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[E-Cat]

Yeah Bibi is a piece of shit, but right now he's the piece of shit Israel needs to wipe Hamas out for good.

Is that even possible when they blend into the Palestinian civil population? I suppose one approach that would yield partial success would be indiscriminate killing.

Personally, I have a hard time differentiating between the effective morality of the "moral" killing of civilians (civilians killed as collateral victims for "the greater good") vs the "immoral" killing of civilians (specific targeting). Obviously, the latter is more immoral in its intent. But saying that we will wipe out Hamas and there will be civilian casulties, probably many times more than in the Hamas terror strike against the Israelis, because the end goal justifies it -- while it does seem more moral in some abstract sense, it still effectively leads to more civilian deaths -- that is objectively just as immoral, because the victims or their families won't care about the justification. Dead is dead. Now, add to the mix that Netanyahu somewhat aided in bringing about this monster to play 4d chess with preserving the status quo, and it gets super weird...

The other option would be to use intelligence and special ops to surgically wipe out Hamas members, but that will probably take a long time, and you'll never get all of them, either way. In short, I don't see a good solution.

 

[F0rneus]

Is that even possible when they blend into the Palestinian civil population? I suppose one approach that would yield partial success would be indiscriminate killing.

Personally, I have a hard time differentiating between the effective morality of the "moral" killing of civilians (civilians killed as collateral victims for "the greater good") vs the "immoral" killing of civilians (specific targeting). Obviously, the latter is more immoral in its intent. But saying that we will wipe out Hamas and there will be civilian casulties, probably many times more than in the Hamas terror strike against the Israelis, because the end goal justifies it -- while it does seem more moral in some abstract sense, it still effectively leads to more civilian deaths -- that is objectively just as immoral, because the victims or their families won't care about the justification. Dead is dead. Now, add to the mix that Netanyahu somewhat aided in bringing about this monster to play 4d chess with preserving the status quo, and it gets super weird...

The other option would be to use intelligence and special ops to surgically wipe out Hamas members, but that will probably take a long time, and you'll never get all of them, either way. In short, I don't see a good solution.

Long time is the solution. I don't think this will be a conflict that will end any time soon. They need to identify the core of Hamas, their locations and take them out with precision. If Bibi goes before the end, and his successor continues to destroy Hamas...Good.

 

[Boozeroony]

Eradicating Hamas is the short term goal. Ideas and ideologies can't be killed with bullets, though, and Gaza is not an ideological island. The whole region needs to reform itself, otherwise a new Hamas will rise from the ashes. I am not very optimistic, as Islam is not known for it's ability to move towards a modern society. In fact, I see an opposite trend.

 

[F0rneus]

Eradicating Hamas is the short term goal. Ideas and ideologies can't be killed with bullets, though, and Gaza is not an ideological island. The whole region needs to reform itself, otherwise a new Hamas will rise from the ashes. I am not very optimistic, as Islam is not known for it's ability to move towards a modern society. In fact, I see an opposite trend.

It becomes harder and harder to disagree, when you see Muslims worldwide calling for the death of all Jews and bringing out their swastikas. Not all of them of course but far too many...

 

[RaduN]

Yeah Bibi is a piece of shit, but right now he's the piece of shit Israel needs to wipe Hamas out for good.

He won't.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes, yes. It's all America's fault again

Can we stop posting conspiracy theory nutjobs, like this stupid fucker?

https://inews.co.uk/news/covid-cons...of-9-11-to-spread-pandemic-falsehoods-1186423

The series interviews key figures within the 9/11 and anti-lockdown conspiracy movement, and includes Robin Monotti, who previously compared lockdowns to Nazi eugenicist programmes, and runs a Telegram channel with Michael Yeadon who was a former vice president of Pfizer and has promoted disinformation about the Covid vaccine’s risk to pregnant women.

Mr Monotti repeats a false conspiracy claim that BBC journalists had prior knowledge of 9/11, and claims that people should similarly distrust Government narratives on the pandemic.

 

[E-Cat]

Yes, yes. It's all America's fault again

That's flair added by the Twitter account. I only posted the tweet in order to have non-paywalled text to the article, that says nothing about America's possible involvement. But that's not the point here.

The question remains, did Netanyahu approve these measures or not? Do you not find it plausible?

 

[FunkMiller]

That's flair added by the Twitter account. I only posted the tweet in order to have non-paywalled text to the article. But the question remains, did Netanyahu approve these measures or not? Do you not find it plausible?

No. The guy you're quoting is a fucking loon, and his source is equally fucking idiotic.

 

[E-Cat]

No. The guy you're quoting is a fucking loon, and his source is equally fucking idiotic.

Please educate me, I'm not well-versed in the credibility of this source (Haaretz). But it does quote other sources, seems like it would be pretty easy to verify whether true or not. What about the Jerusalem Post that said "in a private meeting with members of his Likud party on March 11, 2019, Netanyahu explained the step as follows: The money transfer is part of the strategy to divide the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Anyone who opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support the transfer of the money from Qatar to Hamas." There was also the quote from a Hebrew-language book from the former cabinet Haim Ramon, a Channel 13 interview with Mubarak, etc.

 

[F0rneus]

Please educate me, I'm not well-versed in the credibility of this source (Hareetz). But it does quote other sources, seems like it would be pretty easy to verify whether true or not.

Guy is a total maniac who claimed that the Covid vaccine killed the babies of pregnant women, said he had proof that 9/11 was staged (oh wait he changed his tune and said it could have been prevented and everyone knew etc) and I could go on and on. Lunatic. Bibi is a corrupt politician but when a guy like that says that he funded Hamas...Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[E-Cat]

Guy is a total maniac who claimed that the Covid vaccine killed the babies of pregnant women, said he had proof that 9/11 was staged (oh wait he changed his tune and said it could have been prevented and everyone knew etc) and I could go on and on. Lunatic. Bibi is a corrupt politician but when a guy like that says that he funded Hamas...Take it with a grain of salt.

I'm not talking about the Twitter guy, but the actual article he cites. It is logically possible for the quoter to be a lunatic, but for the source to be credible.

 

[F0rneus]

I'm not talking about the Twitter guy, but the actual article he cites. It is logically possible for the quoter to be a lunatic, but for the source to be credible.

I mean his source is an opinion piece. Not an actual article lol.

 

[FunkMiller]

Please educate me, I'm not well-versed in the credibility of this source (Hareetz). But it does quote other sources, seems like it would be pretty easy to verify whether true or not.

Bibi's handling of the entire situation has been terrible, but that's because of his own internal political machinations around securing himself more power. There is no evidence to suggest though that he has deliberately, with the assistance of the intelligence agencies of the USA, sought to make Hamas more powerful, thereby causing the latest atrocity.

The fact that Monotti thinks there's some credence to it should tell you all you need to know about how likely it is to be true. The paper in question is a small scale Israeli outlet, with little to no credentials as an independent, trustworthy news source.

 

[E-Cat]

I mean his source is an opinion piece. Not an actual article lol.

But does quote the Jerusalem Post, a former cabinet member, a Channel 13 interview, and so on.

 

[F0rneus]

Bibi's handling of the entire situation has been terrible, but that's because of his own internal political machinations around securing himself more power. There is no evidence to suggest though that he has deliberately, with the assistance of the intelligence agencies of the USA, sought to make Hamas more powerful, thereby causing the latest atrocity.

The fact that Monotti thinks there's some credence to it should tell you all you need to know about how likely it is to be true. The paper in question is a small scale Israeli outlet, with little to no credentials as an independent, trustworthy news source.

 

[E-Cat]

Bibi's handling of the entire situation has been terrible, but that's because of his own internal political machinations around securing himself more power. There is no evidence to suggest though that he has deliberately, with the assistance of the intelligence agencies of the USA, sought to make Hamas more powerful, thereby causing the latest atrocity.

I stress that the Twitter link is only to get around the paywall. The linked piece does not mention the Americans at all. I agree there's no hard evidence, but there does seem to be smoke at least.

The fact that Monotti thinks there's some credence to it should tell you all you need to know about how likely it is to be true.

What Monotti thinks is irrelevant.

The paper in question is a small scale Israeli outlet, with little to no credentials as an independent, trustworthy news source.

I don't think it should be the default assumption that an Israeli outlet would purposely lie in order to make Israel look bad. Again, is the Jerusalem Post also an untrustworthy source?

 

[FunkMiller]

What Monotti thinks is irrelevant. I don't think it should be the default assumption that an Israeli outlet would purposely lie in order to make Israel look bad. Again, is the Jerusalem Post also an untrustworthy source?

So why quote him and not the original story? The US involvement is conspiracy horseshit.

I can’t verify any of the supposed information in the story, as there are no links Direct back to the source. But even so, there’s no secret about money going to Gaza via Qatar.

 

[E-Cat]

So why quote him and not the original story?

Did you not read what I wrote -- in order to get around the paywall. Also, I did post the original story.

The US involvement is conspiracy horseshit.

We are in agreement. Don't strawman me when I wrote what Monotti claimed wasn't even relevant.

I can’t verify any of the supposed information in the story, as there are no links Direct back to the source.

Jerusalem Post, March 2019:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said."

Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided

“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.

www.jpost.com

I'm not going through the trouble of finding a link back to every single source, or buying the actual Hebrew-language book by the former cabinet member Haim Ramon in order to check the reference on p. 417. That's an unreasonable standard, do you always require it when someone posts something that doesn't agree with your ideology?

Like I said, why should the default assumption be that a news source is making its sources up? Given that the Jerusalem Post reference was real, I tend to gravitate towards Haaretz not making shit up as a policy, until proven false.

But even so, there’s no secret about money going to Gaza via Qatar.

And Netanyahu approved this?

 

[FunkMiller]

Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided

“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.

www.jpost.com

I'm not going through the trouble of finding a link back to every single source, or buying the actual Hebrew-language book by the former cabinet member Haim Ramon in order to check the reference on p. 417. That's an unreasonable standard, do you always require it when someone posts something that doesn't agree with your ideology?

I only tend to drill down more when someone posts conspiracy theory loons. There's nothing in that article that suggests some sort of shady deliberate attempt by the Israeli government to strengthen Hamas enough for them to commit atrocities like the ones that have happened recently. Mismanagement, yes. Shady conspiracies, no.

 

[E-Cat]

I only tend to drill down more when someone posts conspiracy theory loons. There's nothing in that article that suggests some sort of shady deliberate attempt by the Israeli government to strengthen Hamas enough for them to commit atrocities like the ones that have happened recently. Mismanagement, yes. Shady conspiracies, no.

There’s a direct source in Jerusalem Post saying that ”Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza — as part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate.”

This to me possibly implies wanting to sabotage two-state solution talks. Of course they didn’t mean to cause revolts like the recent terror attacks. It’s a fine balancing act, indeed.

 

[ADiTAR]

There’s a direct source in Jerusalem Post saying that ”Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza — as part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate.”

This to me possibly implies wanting to sabotage two-state solution talks. Of course they didn’t mean to cause revolts like the recent terror attacks. It’s a fine balancing act, indeed.

Yes. Avigdor Liberman also resigned as Defense Secretary in 2018 because of this.

Bibi is to blame for this, and that's why I hope he will finish the job he never wanted to.

 

[ReBurn]

In this case visual analysis means someone actually looked at the pictures.

 

[LordOfChaos]

 

[F0rneus]

That piece of shit should be put down.

 

[Stitch]

unrestricted immigration from islamic countrys was such a great idea...

 

[Salty Hippo]

Is that even possible when they blend into the Palestinian civil population? I suppose one approach that would yield partial success would be indiscriminate killing.

Personally, I have a hard time differentiating between the effective morality of the "moral" killing of civilians (civilians killed as collateral victims for "the greater good") vs the "immoral" killing of civilians (specific targeting). Obviously, the latter is more immoral in its intent. But saying that we will wipe out Hamas and there will be civilian casulties, probably many times more than in the Hamas terror strike against the Israelis, because the end goal justifies it -- while it does seem more moral in some abstract sense, it still effectively leads to more civilian deaths -- that is objectively just as immoral, because the victims or their families won't care about the justification. Dead is dead. Now, add to the mix that Netanyahu somewhat aided in bringing about this monster to play 4d chess with preserving the status quo, and it gets super weird...

The other option would be to use intelligence and special ops to surgically wipe out Hamas members, but that will probably take a long time, and you'll never get all of them, either way. In short, I don't see a good solution.

This sounds like a lot of moral relativism for something that shouldn't be that complicated. Yes, both types of killing are equally immoral, but the perpetrator of such immorality is the same in both cases.

You don't do 10/7, civilians don't die. You don't use civilians as human shields by forcefully keeping them inside military targets, civilians don't die. Every drop of blood spilled in this conflict that has started 2 weeks ago is on Hamas' hands.

 

[Forsete]

unrestricted immigration from islamic countrys was such a great idea...

OMFG.

 

[E-Cat]

This sounds like a lot of moral relativism for something that shouldn't be that complicated. Yes, both types of killing are equally immoral, but the perpetrator of such immorality is the same in both cases.

You don't do 10/7, civilians don't die. You don't use civilians as human shields by forcefully keeping them inside military targets, civilians don't die. Every drop of blood spilled in this conflict that has started 2 weeks ago is on Hamas' hands.

By this logic, any counter-measure whatsoever would be justified.

 

[bbmcgee]

I keep hearing this take.
When will people realize that Hamas has close to 80% support from the people in Gaza (?)
When Hamas was busy slaughtering anything in sight during the attack, who do you think raped the children, burned them alive and tortured the bodies? if was the fucking "citizens".

This is ignored because it kills the narrative. Everyones pretending that the Gazans love Israel and Hamas is going completely against the will of the people.

If the truth was acknowledgde even the most insane lefty couldnt delude themselves into the 'free palestine' position.

 

[Thaedolus]

OMFG.

Next headline: London subway driver fired

 

[Atrus]

Tame? Talk to palestinian exiled as well as their descendants and come back.

A lot of what Israel did over the years violates international law. Palestine/Gaza has no airport since 2000, you can't be palestinian (living abroad for decades, naturalized UK citizen) and visit Tel-Aviv or any place in Israel, you can't fly to Israel and visit palestinian settlements, if you're Palestinian and you live in Israel territory you can't leave or you'll never come back...

There's real issues but there has been a lot of suitable measures supposedly justified by defending against what the other side thinks or feels that aren't justifiable under international law. And a lot of those "faults" made the situation worse.

Imo. It's wrong to call either side "moderate".

Hamas is extreme, no doubt about it. But nobody is supporting Hamas. We're just saying fighting hate with hate, with an already unequal opportunity field for both factions is not going to solve things, you're just plucking "bad weeds" with bigger bombs.

That's not the real source of the problem. Just the outcome.

The problem is that there is no moral way to deal with people whose basic and primary desire is extermination of Israel from the face of the earth.

It does not work in Israel, does not work in Ukraine, and does not work in Armenia. Any leniency is only interpreted as a weakness to be exploited by their enemies to destroy them as nations and people.

Israel has not seen any benefit to lowering its security measures other than to invite more violence, so they must ratchet up security for the sake of their residents.

Palestinians first need rational representatives with actual authority from the people to act on their behalf. Toothless progressives and violent regressives are not meaningful. The constant cheering for Islamists is fundamentally in opposition to a good outcome, anywhere.

 

[E-Cat]

Under the circumstances, that’s like a 9/11 pilot yelling ”Allahu akbar”. Must have been a terrifying ride for the passengers.

 

[Insane Metal]

Next headline: London subway driver fired

Hopefully

 

[Woggleman]

If they wanted it they could have had a peaceful two state solution decades ago and would have been in a much better position than they are now but they wanted war and now they have it. War is never nice or kind but you have to look at who started it and who keeps it going and that is not Israel. If you are offered damn near everything you say you wanted in exchanged for peace and recognizing your neighbor's right to exist and you turn your nose at it then who's fault is that?

 

[Forsete]

Next headline: London subway driver fired

Lets fucking hope so.

 

[DeafTourette]

And that's been Netanyahu's exact playbook in preventing the beginning of the talks for a two-state solution -- perpetuating a rift between Hamas and PA, and then stating Palestinian Authority doesn’t represent all the Palestinians -- a gamble that now seems to have backfired:

"Since he took office as prime minister a second time in 2009, Netanyahu developed and advanced a destructive, warped political doctrine that held that strengthening Hamas at the expense of the Palestinian Authority would be good for Israel. The purpose of the doctrine was to perpetuate the rift between Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. That would preserve the diplomatic paralysis and forever remove the “danger” of negotiations with the Palestinians over the partition of Israel into two states – on the argument that the Palestinian Authority doesn’t represent all the Palestinians. That flawed strategy turned Hamas from a minor terrorist organization into an efficient, lethal army with highly trained, dehumanized stormtroopers, bloodthirsty killers who mercilessly slaughtered innocent Israeli civilians including women, children and the elderly."

"Between 2012 and 2018, Netanyahu gave Qatar approval to transfer a cumulative sum of about a billion dollars to Gaza, at least half of which reached Hamas, including its military wing. According to the Jerusalem Post, in a private meeting with members of his Likud party on March 11, 2019, Netanyahu explained the reckless step as follows: The money transfer is part of the strategy to divide the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Anyone who opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support the transfer of the money from Qatar to Hamas. In that way, we will foil the establishment of a Palestinian state (as reported in former cabinet member Haim Ramon’s Hebrew-language book “Neged Haruach”, p. 417). In an interview with the Ynet news website on May 5, 2019, Netanyahu associate Gershon Hacohen, a major general in reserves, said, “We need to tell the truth. Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”

"In a tweet on May 20, 2019, Channel 13 quoted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak saying: “Netanyahu isn’t interested in the two-state solution. Rather, he wants to separate Gaza from the West Bank, as he told me at the end of 2010.” Mubarak said that during an interview with the Kuwaiti daily Al-Anba. It’s worth dwelling on the horrifying significance of these remarks. An Israeli prime minister himself knowingly and calculatingly cultivated one of Israel’s most bitter and fanatic foes, an enemy whose declared aim is to destroy the country. And he did it to prevent the horror scenario from his standpoint of a return to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Netanyahu recklessly gambled on the lives of Israelis, and in fact, last Shabbat, more than 1,000 of them paid the price of that foolish gamble with their lives."

Why did Netanyahu want to strengthen Hamas?

***

www.haaretz.com

(non-paywalled text for the article)

WOW! So Hamas wouldn't even be where they are without BiBi? Someone this radical can't be trusted! Not even to battle Hamas.

 

[near]

unrestricted immigration from islamic countrys was such a great idea...

This is a protester with a loudspeaker not a tube driver abusing the PA system. I know this because it doesn't sound like that when it is used, furthermore, drivers rarely if ever use the PA system without using pre-recorded announcements.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Damn it so Jewish Space Lazers was another correct conspiracy?



In other news: Unknown Men are putting in work

 

[Salty Hippo]

By this logic, any counter-measure whatsoever would be justified.

No? Any counter-measure that targets specifically only terrorists and goes out of its way to warn civilians to get out of harm's way, is.

 

[E-Cat]

No? Any counter-measure that targets specifically only terrorists and goes out of its way to warn civilians to get out of harm's way, is.

What about a building that has half Hamas members and half civilians? You said ”every drop of blood spilled in this conflict that has started 2 weeks ago is on Hamas' hands.”

 

[chlorate]

Former GOP/ libertarian Congressman Justin Amash has lost several family members as civilian casualties from an Israeli airstrike

Former Rep. Justin Amash says several relatives killed in Gaza church blast

Amash, who in 2011 became the first Palestinian American to serve in Congress, said in an X post that some of his kinfolk had been sheltering inside the Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church when the ai…

nypost.com

 

[-Zelda-]

Why do all of these tweets show a screen that says loading tweet, but they never load? I have to click them to go to twitter and that's first world problem annoying.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Hmm

 

[DeafTourette]

Former GOP/ libertarian Congressman Justin Amash has lost several family members as civilian casualties from an Israeli airstrike

Former Rep. Justin Amash says several relatives killed in Gaza church blast

Amash, who in 2011 became the first Palestinian American to serve in Congress, said in an X post that some of his kinfolk had been sheltering inside the Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church when the ai…

nypost.com

Dang!

 

[Stitch]

This is a protester with a loudspeaker not a tube driver abusing the PA system.

maybe. still a lot of fucktards cheering for it.

Why do all of these tweets show a screen that says loading tweet, but they never load? I have to click them to go to twitter and that's first world problem annoying.

maybe you're blocking something

Hmm

ah pallywood. maybe they'll get an oscar for best foreign language movie next year

 

[jason10mm]

What about a building that has half Hamas members and half civilians? You said ”every drop of blood spilled in this conflict that has started 2 weeks ago is on Hamas' hands.”

Well, are the Hamas terrorists actively trying to surrender? Have they divested themselves of all arms? Have they rendered all explosives inert? Have they notified the IDF of any and ALL hostages in the area and guaranteed their safe return? Have ALL Hamas members agreed to face Israeli justice for their crimes?

If they do that there would BE NO AIRSTRIKE!

We will just assume the "civilians" in this picture are well aware that the 50 15-30 yo guys living on the other side of the apartment complex, festooned with rifles, always shouting radical islamic oaths, probably seen bringing in a few head shrouded women or kids on or around 7 Oct, know damn well that's Hamas over on the other side. Israel has been dropping leaflets for days, so we'll just assume these civilians also know what's gonna happen should they continue to co-habitate with terrorists. So they should leave. OR, or or or, they could go over to the Hamas side, reason with their countrymen, and urge them to surrender, face Israeli justice for their crimes, and let Gaza grow as a proper member of the world.

If the Hamas guys are FORCIBLY keeping civilians close, well, that is THEIR WAR CRIME, not Israels. Maybe those hundreds of thousands of non-Hamas, non-Israeli hating, just wanna live in peace brothers should sack up and kick these terrorist shitbags out of their towns???

 

[hyperbertha]

Hamas is extreme, no doubt about it. But nobody is supporting Hamas. We're just saying fighting hate with hate, with an already unequal opportunity field for both factions is not going to solve things, you're just plucking "bad weeds" with bigger bombs.

That's not the real source of the problem. Just the outcome.

Sure about that?

 

[jason10mm]

Former GOP/ libertarian Congressman Justin Amash has lost several family members as civilian casualties from an Israeli airstrike

Former Rep. Justin Amash says several relatives killed in Gaza church blast

Amash, who in 2011 became the first Palestinian American to serve in Congress, said in an X post that some of his kinfolk had been sheltering inside the Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church when the ai…

nypost.com

That sucks, however the wall collapsed. I'm kinda surprised that he spent 10 years in congress and didn't try to get his dear family members out of there though, it being an "open air prison" and all.

 

[E-Cat]

We will just assume the "civilians" in this picture are well aware that the 50 15-30 yo guys living on the other side of the apartment complex, festooned with rifles, always shouting radical islamic oaths, probably seen bringing in a few head shrouded women or kids on or around 7 Oct, know damn well that's Hamas over on the other side. Israel has been dropping leaflets for days, so we'll just assume these civilians also know what's gonna happen should they continue to co-habitate with terrorists. So they should leave. OR, or or or, they could go over to the Hamas side, reason with their countrymen, and urge them to surrender, face Israeli justice for their crimes, and let Gaza grow as a proper member of the world.

For the purpose of this hypothetical, we will assume Hamas has trapped the civilians in the building with them against their own will.

If the Hamas guys are FORCIBLY keeping civilians close, well, that is THEIR WAR CRIME, not Israels. Maybe those hundreds of thousands of non-Hamas, non-Israeli hating, just wanna live in peace brothers should sack up and kick these terrorist shitbags out of their towns???

Perhaps they should. I’m not judging you, btw, just curious to hear your reasoning.

Let’s say in practice it’s not possible to accurately target Hamas terrorists without considerable civilian losses. Israel runs the numbers and projects roughly 10x civilian deaths from the campaign vs # of dead Israelis from the Hamas attack. Is it still ’justified’?

 

[Meicyn]

What about a building that has half Hamas members and half civilians? You said ”every drop of blood spilled in this conflict that has started 2 weeks ago is on Hamas' hands.”

If they are firing rockets, yes. It is now a lawful target per law of armed conflict or rules of engagement for modern era military actions. This is similar to how during war, a medic cannot participate in offensive combat maneuvers. The moment they do, they become a lawful target. If a non-military facility such as a hospital is used for something way outside its intended scope, like say, stockpiling munitions intended for offensive measures, it loses protected status.

This is why you do not use human shields in war.

You may not like this answer, but let’s explore your thinking further. If you do not take action because there are civilians present, you can render military action null because all you ever need is some hostages. The opponent can never fight back.

For the purpose of this hypothetical, we will assume Hamas has trapped the civilians in the building with them against their own will.

Perhaps they should. I’m not judging you, btw, just curious to hear your reasoning.

Let’s say in practice it’s not possible to accurately target Hamas terrorists without considerable civilian losses. Israel runs the numbers and projects roughly 10x civilian deaths from the campaign vs # of dead Israelis from the Hamas attack. Is it still ’justified’?

Yes, it is. Again, you either destroy the enemy or you let them shoot at you with impunity. It’s shitty in every conceivable way but that is the horrifying reality.