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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war

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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This is the problem Israel is facing and Hamas is not. The world holds us accountable but treats Hamas as infants, kinda like what's happening in other places where the "smart" people think others are stupid.


Thats due to many reasons:

1. There's a fraction of Jews in the world compared to Muslims

2. People always let bottom feeders more latitude to do and say dumb shit. But if anyone who is in a better position wants to say something similar it's seen as immature and oppressive. It goes for companies too. If every company's janitors, cafeteria staff and junior staff said dumb shit nobody would care. It doesn't matter if there's tons of them. But if the small number of CEOs in the world banded together and said dumb shit it would be seen as draconian and they should be fired. Thats because they are expected to know better and act more profrssional
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
According to which international law? Israel has no exclusive right to expel the people there. The Israelis were settled there after the Second World War by a vote of the Western states because they didn't want them in their midst - and that's that! And although Germany is 100% guilty and they should pay for the damage, not only with compensation for war crimes but also with land, this right kind of justice was totally ignored.
Other countries in the Middle East were made to pay for something they had nothing to do with, the Middle East has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it is clear that there can be no peace.
The Arab states were totally ignored in this vote from the very beginning.
Because today's Israel was the land of the Israelis a thousand years ago, does the West see this as a totally irrevocable argument?
If that is the benchmark justification that the Western world puts forward, then the USA would have to give back to the Indians all the land that was expropriated from them by the European colonists and dissolve the USA itself, and this expropriation was not so long ago.
Australia would also have to give their land to the Natives. Half of Europe would have to give part of their land back to their neighbors...
But the Arabs see it as an argument too, that they were there first. So who's to say when first is first? It also doesn't matter like you said, it was a British mandate on Palestine and the British and UN after WW2 decided to partition it and give half and half of Palestine to Jews and Arabs.

There were Jews in Israel all the time, even when they were expelled, Jews still remained in the land.

EDIT: I guess he deleted it.
 
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DrKeo

Member
But the Arabs see it as an argument too, that they were there first. So who's to say when first is first? It also doesn't matter like you said, it was a British mandate on Palestine and the British and UN after WW2 decided to partition it and give half and half of Palestine to Jews and Arabs.

There were Jews in Israel all the time, even when they were expelled, Jews still remained in the land.

EDIT: I guess he deleted it.
Yup, my grandma's branch of the family never left Israel. They were part of the Jewish community in Hebron for centuries, Haredi Jews. She survived the 1929 Hebron massacre as a teenager, an Arab neighbor hid her and her family. After the massacre, they moved to Jerusalem, and my grandma left religion behind.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
But the Arabs see it as an argument too, that they were there first. So who's to say when first is first? It also doesn't matter like you said, it was a British mandate on Palestine and the British and UN after WW2 decided to partition it and give half and half of Palestine to Jews and Arabs.

There were Jews in Israel all the time, even when they were expelled, Jews still remained in the land.

EDIT: I guess he deleted it.

If being first was the dominant rule, then Muslims would have to return the whole of north Africa, because the Roman Empire and the Aksum Empire were Cristian.
And Muslims would have to return Pakistan to India.

But of course they will never do such a thing, because that rule only applies to everyone else.
It's sheer hypocrisy, nothing more.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
If being first was the dominant rule, then Muslims would have to return the whole of north Africa, because the Roman Empire and the Aksum Empire were Cristian.
And Muslims would have to return Pakistan to India.

But of course they will never do such a thing, because that rule only applies to everyone else.
It's sheer hypocrisy, nothing more.
It only applies really to Israel and the Jews. We also can't win wars and conquer territory which was lost by people who instigated the wars.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
The father who had on video said he was relieved to hear his daughter was dead instead of captive by Hamas as the better option, has been reunited with his daughter Emily, a case of mistaken dead identity early in this conflict. Man, what a hellish roller coaster of emotion that would have been, her family had already been grieving. Glad she's alive and I hope well.

hr1nu9zeql2c1.jpg
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
Yes, it is abhorrent and factually, ethically, and morally wrong to even attempt to draw an equivalence between what Israel has done versus Hamas (and hezbollah, etc).

If you were surrounded by neighbors that constantly threw rocks at you, at your house, at your car, and occassionally came over and killed your pets, raped your wife, and abducted your kids, is it morally equivalent when you call the HOA on them, the police, or go over there and knock heads around at times?
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
Listen to your wife. The core of this isn't politics. You won't find middle ground negotiable with Hamas, nor their occupants in Gaza, nor groups which are pro-Palestine. They have a clear goal to destroy all Jews and overthrow Israel. Children are innocent but Hamas sees them as shields.

If it helps start reading the thread back to page 1 too. Lot of historical information on the enemy here as well as Israel's having to deal with this for what feels like an eternity.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
I get that it can be confusing deciding who’s right or wrong when you look at the results and just see dead kids. But all you need to know is this: one side wants dead kids as the means to their ends, the other side does what it can to minimize the dead kids, but is in a shitty situation because the other side is trying to maximize the number of dead kids.

That one side wants dead kids and the other doesn’t is pretty much irrefutable. I’d choose the side of the ones not trying to get kids killed.
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?

Saying you're pro-Palestine in this conflict means you're siding with Hamas. You're siding with a homophobic (In Gaza the punishment for being gay is up to ten years in prison), racist terrorist organisation that rules Gaza with an iron fist and has no problems killing children and raping women. A terrorist group who want to wipe Israeli off the map.

Are these really people you want to support?
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
I think the best comparison is WW2. The allies bombarded Germany and killed over 2m people, much less than Germans killed from the allies (not including the extermination of Jews), would you also say both sides are bad?

Israel is always dragged into these wars, they make us (I'm Israeli) do this, and trust me, we don't want to. We want to move the fuck on with out lives, but after 10/7 it's clear we can't go on like this. We can't get 18 more years of rockets, or an occasional massacre. While on this massacre they specifically targeted babies, kids, women, elderly. We don't. We have terrorists targets, we gave them 2 weeks to evacuate, and it's not our fault they are hiding between civilian targets.
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?
Your wife was 100% in the right. Hamas wasn't weaponized by oppression. They were weaponized by Iran, Qatar, Syria, etc. Those regimes and all these terror groups want one thing, and that's the extermination of all Jews. Flat out. There is no middle ground. Israel was strategically attacked from multiple sides, all with the same goal in mind. They want to wipe the entire country out.

Which makes all of the idiots out there protesting for Palestine look really disgusting and ignorant.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.
Hamas fires rockets from atop a hospital building.

If you don’t fire back, they continue firing rockets from the hospital rooftops. They won’t stop. If you do fire back, civilian casualties are inevitable.

The Iron Dome doesn’t have unlimited ammunition. Plus, it’s not foolproof. Some of Hamas’ rockets make it through. Israeli civilians are dying.

Do you fire back and take out Hamas terrorists firing from the hospital rooftop? Or do you sit back and let them fire with impunity? While you are actively trying to find a better way, rockets are continuing to be fired from atop the hospital and Israeli children are dying.

What do you do? No matter your decision, children will die.
 

Ironbunny

Member
So I’m ignorant and largely avoid these kinds of world topics . Religion , politics, etc. Too much corruption and manipulation to know the truth.

That all said my wife is pro Israel and is very politically active.

She jokingly said I’m anti semetic today because she said I’m pro Palestine. I brushed it off and said “No. I think both sides have done horrible things to each other over that bit of land for a very long time.” She proceeded to have a yelling session at me, and once she was done all I said was you will never convince me killing children is ok no matter what your cause. There has to be a better way.

With all that said, am I in the wrong in this and what more do I need for education for myself on the matter ? I get Hamas is objectively a bunch of douche canoe terrorists that need to be stopped and were likely weaponized from years of oppression, but no matter the cause their actions are unforgivable. Im just curious if my middle ground take is level headed or ignorant to say both sides are bad ?

Lets say your wife and daughter were at the Peace party rave in Israel. Your wife was first cut from the leg legiments so she cant escape. Then she was raped by many men to the point that her pelvis was broken. They raped her and then shot her in the head while raping her. Then they cut her breasts off and played with them. All this time your daughter was witnessing this happening. After it was all done they did the same to her. Whats your measured response?
 
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Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I should’ve asked for clarification in my original post or stated more thoroughly that I’m aware Hamas is objectively the evil here.

I wasn’t sure however if Palestine people not affiliated with Hamas are also on the wrong side of this. I was under the impression that Israel had done bad things in the past to Palestinians that had no affiliation to Hamas, and Palestinians had also been horrible to Israel too.

Hence my “both sides “ suck. Hamas I completely agree has no silver linings of any kind.
 

Ironbunny

Member
I should’ve asked for clarification in my original post or stated more thoroughly that I’m aware Hamas is objectively the evil here.

I wasn’t sure however if Palestine people not affiliated with Hamas are also on the wrong side of this. I was under the impression that Israel had done bad things in the past to Palestinians that had no affiliation to Hamas, and Palestinians had also been horrible to Israel too.

Hence my “both sides “ suck. Hamas I completely agree has no silver linings of any kind.

Its known that some of the atrocities where done by Palestine people who got through the fence when Hamas did. But there are no pure people on either side of this. ...But how many Jews would be left in Israel if the roles were reversed?
 
I personally can't gain much sympathy to Palestinians after all I have seen. Not a normal person would have a sympathy towards psychos cheering after a person was hung on the pole and happily brainwashing children into dying as martyrs. That's inhuman.
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
I should’ve asked for clarification in my original post or stated more thoroughly that I’m aware Hamas is objectively the evil here.

I wasn’t sure however if Palestine people not affiliated with Hamas are also on the wrong side of this. I was under the impression that Israel had done bad things in the past to Palestinians that had no affiliation to Hamas, and Palestinians had also been horrible to Israel too.

Hence my “both sides “ suck. Hamas I completely agree has no silver linings of any kind.
Hard for me to even see sides since Palestine never was a state. However, they (the civilians) voted Hamas into power as it's all Islam. The civilians cheered on Hamas during previous incidents. The problem is Israel has islamic extremist who've been causing problems within their borders for eons. Yet the people (not soley Hamas) still chant 'from the river to the sea.' All countries under islam have on or several groups like this and do nothing to stop them.

Like I said, read from page 1 of this thread forward and if you're not convinced of who the enemy is, I can't help you.
 
However, they (the civilians) voted Hamas into power as it's all Islam. The civilians cheered on Hamas during previous incidents
It is a basically a situation where people were happy when Hamas was attacking Israel, but they suddenly became disillusioned when rockets began to fly into their direction. Their reaction was probably like "why us??"
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
It is a basically a situation where people were happy when Hamas was attacking Israel, but they suddenly became disillusioned when rockets began to fly into their direction. Their reaction was probably like "why us??"
There are videos of civilians cheering on Hamas the evening of the attack in this thread. Prior to Hamas' being voted in, they still rejected 2-state offers. Why? Because to their medieval religion 2-state won't give them 'free palestine.' Israel has treated them better thsn their own people and yet they sacrifice their children all for allah.
 

winjer

Gold Member
I should’ve asked for clarification in my original post or stated more thoroughly that I’m aware Hamas is objectively the evil here.

I wasn’t sure however if Palestine people not affiliated with Hamas are also on the wrong side of this. I was under the impression that Israel had done bad things in the past to Palestinians that had no affiliation to Hamas, and Palestinians had also been horrible to Israel too.

Hence my “both sides “ suck. Hamas I completely agree has no silver linings of any kind.

It's a war, so there are always casualties. But a few things to consider.
For starters, there has never been a Palestinian state in the whole of history. Bu there has been a kingdom of Israel.
After the end of the kingdom of Israel, the jewish people have been driven away from their land, or murdered. Both by Muslims and Christians.
After the end of the Ottoman Empire, there were proposals to create two states for Palestinians and Jews.
The Palestinian leadership has always denied this, because they demand the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the jewish people.
When the Israeli state was create, it was done with the vote of the majority of the nations in the UN. Including the whole of the Soviet block.
The entire world understood the need to create a Jewish state, to avoid the repeat of the Holocaust. Or the Inquisitions. Or the Pogroms.
As soon as Israel was created, their neighbors attacked Israel, in an attempt to destroy it and kill the Jewish people there. Israel won, otherwise, we would have seen another holocaust.
The neighboring Arab countries, have since declared war on Israel, several times.
Eventually, even these countries realized it was best to normalize relationships with Israel and promote peace. The first was Egypt.
And recently, Saudi Arabia was about to normalize relations with Israel.
But still, groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, continue their attacks against Israel.
But there is a great difference between how Israel wages war and how Hamas wages war. Israel targets military assets, but sometimes, there are civilian casualties. Just like in any other war.
Hamas targets civilian targets, not military targets. And they purposefully place their personnel and military equipment in civilian infrastructure, such as schools and hospitals, as to cause more civilian casualties and blame Israel for those.
Israel creates safety rooms and bunkers to protect it's civilians. Hamas creates tunnels and bunkers to protect only members of Hamas and deny the entry to any Palestinian civilians. And claim that protecting Palestinians is a job for the UN and Israel.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Awesome. Thanks for the info guys.

Going to let my wife know I got a little less dumb and apologize for thinking what I did.
Another thing. Yahya Sinwar sat in Israeli prison as a convicted terrorist, had a brain tumor and was cured and operated in Israel by Israeli doctors. He was set free in the Gilad Shalit deal in 2010.

He orchestrated the massacre.

It won't matter what we give them, how much good will there is, they only have 1 goal.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I don't really see myself as a conservative person generally. But for just the return of sense, I see this as my only hope in dumping Trudy and Jagmeet at the same time next election.

 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
Result of dumbed down education system in this country and social media influence. Only gonna get worse.
That's a large part of it. The parents of these kids graduated from high school in what, 2010? Kids parenting kids as the maturity of both is without excuse.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Three quarters of the students at that high school can't read, but they can be indoctrinated on TikTok very effectively

F_4BcetWcAAd9y1
They are changing the way they track these numbers so they won't need to deal with it. Soon it'll be 90% of students can self identify and 85% find joy in going to school.

But honestly, you don't need to read to become an influencer. We are going to put progress on hold for that.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Hate is spreading. Good thing Ireland's PM is up to the task.

EDIT: happened two weeks ago, but nobody reported it.

 
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Salty Hippo

Member
Hate is spreading. Good thing Ireland's PM is up to the task.

EDIT: happened two weeks ago, but nobody reported it.



Is this about the Dublin knife attack where a brazilian immigrant saved 3 kids and a woman by battering his bike helmet on a fucking terrorist that the media and the police are too afraid to confirm the identity of?

We are built differently. :cool:
 
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Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
Three quarters of the students at that high school can't read, but they can be indoctrinated on TikTok very effectively

F_4BcetWcAAd9y1
Is it just me that thinks 16-to-1 student/teacher is fucking luxury? I went to school with 31 others, now I see private schools around me are the same, in fact in France they have less kids in class in public than private.
 
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