Zeouterlimits
Member
Cookin' in HD.Tunavi said:
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Halo: Reach |OT4| This Thread is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
GhaleonEB said:
And right up there next to him:
The enemy cannot detect them there, and there is no soft kill barrier.
There is a spot that works like that one in every FF map. And every match I play there's one or two dudes doing that.
I know I shouldn't, but at the end of a match, I always send those guys messages saying I hope they get fucking banned(knowing quite well the won't, unfortunately) in the vague hope they'll get scared, stop doing that, therefore stop ruining FireFight for people who actually want to play.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Zeouterlimits said:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/dont-believe-the-low-bit-rate-hd-lie/959
Ughh technically yes HD.
Try not to throw around HD, you don't download an HD video in a few seconds. That file you just rendered became 38MB for a 33 second video.
That ain't HD...That was HD before Bungie desecrated the shit out of it after charging you some money.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Hire Juices - Professional Buzz Killxxjuicesxx said:
I just meant it as a nice thing to do, as I don't use my render minutes anymore..
The Librarian
Banned
I love Unearthed. Granted, I haven't played a game of it outside Score Attack, but still. Yeah, I wish 343/CI had put more vehicles to fight against and more vehicles for the player to use, but the on-foot combat is just so good.GhaleonEB said:
xxjuicesxx
Member
Zeouterlimits said:
it was very nice of you.7echnicolor
Member
I've tried that several times, it annoys them but it doesn't make them leave their spot.A27 Tawpgun said:
All Bungie (or 343) has to do is put kill barriers in all of the idling spots. Since it's apparently impossible to figure out who the idlers are.
Also, can't the Game Complete credits be switched with the Performance credits? Completing a game of Firefight should give you 1000 credits max, actually taking the time to play through a Firefight game should give you a good payout. (I hope that makes sense)
TheLastFantasy
Member
I don't understand why people are upset with players idling on FF. Is it because they simply earn credit by doing nothing? Sure it ticks you off a bit but why can't you just ignore them?
Yeah... but blocking some of those exploitable areas (as Bungie did for, say, the spot under the stairs on The Pit in Halo 3) would help the problem, without any risk of unfair banning. I understand that making changes to maps requires testing before putting them in Matchmaking - but you've got a pretty solid community that is WILLING to do the searching for you - I really cannot find a downside to this sort of easy fix.urk said:
This will not stop all idlers - but it'll certainly put a crimp in the style of the type that Ghal ran into last night (and keep Limited games from running on for 15 minutes with no action), at almost no cost to ANYONE.
xxxstylzxxx
Member
GhaleonEB said:I played a game of BTB for the precision weapon Challenge. One-Flag CTF on Boardwalk. It went like this:
Pretty much my experience as well. (One-flag CTF on Pinnacle laughs at this btw) I just can't understand why anyone at Bungie/343 hasn't addressed something that's been universally acknowledged as an obvious mistake in objective games. What's even more discouraging is how such a boneheaded decision was ever approved of in the first place. I'd once again request for this to be fixed but I really shouldn't even have to based on....well the above image says it all really.
HiredN00bs
Member
Audio: Windows Media Audio 48000Hz stereo 96kbpsxxjuicesxx said:
Video: WVC1 1280x720 30.00fps 8000kbps
VC-1 @ 8mbps isn't that bad...
It makes me sad, seeing what BTB is in Reach. 3/4 of all my Halo 3 matchmaking games were in BTB. To me BTB is about large-scale objectives like 2-flag and Neutral Assault, and Slayer on a big vehicle oriented map. But in Reach, stuff like One-Flag on Boardwalk with Drop Shields everywhere are more the norm than the exception.Havok said:
I know Jeremiah is going to be tackling BTB soon for a major clean up, and I'm pretty excited to see that. I like what he's done when he focuses on playlist. But even quick fixes like tossing the Drop Shield and removing Countdown and Boardwalk from the line up would do a lot to help. The majority of the time I try BTB, it's a truly miserable experience. I want it to be awesome, and Reach contains the nuts and bolts to make it awesome.
I find it hilarious that none of the Bungie guys ever comment on ridiculous pictures like that one, like seriously, at least give us an explanation as to why you refuse to take it out. At least then I'll know it's because it will hurt the guys feelings who invented it, and not because you think it's good gameplay.
*insert Shake Appeal to talk about me feeling entitled*
*insert Shake Appeal to talk about me feeling entitled*
BTB is going to get a long overdue pass, but Firefight doesn't have the same wealth of knobs and tools as standard multiplayer maps do, unfortunately (unless you count the wealth of knobs and tools whose sole mission is join games and not play). If we could have slapped a blocker or kill volume in some of the notorious rest stops, we already would have.
I'll regroup with the sustain and online teams to see what kind of impact their most recent rules have had, an whether or not we have more creative methods we could use to make the time these people are wasting even more wasteful (knowing that success for some of these people is successfully degradIng the experience for others).
I'll regroup with the sustain and online teams to see what kind of impact their most recent rules have had, an whether or not we have more creative methods we could use to make the time these people are wasting even more wasteful (knowing that success for some of these people is successfully degradIng the experience for others).
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
OuterWorldVoice said:You should have ricocheted a sniper round off a grenade bounced into the central apex of the shield overlap.
Problem, textures?
What, no "should have armor locked?"
Thank you, I really appreciate both the efforts and the response. I know I've been going on about it, but it's because I love Firefight to death, and it's a battle every game with folks out to ruin the experience.urk said:
I'd like to suggest you guys consider yanking the jetpack from the offending maps just on Firefight Limited. It's not useful on a flat map such as Courtyard. Much of the time it's used exclusively for hopping up into griefers favorite location. The swap could facilitate the return of the shotty to the load outs, which a lot of folks have been asking for in the Optimatch. There would be some grumbling about losing the jet pack from the playlist, but I'd wager a whole lot of that grumbling would come from folks with less than wholesome reasons.
The Librarian
Banned
Glad to hear it.urk said:
Agreed. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I'm fine with the core mechanics of Reach (although I can see where they're coming from), it's the little things that are done wrong that result in death by a thousand cuts, so to speak. Things like loadouts and gametypes not being tailored to specific maps/playlists (resulting in either hilariously short or long return times on objective stuff and Drop Shield-esque armor ability shenanigans) annoy me just enough to not want to bother with it.GhaleonEB said:
The thing that ends up really breaking stuff is map design, though. I've said it before, but the best maps in the series have always seemed like they were designed with a purpose in mind and capitalized on their strengths. The high point for those Big Team (or even Skirmish) maps was Halo 2 for me, with Terminal, Relic, Headlong, and Waterworks, but Halo 3 had Avalanche and Standoff that felt similarly tailored to 2-sided objective gametypes, where they were at their best. I don't feel that Reach has that level of map quality, especially not in the Big Team space. While Highlands, Breakpoint, and Tempest are fine, the others are kind of terrible for large teams (Paradiso, the Invasion maps, etc), especially in objective gametypes. I don't doubt that this was noticed by the Bungie guys, though, because it seems like maps such as Countdown and Boardwalk were thrown in as filler. I hoped that Forge would be the solution, but seeing the quality of a few of the maps chosen for that playlist, it doesn't seem like it solves anything.
Unfortunately, outside of large DLC map count like Halo 2 had with the Maptacular Pack (5 maps, 12 dollars), I don't see a real solution to the that bigger issue.
edit: missed urk's post. It's really very comforting to know that, even outside of specifics, that things are being worked on.
Agreed. In Objective, since if you're the bomb or flag guy and do your damndest to get the objective, you're not going to get a good payout no matter what because you aren't getting commendation progress. I really think that the win bonus in Objective needs to be the primary source of credit payout, this would encourage people to actually try to cap objectives instead of playing Slayer and ignoring the objectives.Ramirez said:
A lot of the idling comes from the fact that you get more credits for more time as opposed to actually playing well. It's so dumb when you're playing Objective, dismantle a team in like 2 minutes, cap 3 flags before they can even touch yours, and you get 400 credits for the game. Credits should be about performance, not how much time you invest in a game.
I hate to be the one to point fingers here, but I feel I must. Bungie has seen some of the creative stuff that people will do to break the game. Knowing that, why didn't they have the expandability like they did with multiplayer? Firefight seems so limited, even though before the game came out, Bungie was touting how customizable Firefight would be.urk said:
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Tashi0106 said:
Joke? That's one of the first things people were bitching about. It's better to let the game time expire than win early at all, in any playlist.
That and the absence of a "win bonus" has never made any sense.
There is only so much that can be accounted for, anticipated, and tested. After that there may have been no possible way to make changes possible. I don't know anything about the systems they use in Reach, but I'd assume that the tools they use for adding the default kill zones to mp maps are the same as the one they use for cp and ff, which can't be altered.Karl2177 said:
After all that it all boils down to them giving us all these tools that no one else has given to a console community and then saying "this isn't good enough, we're better!"
I am certainly curious what Jeremiah has up his sleeve regarding BTB. I'm in the camp hoping he fixes and adjusts Boneyard and Spire to be a comparable 1-side map built for One Flag and One Bomb. Questionable decisions aside with their spawns and random weapon/vehicle layouts, why have the flag and bomb placements just as bizarre?
For example, Spire. Where is the hurt in the offensive team spawning down by the river with Warthogs, Mongoose, and a Falcon marching to the Spire where the flag and bomb location is located? Put the regular spawns all around that halved area, instead of primarily one focal area like is normally is now. Spawn at BFG from time to time, spawn at the Bravo and Alpha phases from Invasion, spawn at the river and add in a teleporter for quick access to the middle part of the map so it doesn't take you 20 mins to walk back up. And for getting back to the vehicles quicker. Why isn't the flag and bomb location on the outter edge of the Spire so it acts like a true asymmetric map? Right now it's a muddled display.
Kind of wish they had a better plan to gauge this. :|
For example, Spire. Where is the hurt in the offensive team spawning down by the river with Warthogs, Mongoose, and a Falcon marching to the Spire where the flag and bomb location is located? Put the regular spawns all around that halved area, instead of primarily one focal area like is normally is now. Spawn at BFG from time to time, spawn at the Bravo and Alpha phases from Invasion, spawn at the river and add in a teleporter for quick access to the middle part of the map so it doesn't take you 20 mins to walk back up. And for getting back to the vehicles quicker. Why isn't the flag and bomb location on the outter edge of the Spire so it acts like a true asymmetric map? Right now it's a muddled display.
That irks me, as well. Kind of wish this cR system didn't heavily get swayed by time. In BTB and Invasion you get a ton, but that's mianly due to it being around 10-12 minutes minimum normally. Team Slayer and Arena garner a decent amount, but they too last a decent amount. If you smash a team in Objective, and only play for 3-4 minutes, here's your 300 or 400 cR payout. More points awarded for Bomb armings, flag captures, territories captured, oddball carried time, etc. Or maybe if they had Challenges for "Win 3 CTF games" somewhere.Ramirez said:
Kind of wish they had a better plan to gauge this. :|
That kind of reward leads to betrayals, because the internet is full of awful awful people (if you're talking about individual points awarded specifically). Reward teamwork in a playlist that requires it to compete instead of individual achievement. If you mean that the team as a whole gets those extra credits, then yeah, that'd be nice.Striker said:
Oh, and on Spire: Nuke it. Unless they can cut the map in half, it doesn't work for anything but Invasion, and even then, it's not exactly a shining beacon of quality.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Havok said:
Yep, as it is now people will still betray so they can cap.
Striker said:
All of those modifiers were considered. Rewards for Flag Captures means the people idling in Firefight would dedicate there lives to stealing your flags steps from the plate or swiping the oddball out of your cold, dead hands. Many performance metrics would spur similar behavior. Even without investment bonuses for performance, players in Halo 3 would hold objectives to rack up kills (i.e. victory laps).
Not to say that time itself is not without its own problems. There's no silver bullet.
Alienshogun said:
That doesn't mean you should reward them for it.
Yeah, team centric awards. Perhaps then it will push players to actually want to assault the opposing base instead of sitting on a rock playing slayer all game.
As for the Boardwalk/Drop Shield picture, that's one reason why I'm happy I hardly got to play that map-gametype combo. Midsize map with 16 players only welcomes in some abuse. It would be the smart thing to do by removing the DS loadout permanently from MP altogether, but I'm not sure what their plans are. Without the DS, One Flag on Boardwalk might be something different outside 2-flag on Hemorrhage and Highlands - no matter the game, you'll always need One Flag and One Bomb gaming in BTB/Objective. It's what I loved about Halo 2 so much, and you point it out, Havok.
Terminal, Relic, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Turf, Zanzibar. Great asymmetric maps that had outstanding flag and bomb locations. The locations served a purpose and didn't seem so random, whereas they do for Powerhouse, Boardwalk, Spire, and Boneyard.
As for the Boardwalk/Drop Shield picture, that's one reason why I'm happy I hardly got to play that map-gametype combo. Midsize map with 16 players only welcomes in some abuse. It would be the smart thing to do by removing the DS loadout permanently from MP altogether, but I'm not sure what their plans are. Without the DS, One Flag on Boardwalk might be something different outside 2-flag on Hemorrhage and Highlands - no matter the game, you'll always need One Flag and One Bomb gaming in BTB/Objective. It's what I loved about Halo 2 so much, and you point it out, Havok.
Terminal, Relic, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Turf, Zanzibar. Great asymmetric maps that had outstanding flag and bomb locations. The locations served a purpose and didn't seem so random, whereas they do for Powerhouse, Boardwalk, Spire, and Boneyard.
The Librarian
Banned
lol I remember posts on here about flag capture parades in Halo 3. Shit was hilarious.urk said:
Striker said:
Unless their goal is to keep you from getting your sweet, sweet team centric reward. Or they just suck. We already see a lot of rage posts when people get matched up with someone who isn't Hysteria. Now that guy keeps me from getting the perf bonus, too?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
urk said:
I didn't say it did, I was agreeing with him. Not everything I say is negative Urkle!
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
urk said:
Only if you reciprocate with some lovin' fishhookin'.
Yeah, the placement on Boardwalk and Powerhouse are kind of baffling. I felt that Powerhouse worked just fine in the beta for asymmetric objective, but I can only imagine that the change was made to make it easier for the offensive team (a change I really disagree with. Offense is supposed to be hard. It's the point of having a good base structure.). I don't even know that I could think of a good reason for the flag placement on Boardwalk. I really do believe it would flow about a billion times better with the flag up top where there are multiple routes of escape, rather than a giant flat grenadefest.Striker said:
It's not a perfect solution, but I guess that I would argue that it's a better solution than not encouraging team play at all. I honestly don't care about the actual act of gaining credits for myself, but the effect it has on player behavior can't be ignored. Unfortunately you're probably right, but in my eyes, having to deal with the very rare griefer who will be booted after a few minutes is a more appealing option than the ever-present random who plays Slayer back at base instead of trying to help.urk said:
As an avid Firefight player, I want you to know that I have no problem with this.urk said:
But specific to Firefight, I think there more than other playlists the time factor is more of an issue, because of how long Firefight matches can go on; the Game Complete reward is usually at my rank cap each game. If deaths dinged the Performance Bonus and points contributed to it, and the ratio was tilted to more of a 60/40 mix between Performance and Game Complete, it might affect behavior accordingly.
Right now my Game Complete bonus is usually 60%-70% of my total cR, and that's on games where I get over 1,000 cR in Commendations. So players who idle get a nice pile of cR and miss out on relatively little payout in the process.
I don't think that's the right solution. Friendly fire is important in team games of Halo because you have to watch where your rocket is going to go. Additionally, the guy carrying the flag or bomb or whatever is only a part of the team that's allowing this to happen by protecting him. Team rewards give incentive for general teamwork, not just very specific objectives.Mojo said: