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[MaximumFlipFlop]

When did Cyren get Halo 4? More people on my friends list playing Halo 4

We're so close! In roughly 8 hours the reviews for the game will come pouring in. Roughly 24 hours after that the final episode of Forward Unto Dawn will release. Then it will be the weekend! I'm so excite!

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I think people misunderstood with what I meant by the CoD barebones playlist. I'm all for options, whether this be of any kind. Options are good regardless.

Here's an option. Shut up.

Jk, love you.

 

[Zoolader]

Just voted early, so now there are no distractions on Tuesday! I would recommend it to anybody voting, there was no line at all.

 

[neoism]

Why's that?

got the regular for free.... im poor yo

I kept my pre-order so I can sell it to make up for my purchase of the standard edition, get the Map Pack Pass, and have some extra money left over, since it seems to be selling at a nice price.

So iirc, everyone who plays within the first 2 weeks you will have the same 6 specializations as the LE?

that and I've had 2000 points for like 9 months so basically this game cost me almost nothing

 

[BlueScrote]

This has probably already been said, but non UK residents can get the Pizza Hut Red avatar armor simply by going to https://www.legendaryprizes.com/, entering your information, and claiming your from the United Kingdom.

 

[OdysseusVA]

When did Cyren get Halo 4? More people on my friends list playing Halo 4

I haven't pulled the trigger yet for fear of a ban :/

 

[willow ve]

Is there an over/under going on if they will ever scrap some of the changes they've made to Inifinity Slayer. Most specifically I'm thinking (in order of most likely to least likely):

1. Spawn anywhere on map
2. Random Ordnance Drops
3. Instant Spawn

 

[Devin Olsen]

got the regular for free.... im poor yo

that and I've had 2000 points for like 9 months so basically this game cost me almost nothing

Nice! how did you manage to get the regular for free?

 

[Poker Face]

just remembered theres a bulletin tonight, last one before launch.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Exactly. How do "pros" deal with with care packages, perks, etc. in CoD? I think the competitive community should embrace Halo changes, not ask for stripped down playlists.

The first part and the last part of this post counter each other.

CoD has barebones playlists without perks and killstreaks that in the past MLG used...

So in that regard;

Halo competitive players should ask for stripped down playlists.

I'm not getting what you mean?

Either way there willalways be people who don't want to compete with all the bullshit because it becomes luck. A story. If you pick the wrong piece to use you can lose against a piece thats strong against that. Its rock paper scissors in a visually appealing package... Its not Halo 1 and 2 where everybody had the same health,abilities,movement speed and could depend on and use that knowledge to fill gaps. Like oh he cant do that because I cant so he must be HERE! and then you realize noones there and hes shooting you from above nipples because he had jetpack...

Its all whoreshit. Halo was good and would be forever good if they stuck to what worked. They took out what worked and just kept upgrading graphics. All they needed to do was keep the same game but improve it technically.

 

[DeadByDawn]

I haven't pulled the trigger yet for fear of a ban :/

Is this still happening to anyone who plays early?

 

[Redford]

just remembered theres a bulletin tonight, last one before launch.

I thought they said it was likely tomorrow?

 

[Gr1mLock]

I dunno. I think by decreasing the number of weapons it becomes harder to be better than others. This creates a competitive environment. The thing thats brilliant is the things they do add have such a large gap in skill that there is a huge drive to get better and better.

Now don't think pros cant adapt cause traditionally, they can go into any playlist and wreck kids just as hard.

The problem with a lot of other weapons is these MLG teams have such great teamwork every long range weapon becomes overpowered because they set up crossfire. Where one enemy steps somewhere and they get hit instantly from two people sometimes more. This means a weapon like a plasma rifle is useless because it doesn't hit instantly and has no distance, so eventually it gets ignored and removed.

Now think of the carbine...its pretty much the DMR. Theres maybe a slight difference here and there but its really just a counterweapon for the campaign. Its unneccessary if you just give everyone the original weapon its meant to counter. Its a superfluous unneeded gun.

Yes. Nobody is saying it's not a logical step to cater more to the casual player, that's what sells you copies. Competitive play scares off a lot of people so it makes sense to make the game more accessible to new and bad players. But often this will lower the overall skill-gap which hurts the competitive players the most.

My point is that that comptetitive play shouldnt be geared towards

 

[IHaveIce]

just remembered theres a bulletin tonight, last one before launch.

lol you are right, totally forgot about it.

Any time for the bulletin?


And CyReN has the game? damn.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I dunno. I think by decreasing the number of weapons it becomes harder to be better than others. This creates a competitive environment. The thing thats brilliant is the things they do add have such a large gap in skill that there is a huge drive to get better and better.

Now don't think pros cant adapt cause traditionally, they can go into any playlist and wreck kids just as hard.

The problem with a lot of other weapons is these MLG teams have such great teamwork every long range weapon becomes overpowered because they set up crossfire. Where one enemy steps somewhere and they get hit instantly from two people sometimes more. This means a weapon like a plasma rifle is useless because it doesn't hit instantly and has no distance, so eventually it gets ignored and removed.

Now think of the carbine...its pretty much the DMR. Theres maybe a slight difference here and there but its really just a counterweapon for the campaign. Its unneccessary if you just give everyone the original weapon its meant to counter. Its a superfluous unneeded gun.

Yes. Nobody is saying it's not a logical step to cater more to the casual player, that's what sells you copies. Competitive play scares off a lot of people so it makes sense to make the game more accessible to new and bad players. But often this will lower the overall skill-gap which hurts the competitive players the most.

I feel fairly defeated....sandy fucked my life up

 

[Poker Face]

I thought they said it was likely tomorrow?

i thought that was last week?

 

[Karl2177]

The first part and the last part of this post counter each other.

CoD has barebones playlists without perks and killstreaks that in the past MLG used...

So in that regard;

Halo competitive players should ask for stripped down playlists.

I'm not getting what you mean?

Either way there should always be people who don't want to compete with all the bullshit because it becomes luck. A story. If you pick the wrong piece to use you can lose against a piece thats strong against that. Its rock paper scissors in a visually appealing package... Its not Halo 1 and 2 where everybody had the same health,abilities,movement speed and could depend on and use that knowledge to fill gaps. Like oh he cant do that because I cant so he must be HERE! and then you realize noones there and hes shooting you from above nipples because he had jetpack...

Its all whoreshit. Halo was good and would be forever good if they stuck to what worked. They took out what worked and just kept upgrading graphics. All they needed to do was keep the same game but improve it technically.

What happened to your mantra of Reach being good, and no one has adaption?

Also, I would argue that if they kept the core gameplay(the stuff that worked in H1&2) and added more stuff on top of it, it is beneficial. Everything on top can be removed, but you can play with certain things on top as well. If it was the same as it was, I doubt we would see a sandbox that is balanced both by range and by weapon niches.(of course I have yet to see that too, but Halo 4 is bringing that potential)

 

[neoism]

Nice! how did you manage to get the regular for free?

well in a way it isn't I had shit I didn't use anymore so I traded it in... a 3ds I will never use anymore got meh moneys worth already...and a few shitty games,that would do nothing but collect dust... I dislike GS but not spending money right now is what I need to do

 

[Fracas]

Blargh.

Wanting to stream, but Franklinator isn't home and i need his laptop.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

The first part and the last part of this post counter each other.

CoD has barebones playlists without perks and killstreaks that in the past MLG used...

So in that regard;

Halo competitive players should ask for stripped down playlists.

I'm not getting what you mean?

Either way there willalways be people who don't want to compete with all the bullshit because it becomes luck. A story. If you pick the wrong piece to use you can lose against a piece thats strong against that. Its rock paper scissors in a visually appealing package... Its not Halo 1 and 2 where everybody had the same health,abilities,movement speed and could depend on and use that knowledge to fill gaps. Like oh he cant do that because I cant so he must be HERE! and then you realize noones there and hes shooting you from above nipples because he had jetpack...

Its all whoreshit. Halo was good and would be forever good if they stuck to what worked. They took out what worked and just kept upgrading graphics. All they needed to do was keep the same game but improve it technically.

I honestly didn't know what MLG used for COD, so that explains the contradiction. Didn't realize they use the stripped down list there too, thought they used killstreaks, etc.

 

[Redford]

i thought that was last week?

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst125458_Ask-a-Question-for-the-Halo-Bulletin.aspx

Because of Halloween apparently.

 

[BigShow36]

What bothers me is that there are so many other ways to appeal to the casuals without hurting the competitive merit of the game, yet they are often not utilized effectively if at all in Halo's case.

There's a myth that seems to be going around: a game that is too competitive won't be popular. It's funny how none of these people that spout this can explain why the #1 PC game right now is League of Legends. LoL's number one priority is competitive balance; they are constantly releasing updates to balance the game. They grab the attention of the casual audience by their free-to-play business model, unlockable characters & skins, spectator mode, an unranked mode, and most of all -- a game that is fun because of how well balanced it is.

Let's also not forget the insane popularity of StarCraft & CounterStrike in the past. Both those games sold a ton.

Most people enjoy competitively balanced games because they are fair and lack frustrating, BS moments.

It's convenient to their arguments to ignore that fact.

 

[Akai__]

CyReN is probably on the list, because of THC, that's why he is playing right now.

 

[CyReN]

When did Cyren get Halo 4? More people on my friends list playing Halo 4

Media copy for thc.

 

[orznge]

It's convenient to their arguments to ignore that fact.

do you really think anyone that has any say in the design of any large-budgeted commercially developed first person shooter likes good shooters or has any idea what makes them good

 

[BigShow36]

do you really think anyone that has any say in the design of any large-budgeted commercially developed first person shooter likes good shooters or has any idea what makes them good

I would like to think so, but most of the "goodness" is gameplay they inherited from games over 10 years old.

 

[willow ve]

Its all whoreshit. Halo was good and would be forever good if they stuck to what worked. They took out what worked and just kept upgrading graphics. All they needed to do was keep the same game but improve it technically.

Actually really agree with the bolded. Then I wrote a long post not many will read...

I honestly think they should have straight up copied Call of Duty in one aspect (and one aspect only). COD makes minor graphical updates and changes very little in the way of core gameplay year to year. They basically make small iterative changes to a game everyone has know, essentially, since MW2 hit the market. On top of that they release a game every single year. In a yearly development/release cycle two things become de facto. 1) You don't have a long time to implement massive changes. 2) All of the smaller changes are more readily accepted by your fanbase because they are all used to your pace and the rate at which the game has progressed to date.

In Halo, with a 3 (or more) year development cycle those two things that have made COD so successful are now working against you. With a longer development time you now have the potential to throw a lot of changes into your title. At the same time the core of your fanbase, the kids/pros/adults/etc., that are still playing your game a full three years after launch have now grown accustomed to a specific iteration of Halo. When you introduce a new game mechanic (especially some of the changes that are so obviously borrowing from other titles) it becomes jarring, abrupt, and shreds a small (or large) part of your most die hard fans. This becomes a downward spiral as you continue to chase larger and larger sales (with larger budgets, more bells and whistles, and more new features copped from other titles) while consistently leaving your core fanatics farther and farther from the Halo they want.

 

[BlueScrote]

do you really think anyone that has any say in the design of any large-budgeted commercially developed first person shooter likes good shooters or has any idea what makes them good

what?

 

[FL1Psyde]

Media copy for thc.

I can haz inv to come over tomorrow after work

 

[Poker Face]

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst125458_Ask-a-Question-for-the-Halo-Bulletin.aspx

Because of Halloween apparently.

well im disappoint.

but there probably wont be anything of substance in the bulletin so w/e i guess.

 

[neoism]

Media copy for thc.

cyRen did you start THC with your own money...

 

[zap]

Media copy for thc.

Nice. THC going to be putting up a review too?

 

[lilty]

Is there an episode of THC tonight?

 

[Bregmann Roche]

Blargh.

Wanting to stream, but Franklinator isn't home and i need his laptop.

How about just playing regular type Reach? Then stream when your ChumBro shows up?

I'm getting on now. Going to take all my negative Halo feelings out on Reach so that when 4 gets here I'll be all smiles.

 

[orznge]

I would like to think so, but most of the "goodness" is gameplay they inherited from games over 10 years old.

I mean I guess there might be people that do but there are a million layers of bureaucracy in place as well as Contemporary Commercial First Person Shooter Design which ensure that they'll have zero meaningful influence

 

[BlueScrote]

Watching the steam now, I think it's the first extended stream of MP gameplay I've watched. New warthog design looks kind of odd from behind.

 

[LD2k]

Media copy for thc.

I can dig it. Keep up the great work with THC. Looking forward to the review. Are you personally reviewing it?

 

[neoism]

Watching the steam now, I think it's the first extended stream of MP gameplay I've watched. New warthog design looks kind of odd from behind.

I really dislike the design of the hog.. the only thing I like about vehicles in the game is they have weight unlike reach.. that shit was light as a feather.

 

[orznge]

Actually really agree with the bolded. Then I wrote a long post not many will read...

I honestly think they should have straight up copied Call of Duty in one aspect (and one aspect only). COD makes minor graphical updates and changes very little in the way of core gameplay year to year. They basically make small iterative changes to a game everyone has know, essentially, since MW2 hit the market. On top of that they release a game every single year. In a yearly development/release cycle two things become de facto. 1) You don't have a long time to implement massive changes. 2) All of the smaller changes are more readily accepted by your fanbase because they are all used to your pace and the rate at which the game has progressed to date.

In Halo, with a 3 (or more) year development cycle those two things that have made COD so successful are now working against you. With a longer development time you now have the potential to throw a lot of changes into your title. At the same time the core of your fanbase, the kids/pros/adults/etc., that are still playing your game a full three years after launch have now grown accustomed to a specific iteration of Halo. When you introduce a new game mechanic (especially some of the changes that are so obviously borrowing from other titles) it becomes jarring, abrupt, and shreds a small (or large) part of your most die hard fans. This becomes a downward spiral as you continue to chase larger and larger sales (with larger budgets, more bells and whistles, and more new features copped from other titles) while consistently leaving your core fanatics farther and farther from the Halo they want.

yeah the problem is that CE's basic mechanical design was really good and no game that came after it was an iteration of it

 

[NobleGundam]

Later on, I'll ask for the first 2 GAFfers to PM me since I've got 2 more Double EXP codes for HaloGAF.

 

[orznge]

not that I'm saying the Halo series' design should have progressed differently than it did, it's pretty clear that most people who had any say in the design of the series do not like CE on a design level considering almost a decade has been spent "rectifying" it's "mistakes" lol

 

[Pavaloo]

So all you really want is CE with improved graphics, but untouched gameplay?

 

[CyReN]

I can dig it. Keep up the great work with THC. Looking forward to the review. Are you personally reviewing it?

Doing something with multiplayer, I don't really want to review it quite yet but do impressions how it is without the fluff/honeymoon phase. The game can evolve a lot from how it is now, wouldn't be fair to try and grade it quite yet.

There is also campaign coming up tonight at 3am, and a Spartan Ops week 1 too tomorrow.

There should be a episode of THC tonight, Puckett and Elamite will be on with Gandhi going over their predictions for Dallas at 11pm est. If you miss it, it will be on youtube of course.

 

[Rickenslacker]

So all you really want is CE with improved graphics, but untouched gameplay?

if i could live in the alternative universe where reach was left to die and they actually did include multiplayer in cea instead i'd be entirely content. that's not to say that i don't think halo shouldn't change, it's just that most changes haven't been for the better.

 

[orznge]

So all you really want is CE with improved graphics, but untouched gameplay?

I'm pretty sure you could infer from my posts and a lot of other people's posts that what we would like an iteration of CE's basic mechanical design.

 

[IHaveIce]

CyReN let me work for THC.






And give me the copy of Halo 4

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Like its been long enough that they could have just re-released H2 with updated graphics called it Halo4 removed AA's/Perks/Equipment. Reskinned the weapons, updated the netcode, fixed the modding, cheating, and super bouncing, kept the amazing rank system, make similar maps. Release that. Call it Halo 4 as its its own game and not a complete remake, aka still have spec-ops, and the new campaign.

Thats what I want.

 

[orznge]

Like its been long enough that they could have just re-released H2 with updated graphics called it Halo4 removed AA's/Perks/Equipment. Reskinned the weapons, updated the netcode, fixed the modding, cheating, and super bouncing, kept the amazing rank system, make similar maps. Release that. Call it Halo 4 as its its own game and not a complete remake, aka still have spec-ops, and the new campaign.

Thats what I want.

I wanted embarrassingly Epically Awesome stuff. Sorry the Halo series didn't work out for you.

 

[Pavaloo]

I'm pretty sure you could infer from my posts and a lot of other people's posts that what we would like an iteration of CE's basic mechanical design.

Fair enough, but that was literally the only game that played like that. I feel like its counter-productive to cling to it when it has been so long and the game is still playable online on PC.

That said, I only feel this way because it seems like everyone has their own vision of how they'd want the Halo series to have progressed.

 

[willow ve]

So all you really want is CE with improved graphics, but untouched gameplay?

if i could live in the alternative universe where reach was left to die and they actually did include multiplayer in cea instead i'd be entirely content. that's not to say that i don't think halo shouldn't change, it's just that most changes haven't been for the better.

I don't really want CE with better graphics. I do want the bones of Halo to be put back into the game. Halo was always based as an arena style shooter. Every person starts with the same weapons, the same attributes, and the same (balanced) spawn position that allows them to choose what they want to try to pickup in the beginning. CE was a great game, 2 was a great game, 3 was a great game (especially if played without equipment), but in my opinion this was because they each took small steps from previous titles. They added weapons, vehicles, different gametypes, and new maps and at the same time kept the balance at spawn for each team.

It gets thrown around a lot (to the point that it has lost a lot of the meaning) but Reach really did introduce the roll the dice / rock paper scisssors mechanic into Halo. This wasn't traditionally in the Halo playbook and it was too radical for a lot of the core group to stay with the series. Even the competitive leagues largely died off.

If Reach had simply been Halo 3 with improved netcode, a few new weapons, new maps and a progressive ranking system (to unlock cosmetic things like weapon skins or armor pieces) it would have been an iteration on what many came to know and think of as Halo. Instead it was a revolutionary new look at what Halo could be and ultimately that gamble didn't pay off. Halo 4 may yet prove to be the revolutionary change that the franchise needed to regain the top of the most played (and most bought) franchise on the Xbox. For me personally I would have preferred a smaller evolutionary update...