• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war

Status
Not open for further replies.

FunkMiller

Member
Currently, 15% of Londoners are Muslim. At some point, the Muslim population in London will be large enough to make Londoners feel uncomfortable (because of the lack of assimilation of most Muslim immigrants, not because they are Muslim per se), it won't feel like London to them anymore. There are a lot of scenarios of what can happen once London reaches that point, but the clash will happen way before there are 50% Muslims in the UK and even long before there are 50% just in London. The same goes for every big European country.

I lived in London my entire life. All of this not true at all. The city is a vast melting pot of different cultures. Islam is no more or less powerful than any other culture.

This fearmongering does need to stop.

Big protest marches happen here a great deal. I don’t hear people screaming in terror about climate activists or trade unions taking over.

The Muslims aren’t taking over any more than the Afro Caribbeans or the Asians.

Come on people.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
Comparing climate activists to a religious-political movement that openly and violently wants to erase classic Western values?

Because they hold big protest rallies in London.

The point being, some of you see footage of a protest march on Sky News and think it means a damn thing to the city's powerbase or social structure. It doesn't. Ever.
 

FingerBang

Member
I have never been a huge fan of Israel (and Netanyahu) , mostly because I'm not a fan of religious countries, but man do I struggle to understand what the hell is going on here. Just reading history, I struggle to understand how we can have 100k people marching in London basically asking for genocide of the Jewish population there without even realizing that's what they're asking. I am confused by people putting on the famous map of Israel "expanding" ignoring the fact that it was the consequence of wars to get rid of them. I am really baffled at people asking them to leave because somebody else was "there first" when that logic would see most of the fucking world have to relocate.

It's all on Israel, apparently. The fact Hamas went in and basically killed old people, women and children just because they're Israelis doesn't matter and they should stop firing.

Which will accelerate the process even further. But it can also mean that an extreme right-wing party might rise.
That's the only alternative they've given people and at this point I think it has to happen before things get better. We'll see the extreme push back on immigration, race relations, LGBT rights and more and the left/EU-minded lot will be rightfully to blame for it.
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
Because they hold big protest rallies in London.

The point being, some of you see footage of a protest march on Sky News and think it means a damn thing to the city's powerbase or social structure. It doesn't. Ever.

Agreed, just that there is a massive difference in intent between the two.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Comparing climate activists to a religious-political movement that openly and violently wants to erase classic Western values?
It’s basically smooth brained thinking of “oh my tribe is taking this side? Well then let’s lump everything else tribe says is correct into it and let’s try spinning that’s a good trick.”
 

Ogbert

Gold Member
I lived in London my entire life. All of this not true at all. The city is a vast melting pot of different cultures. Islam is no more or less powerful than any other culture.

This fearmongering does need to stop.

Big protest marches happen here a great deal. I don’t hear people screaming in terror about climate activists or trade unions taking over.

The Muslims aren’t taking over any more than the Afro Caribbeans or the Asians.

Come on people.
Like you, have lived in London my whole life (well, grew up in Watford but then Brixton, Kennington and Stockwell).

We absolutely have a growing problem with Muslim majority towns and districts in places like Luton, Bradford, Leicester etc. As soon as an Islamic community controls the levers of power it, without fail, demonstrates a desire to start imposing de facto blasphemy laws, religious exception and threats of violence.

You’re right that the idea of ‘taking over’ is perhaps overblown (for this century). But we will have an entirely separate culture that lives alongside us but despises every value we hold dear.

And this contrast will become ever more apparent.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I lived in London my entire life. All of this not true at all. The city is a vast melting pot of different cultures. Islam is no more or less powerful than any other culture.

This fearmongering does need to stop.

Big protest marches happen here a great deal. I don’t hear people screaming in terror about climate activists or trade unions taking over.

The Muslims aren’t taking over any more than the Afro Caribbeans or the Asians.

Come on people.
To be fair, the big difference between protests by unions, climate people or years back when taxi drivers in major cities protested Uber setting up is that those mobs of people dont spew hate rhetoric or rip down kidnapping posters. Nor do they have tendencies for possible violence, vandalism or if it gets really worse like mid east tensions, kill or behead people.

Why would any city of people and government want parades of 1000s of people loudly proclaiming Kill Jews to be ok?
 

DrKeo

Member
I lived in London my entire life. All of this not true at all. The city is a vast melting pot of different cultures. Islam is no more or less powerful than any other culture.

This fearmongering does need to stop.

Big protest marches happen here a great deal. I don’t hear people screaming in terror about climate activists or trade unions taking over.

The Muslims aren’t taking over any more than the Afro Caribbeans or the Asians.

Come on people.
I'm not from London, but when I was in London in 2018 just north of Hyde Park I walked through some streets that were pulled right out of the middle east. Afro-Caribbeans or Asians assimilate into the societies they immigrate to, they also don't aspire to replace the culture with their own. That is also true for Muslims who immigrated decades ago, mostly East Asian Muslims. Unfortunately, it is not the case for Arab Muslim immigrants in the past two decades.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I'm not from London, but when I was in London in 2018 just north of Hyde Park I walked through some streets that were pulled right out of the middle east. Afro-Caribbeans or Asians assimilate into the societies they immigrate to, they also don't aspire to replace the culture with their own. That is also true for Muslims who immigrated decades ago, mostly East Asian Muslims. Unfortunately, it is not the case for Arab Muslim immigrants in the past two decades.

London is a city of many different cultures, and some cultures are more concentrated in some areas more than others.

It makes me laugh when I see people writing stuff about how Muslims are taking over the city, or how western values are going to get overtaken, because I live in North West London. You know, the bit where all the rich white people with power actually are. There are some unpleasant ultra-religious people floating about the city in some places, but I ain't worried about them grabbing onto the levers of power any time in the near future.

Also... north of Hyde Park? Where do you mean, Paddington? Because fuck me, that's about as far away from the middle east as you can get :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
-"Hey dude, I'm bored and the fridge is empty"
-"yeah man, let's get some fresh air and see what's going on"


We are at the age of boredom, where people have no purpose in life but fill the void between Netflix releases.


Spot on example of the type of feckless idiots that drive the support for organisations like Hamas. Bored, entitled, middle-class rich boys, without a fucking thing to worry about in their own lives, take on 'causes' to make themselves feel worthy, without actually studying what the cause actually is.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
To be fair, the big difference between protests by unions, climate people or years back when taxi drivers in major cities protested Uber setting up is that those mobs of people dont spew hate rhetoric or rip down kidnapping posters. Nor do they have tendencies for possible violence, vandalism or if it gets really worse like mid east tensions, kill or behead people.

Why would any city of people and government want parades of 1000s of people loudly proclaiming Kill Jews to be ok?

Oh, I'm not in any way condoning the actions of those hate spewing cunts, I'm just trying to provide a little balance to the discussion before it goes completely off the rails into cloud cuckoo land about how the west is falling, or London is in the grips of an Islamic fundamentalist overthrow.

People come here to protest, because it's the capital. And is entirely unrepresentative of the vast majority of the country.
 

sedg87

Member
London is nothing compared to the absolute shit-tip of the city I live in: Bradford. 30.15% are Muslim according to the Gov.uk website.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
Like you, have lived in London my whole life (well, grew up in Watford but then Brixton, Kennington and Stockwell).

Sahf of the river?

Jim Carrey Vomit GIF


I'm not sure I'm legally allowed to talk to you.
 

DrKeo

Member
London is a city of many different cultures, and some cultures are more concentrated in some areas more than others.

It makes me laugh when I see people writing stuff about how Muslims are taking over the city, or how western values are going to get overtaken, because I live in North West London. You know, the bit where all the rich white people with power actually are. There are some unpleasant ultra-religious people floating about the city in some places, but I ain't worried about them grabbing onto the levers of power any time in the near future.

Also... north of Hyde Park? Where do you mean, Paddington? Because fuck me, that's about as far away from the middle east as you can get :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yes, London is a city of many different cultures. But most of them aren't 15% of the population (a figure which is growing fast), aren't concentrated in the same neighborhoods, and most of them try their hardest to assimilate into the existing culture while still preserving their own culture.

It's not something specific to Arab Muslims, we have the exact same thing here in Israel with Haredi Jews. Communities that grow rapidly, that don't assimilate into the general population, and that don't respect other cultures. As a result, when the separatist population gets big enough, the tolerance to all other cultures goes down the drain. But hey, maybe I just don't know London enough, and in 20 years when the Islamic population will be 30%, maybe it will still be as free and pluralistic as it is today, without any Sharia laws in place.

And regarding the north of Hyde Park, I believe it was Edgware Road area, we just wandered around for a while so I'm not exactly sure.
 
Last edited:

Trunx81

Member
Those people protesting for the destruction of Israel - do they know that this would lead to even more suffering in the region? Millions over Millions would die.
 

Salty Hippo

Member
I have never been a huge fan of Israel (and Netanyahu) , mostly because I'm not a fan of religious countries, but man do I struggle to understand what the hell is going on here. Just reading history, I struggle to understand how we can have 100k people marching in London basically asking for genocide of the Jewish population there without even realizing that's what they're asking. I am confused by people putting on the famous map of Israel "expanding" ignoring the fact that it was the consequence of wars to get rid of them. I am really baffled at people asking them to leave because somebody else was "there first" when that logic would see most of the fucking world have to relocate.

It's all on Israel, apparently. The fact Hamas went in and basically killed old people, women and children just because they're Israelis doesn't matter and they should stop firing.

We need to stop treating these people like they don't understand words. They know exactly what they're asking and should be dealt with accordingly.
 

Madflavor

Member
Those people protesting for the destruction of Israel - do they know that this would lead to even more suffering in the region? Millions over Millions would die.

Would you feel better if I told you if these people completely won and got their way, it would be their grandchildren that'd suffer, not them.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yes, London is a city of many different cultures. But most of them aren't 15% of the population (a figure which is growing fast), aren't concentrated in the same neighborhoods, and most of them try their hardest to assimilate into the existing culture while still preserving their own culture.

It's not something specific to Arab Muslims, we have the exact same thing here in Israel with Haredi Jews. Communities that grow rapidly, that don't assimilate into the general population, and that don't respect other cultures.

And regarding the north of Hyde Park, I believe it was Edgware Road area, we just wandered around for a while so I'm not exactly sure.
The problem IMO isnt even so much assimilating. It's simply not being assholes.

In Toronto, you got tons of cultures, languages, ethnic businesses, mosques everywhere now etc.... Markham (NE part of the city) is practically all Chinese people and Chinese shops. Everyone knows the legendary Pacific Mall. Lots of parts of Scarborough are too. My first or second mortgage was in Scarborough as thats the bank that gave me the best rate from my mortgage broker. Never been there. It was a TD Bank. I go to it to sign some shit and it's all Chinese people working there and most customers are too. There's more Chinese signs than English. If any Asian people want to gravitate to certain parts of town go ahead. If you want to make your own community where it's heavy into foreign language and businesses, go ahead. Nobody says or is forcing the neighbourhoods to all live and speak like Europeans and English. So despite some huge pockets of Asian people doing their own thing, I've never seen them cause trouble.

Just dont act like jackasses to everyone else.
 
Last edited:

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
The moment she told me "you're bombing babies" I knew the conversation was lost. You can't argue with someone who equates our hard work not to hurt civilians, compared to them who did atrocities the world can not abide.

It's not like we are aiming for babies, we gave them 2 weeks to get out before we went in.
They don't understand this is a war. Before the dust had settled on the 7th, they knew what was coming. They were warned for weeks, were supposedly given support and the notice was global. No nation will ever be as formal as Israel was before this. These lunatics are saying "you're bombing babies" because they were setting Hamas/Gaza/Palestine as the victims day 1.
London is 15% Muslim by latest stats.
That's really disturbing. Granted the total population in the U.S. is far greater...it's still only about 1.1% in the U.S.

London is in deep trouble because they're not just going to leave as this gets more accelerated and there will be backlash (bombings, threats and civilian attacks).
 
Yes, London is a city of many different cultures. But most of them aren't 15% of the population (a figure which is growing fast), aren't concentrated in the same neighborhoods, and most of them try their hardest to assimilate into the existing culture while still preserving their own culture.

It's not something specific to Arab Muslims, we have the exact same thing here in Israel with Haredi Jews. Communities that grow rapidly, that don't assimilate into the general population, and that don't respect other cultures. As a result, when the separatist population gets big enough, the tolerance to all other cultures goes down the drain. But hey, maybe I just don't know London enough, and in 20 years when the Islamic population will be 30%, maybe it will still be as free and pluralistic as it is today, without any Sharia laws in place.

And regarding the north of Hyde Park, I believe it was Edgware Road area, we just wandered around for a while so I'm not exactly sure.

I know the road and the area you're talking about... it's literally a handful of cafes with the names "Baghdad" and "Cairo Cafe"... its not remotely "straight out of the Middle East". You do know most cities have neighborhoods with different concentrations of minority diaspora? Don't go to Houston, lol, they have street signs in Chinese and Chinatown even has its own Asian police force! It's terrifying! Little Bangladesh in Los Angeles is trying to turn the whole city Muslim and make everyone eat fish curry, the horror
 

DrKeo

Member
I know the road and the area you're talking about... it's literally a handful of cafes with the names "Baghdad" and "Cairo Cafe"... its not remotely "straight out of the Middle East". You do know most cities have neighborhoods with different concentrations of minority diaspora? Don't go to Houston, lol, they have street signs in Chinese and Chinatown even has its own Asian police force! It's terrifying! Little Bangladesh in Los Angeles is trying to turn the whole city Muslim and make everyone eat fish curry, the horror
I can't remember the last time a "Chinatown" mob wanted me dead. Just saying. Anyway, what he said:
The problem IMO isnt even so much assimilating. It's simply not being assholes.

In Toronto, you got tons of cultures, languages, ethnic businesses, mosques everywhere now etc.... Markham (NE part of the city) is practically all Chinese people and Chinese shops. Everyone knows the legendary Pacific Mall. Lots of parts of Scarborough are too. My first or second mortgage was in Scarborough as thats the bank that gave me the best rate from my mortgage broker. Never been there. It was a TD Bank. I go to it to sign some shit and it's all Chinese people working there and most customers are too. There's more Chinese signs than English. If any Asian people want to gravitate to certain parts of town go ahead. If you want to make your own community where it's heavy into foreign language and businesses, go ahead. Nobody says or is forcing the neighbourhoods to all live and speak like Europeans and English. So despite some huge pockets of Asian people doing their own thing, I've never seen them cause trouble.

Just dont act like jackasses to everyone else.
 
Last edited:

daffyduck

Member
I know the road and the area you're talking about... it's literally a handful of cafes with the names "Baghdad" and "Cairo Cafe"... its not remotely "straight out of the Middle East". You do know most cities have neighborhoods with different concentrations of minority diaspora? Don't go to Houston, lol, they have street signs in Chinese and Chinatown even has its own Asian police force! It's terrifying! Little Bangladesh in Los Angeles is trying to turn the whole city Muslim and make everyone eat fish curry, the horror
That doesn't sound good at all.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I can't remember the last time a "Chinatown" mob wanted me dead. Just read this.
Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Filapino cultures have a big enough presence in Toronto. Ok, maybe not so much Japanese people. But there's Koreatown areas too.

But you dont see these cultures creating a stink because they typically focus on school, work or running businesses. Not too often you'll see East Asian people big into religious mobs, chanting, hate rhetoric, stamping on flags etc...
 

DrKeo

Member
Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Filapino cultures have a big enough presence in Toronto. Ok, maybe not so much Japanese people. But there's Koreatown areas too.

But you dont see these cultures creating a stink because they typically focus on school, work or running businesses. Not too often you'll see East Asian people big into religious mobs, chanting, hate rhetoric, stamping on flags etc...
Sometimes you should be tolerant of 95% of someone's culture while denouncing the 5% that spreads hate and counters every part of Western values. It should be well enforced, it should be clear that it's not OK.
 
Last edited:

Trunx81

Member
Would you feel better if I told you if these people completely won and got their way, it would be their grandchildren that'd suffer, not them.
I highly doubt that, the vacuum of power in the region would lead to an implosion that would affect any human being in the area right away. These morons can´t think one step ahead and comprehend the consequences.
 

FingerBang

Member
We need to stop treating these people like they don't understand words. They know exactly what they're asking and should be dealt with accordingly.
Sorry, but no. I went to an extreme left-wing university and people there had no fucking idea that means "let's get rid of Israel". I don't like this extremist way of thinking. Ask them if they mean the jews should be exterminated and removed from there and see how many will actually say yes. Do many Arab immigrants think that? 100%
But I refuse to believe all those 100.000 in London meant that. The propaganda is Israel farts and 10000 babies die in Gaza, not "let's finish what Hitler started"
 
Last edited:

LordOfChaos

Member
Qatar sentences 8 Indian ex-Navy officers to death over allegedly passing information to Israel, this comes after the Indian prime minister expressed support for Israel. Yikes. Seems like they went for a softer (or just further) target than Israel or the US directly, and given there was ISI (Pakistan) involvement in the information that got them arrested, this regional conflict between really tiny nations is really expanding.


I'd almost want to see India do its joint carrier op through the strait and be like listen here you little shit give our guys back, but that would require Iran to allow them through the straight, Iran is friendly with India but also with Qatar but hates Israel funny enough.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/india/qatar-india-death-sentences-intl-hnk/index.html


Today the Indian EAM met the families of the 8 ex navy officers and is making efforts to reverse this

 

Salty Hippo

Member
Sorry, but no. I went to an extreme left-wing university and people there had no fucking idea that means "let's get rid of Israel". I don't like this extremist way of thinking. Ask them if they mean the jews should be exterminated and removed from there and see how many will actually say yes. Do many Arab immigrants think that? 100%
But I refuse to believe all those 100.000 in London meant that. The propaganda is Israel farts and 10000 babies die in Gaza, not "let's finish what Hitler started"

I didn't really follow this one protest beyond a tweet with a photo but you said they were asking for jew genocide, so you'll need to tell me exactly what words were coming out of their mouths?

Of course I don't mean every single one of the 100k people can possibly think this, what I'm saying is that anyone who is shouting stuff akin to "gas the jews" or any other clearly genocidal stuff, and anyone around them who listens to that and does not bail from the protest, THOSE people know exactly what they are protesting for.
 

FingerBang

Member
I didn't really follow this one protest beyond a tweet with a photo but you said they were asking for jew genocide, so you'll need to tell me exactly what words were coming out of their mouths?

Of course I don't mean every single one of the 100k people can possibly think this, what I'm saying is that anyone who is shouting stuff akin to "gas the jews" or any other clearly genocidal stuff, and anyone around them who listens to that and does not bail from the protest, THOSE people know exactly what they are protesting for.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, of course the people who said "gas the jews" mean what they're saying. I was referring to the people yelling "Free Palestine" and "From the river to the sea". I genuinely believe many westerners don't understand that it's not a peaceful two state solution in which Israel gives back the land they've taken since 1948, but basically the destruction of the Jewish state so that it goes back to being part of the Arab world.
 

Nonehxc

Member
Europe was very different in 1450. When Constantinople got reinforcements from Europe, they were seen as being like weird dysfunctional barbaric savages, not some sort of advanced Atlantean stormtroopers from the future. It was only after Constantinople fell that Europe went through the Renaissance or "Rebirth" where they recovered a lot of knowledge that they lost with the fall of the Western Roman Empire, largely fuelled by eastern scholars fleeing to the west with their libraries.
Nope.

Ironically, it was the muslim Arabs, during the Islamic Golden Age, who spread the vast knowledge of the Chinese, Persian, Indian, Greek, Roman etc etc and the vast additions to it or the inventions they made on their own(medicine, architecture, philosophy, aritchmetics, trigonometry, mathematics, engineering, arts, etc etc etc and a fucking lot of etcs more) into the West through the conquest of North Africa and, mainly, of my land, the Iberian Peninsula, and the intermingle between christians, muslims and jewish of all races and places with european scholars and translators that happened from 711 AD in the School of Translators in Toledo, 3hr by car from where I live. Those works would be translated, mainly from Arab, into Ladino(spanish hebrew), Mozárabe and, most importantly, Latin, which was the lingua of knowledge all over Europe, in the School of Translators of Toledo, and from there spread.

We could talk about how many 'Father of Modern Something' today were Arab muslims during the Islamic Golden Age, but just a drop of knowledge, you used hindu-arab numerals to write the only date in your post( 1450 ) on a base ten numeral system invented in China/India, which the arabs brought with them from there into the West. Which is arguably the biggest addition to mathematics.

Although the big big popular spread into Europe came from Italy, when Fibonacci brought with him those hindu-arab numerals and wrote the Liber Abbacus in 1200 AD and something, that new language of commerce and counting he discovered and studied during his commercial travels into current day Algeria, North Africa... the earliest depiction of arab numerals is in a Spanish Codex, the Codex Albeldensis or Vigilanum, which was compiled first in 881 AD by our scholars in...guess where...Toledo, and which resides at the El Escorial Library nowadays. And it predates Fibonacci's by 400 years. Also, there was a scholar who later went full Pope of Rome who also spread the hindu-arab numerals, as it was done then, between scholars and elites, which also predates Fibonacci

Here they are as they appear in the Codex Vigilanum, read from right to left as arab is written and read and marvel how EQUAL they are 1100 years later.

kSydIzM.jpg



9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0


Sadly, the smart, refined, industrious and advanced arab bunch of yesterday isn't like the devolved grime of today, which by my account, the biggest additions they've made in the last centuries to the pool of human knowledge is the 27 Ways You Can Fuck A Goat In The Ass. 🐐🍑🍌
 
Last edited:

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
Sorry, but no. I went to an extreme left-wing university and people there had no fucking idea that means "let's get rid of Israel". I don't like this extremist way of thinking. Ask them if they mean the jews should be exterminated and removed from there and see how many will actually say yes. Do many Arab immigrants think that? 100%
But I refuse to believe all those 100.000 in London meant that. The propaganda is Israel farts and 10000 babies die in Gaza, not "let's finish what Hitler started"
Wrong. No. Nope.

We need to start holding people accountable. If parents or students feel they're mature enough, old enough and whatever to attend a University. What's the point? It used to be to gain a higher education toward with diplomacy toward a particular career vocation. They're accountable. They know what "from the river to the sea" means. They know what "free Palestine" means. I too was at a liberal university so let me ask you this:

How is it they get so emotional and angry to protest the way they do? Someone is clearly (professors, fellow 'expert' students, grad students, et al) what to be motivated for when they go out to rally. They're stupid but they're not oblivious to what the context of their tantrums are over. They've been indoctrinated and had a choice to question: is what this person says about Israel/the Jews right? Or is it wrong? A 7-year old child could tell you the difference. Stop shield those who are supporting this with the: oh, well...they're just ignorant. Okay? If that's the case, they don't need to be in Uni. Send em' back to High School or to get a G.E.D.

They know. I was there too and recall having fellow students in my alma mater who would lead rallies like this for the 'letters' movement. This was early 2000's and people still didn't know much about it. They knew how to get people emotional enough to go out with signs, flags, shouting in anger. It was never peaceful because they had to motivate them. Just using the example of that time. There were similar rallies in my university protesting the Iraqi-American war which. They weren't peaceful. They knew why they were fueled to protest and they believed the louder they were, the more justified they were and others were just going to follow. Most kept their distance.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, of course the people who said "gas the jews" mean what they're saying. I was referring to the people yelling "Free Palestine" and "From the river to the sea". I genuinely believe many westerners don't understand that it's not a peaceful two state solution in which Israel gives back the land they've taken since 1948, but basically the destruction of the Jewish state so that it goes back to being part of the Arab world.
Again, we're lauding Uni students way too much here as being ignorant victims persuaded by a cause that 'they don't understand.' Why not ask these students then what "free Palestine" means? Why not ask them what "from the river to the sea" means? This isn't like the Twitter posts where people didn't know 'which sea' that was. I'm not giving credit that they know every detail because from the time I was nearly graduating from High School; teachers were giving 'lessons' on the difference between Sunni and Shi'a muslims to state: one side is peaceful vs. one side is violent. If you take their word for it without going through the history of Islam. They're the teachers...so they must be right. Because not all have to discern or ask questions. That's where most start.

Hold up there. And the Israeli's in this thread can back this up on history about that last part. Two state solution was offered by Israel. However, Israel never had to give anything back after 1948. Palestine was populated by non-Jewish Arabs after the Ottoman empire collapsed. They occupied it as 'territory' even though the land historically (West bank & Gaza strip) belonged (and still do IMO) to Israel. Israel made treaties with them to live as occupants in Palestine. Israel paid the rent, the taxes...the internet. They brought in Islam. They voted eventually voted in Hamas. They're not victims. They're perpetrators and if people knew history; they'd see what's wrong here.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Nope.

Ironically, it was the muslim Arabs, during the Islamic Golden Age, who spread the vast knowledge of the Chinese, Persian, Indian, Greek, Roman etc etc and the vast additions to it or the inventions they made on their own(medicine, architecture, philosophy, aritchmetics, trigonometry, mathematics, engineering, arts, etc etc etc and a fucking lot of etcs more) into the West through the conquest of North Africa and, mainly, of my land, the Iberian Peninsula, and the intermingle between christians, muslims and jewish of all races and places with european scholars and translators that happened from 711 AD in the School of Translators in Toledo, 3hr by car from where I live. Those works would be translated, mainly from Arab, into Ladino(spanish hebrew), Mozárabe and, most importantly, Latin, which was the lingua of knowledge all over Europe, in the School of Translators of Toledo, and from there spread.
In terms of the texts that inspired European culture to be less theocratic and more humanistic, it was totally the Greek cultural texts preserved in Constantinople that were a major inspiration. Subjects like mathematics and astronomy might be full of Arabic, but Greek is even more prevalent in western science and humanities. Abstract ideas like Arabic numbers and Star Names were not a challenge to the theocratic authority of the Roman Church in Western Europe when it came to having the last word on knowledge.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
In terms of the texts that inspired European culture to be less theocratic and more humanistic, it was totally the Greek cultural texts preserved in Constantinople that were a major inspiration. Subjects like mathematics and astronomy might be full of Arabic, but Greek is even more prevalent in western science and humanities. Abstract ideas like Arabic numbers and Star Names were not a challenge to the theocratic authority of the Roman Church in Western Europe when it came to having the last word on knowledge.
Yes. Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, etc., preserved in Constantinople. Some other works like De Rerum Natura were preserved by monks hidden away in Europe, too.
 
In terms of the texts that inspired European culture to be less theocratic and more humanistic, it was totally the Greek cultural texts preserved in Constantinople that were a major inspiration. Subjects like mathematics and astronomy might be full of Arabic, but Greek is even more prevalent in western science and humanities. Abstract ideas like Arabic numbers and Star Names were not a challenge to the theocratic authority of the Roman Church in Western Europe when it came to having the last word on knowledge.
Yeah, I believe it is commonly accepted that the fall of Constantinople and the migration of scholars towards the west led to the Renaissance.

We need to start holding people accountable
It is funny how people are trying to cancel, fire and "hunt" people over some stupid things said on Twitter, yet when people are openly chanting "gas the jews" then suddenly "they don't what they are talking about".
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
Are you trying to deny what the released hostages said? It's all Stockholm Syndrome?
Stockholm Syndrome from the Hamas' released Israeli hostages? I think we're done here. Someone tripped and stumbled into a pitfall of cuckoo.
It is funny how people are trying to cancel, fire and "hunt" people over some stupid things said on Twitter, yet when people are openly chanting "gas the jews" then suddenly "they don't what they are talking about".
That's censorship and security to go about it that way too. They understood "gas the Jews" was bad but, "from the river to the sea" they just chanted coz' everybody was doing it? I used the 7-year old conscious as an example because if a child knew this was wrong; parent or guardian will correct them. Someone who's over 18 and in college someone how didn't know what they were doing before putting on a keffiyeh, holding up anti-Semitic posters and chanting 'free Palestine' doesn't know what they're talking about? Right.

Let's say the chant changes to, "the Jews will not replace us!" We going to say they didn't know then?
 

Nonehxc

Member
In terms of the texts that inspired European culture to be less theocratic and more humanistic, it was totally the Greek cultural texts preserved in Constantinople that were a major inspiration. Subjects like mathematics and astronomy might be full of Arabic, but Greek is even more prevalent in western science and humanities. Abstract ideas like Arabic numbers and Star Names were not a challenge to the theocratic authority of the Roman Church in Western Europe when it came to having the last word on knowledge.
Arab muslims didn't went full Aloha Snackbar until later. They had quite the brainpool then, of which two stand tall in many ways, one of them philosophy: Avicenna and Averroes.

Avicenna and Neoplatonism, and most importantly, Averroes and his translations and comments on Aristotles, which permeates us to this day, predate Moerbeke direct translations from Byzantium. Although I concede Moerbeke direct translations, which where made directly from the greek texts, where much more precise, it was done because Thomas Aquinus didn't want anything to do with those grimy Sarracens dirtying the golden ideas of the Greek Philosophers. 😁

And when Moerbeke handed his translations, guess what Tom did? Yes, a fucking huge compendium of Commentaries on Greek Philosophy which is full of Avicenna's and Averroes' ideas. 🤭
 

Jenov

Member
I’ve been hearing predictions of the fall of the west due to the hordes of Islamic migrants since at least 2001. We’ve been told to just “wait a few decades” for over two decades, and yet here we are in 2023 and I don’t recall the last time anyone interjected the viewpoint of sharia law into the public discourse on gender reassignment surgery.
That’s because gender reassignment can be used as a form of conversion therapy to get rid of homosexuality. So it’s fully compatible with Islamic and Sharia law. Iran is one of the biggest countries for transgender surgeries, it fully embraces it and forces it on homosexuals because the alternative is death.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom