member
Recurve is baaad
It's something I've noticed in all my matches on my own Forge maps. There are some respawn points that the game says, "You are going to spawn here 5 times in a row." IMO they need to redo the entire spawn system.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I'll take it compared to Settler.
nillapuddin
Member
Kick ass, the whole week went by and I didn't help you at all, my bad dude.
I thought I'd have so much time in-between projects, but somehow I'm still busy
I'm sorry nok, I know it's your baby, and you know that I respect your craft. I hope to have much better games on it in the future
I had this one spawn on my
decent
The super shitty thing is that you can't actually save those films, so you're forced to play 1 match and get as much analysis as possible from that one game. I have a map from Reach that I plan to remake and I was actually watching a saved film from my playtest sessions back in February 2011. Halo 5 can't handle films from 2 months ago.
The Real Napsta
Member
Oh do the updates break saved films?
Diablohead
Member
It is.
Yea. If it's more than 2 updates old, it just says that it can't load the file.
Gabotron ES
Member
After the ammount of QUALITY maps they just added plus the updates, playing on Recurve is trully a shitty experience!
QUESTION! What happened with the Terminal remake (Deadline/Station 7)? They looked soo good! the train was a rad detail
They didn't go for it because there aren't any one-sided gametypes in Halo 5.
We REALLY tried but it played like crap no matter where the Strongholds were placed. Certainly not the map/builder's fault, just the nature of H5 symm game types.
Diablohead
Member
StalkerUKCG
Banned
One of the vehicles maybe? Hog?
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Pretty terrible video all around. People have always cried about how "corrupt" the cartographes are and how "biased" their views are, but in the end the map selection has have fine for basically every game. The supposed secrecy of them is also something that probably has more to do 343 than anything. Plans change so why announce anything when it's not a 100% certain it will happen? Just make maps you want to create instead of waiting for them to announce they want certain maps for matchmaking.
Lastly, having the community determine what maps get put in matchmaking is a terrible idea. I'd rather have a small group of people who know what they're doing pick them than have a large group of people who put no time into looking at the maps decide. That's a recipe for disaster.
I don't think that's suitable, because I need length and heighth. Need something to lean on walls or place on top of them. However, I will try that at first.
As an ex-Community Cartographer, this video and the post it links get it very wrong.
edit
video points:
"Community Cartographers are corrupt"
slow down there occupy halo. You think CCs are corrupt? nah. They're testers Microsoft doesn't have to pay.
"I only see Cartographers in parties together"
This is because 1) Cartographers need to be able to talk to each other openly about the map and not have people spread out of context quotes to the rest of the community and 2) people rarely ever show up to test their maps when test nights were held (and tbh i didn't expect people to be able to show up for their map to get tested). It's much easier to coordinate test nights when you all have direct communications. Also due to FL limitations I often ended up drafting HBO and Penny Arcade Forum players sight unseen.
"Community Cartographers shouldn't have any choice in what maps they test"
They have lives and limited time, there is no way that being forced to test every map that comes out of the firehose is ever workable or sane.
"They shouldn't get to choose the maps"
CCs never had sole control over what maps go in or come back out, ever, and as far as I can tell, they still don't. They are one source of many.
"People should be able to openly submit their maps on a page on 343's website"
You pretty much were always able to and still can, as far as I know. If you mean a webform gets put up and every map going into it gets tested, then no, that's not workable. Every single content+test platform puts up a little filter or wall somewhere to make it even workable. Since it would be wrong to make people pay for submissions (AppStore, Google Play) or sign a contract (console games). An open "drop map here for testing" would end up with maps buried and complete unworkable pipeline. As far as I know from back then and still now, if you post a map practically anywhere, a CC or 343 employee will see it. Even the tiny hurdle that imposed is enough to keep submissions serious.
Even if a CC submitted a map, there was zero. guarantee. it would be accepted. Hell, we had maps that we pulled off Forgehub or HBO or reddit or blueprint, tested, reviewed great, submitted to 343 and the map was killed in 343 test in the midnight hour to never be seen again. If you want to know a reason why CCs don't log every little step of the process, it's because they cannot guarantee a single thing. They are not paid employees and Bungie/343 always had absolute final say even in the final phases. And a lot of people don't understand how late in the process content can get cut, so it was better to not make that process public as people take it way too personally.
"People should be able to vote on maps and CCs don't get to choose what goes into phase 2"
So your imagined cartel of Big Cartographer no longer gets to choose maps, so you switch it with a group designed to avoid communities being the sole gatekeeper to whomever can brigade the most votes. Awesome. So whoever can yell the loudest will be the only ones that can get maps in. And it's pretty thinly veiled which community will then assume direct control.
post responses
There have always been CCs in the program since Day 1 that didn't forge seriously or forge at all, and no, fated didn't get in for asterisking someone harder than anyone else. See, not only was the point to get people from multiple communites to make sure not a single one was a sole gatekeeper, it also helped to have people who had different levels of skill and areas of interest in the game. You have to diversify on both the vertical and the horizontal axis of the graph.
Yeah, look at all those CCs that have jobs at Microsoft now and th- oh. wait. lolololol
Maps can and were not considered or even removed from matchmaking because the map creator was an asshole to other forgers, posted death threats, or turned out to be a supremacist in one case. If a CC had a solely personal issue with a Forger then a map would just be handled by someone else. But we also knew that having a map in matchmaking was an implicit endorsement of that person so we tried to not give assholes a microphone. It doesn't matter if you can remake Blood Gulch 1:1 with 2 Brace Longs and an overshield powerup, if you spew bile and hate and attack other people you're not going to be given the platform of having your map in matchmaking.
Y'all want transparancy? Here's a list of Reach era MM tests:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO4EBSvjBEosa0HVjJAIQbFgZcj8oSXLO
Also, often CCs weren't even allowed to publically announce a task or a playlist content gathering sweep, so we had to basically get the content together in quasi-secret for 343, which was a whole load of fun in itself.
Not every content collection directive resulted in the playlist even happening, either. And sometimes you would all find out at the same time as us that a playlist was being made and content collected for it in the Halo Bulletin.
Either way, the CCs don't even have close the power people think they do
There have always been CCs in the program since Day 1 that didn't forge seriously or forge at all, and no, fated didn't get in for asterisking someone harder than anyone else. See, not only was the point to get people from multiple communites to make sure not a single one was a sole gatekeeper, it also helped to have people who had different levels of skill and areas of interest in the game. You have to diversify on both the vertical and the horizontal axis of the graph.
Yeah, look at all those CCs that have jobs at Microsoft now and th- oh. wait. lolololol
Maps can and were not considered or even removed from matchmaking because the map creator was an asshole to other forgers, posted death threats, or turned out to be a supremacist in one case. If a CC had a solely personal issue with a Forger then a map would just be handled by someone else. But we also knew that having a map in matchmaking was an implicit endorsement of that person so we tried to not give assholes a microphone. It doesn't matter if you can remake Blood Gulch 1:1 with 2 Brace Longs and an overshield powerup, if you spew bile and hate and attack other people you're not going to be given the platform of having your map in matchmaking.
Y'all want transparancy? Here's a list of Reach era MM tests:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO4EBSvjBEosa0HVjJAIQbFgZcj8oSXLO
Also, often CCs weren't even allowed to publically announce a task or a playlist content gathering sweep, so we had to basically get the content together in quasi-secret for 343, which was a whole load of fun in itself.
Not every content collection directive resulted in the playlist even happening, either. And sometimes you would all find out at the same time as us that a playlist was being made and content collected for it in the Halo Bulletin.
Either way, the CCs don't even have close the power people think they do
A submission system really isn't needed in my opinion because it's just going to be plagued by poor quality maps that were built by average joes who don't really know what they're doing. It just wastes the CC's time having to filter through it all. I've had first-hand experience with this through remakes testing, and it's a chore to handle even with my much smaller sample size. All that's needed is to keep an eye on what maps are funneling towards the top of various forge communities (reddit, forgehub, grifballhub, etc.), test them out, and then pass on the ones that have potential to 343 for further testing. I think that this is the process they already have, but I don't know for sure because the real problem is a lack of communication about it.
Some CCs do a great job of answering questions, and being active in their respective communities, but what we really need is some more official communication that the CCs do as a group instead of relying on the individual efforts of a few members to keep the public in touch. Something like a weekly or monthly CC update (video, forum post, whatever) that lets the public know what maps are being tested or what playlists are accepting maps could go a long way towards keeping us in the loop. A one-stop place for information like this is much better than digging through post histories of each CC member across different sites. However, I don't know how open 343 allows the CCs to be about these things.
A complete overhaul of the system like some angry forgers out there are wanting would do more harm than good in my opinion.
Some CCs do a great job of answering questions, and being active in their respective communities, but what we really need is some more official communication that the CCs do as a group instead of relying on the individual efforts of a few members to keep the public in touch. Something like a weekly or monthly CC update (video, forum post, whatever) that lets the public know what maps are being tested or what playlists are accepting maps could go a long way towards keeping us in the loop. A one-stop place for information like this is much better than digging through post histories of each CC member across different sites. However, I don't know how open 343 allows the CCs to be about these things.
A complete overhaul of the system like some angry forgers out there are wanting would do more harm than good in my opinion.
nillapuddin
Member
First of all, #NOKGOD
Secondly, like JD said we were in the trenches big time back in the day, and even in just one category its an ass load of work.
I served as "the filter", meaning I would web crawl all the time finding maps, friending creators, helping ones with potential improve and proliferating the cream of the crop, and it was god damn exhausting.
If I wasn't in college at the time, with long distance SO and no family around, I couldn't have done it.
(most cc are past that now!)
The benefit that JD and I had was, we created basically an entire wing of government, we had teams in charge if specific games, avenues to root out bias, and voted as a collective on alot. We're talking 7-8 dedicated VOLUNTEERS.
That's just guys "in positions of office", and even more really awesome guys who just helped out. Although we did have a lot of public communication, we had to start our own private group to discuss maps, and had plenty of invite only game sessions.
They are trying to establish the same quality, look through 50x more maps than ever before, find maps of every genre! and do it quickly.
I understand why CC as a program cannot be forthcoming all the time, players are very protective over their work and whenever (god for-fucking-bid) you have to establish certain maps are "better" than others, you will always be pissing off someone's fan club.
I understand the need to be in private talks, I understand closed door testing, I can even understand where a little bit of back talk comes from, it's very frustrating when you put a ton of work into a map group and then it's instantly criticized.
I do wish the roles, objectives and identities were more pronounced. Even knowing what CC is, is a very 10% type thing anyways. Average players have no idea where the maps come from or how they get there. So if letting the subsection of the community that is interested, know what's going on, would be nice.
But honestly, at its core, I dont see what they could be doing differently (
). Follow leads on popular maps via all the ways maps are published (the internet), compile lists, then test. Work with creators to improve maps on feedback, test, narrow it down over time. What else can you ask for?
(this is assuming they all work with due diligence)
The only room for error there, is if the testing pool is being limited, or tipped in a certain direction by bias, which I really don't know how to get around.
This collection of people put in a lot of work for no pay, that basically only comes with criticism, not easy.
I've had a few personal relationships with cc members over the years, none of whom are being criticized ATM, and I've always known them to do their best for the community.
I know Nok for example did an exemplary job getting this grifball update put on a tee, and he won't get a ton of recognition for it, most players won't know his name, but he is very much deserving of praise.
It's a very demanding role, and I 100% believe it needs to exist, as a whole it is a great benefit that may or may not be let down by individuals on occasion.
I'm super tired so idk if my post made any sense, I drove 6 hours tonight back from visiting family, so my brain is kinda mushy. I really do like a discussion about it though, because we have a huge variance of forger here in terms of, distance to inner circle, time forging, connections to groups, etc.
Secondly, like JD said we were in the trenches big time back in the day, and even in just one category its an ass load of work.
I served as "the filter", meaning I would web crawl all the time finding maps, friending creators, helping ones with potential improve and proliferating the cream of the crop, and it was god damn exhausting.
If I wasn't in college at the time, with long distance SO and no family around, I couldn't have done it.
(most cc are past that now!)
The benefit that JD and I had was, we created basically an entire wing of government, we had teams in charge if specific games, avenues to root out bias, and voted as a collective on alot. We're talking 7-8 dedicated VOLUNTEERS.
That's just guys "in positions of office", and even more really awesome guys who just helped out. Although we did have a lot of public communication, we had to start our own private group to discuss maps, and had plenty of invite only game sessions.
They are trying to establish the same quality, look through 50x more maps than ever before, find maps of every genre! and do it quickly.
I understand why CC as a program cannot be forthcoming all the time, players are very protective over their work and whenever (god for-fucking-bid) you have to establish certain maps are "better" than others, you will always be pissing off someone's fan club.
I understand the need to be in private talks, I understand closed door testing, I can even understand where a little bit of back talk comes from, it's very frustrating when you put a ton of work into a map group and then it's instantly criticized.
I do wish the roles, objectives and identities were more pronounced. Even knowing what CC is, is a very 10% type thing anyways. Average players have no idea where the maps come from or how they get there. So if letting the subsection of the community that is interested, know what's going on, would be nice.
Blueprint fo lyfe
But honestly, at its core, I dont see what they could be doing differently (
aside from personnel
(this is assuming they all work with due diligence)
The only room for error there, is if the testing pool is being limited, or tipped in a certain direction by bias, which I really don't know how to get around.
This collection of people put in a lot of work for no pay, that basically only comes with criticism, not easy.
I've had a few personal relationships with cc members over the years, none of whom are being criticized ATM, and I've always known them to do their best for the community.
I know Nok for example did an exemplary job getting this grifball update put on a tee, and he won't get a ton of recognition for it, most players won't know his name, but he is very much deserving of praise.
It's a very demanding role, and I 100% believe it needs to exist, as a whole it is a great benefit that may or may not be let down by individuals on occasion.
I'm super tired so idk if my post made any sense, I drove 6 hours tonight back from visiting family, so my brain is kinda mushy. I really do like a discussion about it though, because we have a huge variance of forger here in terms of, distance to inner circle, time forging, connections to groups, etc.
The CC system has been under review since we requested it at 343i in September, and the sustain team has been formulating a complete overhaul. Unfortunately, this long thought out process will seem like a knee-jerk reaction in response to this fiasco. Once the pitchforks are out nothing the CCs and 343 do will be enough quiet the critics enough to let us do our jobs in peace.
nillapuddin
Member
Well, good for yall in opening up to make a change. Sorry you gotta deal with all this crap
I didn't watch the video, just read that one guys post on forgehub, which was really personal
They're right. The problem is clearly with the people who effectively act as unpaid QA/Content creators for 343i that oversee no actual system that is capable of change on any actual level.
It's not that 343i has decided to essentially outsource their QA to the community, which is vast and variable, and potentially unable to give quality feedback or create quality content. That's totally not what the problem is.
That's totally not how you get Antifreeze.
As someone who has done a shitload of play testing on various tabletop and board game projects I wonder how many of those play testing skills relate to video games and such. Is it significantly harder to articulate design nuance in a digital context?
It's not that 343i has decided to essentially outsource their QA to the community, which is vast and variable, and potentially unable to give quality feedback or create quality content. That's totally not what the problem is.
That's totally not how you get Antifreeze.
As someone who has done a shitload of play testing on various tabletop and board game projects I wonder how many of those play testing skills relate to video games and such. Is it significantly harder to articulate design nuance in a digital context?