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[Ragnarok Flames]

Green, I'm loving all this lore discussion.

 

[Poodlestrike]

How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?

Been lurking a couple of months, signed up a week before E3, just got validated today!

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
21 years old, posting from Ohio.

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Been a fan since I got an Xbox and Halo: CE for Christmas the year it came out. So, basically my entire life. Played all the games, though I'm still working my way through Spartan Assault. Damn you, mobile focus!

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)
Campaign, easily.

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)
I like all of the off-beat playlists and objective games; Invasion and Firefight were probably my favorite things in ODST and Reach. I've also got a soft spot for one playlist in Halo 4 whose name I can't recall, where you capturing and holding various bases netted you not just points, but vehicles, automatic turrets, etc. It didn't play that well, but I liked the idea behind it.

AR or BR?
I know the BR is better, but dammit, I'm just too fond of the AR.

Highest Halo 3 level and what playlist?
Dunno. Been a while. Probably not very high .

Favorite Halo 2 map?
Acension

Favorite all-time Halo map?
This is like asking which of my (theoretical) children is my favorite.

- Other Halo sites/forums you have been a member of.
Nothing notable.

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Lots and lots of strategy games.

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.)
Currently between jobs, hoping to get a co-op in the spring. Also playing around with Project Spark.

 

[daedalius]

-- It could be Mendicant Bias (or even a seeker assigned to protect/defend/contain it), because the giant birdmachine was buried under sand, and in Silentium: The Trial of Mendicant Bias, we note that Didact buries Mendicant Bias in a tomb under sand on the Ark, and I like the idea that this location from the trailer is on the Ark...

Its still hard for me to believe this scene was hidden on waypoint!

It seems so integral to the books, I didn't even read it until months later.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Think we'll actually see that "War Sphinx" in Halo 5's Campaign? If so, on what level (in terms of interactivity)?

Personally, I hope so, but I still have yet to be blown away by anything in a Halo Campaign aside from CE and Reach's Sabre mission (it's really too bad Bungie spoiled that surprise). I really want them to do something crazy with the single player and not play it so safe. It's funny because Halo 4 got dinged for being too similar to past games, but many fans complained that it was too unlike past games.. Either way, I just want to be blown away and I think that could only happen if they drastically change things up.

 

[iMax]

Wow, can't believe I haven't done one of these yet! Not sure if there's a template for this, so I'll just pick the last one I saw.

How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Just over two years. Lurked heavily since '05.

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Been a fan since Halo 2 (LTTP). Since played all games, multiple times, on Legendary (but of course).

What mode do you spend most of your time in? (i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)
Time-wise, multiplayer. But the campaign resonates with me more.

What is your favorite playlist?
SWAT

AR or BR?
Team BR

Favorite Halo 2 map?
Zanzibar

Favorite all-time Halo map?
Ouch. I think I'm gonna go with... Construct.

Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Rainbow Six, bitches!

 

[Orochinagis]

Two theories, with some elaboration:

First Idea:


To elaborate on this theory, I believe this thing from the gif above is either:

-- A War Sphinx, Forerunner combat skin/vehicle

Excerpt from Cryptum concerning War Sphinxes:


The above is likely Didact's armour before he became all crazy. It's from the cutscene on the Halo 4 level Librarian. I like to think of it as "good Didact" armour. Getting this would be pretty damn sweet, in my opinion. I notice how the image at first appears to be Master Chief, though as he looks up (a trademark Chief movement) the full visor and armour is revealed.

--

All of the above is wishful thinking really, but I'd like to see it. Hell... I'd like to see Chief get BOTH at some point in the next Halo game...

I think that was his promethean armor before his DNA ascention and composer further mutation.

I am still in doubt about how much liberty 343i have to make the new enemies mechanics or make a IA overhaul to make them smart and not letting you space to do something if you enter rambo style. I really hope you can fight the Sphynx like fighting it first on the ground the ride it on its back and start destrioying his wings part by part and not QTE something 4 times to kill it

Worst case scenario is they are bringing Halo 4 enemies assets and just make them some slighly designs just to fill nearly all campain (Never forget theron guards in gears of wars 3) and just put the new enemies in the small ending portion of the campaign.

 

[Mistel]

Greencastle could it be like these suits the promethean's wore before being robots:

 

[Rev3rb]

BTW, a few people tweeted/PM'd me about RTX, I won't be there because I am in Iceland. Getting soaked.

Boo. Is Jessica and/or Bravo coming? Tashi?

rip supersecretafterparty

Think we'll actually see that "War Sphinx" in Halo 5's Campaign? If so, on what level (in terms of interactivity)?

I can guarantee you Chief will mount that sucker and ride it into the sunset.

 

[KnightHero117]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YLl2NLVFA

I think it's funny how mendicant bias has always been lurking through out the halo plot without most people noticing. Bungie was obviously going to do something with him otherwise what was the point of hinting him in Contact Harvest, halo 2 and 3? If there's one thing I'm happy with 343, it's the fact they're finally expanding on him. I believe something BIG is going to happen in the lore once he does come back, and judging from the video it's has to do with the flood of some sort.

He knows an action that will atone for his sins and is calling out to Chief for that reason.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm thinking it probably refers to the armor from the second example. Class 12 was referred to as a minimum requirement (IIRC), and besides, you couldn't fit any of that other stuff in the Library.

 

[Orochinagis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YLl2NLVFA

I think it's funny how mendicant bias has always been lurking through out the halo plot without most people noticing. Bungie was obviously going to do something with him otherwise what was the point of hinting him in Contact Harvest, halo 2 and 3? If there's one thing I'm happy with 343, it's the fact they're finally expanding on him. I believe something BIG is going to happen in the lore once he does come back, and judging from the video it's has to do with the flood of some sort.

He knows an action that will atone for his sins and is calling out to Chief for that reason.

I had the idea Bungie wanted to keep you remind you of that enigmatic civilization and the unknown conection with humanity and make the story advance following those breadcrumbs. Dunno maybe finally meet one of them as the last remant of their civilization in the final Halo would be a awesome setting to end the series but the ashes never know.

Revealing mostly everything in the novels and a direct interaction with one of them kinda blows the mistery.

 

[Steelyuhas]

They'd have to speak with my Agency. I might be too busy filming the biggest action thriller of 2016 with Brad Pitt in South Korea. Brad and I go way back so I'm throwing him a bone.

Doesn't matter, you're too tall to play Hamish Jr anyways.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Greencastle could it be like these suits the promethean's wore before being robots:

Yeah it could be, those were old combat skins from the Human-Forerunner war, which was about 9000 years before the Flood-Forerunner war.

The whole Promethean terminology is kinda weird. You have the Warrior-Servants, which is a type of Forerunners that does battle and stuffs for the Didact. Of those, the Prometheans were at one point the best-of-the-best of the Warrior-Servants - kind of like Spartans if Warrior-Servants were the UNSC I guess. They were super smart, super fast, super strong, etc. A few of which were actually Didact and Librarians children, though all perished in the Human-Forerunner war, their essences stored within the old War Sphinxes I talked about in the post above.

The Promethean Knights, however, were composed-digital forms of those Prometheans put into those robot carapaces we see in Halo 4.

I bet the Didact had a super-advanced version of their armour at this point in time.

I think that was his promethean armor before his DNA ascention and composer further mutation.

I am still in doubt about how much liberty 343i have to make the new enemies mechanics or make a IA overhaul to make them smart and not letting you space to do something if you enter rambo style. I really hope you can fight the Sphynx like fighting it first on the ground the ride it on its back and start destrioying his wings part by part and not QTE something 4 times to kill it

Worst case scenario is they are bringing Halo 4 enemies assets and just make them some slighly designs just to fill nearly all campain (Never forget theron guards in gears of wars 3) and just put the new enemies in the small ending portion of the campaign.

I think so too, though it would be cool to get his Blue armour to fight him, where did the Red one in Halo 4 come from? Is it the same, or just another kind of armour? Hard to say... Imagery in this clip is really, really strange.

The problem I have with fighting the construct is that in the trailer (assuming the teaser is actually from somewhere in the campaign, who knows anymore...) Chief doesn't seem to have anything with him aside from what looks like Cortana's chip and his new poncho... How is he going to fight it? I suspect he will either drive it, or speak with it. Or maybe even put the chip he has into it... Again, hard to say.

Think we'll actually see that "War Sphinx" in Halo 5's Campaign? If so, on what level (in terms of interactivity)?

Personally, I hope so, but I still have yet to be blown away by anything in a Halo Campaign aside from CE and Reach's Sabre mission (it's really too bad Bungie spoiled that surprise). I really want them to do something crazy with the single player and not play it so safe. It's funny because Halo 4 got dinged for being too similar to past games, but many fans complained that it was too unlike past games.. Either way, I just want to be blown away and I think that could only happen if they drastically change things up.

For me, the coolest shit would be sort of a build-up of a couple missions where Chief is exploring the ruins of the Ark... kinda-sorta open-world like in ODST. But when you discover this thing, it opens up and you can fly around to any location on the Ark. I dunno... I have no clue what that thing is or how it would affect gameplay aside from being the largest scale vehicle ever driveable in Halo. You'd need a certain layer of abstraction of scale to be able to transition between on-foot and in-vehicle for something that size (and it's probably really fast, too...)

Its still hard for me to believe this scene was hidden on waypoint!

It seems so integral to the books, I didn't even read it until months later.

It's crazy that it was hidden, yeah. I think the Section 3 ARG folks had to unlock it, which means to me that it is significant, although cryptic...

 

[User 73706]

I had the idea Bungie wanted to keep you remind you of that enigmatic civilization and the unknown conection with humanity and make the story advance following those breadcrumbs. Dunno maybe finally meet one of them as the last remant of their civilization in the final Halo would be a awesome setting to end the series but the ashes never know.

Revealing mostly everything in the novels and a direct interaction with one of them kinda blows the mistery.

I think it was also Bungie trying to capitalize on the mystery of the Forerunners without directly having you communicate with one, as well. Bias realizes that of the still-sapient life that exists in the universe, he was basically all that was left of the Forerunners in the old lore.

Maybe Chief's at the Greater Ark in Halo 5 because Mendicant Bias is (theoretically, based on Halo 3's terminals) the only AI to truly reach trans-sentience - the fourth and mostly theoretical state in AI Rampancy where they level out and gain the capacity to feel. Y'know, so he could figure out how to bring back Cortana and make her sentient.

EDIT: OT, but I'm developing a clearer idea on the Project Livechamber logo, suggestions / comments / criticism welcome.

 

[MrGreencastle]

I think it was also Bungie trying to capitalize on the mystery of the Forerunners without directly having you communicate with one, as well. Bias realizes that of the still-sapient life that exists in the universe, he was basically all that was left of the Forerunners in the old lore.

Maybe Chief's at the Greater Ark in Halo 5 because Mendicant Bias is (theoretically, based on Halo 3's terminals) the only AI to truly reach trans-sentience - the fourth and mostly theoretical state in AI Rampancy where they level out and gain the capacity to feel. Y'know, so he could figure out how to bring back Cortana and make her sentient.

Lesser Ark - Installation 00. We're assuming the Greater Ark was destroyed many eons ago by Mendicant Bias and the Gravemind/Flood before the activation of the Array. Greater Ark made the first Halos, but they were crap, so Master Builder made a second, super secret Ark (the one in Halo 3) to make the "current" array of 6 Halo rings - Installation 07 was the last of the original rings. Greater Ark was thought of as the "last stand" of the Forerunners, and is where pretty much all the surviving ones died in this event pretty much except for those referenced in Silentium Rebirth.

I really feel like the Mendicant Bias thread is not over. I would love to see his return as the buildup since IRIS has been subtly maddening!

Not sure of any other AIs that have achieved metastability other than MB... Interesting plot device that even existed with Durandal in Marathon!

 

[-Ryn]

Two well thought out theories

I think you might be onto something on both accounts.

Giant Bird Sphinx Thing
I agree that it might be Mendicant Bias within a War Sphinx. The way it was described in the books made me think they acted more along the lines of mobile suits or mechs given the size and function. If they were combat skins that would be insane. However back to it being Mendicant Bias, if we are in fact going back to the Ark in Gaurdians then it would really make sense for that to be him.

It would also make sense for Chief to go back there himself as well. If he is trying to find a way to bring Cortana back or learn about the Forerunners, where better to go and who better to ask than the very being that played a major part in it all. I'd imagine that Chief has some kind of idea who Mendicant is. Unless the terminals were just an expositional thing that only the players actually were seeing. Aside from those 2 possibilities I can't think of much other reason why Chief would go to the Ark. I doubt it's to get super weapons to fight with. UNSC is already doing that. Of course he may be going there through some kind of guidance from the Geass he has or the accelerated evolution. I don't think that being immune to the giant Tang mix machine is all he was getting from that.

One more thing to consider is that Mendicant Bias could be considered a Gaurdian of sorts. He helped save the galaxy, once helped the Forerunners against the flood (until he lost it), and has apparently transcended rampancy into the final stage (the name of which escapes me).

I don't remember what happened to Offensive Bias though. If he is still around in some way, then he would also qualify as a Gaurdian. Possibly even more so given what he accomplished at the final battle of the Forerunners on the Ark.

Didact Suit
I think that it really be cool for Chief to get a modified Forerunner suit at some point that was customized to his, um, style? I mean it's really the next logical step from where he is now. He is still wearing his Mark VI armor.

I wonder though, if we do meet the Bornstellar Didact, what if he is wearing the "good" armor. Is he alive or do we not know yet. It's been a while since I read the books and I haven't even finished the trilogy really. However if he is alive somehow, I wonder we will get to meet him. Maybe he will give Chief the power to beat the Didact for real

Spoiler

The Anti-Gravity Gauntlet

? I doubt that the Didact we beat is actually dead. For all we know he teleported or something. I don't know. Just kind of randomly throwing out thoughts now.

---

While I was playing through CE I noticed how relatively human sized everything was. That made me wonder why the Forerunners would even make such small structures given their size. Is it only the warriors that are huge or what because it's an interesting inconsistency unless I've missed something.

Think we'll actually see that "War Sphinx" in Halo 5's Campaign? If so, on what level (in terms of interactivity)?

Personally, I hope so, but I still have yet to be blown away by anything in a Halo Campaign aside from CE and Reach's Sabre mission (it's really too bad Bungie spoiled that surprise). I really want them to do something crazy with the single player and not play it so safe. It's funny because Halo 4 got dinged for being too similar to past games, but many fans complained that it was too unlike past games.. Either way, I just want to be blown away and I think that could only happen if they drastically change things up.

I think we will meet it and that's about it. I don't see us flying it or anything but I'm sure there is something you could do to make it awesome and interactive. The thing is huge. Actually if Halo did want to go further into Mecha anime territory than it already is, maybe we really could fly it and destroy covenant (or better yet Forerunner) ships. Again though it will probably just be there and look cool while we wish we could be cool with it.

If they brought the Prototype suit to the game though, I would be soon happy.

Good to meet ya and welcome to HaloGaf!
A place full of radical dudes with a mix of different tudes.

 

[Orochinagis]

I think so too, though it would be cool to get his Blue armour to fight him, where did the Red one in Halo 4 come from? Is it the same, or just another kind of armour? Hard to say... Imagery in this clip is really, really strange.

The problem I have with fighting the construct is that in the trailer (assuming the teaser is actually from somewhere in the campaign, who knows anymore...) Chief doesn't seem to have anything with him aside from what looks like Cortana's chip and his new poncho... How is he going to fight it? I suspect he will either drive it, or speak with it. Or maybe even put the chip he has into it... Again, hard to say.

The orange led suit? Looks like he wore it to survive the brain damage by being composing and re composed and to battle the flood without being infected using long range attacks aka gravity gauntlet, wharer was right the whole time.

Fighting the sphinx involves new mechanics we haven see in a halo game yet.

I think it was also Bungie trying to capitalize on the mystery of the Forerunners without directly having you communicate with one, as well. Bias realizes that of the still-sapient life that exists in the universe, he was basically all that was left of the Forerunners in the old lore.

EDIT: OT, but I'm developing a clearer idea on the Project Livechamber logo, suggestions / comments / criticism welcome.

I still think explaining more furerunner stuff is a bad move since the audience would stop caring about them since the mistery is gone and some important plot keys were revealed and not causing such a big impact because no eveyrone have access to the novels or only care about the games.

Your logo feels like it have some 3D (blue/red) effect

 

[squidhands]

rip supersecretafterparty

indeed.

 

[Mistel]

Yeah it could be, those were old combat skins from the Human-Forerunner war, which was about 9000 years before the Flood-Forerunner war.

The whole Promethean terminology is kinda weird. You have the Warrior-Servants, which is a type of Forerunners that does battle and stuffs for the Didact. Of those, the Prometheans were at one point the best-of-the-best of the Warrior-Servants - kind of like Spartans if Warrior-Servants were the UNSC I guess. They were super smart, super fast, super strong, etc. A few of which were actually Didact and Librarians children, though all perished in the Human-Forerunner war, their essences stored within the old War Sphinxes I talked about in the post above.

The Promethean Knights, however, were composed-digital forms of those Prometheans put into those robot carapaces we see in Halo 4.

Knights themselves are weird as I assume there's only a finite amount of the digital people to go with a basically infinite resource of bodies so do they save copies or is it just one death per unit (Does death to revive count as a death if so that's two)?

 

[User 73706]

Knights themselves are weird as I assume there's only a finite amount of the digital people to go with a basically infinite resource of bodies so do they save copies or is it just one death per unit (Does death to revive count as a death if so that's two)?

I think a Composed being can be revived an infinite number of times considering the "digital soul" always lingers behind even when the body's destroyed. It's just a matter of procuring the original bodies.

 

[naeS]

How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Been a member since late 2011, Started lurking early 2011. Started school that year so was able to sign up with my school email.

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
21, posting from Missouri

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Had an Xbox since launch, bought Halo 2 in 2006. I have played all the games, and on all the platforms.

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)
Multiplayer.

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)
I enjoy BTB the most, lots of action.

AR or BR?
BR.

Highest Halo 3 level and what playlist?
35, Team Slayer I think.

Favorite Halo 2 map?
Turf

Favorite all-time Halo map?
Lockout(Blackout)

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Lots.

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.)
IT Technician, hockey, Frisbee golf.

 

[Homeboyd]

frolf.

I know what you meant but definitely check that out on urban dictionary...NSFW

 

[MrGreencastle]

Knights themselves are weird as I assume there's only a finite amount of the digital people to go with a basically infinite resource of bodies so do they save copies or is it just one death per unit (Does death to revive count as a death if so that's two)?

Yeah this is something that I was thinking about at some point... If you remember Cortana's remarks on the "de-rez" that's left by the Knights when you kill them in the Campaign:

"I've discovered something interesting about our new friends. When the big ones explode, that momentary flash we're seeing is actually a data purge."

So they are erased from some sort of storage. If they are interconnnected like other Prometheans, then perhaps they share memories and experience, and perhaps their data is stored in/transferred through a centralized location?

Also, the Composer seems to send it's information through a slipspace portal on Didact's ship, possibly sent to Requiem:

And we know that the composed "souls" are stored in Forerunner containers like this, from Spartan Ops:

And from the images shown on screen by said "composed-construct" from Spartan Ops, the people in New Phoenix, before they were composed, saw one of these larger "artifacts" of which there were at least 3 on Requiem (really wish SpOps had a theatre mode right now!). Why was one of these artifacts seen by someone who was in New Phoenix 6 months prior?

1) on the UNSC Infinity (likely found in Cauldron Base - the magma place, a Covenant dig-site). Some shots:

2) found in a location called the Harvester, the big hole you dig reveals its location inside a very, very ornate hidden area:

3) found during a cutscene in another elaborate facility on Requiem, where Majestic deactivates it:

The above artifacts are capable of a number of feats: Translating interaction between Halsey and Jul, displaying events occurring near it, transporting people from one artifact's location to anywhere on Requiem and vice versa, creating a slipspace anchor in conjunction with the other two artifacts... Just what are these things? ...Then Requiem gets thrown into the sun...? wat... is there more to this? I wonder if these artifacts are more than they appear. Maybe not.

 

[-Ryn]

I think a Composed being can be revived an infinite number of times considering the "digital soul" always lingers behind even when the body's destroyed. It's just a matter of procuring the original bodies.

Sounds majestic and beautiful.

Unfortunately it's physical form is everything but. On another not though, Halo has always had fairly hard science. This makes me wonder if there is actually some way that the forerunner composing process and the weird digi tang could be explained with real world theories and whatever. I mean I'm not scientist but I do enjoy it. It's fun when things get imaginative but also aren't too implausible.

How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Been a member since late 2011, Started lurking early 2011. Started school that year so was able to sign up with my school email.

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
21, posting from Missouri

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Had an Xbox since launch, bought Halo 2 in 2006. I have played all the games, and on all the platforms.

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)
Multiplayer.

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)
I enjoy BTB the most, lots of action.

AR or BR?
BR.

Highest Halo 3 level and what playlist?
35, Team Slayer I think.

Favorite Halo 2 map?
Turf

Favorite all-time Halo map?
Lockout(Blackout)

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Lots.

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.) IT Technician, hockey, frolf.

What's it like in Missouri? Never been.

Welcome to HaloGaf.
The Salt reserves have been running a bit low.

I know what you meant but definitely check that out on urban dictionary...NSFW

It's the little things

 

[Orochinagis]

I think a Composed being can be revived an infinite number of times considering the "digital soul" always lingers behind even when the body's destroyed. It's just a matter of procuring the original bodies.

Tell that to the Didact, he used them as a bombs to going kamikazi and destroy the infested ships.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

The depth that the halo story goes is insane. I just play the games and have no idea how far it actually goes

 

[Mix]

I know what you meant but definitely check that out on urban dictionary...NSFW

What the fuck man

 

[-Ryn]

Tell that to the Didact, he used them as a bombs to going kamikazi and destroy the infested ships.

I thought that was Offensive Bias?
Before the Didact lost his marbles I'm pretty sure he didn't hate humanity. At least not in the racist way he does now.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I thought that was Offensive Bias?
Before the Didact lost his marbles I'm pretty sure he didn't hate humanity. At least not in the racist way he does now.

I don't think you can classify the Didact as racist against humanity. He's certainly got legitimate beef with how humanity provoked a war with the Forerunners. Does his concept of the Mantle come with a sort of smug dismissal? Yeah.

He always disliked humanity, going "crazy" is more a function of desperation hardening his resolve. To him using the humans who killed many Forerunners as conscripts was eminently logical.

One interesting thing about the Halo 3 terminals, and what we see in the books and Halo 4, is that the Forerunner's use of AI seems a lot different from what we'd assume for an advanced race—basically a super-smart person in every computer. The Forerunners instead seemed to mostly use the equivalent of dumb AIs as ancillas, but truly "smart" ones like Cortana didn't commonly exist—think about how Mendicant and Offensive Bias were such big deals, and how it was apparently easier to mass-compose individuals to drive the Prometheans rather than "duped this AI code into these husks".

 

[MrGreencastle]

I thought that was Offensive Bias?
Before the Didact lost his marbles I'm pretty sure he didn't hate humanity. At least not in the racist way he does now.

Check out Halo 4 Terminals for your quote. Didact definitely uses Prometheans as suicide bombers at one point.

I don't think you can classify the Didact as racist against humanity. He's certainly got legitimate beef with how humanity provoked a war with the Forerunners. Does his concept of the Mantle come with a sort of smug dismissal? Yeah.

He always disliked humanity, going "crazy" is more a function of desperation hardening his resolve. To him using the humans who killed many Forerunners as conscripts was eminently logical.

One interesting thing about the Halo 3 terminals, and what we see in the books and Halo 4, is that the Forerunner's use of AI seems a lot different from what we'd assume for an advanced race—basically a super-smart person in every computer. The Forerunners instead seemed to mostly use the equivalent of dumb AIs as ancillas, but truly "smart" ones like Cortana didn't commonly exist—think about how Mendicant and Offensive Bias were such big deals, and how it was apparently easier to mass-compose individuals to drive the Prometheans rather than "duped this AI code into these husks".

It IS interesting. Even Didact refers to Cortana as an "evolved Ancilla", almost as if she was a secret kept from him - Librarian even says Cortana, like Chief, is the result of a 1000 lifetimes of planning. Also interesting is the Covenant don't really seem to have advanced AIs, either. Could be a religious thing within the Covenant or otherwise. There are very few instances when Cortana interacts with them (I think twice). One on the Ascendant Justice, where she even recognizes the underlying code! Another we see in Halo CEA terminals where 343GS scolds one, presumably the AI of Truth and Reconciliation. And the last is known as Seeker, from i love bees. There's a bit more to this...

Spoiler

Hmm... Luminaries... Crystals...Shards...Artifacts...Fractals...Mendicant...Recessive...Seed... Don't mind me!

 

[iMax]

I know what you meant but definitely check that out on urban dictionary...NSFW

 

[naeS]

I know what you meant but definitely check that out on urban dictionary...NSFW

Yeah, I'll go ahead and change that to avoid further confusion. Thanks haha

What's it like in Missouri? Never been.

Welcome to HaloGaf.
The Salt reserves have been running a bit low.

It's the little things

It's not bad, I live outside St. Louis, plenty of stuff to do. Stick to STL or KC side, otherwise it's boring. Haven't been to many other cities/states so hard to do a comparison.

 

[GringoSuave89]

I thought that was Offensive Bias?
Before the Didact lost his marbles I'm pretty sure he didn't hate humanity. At least not in the racist way he does now.

If I remember right, he just didn't think we deserved the Mantle. After he went crazy/the death of his children, THEN he hated humanity.

 

[Fuchsdh]

It IS interesting. Even Didact refers to Cortana as an "evolved Ancilla", almost as if she was a secret kept from him - Librarian even says Cortana, like Chief, is the result of a 1000 lifetimes of planning. Also interesting is the Covenant don't really seem to have advanced AIs, either. Could be a religious thing within the Covenant or otherwise. There are very few instances when Cortana interacts with them (I think twice). One on the Ascendant Justice, where she even recognizes the underlying code! Another we see in Halo CEA terminals where 343GS scolds one, presumably the AI of Truth and Reconciliation. And the last is known as Seeker, from i love bees. There's a bit more to this...

Spoiler

Hmm... Luminaries... Crystals...Shards...Artifacts...Fractals...Mendicant...Recessive...Seed... Don't mind me!

Well if we take it that "smart" AIs like the monitors were rare in Forerunner times (or at the very least, as we learn more about 343GS, "true digital" AIs seemed to be) it makes sense that the Covenant wouldn't have much in the way of AI--they'd have to find the tech to reverse-engineer it, and a dearth of AIs to deconstruct means little in the way of advances.

I've taken the CEA terminals as that when the Covenant *did* have AIs they might have been ripped off of Forerunner ones--the terminal really made me think that it was an enslaved AI who was getting "revenge" on its captors by trying to make them release the Flood.

Rampant speculation: The Covenant AI in the CEA terminal is what's left of Abject Testament.

 

[Kibbles]

I hope there is 360 controller support on the Xbox One by the time the MCC comes out :S I wasn't feeling H2V with the XB1 controller.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Part of the reason why the Covenant don't have many Forerunner AIs to work off of, and why the Didact went a bit nuts, is one of the cooler aspects of the Flood: the Logic Plague. Most of the Forerunner AIs would have been either subverted or destroyed (or both), and the Didact's interaction with the Gravemind is part of what drove him over the edge.

I hope there is 360 controller support on the Xbox One by the time the MCC comes out :S I wasn't feeling H2V with the XB1 controller.

It grows on you. I really can't go back to the 360 controllers at this point.

 

[Orochinagis]

It IS interesting. Even Didact refers to Cortana as an "evolved Ancilla", almost as if she was a secret kept from him - Librarian even says Cortana, like Chief, is the result of a 1000 lifetimes of planning. Also interesting is the Covenant don't really seem to have advanced AIs, either. Could be a religious thing within the Covenant or otherwise. There are very few instances when Cortana interacts with them (I think twice). One on the Ascendant Justice, where she even recognizes the underlying code! Another we see in Halo CEA terminals where 343GS scolds one, presumably the AI of Truth and Reconciliation. And the last is known as Seeker, from i love bees. There's a bit more to this...

Spoiler

Hmm... Luminaries... Crystals...Shards...Artifacts...Fractals...Mendicant...Recessive...Seed... Don't mind me!

Well most of the covenant tech was for bad reverse tech of forerunner artifacts and huragok assistance while humanity pretty much sacrified itself to do their tech, the libarian IA confirms humanity is reaching their ancient heritage technology but for chief physiology.

 

[Computer]

I just wanted to say that its a great time to be a Halo fan. So much Halo content and hype. Games, A Movie, Tv show, Pros coming out of retirement, And hype from old Halo friends. Thank you 343.

 

[Mistel]

I think a Composed being can be revived an infinite number of times considering the "digital soul" always lingers behind even when the body's destroyed. It's just a matter of procuring the original bodies.

The little glowy ball things they leave behind are only able to be revived via a watcher once so I assume they break after and are purged from what ever system they exist in.

Yeah this is something that I was thinking about at some point... So they are erased from some sort of storage. If they are interconnnected like other Prometheans, then perhaps they share memories and experience, and perhaps their data is stored in/transferred through a centralized location?

I assume that they are stored within a system that allows them to learn and adapt from their deaths so the next version of the knight person soul thingy acts more efficiently. I assume the purge is so they don't use outdated info maybe? Like a little dominion except localized and with robot knights.

Not sure what to make of the box things other than they seem to be dea ex machina plot wise to me.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Well most of the covenant tech was for bad reverse tech of forerunner artifacts and huragok assistance while humanity pretty much sacrified itself to do their tech, the libarian IA confirms humanity is reaching their ancient heritage technology but for chief physiology.

Well if we take it that "smart" AIs like the monitors were rare in Forerunner times (or at the very least, as we learn more about 343GS, "true digital" AIs seemed to be) it makes sense that the Covenant wouldn't have much in the way of AI--they'd have to find the tech to reverse-engineer it, and a dearth of AIs to deconstruct means little in the way of advances.

I've taken the CEA terminals as that when the Covenant *did* have AIs they might have been ripped off of Forerunner ones--the terminal really made me think that it was an enslaved AI who was getting "revenge" on its captors by trying to make them release the Flood.

Rampant speculation: The Covenant AI in the CEA terminal is what's left of Abject Testament.

Interesting speculation. Personally, I like to think the Covenant reverse-engineered Monitors to use as their ship Luminaries. There's a bit more to add, though I'm leaving that for a future post in the lore thread. This part of the fiction interests me immensely. Maybe Cortana is based on very similar coding as the Monitors? Maybe Halsey didn't use only her inventions here when she created her...? Maybe Cortana was the source of copied code that the Covenant stole? Who knows?

edit: my own rampant speculation: Covenant AI are derived from copies of Mendicant Bias, or at least, the bit of MB that was on the Dreadnought in High Charity.

Interestingly, I read today on the Cryptum Glossary page on Waypoint, these 3 stuck out to me in a row, concerning Mendicant Bias:

MENDICANT BIAS–A tremendously powerful Contender-class ancilla designed to coordinate control of the Halo installations under authorization of the Council and the Master Builder.
METARCH–A hyper-advanced level of ancilla in the exclusive service of the Council, with less than five in existence at any given time.
METARCHY–An unimaginably vast network used by ancilla, ultimately coordinated by a single metarch-level intelligence which reports directly to the chief councilor.

Ok so, we know that Mendicant Bias (05-032) is a Contender-class ancilla, which is the highest of the Metarch-level of ancillas (of which there would less than 5 at any given time). So Mendicant at one point was in control of most of Forerunner society through his Metarchy (which could exists in countless numbers of ships) before and after going rampant. Just something to think about, anyway, concerning his so-called burial and seeming reawakening during Halo 3's events as we see in the terminals...

Just for fun, I'm going to assume that Offensive Bias' designation was either 04-016, if they get replacement designations, or since he was made after Mendicant, 06-064.

--

Thinking about it, your rampant speculation reminds me, Fred Tatasciore voiced both 049 and the Covenant AI in the Terminals (also did Saren in Mass Effect). It would hilarious if it were that simple

 

[Orochinagis]

The little glowy ball things they leave behind are only able to be revived via a watcher once so I assume they break after and are purged from what ever system they exist in.


I assume that they are stored within a system that allows them to learn and adapt from their deaths so the next version of the knight person soul thingy acts more efficiently. I assume the purge is so they don't use outdated info maybe? Like a little dominion except localized and with robot knights.

Not sure what to make of the box things other than they seem to be dea ex machina plot wise to me.

Dyson sphere huh? Too bad its minds dies if the watcher dont recolect them in time. Cortana stand by mode have a similar form in Halo 4

Reminds me of the geth.

 

[-Ryn]

I don't think you can classify the Didact as racist against humanity. He's certainly got legitimate beef with how humanity provoked a war with the Forerunners. Does his concept of the Mantle come with a sort of smug dismissal? Yeah.

He always disliked humanity, going "crazy" is more a function of desperation hardening his resolve. To him using the humans who killed many Forerunners as conscripts was eminently logical.

If I remember right, he just didn't think we deserved the Mantle. After he went crazy/the death of his children, THEN he hated humanity.

Check out Halo 4 Terminals for your quote. Didact definitely uses Prometheans as suicide bombers at one point.

Didact's Superiority... Thing
I suppose racist may not be the right word.
He used to simply hate humans because of things they'd done to not only the Forerunners, but also to his own family. However he understood and had a sort of respect for them. He also realized what they had done to them, and even showed pity and regret at certain points for how extreme it was.

However after his "conversation" with the Gravemind, he slowly began to lose his sanity. He became less and less of who he once was and instead became obsessed with the Mantle. He views humanity and everything else as "beneath" the Forerunners which I guess I looked at as racist. The point of the Mantle I thought wasn't necessarily about being a superior race so much as being responsible for watching over everyone as a sort of, well, Gaurdian.

In the end though I guess a smug superiority complex isn't racist per say. He did seem to slowly acknowledge Chief as an actual equal in battle. However what bugs me is his treatment of an entire species based off of some insane bias. Though I guess that's just it. It's insane. Maybe I'm reading into his previous behavior too much or I might just have misinterpreted his character. *shrugs*

One interesting thing about the Halo 3 terminals, and what we see in the books and Halo 4, is that the Forerunner's use of AI seems a lot different from what we'd assume for an advanced race—basically a super-smart person in every computer. The Forerunners instead seemed to mostly use the equivalent of dumb AIs as ancillas, but truly "smart" ones like Cortana didn't commonly exist—think about how Mendicant and Offensive Bias were such big deals, and how it was apparently easier to mass-compose individuals to drive the Prometheans rather than "duped this AI code into these husks".

It IS interesting. Even Didact refers to Cortana as an "evolved Ancilla", almost as if she was a secret kept from him - Librarian even says Cortana, like Chief, is the result of a 1000 lifetimes of planning. Also interesting is the Covenant don't really seem to have advanced AIs, either. Could be a religious thing within the Covenant or otherwise. There are very few instances when Cortana interacts with them (I think twice). One on the Ascendant Justice, where she even recognizes the underlying code! Another we see in Halo CEA terminals where 343GS scolds one, presumably the AI of Truth and Reconciliation. And the last is known as Seeker, from i love bees. There's a bit more to this...

Spoiler

Hmm... Luminaries... Crystals...Shards...Artifacts...Fractals...Mendicant...Recessive...Seed... Don't mind me!

AI's are Badass

Spoiler

and rather interesting

It's actually really cool how the Forerunners did it. The idea that their "smart AI" were such hyper advanced beings just blows me away. It's one of the reasons I hope we get to see more of Mendicant Bias. If he became "trans-sentient" then that would probably make him the most advanced AI in the series. I want to see what he plans to do or what he thinks of the situation at hand because I find his character very interesting. He's really tragic.

The Covenant not having very advanced AI makes sense given that Elites are very opposed to tampering to much with Forerunner tech. Since most if not all their own systems and tech are reverse engineered from the Forerunners though, it probably isn't too far fetched that their own AI could be a fragment of some Forerunner AI.

The fact that Cortana is apparently part of such a huge period of planning is a major reason as to why I think she isn't really dead. At least not entirely. She might be mostly dead. Get some digital chocolate.

Spoiler

I'll stop now

I wonder how advanced she is though compared to Mendicant though. As you guys mentioned earlier, he was one of the SUPER AI. AI that were extremely far beyond any other AI humanity has developed in the series. Yeah Cortana is special, but is the fact that she was created from a living brain all it took to make her so brilliant? If she is still alive, I wonder if she too still has an evolution to go through...

Part of the reason why the Covenant don't have many Forerunner AIs to work off of, and why the Didact went a bit nuts, is one of the cooler aspects of the Flood: the Logic Plague. Most of the Forerunner AIs would have been either subverted or destroyed (or both), and the Didact's interaction with the Gravemind is part of what drove him over the edge.

The Gravemind is basically a giant tentacle monster.
Mind rape is child's play for him.

Spoiler

It really is fascinating though

It's not bad, I live outside St. Louis, plenty of stuff to do. Stick to STL or KC side, otherwise it's boring. Haven't been to many other cities/states so hard to do a comparison.

Cool. I've traveled around most of the west side of the states but that's about it. Really want to check out some other countries.

Wish I could say the same about there being plenty to do. I'm in between jobs right now so that might be part of the reason for the boredom though lol

---

Mobile Mega Posts

Spoiler

They Suck

 

[Mix]

Frankie/Tashi
Do you guys know who from 343 is going to RTX?

 

[NobleGundam]

I wonder if 343 will show off some H2A forge mode using one of the anniversary maps at RTX.

 

[Orochinagis]

Didact's Superiority... Thing
I suppose racist may not be the right word.

Take in mind the possibility of letting their main belief, The mantle, to a completely foreign race. Its not just a title but letting them to be the lead race for the time being moving the forerunners to a lower class race. You wont lend such power to a race you didnt know about.

And cortana was reaching the pinnacle of using real human cells on IA to be more complex but still falling to the 7 life year cicle.

is there lore about the ancient humanity using IAs?

EDIT: Now I remember the forerunners wanted to give them the mantle just because they were fighting the flood? wooooot, team didact

 

[Mistel]

Dyson sphere huh? Too bad its minds dies if the watcher dont recolect them in time. Cortana stand by mode have a similar form in Halo 4

Reminds me of the geth.

Dyson sphere's exist as shield worlds such as 459 in wars and requiem they might be stored in a variation of them maybe like a conservation sphere?. The knights seem to use swarm behavior like really advanced swarm robotics much like the Geth.

 

[NobleGundam]

Prometheans > Geth

 

[Orochinagis]

Dyson sphere's exist as shield worlds such as 459 in wars and requiem they might be stored in a variation of them maybe like a conservation sphere?. The knights seem to use swarm behavior like really advanced swarm robotics much like the Geth.

Looks like they sleep in their armor bodies instead of a storage server, could be the forerunners were slowly moving to rely on IAs after the flood attacks and using the traditional manpower in their military in previous conflicts.

Prometheans > Geth

Mmmm no, the geth gets more intelligent the more they are, the prometheans knights have no intelligence at all unless the leader unit gives them a command they are pretty dormant.

EDIT: Oh you mean the promethean warriors, no idea but hey, they had lightsabers

 

[Fuchsdh]

I wonder if 343 will show off some H2A forge mode using one of the anniversary maps at RTX.

Interesting speculation. Personally, I like to think the Covenant reverse-engineered Monitors to use as their ship Luminaries. There's a bit more to add, though I'm leaving that for a future post in the lore thread. This part of the fiction interests me immensely. Maybe Cortana is based on very similar coding as the Monitors? Maybe Halsey didn't use only her inventions here when she created her...? Maybe Cortana was the source of copied code that the Covenant stole? Who knows?

edit: my own rampant speculation: Covenant AI are derived from copies of Mendicant Bias, or at least, the bit of MB that was on the Dreadnought in High Charity.

Interestingly, I read today on the Cryptum Glossary page on Waypoint, these 3 stuck out to me in a row, concerning Mendicant Bias:



Ok so, we know that Mendicant Bias (05-032) is a Contender-class ancilla, which is the highest of the Metarch-level of ancillas (of which there would less than 5 at any given time). So Mendicant at one point was in control of most of Forerunner society through his Metarchy (which could exists in countless numbers of ships) before and after going rampant. Just something to think about, anyway, concerning his so-called burial and seeming reawakening during Halo 3's events as we see in the terminals...

Just for fun, I'm going to assume that Offensive Bias' designation was either 04-016, if they get replacement designations, or since he was made after Mendicant, 06-064.

--

Thinking about it, your rampant speculation reminds me, Fred Tatasciore voiced both 049 and the Covenant AI in the Terminals (also did Saren in Mass Effect). It would hilarious if it were that simple

Hmm, making copies from MB would also be plausible, but you'd think that the Prophets would consider that a highly dangerous game--you shut off the oracle to prevent it from blowing up your entire society, how would you prevent copies from doing the same? Would it be worth the risk?

The line about Cortana and the Covenant AI is one of the few "great mysteries" remaining from the Bungie era, IMO, especially after Greg Bear tied up so much stuff so brilliantly in Glasslands. It feels like it was supposed to be the start of a thread that... never appeared in Halo 2 or 3. Reading it the implication is that somehow Cortana was ripped off, but I don't see any chance the Covenant would have had to do that (she was a new AI at the time of Halo, and clearly they didn't somehow partially reverse-engineer her in the matter of days and then deploy a new AI on a new ship far away from Halo.)

I really have no idea what the thread *could* have meant, but taken in context of 343's continuing story, maybe it is a bit simpler--that both were inspired or drawn from Forerunner AIs, or perhaps that at some point AIs might share a similarity that comes from their advanced nature.

Here's another, more pedestrian, thought: what if the similarity Cortana notes is because the Covenant *did* capture a human AI at some point? "Midnight at the Heart of Midlothian" makes it pretty clear there were some Covenant special ops that seemed designed to gather intel and valuable matériel like AIs. Perhaps they managed to capture one or even a fragment of one that survived enactment of Cole Protocol, and that's how they worked out what they got on the Ascendant Justice?

 

[NobleGundam]

Mmmm no, the geth gets more intelligent the more they are, the prometheans knights have no inteligence at all unless the leader unit gives them a command they are pretty dormant.

Didact > Sovereign