Yes.
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This could be bs, but I heard there might be a "we want ranks" chant happening on stream this weekend.
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Halo |OT11| Forward Unto Dong
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Yes.
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This could be bs, but I heard there might be a "we want ranks" chant happening on stream this weekend.
In the console space Arena was a unique idea. As far as gauging how much 343 cares for visible ranks we can only look at the physical evidence. It doesn't even exist in tandem to the sterile carrot on stick experience.
It's indefensible, to be frank.
Pop
Member
Apparently will get matched by "trueskill" behind the scenes with other like minded skilled players. All sounds like total BS.
Didn't they say the ranks were just invisible? And in no way am I defending 343s decision to remove visible ranks, I'm just saying that to go so far as to say "they don't give a shit" is a bit extreme.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
wait a minute
what's this I hear about halo 4 not having visible ranks
what's this I hear about halo 4 not having visible ranks
I must've written a few thousand cumulative words on why that's not an adequate replacement, even if it works correctly, over the last 12 months. Being able to visually identify just how good an opponent or ally is on a unified scale is crucial to the very basis of competitive behaviour; like evaluating players and teams in sport is important for measuring results and success.
And I use the term competitive loosely, War Games is competitive, all the way from Griffball to Team Slayer Pro.
Thanks homeslice
Nirvana
Member
Just curious as to how difficult Heroic is supposed to be in Campaign? I normally do a Normal playthrough to get through the story, then my Legendary run and then every run after that is Heroic; but if Heroic is closer to Normal than Legendary in difficulty, I might just blast through on Heroic first and gather some achievements and such.
Classy
Finally get back on an MLG event and first thing you do is show them you have an upset fan base.
Normal is probably just as difficult or maybe a little more difficult (new enemies and such) than Heroic in Halo Reach.
The P of Poland
Member
I could have sworn they said that ranks would be visible, but only to oneself.
Oh really?
I'll probably still stick it on Heroic for the first run, it's somewhat of a tradition, but it's interesting to note it should feel harder than normal. No pun intended.
Genesis Knight
Member
Isn't BPR essentially a skill-based ranking stat?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I still can't believe we got that opportunity.
More to come (and something for non-backers too)!
Yea man. I certainly felt like I died more and there were times where I'm sitting behind cover, just praying for my shields to come back and trying to figure out how I'm going to handle this shit.
Just a lot of people are mad, not that I think this is the best way to handle things but there are a lot of disappointed competitive fans, it may not be your cup of tea but it was something vital for this set community.
Pop
Member
Like I post for you.
Anyways I'm super excited for Halo 4, it's been 5 years since the last. I'm just also super disappointed in no skilled ranks, this "trueskill" we have heard before. Remember Reach...
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
All I know is it supposedly weighs betrayals very high in determining your number.
Pop
Member
Yeah let me go play Living Dead and go 30-2 every match. I'll have a 100 BPR in no time.
Genesis Knight
Member
It's just mob mentality. A few guys start it up and then everyone starts doing it because it sounds cool. I'm sure most of them actually do want ranks but if you spoke to them individually they wouldn't be like that.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
If you look at the history quickly...
CE: NO ranks and often called the most competitive, players would literally take their xbox's and TV's to friends houses to play for days on end.
Halo 2: Ranks, clans and leaderboards that all basically became useless due to modding, cheating and the leaderboards were removed because of this. Ranks were reset after updates, still did not create a fair and reliable rank statistic.
Halo 3: Ranks, NO clans and leaderboards that once again became fairly meaningless due to boosting, cheating, multi-accounts, trial accounts and selling of accounts. At least modding got taken care of. Again the leaderboards were quickly taken off line due to cheating. Once again ranks were reset after a massive banhammer dropping.
Halo Reach: NO leaderboards, NO clans, NO persistent rank but a new Arena system. Did not stick with the community but too many variables e.g. maps, bloom.
Halo 4: Why bother with leaderboards? Why bother investing development and anti-cheating resources into an Arena 2.0 or new rank system when those resources can be better spent on content, maps, SPOPS missions etc. Could other game elements result in more population for Halo 4? I think the answer is a resounding yes resources can be better spent on something other than an abused and iterated system over 2,3 & Reach.
TL;DR Looking at a snapshot of rank over Halo FPS games I can agree with the developer and their resources expenditure that rank is better left to more controlled leagues such as MLG, where referees and LAN fairness deliver a far more accurate and reliable rank/outcome.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Who are YOU to say he can't post here? Stop with the clown questions.
Oh God. This is sexcellent.
I'm definitely archiving this. Thought it was a jpg... but then....
IT HAPPENED.
Hydranockz
Member
I must've written a few thousand cumulative words on why that's not an adequate replacement, even if it works correctly, over the last 12 months. Being able to visually identify just how good an opponent or ally is on a unified scale is crucial to the very basis of competitive behaviour; like evaluating players and teams in sport is important for measuring results and success.
And I use the term competitive loosely, War Games is competitive, all the way from Griffball to Team Slayer Pro.
Visual rank fails when shit happens. Do you look at Rangers and think they must be a shit team because of what division they are in? Because that's what you do when you see a 20 in Team Slayer who is actually a 50 on his main, right?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-third-division/table
Now I know leagues aren't what Halo 3 or 2 had but the effect was the same. Look at the actual skill of the team. When they essentially had their rank reset, perhaps by starting a new account to boost, did their skill change? Nope. Yet there they are playing scrubs at the lowest division in the league.
When visual ranks were in Halo a lot of shit happened. Shit that, in 343's vision, will not be as prevalent in 4 and I can't fault them for trying to reduce it. It could still fail horribly but at least it won't be the same as the flawed systems in 3 and 2 (in 343's mind).
10/10
Yes, leave it to the company that left the competitive community out in the dry for 6+ months and didn't allow us to update our playlist. Your idea is essentially gamebattles, if you have ever played gamebattles there is a reason why you rather just hop on and get matched with people and have a personal skill progression system.
Not that I'm not grateful for what they have done and are doing this weekend, but there shouldn't be such a monopoly since essentially this could be the last MLG Halo event this weekend.
Oh come on, that's hardly fair. You don't own MLG.
Us as the community not personal. Can't tell if this is sarcasm. I hate you.
Seriously this. The visible rank crusaders and campaign theater crusaders can fuck right off.
Do you know what day Halo is on?
Pop
Member
I'll take a visible skill rank system pleaseeeeee
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I'd be happy if they ranked MLG and one default playlist. At least I'd know which to avoid the cheaters in.
I can agree the playlists need tweaking more often and why they don't just have an official MLG representative update that playlist/setting specifically is beyond me.
However you have to admit that ranked online in matchmaking means very little at an individual level due to all the issues over all the games. I played in them all and for example in Halo 3 slayer/objective at level 50 I know how often the host cheating, booting, boosting, multi-accounts and all that took place. It was at epidemic proportions for months and still annoying years down the track too.
If you can solve the cheating issues then I'd be all for a return of ranked. Hell I'm not even for or against it but I understand why they took it out. It's meaningless.
After all the players who are for ranked were all basically 50's in Halo 3 so what difference is it really for them? They'll still be matched and most likely even recognised many of the teams and players they'll face anyhow. It's still win or lose or die trying so what's the real difference?
Within the first minute of gameplay you can tell the organised teams for the randoms and the power players from the noobs.
This. It is vital to understand that there are by no means any security in future Halo events with MLG. MLG is a business and a company that wants to thrive and make money. If Halo doesn't provide that then they cannot support it, plain and simple.
A ranking system will help increase the competitiveness of the halo community so that they can fight for "the best rank." And this was a major factor in Halo 2 and Halo 3 that helped get the MLG community recognized.
I know personally that I would never have discovered MLG if there were no ranks because I wouldn't have cared to be the best or achieve that "50" rank and develop strategies to make me a good Halo player.
I like what the Arena gaming guys have been doing. I wouldn't mind if they became the "go-to" for competitive gaming.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
What pains me is all of the "343 doesn't give a shit about the competitive community." I'll never buy it, even though it wouldn't be unreasonable to see why a developer would just say f it.
Why cater to a community w/ a feature that large numbers of that community (not necessarily large percentages) would immediately find ways to crack and exploit?
I was hit offline so many times I almost started to believe it was my ISP. That garbage completely stopped the last couple months as soon as I stopped playing ranked. And you know what- that's been really nice. The community has a cancer, and frankly, invisible ranks is the easiest fix. It blows, it ruined something I really enjoyed- but I won't blame 343 for it.
* None of this is directed towards you, Cyren - I think the work you do is top notch.
I was complaining about how terrible that review was.
what the fuck
Sorry I should have prefaced my post with the fact I was referring to the EGM review, rather than just using a line directly from it.
oh great the Visible Ranking Demagogues riled up the juniors
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
YEAH DUDE!!!! Fuck everyone who is really vocal about features that are absent in Halo 4 that were in prior Halo titles.. FUCK THEM ALL!!!!
Bro if you've looked at my posts in here and specifically Facebook you know I'd love ranks. I welcome them fully, even.
I'm also capable of seeing both sides of the visible/non visible argument.
However, you took my point and construed it to being about my preference when in reality I was saying it would look childish to finally get your way at MLG and shit on folks who made it possible by chanting "we want ranks." It's a have your cake and eat it too way of thinking when there are probably more constructive ways to get your point across.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
How dare someone request a feature that would improve the game for myself or others, especially one that was featured in a previous game!
Sweeeet. In there.
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