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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.

Aggrotek

Aggrotek

Member
Someone remembers me? I feel honored.

In all seriousness, I lost all my interest in the franchise a while back.
Then they announced H2 multiplayer...

FIqxMb2.gif
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Fuchsdh said:
I'm weird like that, I guess.
Click to expand...

Eh, I love joining a losing game and turning it around for a win. It's so beast like just to sit in the post game carnage and bask in your glorious underdog win. Hearing those whispers of how in the hell did they do that. It's even more tasty when you do it solo.

It's not really worth it overall.

JiP is the result of quitters and lobby backouts, cut that shit out both on the developer side and player actions. Stay in a game you lost you pussies :)

On the serious side quitting is at absolute epidemic proportions and has been for a long time, when was the last game of matchmaking you had where you didn't have at least one quitter? It wasn't much better in Halo 2 with derankers, cheaters and quitters, Halo 3 ranked had plenty of quitters and host booting etc too and so does Reach and 4. No wonder JiP was developed. The implementation these days is much better than at launch though.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
Fuchsdh said:
Sure. I really don't take losing badly. I like trying to eke out a flag cap or prevent the other team from winning outright as long as possible. Personal bests and all that.
Click to expand...
It's not about losing though. And it's not about this stupid "epic comeback" concept.

It's about actually getting a game that I can play in its entirety, with equal starts (to the extent that a particular Halo allows) with both teams given the same chance to succeed. I'd rather not waste my time on JIP bullshit. I would much prefer waiting a couple minutes for a fresh match than taking the place of some sore loser in a match where I'm at a disadvantage from the get-go.

My most memorable Halo matches were epic comebacks, but they weren't made so artificially. They were made through mine and my teammates efforts against another team. Our decisions and game play decided the outcome and it was extremely rewarding and exciting. Close losses are similarly exciting, but when I had no influence on much of the outcome, I couldn't give a shit.

JIP should only exist to put people back into games after they quit. If you wanna quit, you should be made to wait until the match is done. But players' experiences shouldn't be sacrificed for matchmaking expediency.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
I still don't understand how joining a game almost right when it ends was such a common thing.

JIP has no place in competitive playlists.
 
G

GringoSuave89

Banned
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
YourExWife said:
It's not about losing though. And it's not about this stupid "epic comeback" concept.

It's about actually getting a game that I can play in its entirety, with equal starts (to the extent that a particular Halo allows) with both teams given the same chance to succeed. I'd rather not waste my time on JIP bullshit. I would much prefer waiting a couple minutes for a fresh match than taking the place of some sore loser in a match where I'm at a disadvantage from the get-go.

My most memorable Halo matches were epic comebacks, but they weren't made so artificially. They were made through mine and my teammates efforts against another team. Our decisions and game play decided the outcome and it was extremely rewarding and exciting. Close losses are similarly exciting, but when I had no influence on much of the outcome, I couldn't give a shit.

JIP should only exist to put people back into games after they quit. If you wanna quit, you should be made to wait until the match is done. But players' experiences shouldn't be sacrificed for matchmaking expediency.
Click to expand...

4v4 ranked I agree no JiP, ranked BTB or social playlists it should be present. Quitting sucks. There is another side to the coin of your argument. You can't sit there and straight face tell me you don't enjoy JiP when you've started a full even game, and pushed out a lead with a flag cap in the first minute or a 10-0 slayer lead, to have 1 or 2 enemies quit but get "saved" by JiP within the first couple of minutes so you can actually finish out the entire game as balanced.

Launch JiP was all over the place, more recently it's improved through sustain and limited per playlist.
 
G

GringoSuave89

Banned
YourExWife said:
It's not about losing though. And it's not about this stupid "epic comeback" concept.

It's about actually getting a game that I can play in its entirety, with equal starts (to the extent that a particular Halo allows) with both teams given the same chance to succeed. I'd rather not waste my time on JIP bullshit. I would much prefer waiting a couple minutes for a fresh match than taking the place of some sore loser in a match where I'm at a disadvantage from the get-go.

My most memorable Halo matches were epic comebacks, but they weren't made so artificially. They were made through mine and my teammates efforts against another team. Our decisions and game play decided the outcome and it was extremely rewarding and exciting. Close losses are similarly exciting, but when I had no influence on much of the outcome, I couldn't give a shit.

JIP should only exist to put people back into games after they quit. If you wanna quit, you should be made to wait until the match is done. But players' experiences shouldn't be sacrificed for matchmaking expediency.
Click to expand...

I really feel that there should be penalties enacted for leaving games early, a la CSGO. That, or for the Xbox player feedback system to actually impact how matchmaking works.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
I put Reach to play a little (couldnt find storm to play), played some firefight matches and it was wonderfull, I really hope FF return in Halo 5 or some sort of spec ops or survival gametype.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
4v4 ranked I agree no JiP, ranked BTB or social playlists it should be present. Quitting sucks. There is another side to the coin of your argument. You can't sit there and straight face tell me you don't enjoy JiP when you've started a full even game, and pushed out a lead with a flag cap in the first minute or a 10-0 slayer lead, to have 1 or 2 enemies quit but get "saved" by JiP within the first couple of minutes so you can actually finish out the entire game as balanced.

Launch JiP was all over the place, more recently it's improved through sustain and limited per playlist.
Click to expand...

What does ranked mean? Pretty sure that concept doesn't exist in the only halo game with JIP.

And no matter what you say, JIP is still stupid, even in its current implementation. I currently have a straight face and I'm telling you that JIP still sucks when the other team is constantly swapped out during the match, even due to early scoring. Why does it suck? Because I wasn't playing those people, and, due to the nature of Halo, any real effort I put into the match is unnecessary, even if the people who JIP are decent.

Say CTF we score in the first minute. Half of the other team quits. At a minimum, it takes a full 30 seconds or more for their replacements to actually get in the game. In that time, we've easily scored again (at least once, if not more), and we have map control and the power weapons. What if we score twice and it's a game where 3 caps wins? Well JIP is just wasting everyone's time at that point, but under current conditions, it just won't happen because you've passed the halfway point in scoring anyway! Congratulations! It's like JIP was never there anyway!

In short, fuck JIP, ranked and social alike. The only thing it's managed to do is increase the amount of quitters even more than deranking / boosting made possible. That's a feat in and of itself I suppose.
 
O

Omni

Member
Hahaha

Playing some Reach BTB. I got the sniper and four of my teammates tried to betray me. So... I shoot all the ammo into the ground. Eventually they kill me which is kinda frustrating. But then I decide to have some fun. The rest of my match consists of me running for the sniper at spawn and shooting all the rounds into the ground. Just to piss them off (they weren't in a party or anything. Just wanted the sniper and were killing themselves for it)

Ended up booting three players after baiting them into betraying me a couple of times each.

I haven't played like such an asshole in a long time. The hate messages afterwards are just wonderful
 
M

Mistel

Banned
Orochinagis said:
I put Reach to play a little (couldnt find storm to play), played some firefight matches and it was wonderfull, I really hope FF return in Halo 5 or some sort of spec ops or survival gametype.
Click to expand...
Helps if you mention wanting to play with me, just a tiny tiny bit. :p

I play 4 once in a while don't mind playing with others.
 
B

belushy

Banned
randomrosso said:
Hahaha

Playing some Reach BTB. I got the sniper and four of my teammates tried to betray me. So... I shoot all the ammo into the ground. Eventually they kill me which is kinda frustrating. But then I decide to have some fun. The rest of my match consists of me running for the sniper at spawn and shooting all the rounds into the ground. Just to piss them off (they weren't in a party or anything. Just wanted the sniper and were killing themselves for it)

Ended up booting three players after baiting them into betraying me a couple of times each.

I haven't played like such an asshole in a long time. The hate messages afterwards are just wonderful
Click to expand...

I was playing Reach MLG yesterday and my own teammate teabagged me after I got out sniped on Sanctuary. I guess he was just camping behind me the whole time until it happened just to get the sniper.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
YourExWife said:
What does ranked mean? Pretty sure that concept doesn't exist in the only halo game with JIP.

And no matter what you say, JIP is still stupid, even in its current implementation. I currently have a straight face and I'm telling you that JIP still sucks when the other team is constantly swapped out during the match, even due to early scoring. Why does it suck? Because I wasn't playing those people, and, due to the nature of Halo, any real effort I put into the match is unnecessary, even if the people who JIP are decent.

Say CTF we score in the first minute. Half of the other team quits. At a minimum, it takes a full 30 seconds or more for their replacements to actually get in the game. In that time, we've easily scored again (at least once, if not more), and we have map control and the power weapons. What if we score twice and it's a game where 3 caps wins? Well JIP is just wasting everyone's time at that point, but under current conditions, it just won't happen because you've passed the halfway point in scoring anyway! Congratulations! It's like JIP was never there anyway!

In short, fuck JIP, ranked and social alike. The only thing it's managed to do is increase the amount of quitters even more than deranking / boosting made possible. That's a feat in and of itself I suppose.
Click to expand...

Ranked as in looking forward e.g. Guardians. Any how so what's the solution? Deal with quitting very harshly to stem it as much as possible and only provide JiP for large player count playlists or social ones?

I think that's quite workable. Quit in ranked = severe punishment as in you can't play ranked matchmaking until that game finishes. Quit in social = existing quit ban system (sort of a 3 strikes per day/hours rule) but can join back to matchmaking right away after quite.

Also introduce a team vote surrender option when 2 or more players quit? This would help cut off games that are completely crap and return players to hopper pools.

I suppose I still feel like player map/gametype toggles and filters help alleviate quits too.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Ranked as in looking forward e.g. Guardians. Any how so what's the solution? Deal with quitting very harshly to stem it as much as possible and only provide JiP for large player count playlists or social ones?

I think that's quite workable. Quit in ranked = severe punishment as in you can't play ranked matchmaking until that game finishes. Quit in social = existing quit ban system (sort of a 3 strikes per day/hours rule) but can join back to matchmaking right away after quite.

Also introduce a team vote surrender option when 2 or more players quit? This would help cut off games that are completely crap and return players to hopper pools.

I suppose I still feel like player map/gametype toggles and filters help alleviate quits too.
Click to expand...

It's almost like I put in my suggestion for JIP and you just ignored it...weird...

DON'T WORRY I'M SURE NONE OF THIS WILL MATTER CUZ DEDIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Ranked as in looking forward e.g. Guardians. Any how so what's the solution? Deal with quitting very harshly to stem it as much as possible and only provide JiP for large player count playlists or social ones?

I think that's quite workable. Quit in ranked = severe punishment as in you can't play ranked matchmaking until that game finishes. Quit in social = existing quit ban system (sort of a 3 strikes per day/hours rule) but can join back to matchmaking right away after quite.

Also introduce a team vote surrender option when 2 or more players quit? This would help cut off games that are completely crap and return players to hopper pools.

I suppose I still feel like player map/gametype toggles and filters help alleviate quits too.
Click to expand...
Yup, all those ideas are great, and definitely preferable over JIP.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
I see people bring up the Surrender option, but how are you going to incorporate that into the UI? You can't dedicate a button to it; the controller is already at its max. If you put it in the start menu, you're forcing people to stop playing the game to say "I don't want to play anymore". Then what do you do once your team has started voting to surrender? Bring in a message that goes unnoticed in the kill feed or pop up another annoying UI element that tells people of incoming surrenders? Do you alert the enemy team of a surrender, letting them know that the match is getting cut short?

Ignoring UI issues, you also run the risk of parties abusing it. Say Party 1 runs 3 people and enters the 4v4 playlist. Player A in Party 1 quits and the other members of Party 1 vote to surrender. You just screwed over that fourth player. It's not a viable solution on consoles yet.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
YourExWife said:
It's almost like I put in my suggestion for JIP and you just ignored it...weird...

DON'T WORRY I'M SURE NONE OF THIS WILL MATTER CUZ DEDIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Sure I read that top of page last sentence, I guess I didn't feel it fleshed out that much.

Now now, snide remarks aside dedis will fix a hell-of-a-fucking-lot with regards to quitters:

  1. black screen & host migration
  2. game/player/rank statistics
  3. cheating e.g. host booting

These are no small things to brush aside, Halo 4 has so many host migrations due to quitters. I still don't understand how a regular team of 5-8 BTB players all living in the same state and have played together for years and game versions still don't pull host over teams of randoms time and time again. It's sad really and I can't wait for dedis, black screen sucks.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
You'd have to have a minimum score gap before it becomes enabled.

If I were scripting gametypes, I'd just script a mercy rule option into all Slayer gametypes. Set it to +20 +30 +40 or +50 and the other team automatically wins.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Sure I read that top of page last sentence, I guess I didn't feel it fleshed out that much.
Click to expand...

What else is there to flesh out? Get rid of it other than that case. Everything else JIP doesn't belong in Halo.

I'm not even getting into this whole dedis thing with you because nothing anyone says that involved actual experience with the actual dedis in question has ever influenced you or changed your mind. You're the dediz meme at this point. Of the things you mentioned, only host migrating/boosting should ever be an issue without dedis. The rest is laziness or not-in-the-game-ness.

Apparently you're completely unaware of how hosts are actually chosen in these games or you'd already know why your supergroup doesn't get chosen. Probably the only thing that actually matters that dedis WILL fix will be playing against foreign connections as often. Unless that's not a default position in which case it won't feel that different.
 
M

Madness

Member
randomrosso said:
Hahaha

Playing some Reach BTB. I got the sniper and four of my teammates tried to betray me. So... I shoot all the ammo into the ground. Eventually they kill me which is kinda frustrating. But then I decide to have some fun. The rest of my match consists of me running for the sniper at spawn and shooting all the rounds into the ground. Just to piss them off (they weren't in a party or anything. Just wanted the sniper and were killing themselves for it)

Ended up booting three players after baiting them into betraying me a couple of times each.

I haven't played like such an asshole in a long time. The hate messages afterwards are just wonderful
Click to expand...

There has to be a reason for this. More shitheads with the game and consoles? Of course you had griefers and betrayers and trolls in every game. But every iteration has been worse. Reach was pathetic in that from launch day, I was getting betrayed for power weapons, vehicles, being sworn at in voice chat. General griefing or trollish behavior. It's something that 343 eventually removed altogether taking off friendly fire. Why is that? Voice chat is so bad/useless I had it off for all games since 2010.

Maybe it's ranks and lack of repercussion? Maybe it betrayals were front and center in your profile, or there was some kind of stat about how many times you shot at your own teammates it would lessen?
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
YourExWife said:
What else is there to flesh out? Get rid of it other than that case. Everything else JIP doesn't belong in Halo.

I'm not even getting into this whole dedis thing with you because nothing anyone says that involved actual experience with the actual dedis in question has ever influenced you or changed your mind. You're the dediz meme at this point. Of the things you mentioned, only host migrating/boosting should ever be an issue without dedis. The rest is laziness or not-in-the-game-ness.

Apparently you're completely unaware of how hosts are actually chosen in these games or you'd already know why your supergroup doesn't get chosen. Probably the only thing that actually matters that dedis WILL fix will be playing against foreign connections as often. Unless that's not a default position in which case it won't feel that different.
Click to expand...

Can you take that knife out my back now :)
 
D

Dub117

Member
I have had a very limited few games where I have came back after a teammate quitting, because we were losing, and came back and won, (reach and 3, didn't play 2 online as much) and it is much more satisfying than JIP come in and boost the score. Those 49-50s should be cherished. Even when your 3 on 4 gets the 49. My opinion, of course.
Halo
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Can you take that knife out my back now :)
Click to expand...

What a timely example. Just now, we're in a game of Oddball. This playlist has a team size of 5. We have 5 people in our party (myself, mastrbiggy, daedalius, booties, Gods Demonator). We get join in progress. Something that should never happen when your party size is the max team size for a playlist. This isn't the first time this has happened, usually means the whole team quit and we just get subbed in. Guess what happens? WE JOIN ON BOTH TEAMS!

JIP is the fucking stupidest thing about current Halo next to Armor abilities and loadouts and should be taken behind the barn and shot.

bAXULh9.jpg


I rest my fucking case.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
YourExWife said:
I rest my fucking case.
Click to expand...

Yep that's a shitty example alright, a party shouldn't get split between teams when searching. I've found less shit and more win in CTF and BTB, what playlist are you in at the moment? I don't recall having a split JiP party in BTB, perhaps there are playlist variables at work here or you're just on the JiP shit list mate.
 
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