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[BlackTron]

For all we know terrorists are flooding in to do an attack us. So yes, our own border should very obviously come before anything else.

Like what else do you expect? Americans obviously care are about America over other countries.

No matter how you slice it, supporting Israel and Ukraine has nothing to do with your problems. And even if they did, whining "boo hoo my problems are more important" is the same situation as standing by while the Holocaust took place.

The border should be secured. That has no bearing however on our tactical relationship with Israel or Ukraine which are important regardless of it.

 

[bbmcgee]

Dude fuck him not worth having an argument with an alt, They have 82 posts in well over 3 years... 81 in this thread bugging people lol

I've been on board with the thread about Israel/hamas.

But sorry, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to not see the side of other opinions.

Wild to suggest the American southern border doesn't matter as much as Ukraine.

 

[bbmcgee]

Yeah and if you had it your way, you'd be getting those terrorists breaking down your door a lot faster than you think. America is not a bubble, all of this directly impacts you too. Whether you like it or not.

I understand that. I'm just saying, if you don't even care about unchecked people coming in directly to our country, its harder to see how these conflicts oceans away are to be taken as seriously

 

[darkangel-212559]

I've been on board with the thread about Israel/hamas.

But sorry, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to not see the side of other opinions.

Wild to suggest the American southern border doesn't matter as much as Ukraine.

Very moral and ethical of you. Screw everyone else and who cares how many get slaughtered. As long as you can sit in your little fantasy bubble world where the only thing that matters is America with zero understanding of those dangerous consequences, then nothing else matters, right?

Unbelievable.

 

[bbmcgee]

No matter how you slice it, supporting Israel and Ukraine has nothing to do with your problems. And even if they did, whining "boo hoo my problems are more important" is the same situation as standing by while the Holocaust took place.

The border should be secured. That has no bearing however on our tactical relationship with Israel or Ukraine which are important regardless of it.

I never said that foreign aid is causing these problems. Obviously not.

All im saying is that these other issues that have a bigger impact on the everyday lives of average Americans have been largely ignore for so long that many of them have a hard time caring about Ukraine.

That's it.

 

[darkangel-212559]

I understand that. I'm just saying, if you don't even care about unchecked people coming in directly to our country, its harder to see how these conflicts oceans away are to be taken as seriously

Because you can bet that Hamas or Russia would be after your head if nothing was stopped. It's a fact. These animals want YOU and your family dead too.

 

[lostinblue]

Hell, as a black American I get told my people don't deserve reparations for the crimes committed against us. But Israel, Ukraine deserves billions of our money unquestioned? Fuck off. And I support Israel but its still unbalanced bullshit.

This is relevant in regards to any "reparation" in the world.

How do you compensate people for the destruction they suffered years ago? The answer is you don't.

Also Germany didn't pay for the reconstruction after WW2 or they would be indebted forever, nor will Russia pay for any destruction they inflict; nor will Israel.

That said, I don't really agree with indignation over "helping" (naturally, by help as a country you give what you can, not more than you can afford to - and if you do cracks start to appear - but bare in mind America is being a bit like Iran, they're partaking in all these wars but not contributing directly, which saves a lot of money and citizen lives; they're probably still saving money in all this).

I'm certainly not pro-Israel when I look at what Israel is, what it represents and what they are responsible for. I'm firmly against helping Israel in any way shape or form (but I'm not American though) other than condemning Hamas and making every kind of pressure possible for a mass killing not happening and if it does judging them for it like we are judging Russia, against their will.

Hamas is a terrorist group, but it's the handling Israel did of that situation for years that lead to this end result. It's only normal support for Hamas increases when there's this ammount of inequality, the solution is evening it out; if people make a living, live amongside others and all that shit they won't have the incentive to be radical, it's as simple as that. You just can't do what Israel is doing without being between apartheid and genocide. One is bad the other is worse.

Israel has a lack of accountability issue (and a victim complex) that we really shouldn't fuel further, but sadly will; solutions for this clusterfuck are not easy and both sides are unwilling. But one has already lost and being "without anything to lose" makes out the worst in people. Again the solution is equality, integration and acceptance, making it so that they live well enough in palestine; Solution is not borders, ilegal imprisionment, abuses towards another race/religion and mass hate being spread on the media of a so called democratic country with support from the international community.

Unlike Ukraine, it shames me a great deal that my country (and any country in the developed world) takes parts in this shit situation. This week I've seen countries in Africa being more civilized in their views than my own.

 

[bbmcgee]

Very moral and ethical of you. Screw everyone else and who cares how many get slaughtered. As long as you can sit in your little fantasy bubble world where the only thing that matters is America with zero understanding of those dangerous consequences, then nothing else matters, right?

How unbelievably selfish and ignorant can you get. Your rhetoric is precisely why there's a perception that Americans only care about themselves. Unbelievable.

What are you talking about. I've been on board with most of the thread on hamas/Israel. I support Israel.

You're attacking someone that agrees with you.

 

[winjer]

I'm not claiming that foreign aid is the reason for these problems.

I'm saying that some Americans can't be bothered to care about these other countries when we ourselves are told to fuck off constantly by the same people selling us on foreign aid.

Despite the memes, Americans are that stupid, to think they can't be bothered with the rest of the world.
The USA didn't become the biggest economic and military power the world has ever seen, by being isolationist.

BTW, let me remind you that Russia also wants a part of the USA. One that is filled with ice and oil. So think again, when saying that these things don't affect you.

 

[darkangel-212559]

What are you talking about. I've been on board with most of the thread on hamas/Israel. I support Israel.

You're attacking someone that agrees with you.

That's great. Then support aid and money going to Israel. My country are going to keep you safe. Your welcome.

 

[BlackTron]

I understand that. I'm just saying, if you don't even care about unchecked people coming in directly to our country, its harder to see how these conflicts oceans away are to be taken as seriously

"Oceans away", yet how many things that you use every day came over an ocean? Gas? Plastics? Electronics? The world is interconnected with economic and diplomatic relationships. Seeing nothing but the physical distance is so smooth-brained it's painful.

What are you talking about. I've been on board with most of the thread on hamas/Israel. I support Israel.

You're attacking someone that agrees with you.

I was gonna answer something else but then I saw this post. This is just blatant trolling at this point.

 

[bbmcgee]

This is relevant in regards to any "reparation" in the world.

How do you compensate people for the destruction they suffered years ago? The answer is you don't.

Also Germany didn't pay for the reconstruction after WW2 or they would be indebted forever, nor will Russia.

That said,. I don't really agree with indignation over helping, nor am I pro-Israel when I look at what Israel is, what it represents and what they are responsible for. But (I'm not American though) I'm firmly against helping Israel in any way shape or form other than condemning Hamas and making every kind of pressure possible for a mass killing not happening and if it does judging them for it like we are judging Russia against their will.

Israel has a lack of accountability issue that we really shouldn't fuel further, but sadly will.

I'm not trying to derail so far to get into reparations but I can easily make the case. We'll talk

 

[bbmcgee]

That's great. Then support aid and money going to Israel. My country are going to keep you safe. Your welcome.

I do support it. You attacked me without understanding what I was saying/why

"Oceans away", yet how many things that you use every day came over an ocean? Gas? Plastics? Electronics? The world is interconnected with economic and diplomatic relationships. Seeing nothing but the physical distance is so smooth-brained it's painful.



I was gonna answer something else but then I saw this post. This is just blatant trolling at this point.

I'm not a troll. Do you understand the concept of explaining an argument that you understand but don't necessarily agree with personally?

That's all I was doing. I'm extremely on board with Israel, less so Ukraine.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

I do support it. You attacked me without understanding what I was saying/why


I'm not a troll. Do you understand the concept of explaining an argument that you understand but don't necessarily agree with?

That's all I was doing

I'm not from US but i have plan, what if you COULD BOTH HELP UKRAINE/ISRAEL AND SOLVE BORDER CRISIS. Would you vote for me 2024 if i had citizenship?

 

[Darius87]

I've been on board with the thread about Israel/hamas.

But sorry, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to not see the side of other opinions.

Wild to suggest the American southern border doesn't matter as much as Ukraine.

it seems your government loves cheap labor so that you don't need to work at wallmarts that's bright side of immigration.

 

[winjer]

I do support it. You attacked me without understanding what I was saying/why

I'm not a troll. Do you understand the concept of explaining an argument that you understand but don't necessarily agree with personally?

That's all I was doing. I'm extremely on board with Israel, less so Ukraine.

I don't think you support Israel. Nor Ukraine. Quite the opposite.
You have been saying that we should use the money to help Ukraine and Israel, only to help Americans. Even after we explained to you, that most of this money comes back to the USA or is just old equipment the US doesn't need.
And talking about border issues. When neither Israel nor Ukraine have anything to do with US border policy.
And saying that aid should not be given to foreign countries because there are problems with the US education and health care systems. Both of which are not caused by Ukraine, nor Israel.
And that Americans only care about themselves, despite the US having friendly relations with so much of the democratic and civilized world.

Honestly, it seems you are telling verbatim, what channels like Russia Today say.
Either you are so naive and intellectually limited, that you can't even understand the world around you. So you just gobble up any propaganda fed to you.
Or, you really are just a Russian bot trying to sow dissent, so sabotage US policy regarding Ukraine and Israel.

 

[Thaedolus]

Oh please. You can't expect someone barely getting by to care so much about external politics.

My cousin just got diagnosed with cancer that will bankrupt the entire family cause our costs are out of control, but fuck her for not being enthusiastic about Ukrainian security?

You’re making a great argument for universal health care, not ignoring the plight of our allies fighting for their lives too.

 

[lostinblue]

I'm not trying to derail so far to get into reparations but I can easily make the case. We'll talk

Thanks for answering. Not trying to derail either. I just think reparations are a common mistake as you pointed out.

I harped on about other things which are my opinion, and haven't really felt the pulse of the thread to be honest. Right now I can deal with pro-israel people "from the civilized world" as we won't exactly kill each other for our opinions and can probably agree on some level/things. And nobody is pro-Hamas, obviously.

But I absolutely loathe the pro-israel vibe coming from within Israel. As they are completely different things if that makes any sense; the "if you're not with me you deserve to die" vibe is really part of the problem here, and they give it for free in every twist and turn, it's all against them the moment anyone mentions something uncomfortable like Palestine and justice/equality, that makes them extremists as well.

And Netanyahu is obviously as dangerous as any other sleazy guy in charge. Certainly in the leagues of Erdogan. Being under attack (while having way more guns/territory/influence than it's neighbours) doesn't really change any of that.

 

[Tomeru]

This is relevant in regards to any "reparation" in the world.

How do you compensate people for the destruction they suffered years ago? The answer is you don't.

Also Germany didn't pay for the reconstruction after WW2 or they would be indebted forever, nor will Russia pay for any destruction they inflict; nor will Israel.

That said, I don't really agree with indignation over "helping" (naturally, by help as a country you give what you can, not more than you can afford to - and if you do cracks start to appear - but bare in mind America is being a bit like Iran, they're partaking in all these wars but not contributing directly, which saves a lot of money and citizen lives; they're probably still saving money in all this).

I'm certainly not pro-Israel when I look at what Israel is, what it represents and what they are responsible for. I'm firmly against helping Israel in any way shape or form (but I'm not American though) other than condemning Hamas and making every kind of pressure possible for a mass killing not happening and if it does judging them for it like we are judging Russia, against their will.

Hamas is a terrorist group, but it's the handling Israel did of that situation for years that lead to this end result. It's only normal support for Hamas increases when there's this ammount of inequality, the solution is evening it out; if people make a living, live amongside others and all that shit they won't have the incentive to be radical, it's as simple as that. You just can't do what Israel is doing without being between apartheid and genocide. One is bad the other is worse.

Israel has a lack of accountability issue (and a victim complex) that we really shouldn't fuel further, but sadly will; solutions for this clusterfuck are not easy and both sides are unwilling. But one has already lost and being "without anything to lose" makes out the worst in people. Again the solution is equality, integration and acceptance, making it so that they live well enough in palestine; Solution is not borders, ilegal imprisionment, abuses towards another race/religion and mass hate being spread on the media of a so called democratic country with support from the international community.

Unlike Ukraine, it shames me a great deal that my country (and any country in the developed world) takes parts in this shit situation. This week I've seen countries in Africa being more civilized in their views than my own.

Mother of all face palms. Having a strong, morally high opinion on something without offering viable, realistic solutions (or an inability to, really).

I hope the irony of saying nothing in so many words is not lost on you.

You can have any opinion you want, but saying one side is wrong-er than the other is very clearly choosing sides. Which is understandable - we choose sides all the time. Some of us however, know why we choose a side. It's just that we don't choose it because of strength.

 

[bbmcgee]

I don't think you support Israel. Nor Ukraine. Quite the opposite.
You have been saying that we should use the money to help Ukraine and Israel, only to help Americans. Even after we explained to you, that most of this money comes back to the USA or is just old equipment the US doesn't need.
And talking about border issues. When neither Israel nor Ukraine have anything to do with US border policy.
And saying that aid should not be given to foreign countries because there are problems with the US education and health care systems. Both of which are not caused by Ukraine, nor Israel.
And that Americans only care about themselves, despite the US having friendly relations with so much of the democratic and civilized world.

Honestly, it seems you are telling verbatim, what channels like Russia Today say.
Either you are so naive and intellectually limited, that you can't even understand the world around you. So you just gobble up any propaganda fed to you.
Or, you really are just a Russian bot trying to sow dissent, so sabotage US policy regarding Ukraine and Israel.

Ugh, ok, you can go look at every post I made before 2 hours ago and see where I stand on Israel. If nothing else, i dont want to see another holocaust. I've been pretty clear on that.

All I was saying is that I understand why some Americans dont like this or are unhappy with it.

 

[bbmcgee]

You’re making a great argument for universal health care, not ignoring the plight of our allies fighting for their lives too.

Correct. But, your average american who's struggling with the former issues for decades, might not put ukraine or israel so high on the priority list.

You dont have to agree, but I feel like like thats an understandable thing

 

[lostinblue]

Mother of all face palms. Having a strong, morally high opinion on something without offering viable, realistic solutions (or an inability to, really).

Does anyone has realistic solutions other than wiping the other faction? because I haven't seen any.

I think I outlined the viable solution in the long term, which is also how you could have avoided getting here in the first place. You can't separate, you can't take away more from... you have to unite in some way shape or form. Other through respect and aceptance as well as economical aid or other form. I think everyone with two brain cells realizes that violence is not the solution.

Sounds vague!? Well... It really isn't. What's vague is how to get there. I don't know, but I don't see anyone trying quite the opposite, which is why I claim both sides are bad/flawed/not in the right.

I hope the irony of saying nothing in so many words is not lost on you.

I must have talent to be a good politician then. But I don't.

You can have any opinion you want, but saying one side is wrong-er than the other is very clearly choosing sides. Which is understandable - we choose sides all the time. Some of us however, know why we choose a side. It's just that we don't choose it because of strength.

Both sides are wrong, but the inequality was created and made worse over time. A great deal was done by one of the sides; it just happens that over years of that you'll lose more than territory, you lose dignity, identity, employment, development in general and you start to resent. It all boils down to hate. And the other side feels hate as well. It's a war even when it's not waging war, with hate from both sides. Shit situation. I don't really take sides when both sides are shitty. But I pity the lives stuck in this shitty situation and think a solution has to be found, for them.

I'm against ignoring that. Also, the solution for this has to come from Israel and Palestine. Our meddling doesn't help unless it's pressuring for help to reach gaza in some way shape or form, or pressures for resolution of the matter behind the matter.

Also, IMO, Israel doesn't need our help; they're economically strong and giving them weapons won't make anything better, but palestinians do need help.

 

[Thaedolus]

Correct. But, your average american who's struggling with the former issues for decades, might not put ukraine or israel so high on the priority list.

You dont have to agree, but I feel like like thats an understandable thing

That’s because the average American can’t think two or three steps ahead, which is why they’re living paycheck to paycheck in the first place

 

[Topher]

You don't understand why we don't want our money going to other people we have nothing to do with?

Americans are suffering here. We're in mountains of debt, expensive education, Healthcare, housing, childcare etc etc.

The average Americans life is degrading in quality at an alarming rate. It absolutely makes complete sense to be mad at all this money going away to other countries.

Pretty sure 99.9% of Americans don't know the meaning of the word "suffering". Suffering in context of current world events hasn't been a thing since 9/11 when America was attacked by terrorists. Since then, America has taken the fight overseas and we have not had a repeat of that horrible event. I'd say that is money well spent. The mindset that this is someone else's problem is exactly the complacency which made America vulnerable all those years ago.

Hell, as a black American I get told my people don't deserve reparations for the crimes committed against us. But Israel, Ukraine deserves billions of our money unquestioned? Fuck off. And I support Israel but its still unbalanced bullshit.

False equivalence. Black Americans wanting reparations for crimes that happened over 200 years ago are not the same as providing support for allies being attacked by terrorists. At this point, it seems you just throwing out random political arguments to say Israel doesn't deserve out support and yet still claiming you support Israel. Words are cheap.

 

[Thaedolus]

Plenty of Americans are doing just fine, thanks.

We are way off the topic here but 60% are living paycheck to paycheck and 2/3 would have to go into debt to cover an emergency $500 expense. If you’re in either of those categories, regardless of what you make, you’ve failed to plan ahead IMO.

Anyway enough of this sideshow

 

[Topher]

We are way off the topic here but 60% are living paycheck to paycheck and 2/3 would have to go into debt to cover an emergency $500 expense. If you’re in either of those categories, regardless of what you make, you’ve failed to plan ahead IMO.

Anyway enough of this sideshow

I guess I should just get used to non-Americans making snarky comments about Americans, but yeah, I deleted my response because it is as you say a "sideshow".

 

[Thaedolus]

I guess I should just get used to non-Americans making snarky comments about Americans, but yeah, I deleted my response because it is as you say a "sideshow".

I was born and raised here bubba

 

[Topher]

I was born and raised here bubba

My bad

 

[bbmcgee]

That’s because the average American can’t think two or three steps ahead, which is why they’re living paycheck to paycheck in the first place

This is just not true. Medical debt, mental illness, education costs, bad divorves etc are very often the causes of financial issues in America. Americans have gotten a shit deal and more are waking up to it.

Again. Sorry for derailing, this is another conversation

 

[bbmcgee]

Pretty sure 99.9% of Americans don't know the meaning of the word "suffering". Suffering in context of current world events hasn't been a thing since 9/11 when America was attacked by terrorists. Since then, America has taken the fight overseas and we have not had a repeat of that horrible event. I'd say that is money well spent. The mindset that this is someone else's problem is exactly the complacency which made America vulnerable all those years ago.



False equivalence. Black Americans wanting reparations for crimes that happened over 200 years ago are not the same as providing support for allies being attacked by terrorists. At this point, it seems you just throwing out random political arguments to say Israel doesn't deserve out support and yet still claiming you support Israel. Words are cheap.

Sorry for derailing. I'll make a response and then we could continue some other way.

Americans absolutely know suffering, its a false argument to say 'you aren't in the third world therefore you don't in know suffering '. The average American works longer hours, for fewer benefits than most western countries..we go broke for education to try to get a better job, have little to no worker protections, Healthcare system designed to cripple you, food that is full poison.

The typical American has a shit deal and they're walking up.

And all say on reparations is 'that was so long ago bro' isn't a good reason to deny justice.

 

[ADiTAR]

I'm so tired of hearing about genocide, words have lost meaning. Palestinians have more than 5 folds their numbers since 1948.

 

[killatopak]

Please use the quote function

 

[ADiTAR]

 

[darkangel-212559]

This Jew stands with Palestine? Traitor to the Jewish people. Let her go to Gaza with her support and get raped and butchered by Hamas with her support.

Disgusting. Oh and F Greta. These kids don't know shit. Someone should remind them that Hamas would happily butcher them too. Israel are getting rid of Hamas for the future for kids like this. They don't know shit.

 

[ADiTAR]

This Jew stands with Palestine? Traitor to the Jewish people. Let her go to Gaza with her support and get raped and butchered by Hamas with her support.

Disgusting. Oh and F Greta. These kids don't know shit. Someone should remind them that Hamas would happily butcher them too. Israel are getting rid of Hamas for the future for kids like this. They don't know shit.

It's clown world really when kids are taken seriously. She's also used as a pawn, I understand that her parents really control her narrative.

So far in Israel they don't give two fucks about the press. IDF has a mission, and I hope it'll get it done.

 

[ADiTAR]

Batya is always on point.

 

[Topher]

Sorry for derailing. I'll make a response and then we could continue some other way.

Americans absolutely know suffering, its a false argument to say 'you aren't in the third world therefore you don't in know suffering '. The average American works longer hours, for fewer benefits than most western countries..we go broke for education to try to get a better job, have little to no worker protections, Healthcare system designed to cripple you, food that is full poison.

The typical American has a shit deal and they're walking up.

And all say on reparations is 'that was so long ago bro' isn't a good reason to deny justice.

Suffering by eating too much fast food versus suffering from starvation and disease? Please. Factually, none of the victims of the crimes your reparations are supposed to provide "justice" for are alive and so there is no "justice" to be had at all. Either way, funds to help Israel is much more deserving than what is essentially a free handout.

 

[ADiTAR]

If you think this is about Israel...

 

[EviLore]

She deleted her first tweet because oops, antisemitic signaling. Now she claims it was some kind of emotional support stuffed animal, not intended to be antisemitic, even though it was specifically put there for the photo op.

 

[Topher]

She deleted her first tweet because oops, antisemitic signaling. Now she claims it was some kind of emotional support stuffed animal, not intended to be antisemitic, even though it was specifically put there for the photo op.

And the world will buy it. Cancel culture is so incredibly selective.

 

[EviLore]

And the world will buy it. Cancel culture is so incredibly selective.

Yep, like Alicia Keyes wearing Hamas colors and posting about going paragliding. Just a coincidence.

 

[bbmcgee]

Suffering by eating too much fast food versus suffering from starvation and disease? Please. Factually, none of the victims of the crimes your reparations are supposed to provide "justice" for are alive and so there is no "justice" to be had at all. Either way, funds to help Israel is much more deserving than what is essentially a free handout.

You know full well it goes far beyond fast food. And the United States is the guilty party and it still exists, and black americans are the victims and still exist. Not an excusse.

 

[Artoris]

And the world will buy it. Cancel culture is so incredibly selective.

She said nothing about the two Swedes who were killed a few days ago

 

[Kenpachii]

She said nothing about the two Swedes who were killed a few days ago

Probably out of autistic stuffed animals that could tell people here feelings about those swedes.

 

[EviLore]

These are your people, Greta.

 

[Boozeroony]

She deleted her first tweet because oops, antisemitic signaling. Now she claims it was some kind of emotional support stuffed animal, not intended to be antisemitic, even though it was specifically put there for the photo op.

Sometimes a stuffed animal is just a stuffed animal. I mean, a blue Kraken?

 

[Topher]

You know full well it goes far beyond fast food. And the United States is the guilty party and it still exists, and black americans are the victims and still exist. Not an excusse.

lol....bullshit

Those pics ain't from America. Your nonsense is going on ignore.

 

[nani17]

I'm Irish and in Ireland for years we have always supported Palestinian. Ireland is one of the most pro Palestinian countries in the world. However killing innocent people like Hamas has done doesn't help your cause

​

 

[CrankyJay™]

What does the kraken or octopus represent in terms of anti-Semitism?

I asked ChatGPT and while they said it wasn't a direct sign of anti-Semitism, it seemed to have contradicted immediately after saying "Some anti-Semitic propaganda, especially during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, has used octopus imagery to depict Jews or Jewish influence in a negative light, suggesting a conspiracy or undue influence over global affairs."

 

[EviLore]

Sometimes a stuffed animal is just a stuffed animal. I mean, a blue Kraken?

It’s a fully staged photo, everything included deliberately, against a bare white wall.


Nazi propaganda of the blue kraken:

Anti-Jewish propaganda

encyclopedia.ushmm.org