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[kittens]

I'd be pissed if Cortana died, especially if it was just because of rampancy. Chief and Cortana got literally swallowed by Forerunner technology. Finding a way to extend Cortana's life should be a piece of cake. It wouldn't be a cop out. Cortana is one of Halo's most interesting characters, and I'd be so disappointed if she wasn't there for the ride on this new saga.

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Edit : You want to see Chief struggle with his emotions? Then let him actually HAVE emotions. Killing Cortana would be killing Chief's biggest connect to his emotions. If Cortana died, it's not like we would see Chief shed a tear, or hear him monologue about his loss. Cortana is essential to digging into Chief's psyche and enabling him to relate emotionally. I have no idea if I'm making any sense. I'm not a writer, lol, but I definitely feel strongly about how this should/shouldn't play out.

 

[The P of Poland]

I'd be pissed if Cortana died, especially if it was just because of rampancy. Chief and Cortana got literally swallowed by Forerunner technology. Finding a way to extend Cortana's life should be a piece of cake. It wouldn't be a cop out. Cortana is one of Halo's most interesting characters, and I'd be so disappointed if she wasn't there for the ride on this new saga.

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Edit : You want to see Chief struggle with his emotions? Then let him actually HAVE emotions. Killing Cortana would be killing Chief's biggest connect to his emotions. If Cortana died, it's not like we would see Chief shed a tear, or hear him monologue about his loss. Cortana is essential to digging into Chief's psyche and enabling him to relate emotionally.

What if Blue Team, Kelly in particular, were brought back coinciding with Cortana's death? How would that look? How would their relationship be affected?

 

[Homeboyd]

Oh Romo.

Give me some Halo 4 plz.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I'd be pissed if Cortana died, especially if it was just because of rampancy. Chief and Cortana got literally swallowed by Forerunner technology. Finding a way to extend Cortana's life should be a piece of cake. It wouldn't be a cop out. Cortana is one of Halo's most interesting characters, and I'd be so disappointed if she wasn't there for the ride on this new saga.

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Edit : You want to see Chief struggle with his emotions? Then let him actually HAVE emotions. Killing Cortana would be killing Chief's biggest connect to his emotions. If Cortana died, it's not like we would see Chief shed a tear, or hear him monologue about his loss. Cortana is essential to digging into Chief's psyche and enabling him to relate emotionally. I have no idea if I'm making any sense. I'm not a writer, lol, but I definitely feel strongly about how this should/shouldn't play out.

Brilliant post on so many levels.

 

[HiredN00bs]

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Hire Kittens.

Oh Romo.

Immediately after you posted this he threw a touchdown pass--to the Giants.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Sitting in bed with a hot water bottle and a large glass of Hennessy while reading The Thursday War made for a great night last night.

Well done to Traviss, feels like a much more enjoyable read than Glasslands was.

Spoiler

It still has a few issues, and I think it would have been better served being out before E3, but I'd like to write up my thoughts properly tomorrow.

 

[Tashi]

Oh Romo.

Give me some Halo 4 plz.

You down wit JPP? YEA YOU KNOW ME!!

#GMEN

 

[Ken]

Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do.

Halo 5: An Ancient Evil Brews

 

[Buddermilk]

Did anyone else notice Cortana saying something along the lines of "if I die I'm taking chief with me" in the intro to FUD ep.3 last week?
I thought that was an interesting look into her depths of her rampancy, and could b an inkling as to how she behaves.

 

[Zoolader]

I'd be pissed if Cortana died, especially if it was just because of rampancy. Chief and Cortana got literally swallowed by Forerunner technology. Finding a way to extend Cortana's life should be a piece of cake. It wouldn't be a cop out. Cortana is one of Halo's most interesting characters, and I'd be so disappointed if she wasn't there for the ride on this new saga.

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Edit : You want to see Chief struggle with his emotions? Then let him actually HAVE emotions. Killing Cortana would be killing Chief's biggest connect to his emotions. If Cortana died, it's not like we would see Chief shed a tear, or hear him monologue about his loss. Cortana is essential to digging into Chief's psyche and enabling him to relate emotionally. I have no idea if I'm making any sense. I'm not a writer, lol, but I definitely feel strongly about how this should/shouldn't play out.

I don't know what the fuck this is, but if Cortana dies in Halo 4 you are now in trouble.

 

[Homeboyd]

Immediately after you posted this he threw a touchdown pass--to the Giants.

lol yeah.. I just...

 

[Sanjuro]

This is it, baby. Hold me.

 

[op_ivy]

cortana is the ancient evil awakened. gravemind 2.0.

 

[RebornYeti]

coranta cant die guys

 

[neoism]

cortana is the ancient evil awakened. gravemind 2.0.

I hope not...:/

 

[BackdoorBeauty]

I don't think I've seen anyone discuss the health mechanic, but you can see it from the videos. It works like this:

As soon as your shields start to regenerate, you're back at 100% health. There is no carryover health damage. Once your shield hits 1% on regen, even if you took "body" damage previously, 100% health. Shields take 5 seconds to start regenerating, and 2 seconds to fully recharge from no-shields.

 

[IHaveIce]

cortana is the ancient evil awakened. gravemind 2.0.

I want the Gravemind back

 

[exYle]

I'd be pissed if Cortana died, especially if it was just because of rampancy. Chief and Cortana got literally swallowed by Forerunner technology. Finding a way to extend Cortana's life should be a piece of cake. It wouldn't be a cop out. Cortana is one of Halo's most interesting characters, and I'd be so disappointed if she wasn't there for the ride on this new saga.

And killing Cortana off merely to see how Chief deals with it would be pretty shallow, in my opinon. There are far more interesting ways to examine their relationship and Chief's own emotions. Killing Cortana off just to see Chief be sad is such a typical narrative. Strong, stoic male loses the person he was closest to, and has to deal with his feelings quietly and by himself because that's what men do. It's been done a million times over, and it would be absolutely counter to 343's goals of giving Chief humanity.

Edit : You want to see Chief struggle with his emotions? Then let him actually HAVE emotions. Killing Cortana would be killing Chief's biggest connect to his emotions. If Cortana died, it's not like we would see Chief shed a tear, or hear him monologue about his loss. Cortana is essential to digging into Chief's psyche and enabling him to relate emotionally. I have no idea if I'm making any sense. I'm not a writer, lol, but I definitely feel strongly about how this should/shouldn't play out.

 

[op_ivy]

I want the Gravemind back

me too. such an interesting character. also, still dissapointed at his nearly no show in halo 3. really hope we arent done with gravemind AND the flood.

 

[Tunavi]

me too. such an interesting character. also, still dissapointed at his nearly no show in halo 3. really hope we arent done with gravemind AND the flood.

you're in the minority here.

 

[op_ivy]

you're in the minority here.

well fuck.

also, this is halogaf - i often feel in the minority.

 

[heckfu]

you're in the minority here.

What do YOU know about minorities?

 

[Portugeezer]

Hey guys, I hadn't turned on my Xbox for a few months, in anticipation to Halo 4 I thought I'd turn it on, make sure disc drive is working and all, get the recent update.

It started the update, downloaded fine, but then it froze right at the end of the part where it says "applying update. Do not turn off or unplug your console.", has this happened before? I am pretty sure it's frozen, nothing it happening, not even the little circle moving.

It has been about 15 minutes, should I turn off?

Ok so it looks like no Halo 4 multiplayer for me (and Halo 4 in general if that is the case, I will cancel preorder in the next few days). The problem still persists, I went onto Xbox Support Chat, turning off didn't brick console, long story short in the end they asked me to send in console for bargain price of $100!... there is nothing wrong with my console, everything is fine only thing not fine is the update.

Very disappointing. By far the shittest piece of console hardware ever (2nd Xbox).

Can't process update 3CD6 - 3F45 - 1380 - 2446 - C000 - 0185, shit just downloads the update and doesn't even try applying now, that's what I get.

I search online all I see is stuff about modded consoles, my console aint modded, only thing I can think of is maybe my power supply is from my old 360, maybe... but that has never been a problem updating.

 

[Rand0m TAG]

Sitting in bed with a hot water bottle and a large glass of Hennessy while reading The Thursday War made for a great night last night.

Well done to Traviss, feels like a much more enjoyable read than Glasslands was.

Spoiler

It still has a few issues, and I think it would have been better served being out before E3, but I'd like to write up my thoughts properly tomorrow.

dont get me started. according to her, halsey is the great evil. and humans seem like bitches ... wonder if chief would side with halsey or oni after what has happened
i did enjoy the parts about Jul though.

i also want the flood back. felt annoyed how the gravemind didnt feel like a big threat in halo 3

 

[Zeouterlimits]

me too. such an interesting character. also, still dissapointed at his nearly no show in halo 3. really hope we arent done with gravemind AND the flood.

Agreed, completely.
Gravemind's lack of involvement & Cortana's "I'm suddenly fine" were the two biggest plot point disappointments for me.

 

[GodfatherX]

want Halo to have nothing to do with gravemind going forward, not even via a reflection conversation

 

[op_ivy]

see, i didnt see much wrong with glasslands either. the halsey suff has been completely overblown. representin' gaf minority

 

[IHaveIce]

me too. such an interesting character. also, still dissapointed at his nearly no show in halo 3. really hope we arent done with gravemind AND the flood.

I agree, maybe the Flood levels were kind of annoying but I like the Gravemind and Flood from a canonical point of view

you're in the minority here.

 

[Akai__]

Ok so it looks like no Halo 4 multiplayer for me (and Halo 4 in general if that is the case, I will cancel preorder in the next few days). The problem still persists, I went onto Xbox Support Chat, turning off didn't brick console, long story short in the end they asked me to send in console for bargain price of $100!... there is nothing wrong with my console, everything is fine only thing not fine is the update.

Very disappointing. By far the shittest piece of console hardware ever (2nd Xbox).

Can't process update 3CD6 - 3F45 - 1380 - 2446 - C000 - 0185, shit just downloads the update and doesn't even try applying now, that's what I get.

I search online all I see is stuff about modded consoles, my console aint modded, only thing I can think of is maybe my power supply is from my old 360, maybe... but that has never been a problem updating.

Do you have still a warranty, from where you bought your Xbox 360?

 

[Orochinagis]

me too. such an interesting character. also, still dissapointed at his nearly no show in halo 3. really hope we arent done with gravemind AND the flood.

I wanted to know more about in the game, not in the novels =/

 

[ViewtifulJC]

FUCK YOU TONY ROMO

that is all

Halo

 

[op_ivy]

Agreed, completely.
Gravemind's lack of involvement & Cortana's "I'm suddenly fine" were the two biggest plot point disappointments for me.

yeah. the flood was such a bif part of thee first trilogy and they just sweeped gravemind under the rug in 3. maybe they couldnt get the tech to make his appearence work, i dunno.

i cant imagine the flood is done, so hopefully we'll see epic next gen gravemind. also, the flood should be fully realized as doom-ish cannon fodder. would love more three+ way battles with mad flood rushes, especially if the power of next-gen allows for giant "waves" of flood. a reimagined dark labyrinth level ala the library (without the repetitive-ness) would be so cool.

 

[Portugeezer]

Do you have still a warranty, from where you bought your Xbox 360?

No warranty from anyone, got it a while back. So I am screwed if I can't update.

 

[Rand0m TAG]

yeah. the flood was such a bif part of thee first trilogy and they just sweeped gravemind under the rug in 3. maybe they couldnt get the tech to make his appearence work, i dunno.

i cant imagine the flood is done, so hopefully we'll see epic next gen gravemind. also, the flood should be fully realized as doom-ish cannon fodder. would love more three+ way battles with mad flood rushes, especially if the power of next-gen allows for giant "waves" of flood.

4 way with forerunners.

 

[Noricart]

-New trilogy story-

I think I only laughed so hard at that because of playing mass effect recently.
Edit: don't the Cowboys usually sleep for most the first half anyway

 

[Toddler]

Had to order the headset.... but got this while I was there:


New Weapon by xTODDLERx, on Flickr

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

see, i didnt see much wrong with glasslands either. the halsey suff has been completely overblown. representin' gaf minority

I agree completely.

The only thing I disliked about TTW is that all of the Spartans were largely ignored, aside from the two in Kilo 5. They were such central characters in Glasslands, I figured they'd return. Oh well. Hopefully they show up in Halo 4. Or another set of books is announced.


I'd guess that they announce something after Bear's trilogy completes in a few months.

 

[op_ivy]

4 way with forerunners.

absolutely. then, teaming up with forerunners and covenant against the flood.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

yeah. the flood was such a bif part of thee first trilogy and they just sweeped gravemind under the rug in 3. maybe they couldnt get the tech to make his appearence work, i dunno.

i cant imagine the flood is done, so hopefully we'll see epic next gen gravemind. also, the flood should be fully realized as doom-ish cannon fodder. would love more three+ way battles with mad flood rushes, especially if the power of next-gen allows for giant "waves" of flood. a reimagined dark labyrinth level ala the library (without the repetitive-ness) would be so cool.

The Flood will make a return and the cure that the humans almost discovered long ago will be acknowledged in the game - The Precursors will somehow show up, unleashing the Flood once again as all parties (humans, Forerunners, Covenant) unite to have a chance against such overwhelming odds.

Just a little over a week before I can step out of these shadows of Halo 4's Campaign and Spartan Ops. So excited to see where 343's taking this franchise B]

 

[DeadNames]

Anyone else think blue proms > orange proms?

And why are they portal colors? Are proms actually test subjects of Aperture Science?

 

[Orochinagis]

Anyone else think blue proms > orange proms?

And why are they portal colors? Are proms actually test subjects of Aperture Science?

blue = good, sense of calm
Orange= baaaaaaaaad, explosive diarrea

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Today I've put another solid four hours or so into the multiplayer, and I feel I can better go over what I like, and what I don't like so much.

First off, let me say that my impressions are 95% involved with Team Slayer - as there are only about 50 people on, and that's where most are playing. I was lucky to get in a a couple Dominion games - a gametype I expect to enjoy the most, right after CTF - but we got DOMINATED twice and so I quit once we were back in the lobby.

I gotta touch on the graphics again - this really runs so much smoother than Reach, and the image quality is just much better. Less jaggies, a bit better textures, significantly better lighting, and what "feels" like a wider FoV, but I can't say for sure. Either way, as a PC gamer who loves his 60+ fps at 1920x1200 with 16x AA, this isn't the massive disappointment that H3 and HR were. I'm not comparing it to PC games - just saying it's a darn nice looker for the 360.

Maps all seem to have a natural "flow", from what I can tell. The chokepoints seem to be the same in just about every match - which I actually like, as it means they're well thought-out. And furthermore, it doesn't grow boring, because those choke points usually have a couple paths to reach. So, for example, one particular smaller map has a "high ground" in the middle, above a connection of four hallways below. But the top can jump down, or go down two sets of stairs, or jump over, or use a lift to reach the high ground and then jump down. Basically, you have to expect that someone can always be right around the corner. But, unlike BF3 and its tendency to piss me off because I'm ALWAYS getting shot by someone behind me that I don't see; in H4, somehow it seems at least a majority of the encounters begin with each player seeing each other. It's very nice.

Another big thing I'm liking, is the variety of the maps. They all have clear points of interest, and so even in very plain and symmetrical maps, I rarely find myself going backwards or disoriented. And this is after just a few games. I'm sure it'll get even better with time. This is a massive improvement over Reach, where I felt like I was going in circles and completely lost a lot of the time.

The guns all have a lot of power. I've yet to feel like I'm underpowered with any weapon. Even when someone has a sword or a rocket launcher, I think I'm doing okay most the time. Again, another improvement. That said, the Scattershot is kinda iffy, for me. I feel like that weapon is 50% spray and pray - Even when I get kills, I sometimes feel I don't deserve them. And other times, I get a bit irritated when five shots don't seem to do anything. Maybe I just need more time with it.

In Slayer, most the games are pretty evenly matched. But with that said, I like that it's still possible to come back from a large gap between you and first place. The odds can always be in your favor through some skillful plays.

All this said, I'm more excited for vehicles, bigger maps, and objectives. Slayer isn't really my thing, so I look forward to more people getting on.

What don't I like?

Nothing too terribly awful is bugging me. But I stick with what I said earlier - everything moves at a significantly faster pace than before. That's not bad - especially in Slayer. It actually feels like a lot of fun. But it really does worry me about those Objective games. I like the slow and methodical pace of past titles - I don't want that lost.

Also, the stupid shield. I hate that thing. It's like Armor lock.... It's just a "wait to die" kind of ability.

And lastly, grenades seem "different." I can't put my finger on it... But it's like they don't quite do the damage of before... or maybe the radius is smaller.... or something? But they're still effective quite a bit. Sounds like a good thing, right? Yeah, but for some reason they're not "clicking" for me, and I don't know why.

 

[Woorloog]

I want to fight against the Flood in the future as well. Make it Humans vs the Storm vs the Prometheans vs the Flood fight.

And i need only two more achivements for Halo Anniversary, the Library "objectives".
The no-deaths one i can do no problem solo(i nearly managed it but then i took a one step too much and fell down the final elevator shaft)... or i'll, uh, cheat and play it with my brother tomorrow.
But that "under 30 minutes" one? Shit, how am i going to do that? Even by skipping all the encounters i can, i wonder whether i can do that. Alone i probably can't... unless theres some trick to launch yourself directly to fourth floor.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Anyone else think blue proms > orange proms?

And why are they portal colors? Are proms actually test subjects of Aperture Science?

even the proms like some blue orange contrast

I gotta touch on the graphics again - this really runs so much smoother than Reach, and the image quality is just much better. Less jaggies, a bit better textures, significantly better lighting, and what "feels" like a wider FoV, but I can't say for sure. Either way, as a PC gamer who loves his 60+ fps at 1920x1200 with 16x AA, this isn't the massive disappointment that H3 and HR were. I'm not comparing it to PC games - just saying it's a darn nice looker for the 360.

although i'm not concerned about the fov, could you find out how many screens it takes to do a complete 360 turn?

oh, and it's a super long shot and it would blow my mind if it actually happens, but can you test out jetpack with the bumper jumper control scheme? i've been hoping from the start that they would let you use the jump button in mid-air to activate jetpack, so could you try that out for me?

 

[wwm0nkey]

Maps all seem to have a natural "flow", from what I can tell. The chokepoints seem to be the same in just about every match - which I actually like, as it means they're well thought-out. And furthermore, it doesn't grow boring, because those choke points usually have a couple paths to reach. So, for example, one particular smaller map has a "high ground" in the middle, above a connection of four hallways below. But the top can jump down, or go down two sets of stairs, or jump over, or use a lift to reach the high ground and then jump down. Basically, you have to expect that someone can always be right around the corner. But, unlike BF3 and its tendency to piss me off because I'm ALWAYS getting shot by someone behind me that I don't see; in H4, somehow it seems at least a majority of the encounters begin with each player seeing each other. It's very nice.

Another big thing I'm liking, is the variety of the maps. They all have clear points of interest, and so even in very plain and symmetrical maps, I rarely find myself going backwards or disoriented. And this is after just a few games. I'm sure it'll get even better with time. This is a massive improvement over Reach, where I felt like I was going in circles and completely lost a lot of the time.

Best news ever.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Today I've put another solid four hours or so into the multiplayer, and I feel I can better go over what I like, and what I don't like so much.

First off, let me say that my impressions are 95% involved with Team Slayer - as there are only about 50 people on, and that's where most are playing. I was lucky to get in a a couple Dominion games - a gametype I expect to enjoy the most, right after CTF - but we got DOMINATED twice and so I quit once we were back in the lobby.

I gotta touch on the graphics again - this really runs so much smoother than Reach, and the image quality is just much better. Less jaggies, a bit better textures, significantly better lighting, and what "feels" like a wider FoV, but I can't say for sure. Either way, as a PC gamer who loves his 60+ fps at 1920x1200 with 16x AA, this isn't the massive disappointment that H3 and HR were. I'm not comparing it to PC games - just saying it's a darn nice looker for the 360.

Maps all seem to have a natural "flow", from what I can tell. The chokepoints seem to be the same in just about every match - which I actually like, as it means they're well thought-out. And furthermore, it doesn't grow boring, because those choke points usually have a couple paths to reach. So, for example, one particular smaller map has a "high ground" in the middle, above a connection of four hallways below. But the top can jump down, or go down two sets of stairs, or jump over, or use a lift to reach the high ground and then jump down. Basically, you have to expect that someone can always be right around the corner. But, unlike BF3 and its tendency to piss me off because I'm ALWAYS getting shot by someone behind me that I don't see; in H4, somehow it seems at least a majority of the encounters begin with each player seeing each other. It's very nice.

Another big thing I'm liking, is the variety of the maps. They all have clear points of interest, and so even in very plain and symmetrical maps, I rarely find myself going backwards or disoriented. And this is after just a few games. I'm sure it'll get even better with time. This is a massive improvement over Reach, where I felt like I was going in circles and completely lost a lot of the time.

The guns all have a lot of power. I've yet to feel like I'm underpowered with any weapon. Even when someone has a sword or a rocket launcher, I think I'm doing okay most the time. Again, another improvement. That said, the Scattershot is kinda iffy, for me. I feel like that weapon is 50% spray and pray - Even when I get kills, I sometimes feel I don't deserve them. And other times, I get a bit irritated when five shots don't seem to do anything. Maybe I just need more time with it.

In Slayer, most the games are pretty evenly matched. But with that said, I like that it's still possible to come back from a large gap between you and first place. The odds can always be in your favor through some skillful plays.

All this said, I'm more excited for vehicles, bigger maps, and objectives. Slayer isn't really my thing, so I look forward to more people getting on.

What don't I like?

Nothing too terribly awful is bugging me. But I stick with what I said earlier - everything moves at a significantly faster pace than before. That's not bad - especially in Slayer. It actually feels like a lot of fun. But it really does worry me about those Objective games. I like the slow and methodical pace of past titles - I don't want that lost.

Also, the stupid shield. I hate that thing. It's like Armor lock.... It's just a "wait to die" kind of ability.

And lastly, grenades seem "different." I can't put my finger on it... But it's like they don't quite do the damage of before... or maybe the radius is smaller.... or something? But they're still effective quite a bit. Sounds like a good thing, right? Yeah, but for some reason they're not "clicking" for me, and I don't know why.

How do you think about the global ordinance system?

 

[Overdoziz]

o r d i n a n c e

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Also, the stupid shield. I hate that thing. It's like Armor lock.... It's just a "wait to die" kind of ability.

And so it begins..

 

[Ryaaan14]

Skel1ingt0n coming through on the impressions. Nice.

 

[DeadNames]

And so it begins..

Hey, at least they can get grenaded and can get punched through(?)