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[Topher]

I'm thinking Hamas's actions have basically given Israel authority to absorb Gaza once and for all without becoming some kind of pariah state. I feel for the innocent people that will suffer, but Hamas has shown that they're basically just ISIS 2.0.

No civil society can condone what is essentially a terrorist-driven state.

I think what to do with Gaza and its people is going to be a difficult matter once Hamas is dealt with. The world, for the most part, understands Israel's reaction to this terrorist attack, but how they handle the enemy once defeated, particularly civilians, will be heavily scrutinized. So yeah, Hamas can get fucked over a million times and most of the world won't bat an eyelash, but there will still be ~2 million people living there when it is all said and done. No easy answers there.

 

[Topher]

I have no idea whether this would be a workable plan but I would:

- Try to evacuate all women, children, and old people from Gaza, or try to make a deal with Egypt to temporarily take them.
- Once that's done, make loudspeaker announcements to the effect that any men of fighting age still inside Gaza after some cut-off point/deadline will be treated as enemy combatants.
- Make clear that anyone who does surrender will be screened and checked to see if they might be a combatant and finger printed
- Then... conduct the ground invasion

All of that in addition to bolstering the border with the Gaza strip to prevent a repeat of what just happened.

The problem with all of that is that it requires the unconditional surrender of Hamas first. That ain't happening. Hamas has to be removed first and that will require the invasion.

 

[ADiTAR]

Obviously Hamas going into villages and music festivals and massacring civilians is terrible. They lost all possible respect as soon as they stop targeting actual soldiers.

The problem now is that Israel has said they are going to essentially level Gaza but they are also blockading it, cutting of all utilities and Egypt probably won't let the civilians over to their side. It doesn't seem like the best plan to actually resolving the situation. It sounds more like "we'll just kill literally everyone in Gaza so that there cannot possibly be any terrorists".

Not saying that I have all the answers, just thinking the current "answer" is probably not the right one.

There's a bus full of people and terrorist heading your way on the road, you got an RPG on your shoulder and your family behind you. The bus is not going to stop ever and you can't move. Do you shoot the bus?

 

[DeafTourette]

Sucks for the innocent people hamas are terrorizing, but the pro israel media hates it when the table turns huh?
What happened in israel have been happening to folks in Palestine for decades now.
War is war and i dont see any other way for a brutally occupied nation to fight back other than thru terror.
Hope the usa learns its lesson and stays the fuck out of this mess. They cant be for the occupiers in one war and then against the occupiers in another war, which is it?
I honestly believe that jews and arabs need to solve their own problems and if we was not over there picking sides and building up one nation to crush another nation this issue would have resolved itself decades ago.

Fuck off with that!

They can do what pre-Winnie ANC did... Attack the Military... Nelson did NOT attack civilians! Fuck ALL THE WAY OFF WITH THAT SHIT!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I have no idea whether this would be a workable plan but I would:

- Try to evacuate all women, children, and old people from Gaza, or try to make a deal with Egypt to temporarily take them.
- Once that's done, make loudspeaker announcements to the effect that any men of fighting age still inside Gaza after some cut-off point/deadline will be treated as enemy combatants.
- Make clear that anyone who does surrender will be screened and checked to see if they might be a combatant and finger printed
- Then... conduct the ground invasion

All of that in addition to bolstering the border with the Gaza strip to prevent a repeat of what just happened.

That's got to be the craziest agreement ever. Wow.

 

[ADiTAR]

I have no idea whether this would be a workable plan but I would:

- Try to evacuate all women, children, and old people from Gaza, or try to make a deal with Egypt to temporarily take them.
- Once that's done, make loudspeaker announcements to the effect that any men of fighting age still inside Gaza after some cut-off point/deadline will be treated as enemy combatants.
- Make clear that anyone who does surrender will be screened and checked to see if they might be a combatant and finger printed
- Then... conduct the ground invasion

All of that in addition to bolstering the border with the Gaza strip to prevent a repeat of what just happened.

There should be no border with Gaza, Gaza should be annexed to Israel and its people can find better life somewhere else. Either with 72 virgins, the sea, Qatar or Egypt. There are 50 Mulsim countries, they can take refugees.

 

[BadBurger]

Sucks for the innocent people hamas are terrorizing, but the pro israel media hates it when the table turns huh?
What happened in israel have been happening to folks in Palestine for decades now.
War is war and i dont see any other way for a brutally occupied nation to fight back other than thru terror.
Hope the usa learns its lesson and stays the fuck out of this mess. They cant be for the occupiers in one war and then against the occupiers in another war, which is it?
I honestly believe that jews and arabs need to solve their own problems and if we was not over there picking sides and building up one nation to crush another nation this issue would have resolved itself decades ago.

My dude, Israel has hardly ever killed people who didn't first attack others. Hamas, Hezbollah (however that's spelled), etc, has a long history of using children soldiers and provoking the IDF. How many decades have they been bombing civilians in pizza parlors and coffee shops?

There's no equivalency here in my mind. These gruesome villains are terrorists, and I think it's gross to try to compare Israel defending themselves with them.

 

[DeafTourette]

There should be no border with Gaza, Gaza should be annexed to Israel and its people can find better life somewhere else. Either with 72 virgins, the sea, Qatar or Egypt. There are 50 Mulsim countries, they can take refugees.

WOW! So force all those families out of their homes .. like what the West Bank is doing with the settlements... Just fuck everyone who didn't support Hamas?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Really?

So Israeli paragliding soldiers and civilians in pick up trucks go around shooting Palestinians in plain view in streets and music festivals huh?

USA and UN needs to get involved. Allies and they always fight back against terrorists. Israel with only 10 million people is clearly outnumbered and surrounded.

The best wish any terrorist supporter wants is no USA involvement because they know when Americans are involved they'll get their asses kicked in. Thats like someone saying USA should stay out of WWII and let Europe and Russia handle Germans by themselves.

The US is already as involved as it's going to be. The announcement of the Carrier Strike Groups movement was a clear message that no outside forces will interfere and I assume that it is also providing Israel with intelligence and strategic assistance.


Beyond that the US is not going to get DIRECTLY involved unless something completely unimaginable takes place. They will not let a single boot touch the ground unless it was literally the last possible resort.

 

[Nikodemos]

Fuck off with that!

They can do what pre-Winnie ANC did... Attack the Military... Nelson did NOT attack civilians! Fuck ALL THE WAY OFF WITH THAT SHIT!

This.
Had Hamas limited its attack to military bases, captured soldiers for hostage negotiations, entered a few towns without shooting anybody, broadcasted their message, then left, they would've scored a massive political victory.

Instead, they went full-on ISIS headchopper. And, just like ISIS, they need killin'.

 

[ADiTAR]

WOW! So force all those families out of their homes .. like what the West Bank is doing with the settlements... Just fuck everyone who didn't support Hamas?

Yes. I think people here don't get it. You can't reason with them, they don't want reason.

It's either them or us for them. The majority of people in Gaza support Hamas and what they've done.

There's no coming back from this, you rip what you sow.

 

[DeafTourette]

Yes. I think people here don't get it. You can't reason with them, they don't want reason.

It's either them or us for them. The majority of people in Gaza support Hamas and what they've done.

There's no coming back from this, you rip what you sow.

Dude... The people in Gaza voted ONCE in 2007... They don't have CHOICE there! It's like you don't get it... HAMAS LORDS OVER THEM! You think the people there have a fucking CHOICE? Hamas took over ... They didn't know they would renege on their campaign promises and STARVE them.... Something you even admitted Hamas does. Admit it .. you just want them all dead. You're just as bad as Hamas!

Oh... And it's REAP what you sow. Not rip... (busting your balls and trying to get you to laugh ...)

 

[supernova8]

There's a bus full of people and terrorist heading your way on the road, you got an RPG on your shoulder and your family behind you. The bus is not going to stop ever and you can't move. Do you shoot the bus?

It's not a bus though. It's a piece of land with a mix of militants and civilians. Nice try though.

 

[El Pistolero]

What should Israel do in response to these attacks in your opinion?

Dismantle Hamas once and for all, and try to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible. Easier said than done! I understand Israel's anger, and I expect its fury, given how hurt they must have been at the tragedy and horror inflicted by the barbarians...but just as I feel for the victims of this side, I do for the innocents of the other side...
I was hopeful that a possible, albeit unlikely peace configuration would somehow emerge, but that idea is burried. Truly saddening...

 

[Topher]

Dismantle Hamas once and for all, and try to minimize civil casualties as much as possible.

Agree

 

[IDKFA]

 

[Jsisto]

It’s easy to sit here and commentate without having any personal stakes in this. But just imagine if there was a video online of your mother being tortured and decapitated. Can you even imagine what feelings that would bring out in you? I don’t even want to imagine. That’s the kind of shit a lot of people are going to be feeling. Not a soul on here, resetera, twitter, etc., would be calling for peace. You’d be screaming at the top of your lungs for retribution. I get it. Revenge begets more revenge and it’s part of the reason this happened in the first place. But I also am damn sure if the current Israeli regime didn’t declare war and commit to wiping Hamas off the face of the earth, you’d see an uprising and probably a coup, and end up with someone who’d be willing to do far worse. And I say that as someone who is not exactly a fan of Bibi.

 

[pennythoughts]

A ground invasion seems like a guaranteed way of Israeli troop casualties numbering into the thousands or even higher. I would hope Israel does not repeat America's mistake of lingering around in Iraq and attempting to kick the doors in of every house. Missile strikes penetrating tunnels and targeting known infrastructure that benefits Hamas seems to be the best way of maximizing damage to Hamas while minimizing harm to Palestinians.

And I know people lurk this thread, hoping for a juicy screengrab for their Discords so here ya go: We've already seen Hamas spokesmen lie directly to the media about their attacks, boldly stating that there were no civilian casualties. If they're willing to lie about that, what else are they willing to lie about?

 

[gaming_again]

So wait, you "misgender" someone on social media, they show up and give you a talking to or haul you away, but they do anything to actual terrorism support? They just sit there and smile?

Correct.

 

[ADiTAR]

It's not a bus though. It's a piece of land with a mix of militants and civilians. Nice try though.

Gotcha.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

I remember the Mayor of London asking to calm down in London or something, and people thought he meant the Jews, and I was like, nope.

That twat needs to go, and for anyone to say London is fine is a total nonsense. It's not exactly a secret it's gone down the toilet and getting worse.

 

[ADiTAR]

That twat needs to go, and for anyone to say London is fine is a total nonsense. It's not exactly a secret it's gone down the toilet and getting worse.

Someday the West will realize what they've done.

 

[ADiTAR]

IDF tells Gazans to flee to Egypt while they still can.

IDF tells Gazans to flee to Egypt while they still can

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[ShadowNate]

So about the UN tweet posted here.
It looks like they had multiple moments of silence (one was about the Earthquake in Afghanistan too)
They did have one explicitly about Hamas terrorist attack on Israel:

It was earlier.

The other tweet is of course worded terribly, but considering the speaker for that one, it's not very surprising.

 

[Bigbelly]

Wild that Hamas who Israel helped with the purpose of splintering Palestine has become so powerful.
This has really been like Israel’s one 9/11.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

IDF tells Gazans to flee to Egypt while they still can.

IDF tells Gazans to flee to Egypt while they still can

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

I'm off to bed. Canadian Thanksgiving weekend really screwed up my waking hours. Had big fam dinner Sunday, stayed up and woke up today at 1 pm. lol.

Tomorrow when I'm at work, I'll check the news to see what's happened in the 6 hours in between.

Who knows what will happen, but this definitely doesn't sound like Israel will nail Gaza and thats the end of it. It'll probably be a big back and forth of rocket attacks and ground assaults for months. Who knows. But that whole area of the world involving the mid east and Russia/all the former Soviet states is always a hotbed. It's crazy. Pull up a map of earth on Google and like 95% of crisis wars happen in a certain portion of the globe.

 

[Leopold]

No one asked what "what of the civilians" when Allied Forces toppled Nazi Germany. The principle is the same. We will deal with the regime and then deal with the populace.

 

[Nikodemos]

Wild that Hamas who Israel helped with the purpose of splintering Palestine has become so powerful.
This has really been like Israel’s one 9/11.

Starting in the 2010s, Bibi decided to prop up Hamas because Fatah was no longer a convenient bogeyman. Fatah had resolved to stop Arafat-era-style violent actions, and became a bunch of grifting corrupt rentseekers, a.k.a. your typical "democratic" Eastern world regime. Worse, Fatah had managed to gain partial recognition from various international organizations.
This was a problem for Bibi, since he needed a genuinely violent adversary for his political rhetoric to work. So he sidelined Fatah on every occasion, and made deals directly with Hamas, knowing full well those throatcutters would never stop attacking Israelis. He had hoped the intel services and army would be on alert for any real threat coming from Hamas. Unfortunately, he also decided to go full-retard with his powergrab "reforms", and had the army and intel services purged of any officers who resisted his idiotic actions.

As the great Apollo Osiris said in Tropic Thunder, never go full-retard.

 

[funkygunther]

No one asked what "what of the civilians" when Allied Forces toppled Nazi Germany. The principle is the same. We will deal with the regime and then deal with the populace.

now we’re talking!

unfortunately since then we‘ve had the botched war attempts of Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq alongside multiple insurgencies and have decided, if a country wants to be part of the international community, that civilian lives do matter

or just find a good way to spin all the deaths, that’ll work in our system too

 

[MisterFalcon]

So about the UN tweet posted here.
It looks like they had multiple moments of silence (one was about the Earthquake in Afghanistan too)
They did have one explicitly about Hamas terrorist attack on Israel:

It was earlier.

Weird how the representatives from Bolivia, Qatar and Bangladesh had to leave urgently to take a piss or something just at this moment.

 

[Embearded]

There should be no border with Gaza, Gaza should be annexed to Israel and its people can find better life somewhere else. Either with 72 virgins, the sea, Qatar or Egypt. There are 50 Mulsim countries, they can take refugees.

One of the most stupid things i've read here. Palestine was already there when Israel was formed. The terrorist attack of the past days does not clear Israeli crimes against Palestinians and of course not everyone in Palestine sides with Hamas.

 

[MisterFalcon]

One of the most stupid things i've read here. Palestine was already there when Israel was formed. The terrorist attack of the past days does not clear Israeli crimes against Palestinians and of course not everyone in Palestine sides with Hamas.

All of what was supposed to be Palestine was quickly annexed by Egypt and Jordan which was accepted by the PLO when it was founded. Only when those territories were lost in 1967 did Palestine suddenly become 'West Bank' and 'Gaza Strip' instead of 'everywhere else'.

 

[ADiTAR]

One of the most stupid things i've read here. Palestine was already there when Israel was formed. The terrorist attack of the past days does not clear Israeli crimes against Palestinians and of course not everyone in Palestine sides with Hamas.

There was never a country called Palestine. It was a very large area coined after the Greeks. When the Ottoman empire fell after WWI, the winner of the war (UK/France) divided that territory into countries, like Lebanon, Jordan, and left a small sliver of that area. The Balfour declaration designated part of that area to a Jewish state. So yeah, Palestine was actually Israel+Jordan+Lebanon+part of Syria. Should they all be free?

After the Holocaust the world realize it has a Jew problem, so in order to rid of their Jews, they decided to give us a state. Not the best place, I would've preferred Canada tbh (I like cold weather), but you get what you get and you don't get upset. The Arabs who lived in the area called Palestine also got a state of their own.

After the declaration of forming the state of Israel in 1948, the Egyptians and Jordanians fought with the Arabs who didn't accept the terms known as the Israeli independence war (they're calling it their Nakbe I think). They lost. Israel pushed them out and conquered the part of the land that was supposed to be theirs. To the victor the spoils, if they didn't start a war the Palestinians would have a state.

There were more wars since that time, all of which Israel won, conquared more land, made peace deals where we gave some land back. And this is where we are now.

Israel can't let Hamas live any longer in the Gaza strip, and since the Gazans only live in the hope of annihilating Israel, which they've shown time and again, it means that Gaza should be annexed and it's people flee.

 

[ADiTAR]

All of what was supposed to be Palestine was quickly annexed by Egypt and Jordan which was accepted by the PLO when it was founded. Only when those territories were lost in 1967 did Palestine suddenly become 'West Bank' and 'Gaza Strip' instead of 'everywhere else'.

People don't know history, they think non-binari is a thing and Hamas are militants. Smart phones really made people dump.

 

[ADiTAR]

They are just anti-zionists... When people tell you who they are, believe them.

 

[faraany3k]

So anyone can tell me how utterly failed Mossad and IDF in defending its people from a bunch of barbarians. I mean US billions are being wasted for no reason.

 

[ADiTAR]

So anyone can tell me how utterly failed Mossad and IDF in defending its people from a bunch of barbarians. I mean US billions are being wasted for no reason.

US money doesn't go to Mossad or IDF, US money is being used to buy weapons from US arms companies. This is what the money is for, it's doesn't actually go to salaries of people, it's a bit like money laundering.

There's another layer of problem here, where our Prime Minister is a coward who wants to grab onto the reins of power and doesn't care anymore about the country he used to care so much about. He didn't listen and ordered the army to protect groups of small settlers in the West Bank. He will pay, but first, Hamas will pay.

 

[Madserb2023]

This oppression dynamic is going to be the left's trojan horse. I can understand being pro Palestinian but Pro Hamas. I am against Assad but I don't support ISIS. Hamas are the killing gay people kind of Islamic fundamentalism. They are like the Taliban. They would behead half the so called lefties who support them. You can be oppressed and be a evil person at the same time. Some of the worst degenerates of WW2 were so the called oppressed who sided with the Nazis.

 

[Roufianos]

They are just anti-zionists... When people tell you who they are, believe them.

Really concerning how many terrorists and terrorist sympathisers have been let into the West.

 

[ADiTAR]

Really concerning how many terrorists and terrorist sympathisers have been let into the West.

If they've said gas the non-binari, they would spend the night in jail.

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

The honorable delegate from Qatar just happened to be absent at that moment, what a shame!

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

They are just anti-zionists... When people tell you who they are, believe them.

I would not feel safe having any of those individuals as a neighbor.

 

[pennythoughts]

No way Bibi should be able to survive this politically.

 

[Embearded]

There was never a country called Palestine. It was a very large area coined after the Greeks. When the Ottoman empire fell after WWI, the winner of the war (UK/France) divided that territory into countries, like Lebanon, Jordan, and left a small sliver of that area. The Balfour declaration designated part of that area to a Jewish state. So yeah, Palestine was actually Israel+Jordan+Lebanon+part of Syria. Should they all be free?

After the Holocaust the world realize it has a Jew problem, so in order to rid of their Jews, they decided to give us a state. Not the best place, I would've preferred Canada tbh (I like cold weather), but you get what you get and you don't get upset. The Arabs who lived in the area called Palestine also got a state of their own.

After the declaration of forming the state of Israel in 1948, the Egyptians and Jordanians fought with the Arabs who didn't accept the terms known as the Israeli independence war (they're calling it their Nakbe I think). They lost. Israel pushed them out and conquered the part of the land that was supposed to be theirs. To the victor the spoils, if they didn't start a war the Palestinians would have a state.

There were more wars since that time, all of which Israel won, conquared more land, made peace deals where we gave some land back. And this is where we are now.

Israel can't let Hamas live any longer in the Gaza strip, and since the Gazans only live in the hope of annihilating Israel, which they've shown time and again, it means that Gaza should be annexed and it's people flee.

You are right, but by Palestinians i mean the local people who already lived there, the Arabs. You are also right that i do not know local history. You are wrong to assume that everyone in Gaza wanted this to happen or that they collectively hate Israel.
One could easily say that Israelites also want Gazans annihilated.

 

[Dice]

So today I am reading that Israel has potentially 100,000 troops that are going to purge Hamas from Gaza. With this knowledge it is confirmed that any criticism of them destroying buildings as terrorist revenge against civilians is completely idiotic. Anyone who knows anything about urban warfare knows that a high position is extremely advantageous. Already for basic rifle fire, yet much, much more so with rockets. If you are sending in a lot of troops at once this is magnified multiple times over and you can easily get into "fish in a barrel" situations. Flatten those buildings and now they have less high ground and also less ground level floors to hide in. Israel is doing what they said they would do in a manner that will minimize IDF losses.

 

[Ozriel]

War is war and i dont see any other way for a brutally occupied nation to fight back other than thru terror.

it’s really crazy for you to say “I don’t see any other option for them aside from killing and raping women and children” when they literally stormed military bases and blew up a tank. So they clearly have the ways and means of going after purely military targets and even succeeding. But they deliberately flew into a festival and shot hundreds of unarmed citizens even after assaulting military bases and police stations. Went house to house gunning down elderly women and children.

how do you defend this?

 

[pesaddict]

https://x.com/RamAbdu/status/1711297089605345428?s=20

Justmuslim on Instagram: "This video was sent in from a friend. I appreciate you and your family so much. This is a clip from ‘How Isr@eli Apartheid Destroyed My Hometown’ on Youtube. I feel it is important to say in the caption of all these posts th

35 likes, 1 comments - justmuslim on October 10, 2023: "This video was sent in from a friend. I appreciate you and your family so much. This is a clip fr..."

www.instagram.com

 

[ADiTAR]

You are right, but by Palestinians i mean the local people who already lived there, the Arabs. You are also right that i do not know local history. You are wrong to assume that everyone in Gaza wanted this to happen or that they collectively hate Israel.
One could easily say that Israelites also want Gazans annihilated.

Today yes, most Israelites want Gaza annihilated. Not Gazans, just Gaza.

First, everyone in Gaza hates Israel. I can understand why. But not everyone celebrated what happened, most.

 

[DeafTourette]

No one asked what "what of the civilians" when Allied Forces toppled Nazi Germany. The principle is the same. We will deal with the regime and then deal with the populace.

No one asked that because the military kept it AT THE MILITARY... they didn't target CIVILIANS... The only time they did was towards Japan at the tail end of the war. It was WIDELY understood that the US military didn't bomb civvies... Unlike the SS.

 

[Slicker than your average]

WOW! So force all those families out of their homes .. like what the West Bank is doing with the settlements... Just fuck everyone who didn't support Hamas?

No point arguing with this clown. He said the IDF never target civilians and haven't in the past without sarcasm.
Clearly his solution is simple, a final one. He like many of the fanatics won't be happy until they're all ethnically cleansed.

He also just posted a link saying the IDF tells Gazans to flee to Egypt.. which clearly means they're going to target civilians.

Oops.

So does anyone know why the Saudis pulled out of talking to the Israelis? It's quite obvious who launched the attack first. Doesn't make sense.