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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
- Thread starter ADiTAR
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Well, damn.
IDF doesn't target civilians, but you can't wage war and fight terrorism when these terrorists hide weapons and themselves behind citizens as shields.
But I dunno how many times I have to say it. IDF at least told people to flee (and also does a knock on building before they blow it up). Hamas didn't warn the rave goers that they are coming, and that's the moral difference here.
People who claim both sides are the same really need to get their moral compass in check.
MisterFalcon
Member
Declaring Total War leads to bad things for your people too, shocking!
Sportpalast speech - Wikipedia
Nazi rally on 18 February 1943 at the Berlin Sportpalast; the sign says "Totaler Krieg – Kürzester Krieg" ("Total War – Shortest War").
Total war with Israel is also the platform Hamas was elected on in back when there were still elections so after all those years they can finally deliver on their promises.
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
He said there is a "moral difference"IDF moral !
Morality is not an all-or-nothing measure to be discarded entirely the moment perfection is lost
Madserb2023
Member
Watching people online trying to make a liberal case for supporting Hamas is quite something. Your typical Hamas "freedom fighter" would make even the most right wing Republican look like Bernie Sanders. How can you say Donald Trump is evil and then have a smiley face next to some kids getting dragged away by terrorists. Am I missing something.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
My solution, give these radical Hamas pricks and their supporters a swat of land, preferably an island so no tunneling. Give them power / water / food (paid by taxing them) and sponsered by the countries of the world. Cordon it off completely. 24/7 watch with a wall that Trump would dream about. Pretty much a open air prison run by themselves.
Nobody gets out and every country in the world can send their hamas supporters and religious fanatics to that place.
I'm guessing after 1 year they've killed eachother.
Nobody gets out and every country in the world can send their hamas supporters and religious fanatics to that place.
I'm guessing after 1 year they've killed eachother.
pennythoughts
Member
same people that will say things like "accusations are evidence" while asking where the video footage is of hamas raping the naked women they threw into the backs of trucks.
Thank you for the history lesson.
Madserb2023
Member
They are relatively speaking. Morality is not in a vacuum. If you give Hamas a nuke, Tel Aviv would be gone. If the tables were turned technologically there wouldn't a single Israeli left alive.IDF moral !
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Yeah the Hamas apologists and the whataboutists in this thread and elsewhere, should go fuck yourselves.
Israel has extended safe corridors and established safe zones for all non-combatants and civilians to seek refuge. I hope that all the innocent individuals can reach these shelters and areas safely. I'm assuming these areas will be taken advantage of by Hamas because using their own people as human shields is what they do best.
Anyone who remains outside of these designated safe areas will reap what Hamas has sown. The world should unequivocally condemn not only the horrific acts they've committed but also recognize the significant setback, if not irreparable harm, they've inflicted upon the Palestinian cause. Instead we have all these 'progessive' retards championing Hamas; the very same animals that would brutalise them if they were given the chance. If the events at the Festival of Peace didn't already showcase Hamas' intentions towards individuals like them, then it's disheartening to think about what it would take to get through to them.
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FunkMiller
Member
I don‘t think comparisons to WW2 should be made in the context of this conflict. The actions of the allies were predicated on years of attritional war, conducted and caused by the Germans. Context is everything. The bombing of Dresden was horrific, but tactically it was done to swamp German authorities, and pull existing resources away, to further destroy the German war machine. It was conducted as a tactic to end World War 2.
Nothing being done in this tit for tat conflict, that exists for no good reason, is being conducted for tactical or strategic reasons. It’s purely driven by ideology.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Phil DeFranco had a really good summary of the events so far along with the online and government commentary on the events. He was measured and was respectful... It's the opening 10 minutes of the show ....
FunkMiller
Member
Sorry, I just had to circle back round to this briefly, because… oh my fucking god. How can you even begin to have this kind of opinion, if you’ve done anything more than look out of your window?
Yes, the left is largely secular (and the complete separation of church and state is right and proper), but to actually think the FAR LEFT doesn’t engage in antisemitism? Absolutely incredible. Mind blowing that anyone can think this. Crazy town.
You can only think this is you exclusively spend your time in an echo chamber with walls ten feet thick.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Claims of being "the" indigenous people of the land are extremely disingenuous. As with the entire region, everything depends on when you start counting history. There are many parameters by which you can count a people as deserving to have a land. In the fully globalized world where all land is claimed, the consensus of all nations (especially after two world wars where many different displaced peoples are being given land) is not a parameter to disregard. So to disregard it so strongly that you make more war, well it shouldn't be surprising when those nations that were being gracious have a consensus that your fate would be the same as the other nations that staked their existence on war.
Eotheod
Member
Fucking disgusting. Literally aligning with Hitler perspectives despite being in a country that served to liberate the world of those crimes. Just as fucking bad as neo Nazis, except Hamas actually fucking utilise modern technology to broadcast their barbaric and terrorist threats.
The Sum of Zero
Member
I honestly don't have a dog in the race, so to speak, but I feel that any country has the right to defend their citizens from such barbaric terrorism, no matter the history or whatever.
Hamas brought this on themselves, with the fucking shit they've pulled.
Hamas brought this on themselves, with the fucking shit they've pulled.
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Nikodemos
Member
Apparently there was an early anonymous leak that Egypt's security service had issued a warning to their Israeli counterparts regarding something big and bad going to happen.
Now both sides are trying to walk back from that statement. If the whole situation wasn't so atrociously horrific, it would be genuinely comical.
Now both sides are trying to walk back from that statement. If the whole situation wasn't so atrociously horrific, it would be genuinely comical.
It just shows how hypocrites they are. Believe all women stops when it's counterintuitive.
Right now we're focused on Hamas. After that I hope the Bibi-bubble of right winger in Israel will burst, they always thought he's Mr. Safety and Security.
Nikodemos
Member
You can't clean your house with a broken broom.
I don't think it even matters who was there first. There's a clear line of history of how we got to where we are and who can claim the land today.
They are going to Emergency Government, but Bibi is not running this war, the army leadership hopefully is. We enlisted 360K soldiers from the reserve, flying fighters back from all over the world. It's kinda like the battle of Minas Tirith.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Essentially any "Far" movement is no different from religious devotion. It is just called an "ideology" and not a "religion"
Slicker than your average
Banned
I know emotions are high but when there is faction, I will bring facts. You continually tell this fiction like it's fact.
Do I need to really start posting links of the IDF targeting civilians? I don't give a fuck if the IDF knocks on doors or tells people before they blow up their home. Some good deeds (if you call them good) don't excuse all the bad shit too.
Tell me did they send text messages to the civilians warning them to duck, just before snipers shoot them? Or I'll use the warship example again. Did they inform the kids parents they were about to shell their kids on the beach?
Are we ignoring the fact you jsut called for 2.3 million people to be ethnically cleansed now too?
Please don't take your history lesson from this poster, do your own research, don't just take his 'facts' at face value.
1)The poster is Israeli which means whatever he posts will have an inherent bias.
2) he clearly doesn't even mention the 6 day war where israel started for the sole purpose of land grabbing. (Retired idf military personnel even confirm this).
Haint
Member
What authority or threat does hamas have over the 10's of thousands of palestinian expats currently hosting celebratory parades in the streets of Canada, UK, Australia, US, etc...? Statistically speaking, how would this comparatively small assortment of immigrants somehow manage to be disproportionately hamas supporters while "the good guys" disproportionately remain in the strip? Nah bruh, it seems likely a majority of them very much support hamas in principle, possibly even a super majority.
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Nikodemos
Member
The same army leadership that didn't object to having most of the Tzahal deployed to bumfuck nowhere West Bank?
Madserb2023
Member
It probably isn't a good path to go down but even a child will tell you the Jews were there first. There is a mosque on the foundations on the previous Jewish temple, there isn't a synagogue on the foundations of a mosque. It is no different to Istanbul being previously Constantinople and the churches being later converted to mosques. I am not saying the Turks should be Kicked out but not a single historian would say the Muslims who came to Istanbul in the 16th century pre dated the Roman's or the Greeks.
Wildebeest
Member
All these people who are so incredibly opposed to Hamas and their actions but bust a blood vessel with evasive language if directly asked to condemn their actions once without condemning everyone else in the world in the same breath.
Yeah, show me the receipts. Show all of us. I don't know of Israeli sniper just shooting kids for no reason.
If IDF blows up your home, there's a reason for it, and they tell you to get tf out first.
I know the beach on the kids incident you talk about, that was a mistake and was investigated. It's not like it's a daily occurrence.
There's no moral equivalence.
There's no bias in facts. Can refute anything I said?
About the 6 days war:
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
You're right, Israel should've waited until it's attacked.
newtypepilot
Member
Yeah, will reckon with it later. It's unbearable to think. I cry every day.
pesaddict
Banned
And how many years has it been the other way round ? Cementing water pipes into gaza the use of white phosphorus, blockades !?!?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Yes this is the point I was making. "Who was there first" often has little to do with who has been there since, who is there now, and who should be allowed there. This is all before coming to the question of who should be ruling it, where "here first" is by no means some end-all be-all parameter.
Comparatively, even as Russia is making war on Ukraine, Russia themselves does not deny that the Ruthenian peoples were there first. Russia argues that it is Russians that built it into a civilization and so it belongs to Russia and the people were basically annexed to be Russian. This is indicative of how history can be interpreted in different ways so not everything is so clean cut. Similarly, Crimea was occupied by the Tatars before Stalin deported them, which was a horrible thing. However, long before that in history the Tatars took it over by force. It was a Christian Rus place for several centuries. Yet that doesn't mean the Tatars didn't deserve to return and have a say in rule. It was their people's land for 400 years and all those following generations were not the people who raided it.
These sort of complex histories are why it is very important to take global consensus seriously when land is being given to peoples after world war. It will not be perfect but something had to be done to settle the world and rebuild after being thrown into chaos and destruction. It was a time to embrace new circumstances and make the most of them, not cling to personal interpretations of the past and demand ownership rights that the world doesn't agree with. Anyone carrying on in the mindset of the world wars like that shows that they missed the most important lessons from them, whether it is a desperate Palestinian or a tyrant like Putin.
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Nikodemos
Member
Bibi and his Likudnik traitors should not be allowed to let the rally round the flag effect prevent the serving of their just desserts. And the sooner, the better. Him and his supporters are absolutely not the ones who should lead when cleaning up this shitshow.
This is the Likud's true face:
From a Financial Times article. The article itself is paywalled, but there are ways around it.
Yeah, I hope this would be a wake up call for all Likud supporters.
Madserb2023
Member
I agree but the issue is that people are using this in support of the Palestinians. There are conspiracies all from the Jews being originally from Poland to falsified archeological evidence to time travel.
Guess you absolutely have no idea about WW2 at all.
You cannot easily fight or win against an entrenched, hidden amongst populace; guerrilla war.
We've seen it countless times.
Sadly, the only option to shift those odds is to throw collateral out the window.
It is wrong of course.
I personally have not seen so much support for a terrorist attack in my life.
Scores of people in major cities out in public cheering for the death of civilians and want more.
Fuckin' sicko's.
We've seen it countless times.
Sadly, the only option to shift those odds is to throw collateral out the window.
It is wrong of course.
I personally have not seen so much support for a terrorist attack in my life.
Scores of people in major cities out in public cheering for the death of civilians and want more.
Fuckin' sicko's.
Nikodemos
Member
It should also be a wake-up call that ultraconservative parties (the ones representing West Bank settlers) in the Knesset have way too much power. Bibi sent the Tzahal to the West Bank in order to appease his coalition partners.
Ulysses 31
Member
Guess you never heard of the Dresden bombings.
supernova8
Banned
Along those lines, how did we (ie the UK and US primarily) come up with the absolutely genius plan of putting the bulk of the world's Jewish population (by way of making them an official country) in the one place in the world (Middle East) where a big chunk of countries seem to hate Jews?
A lot of the world's borders were up in the air after WW2, surely there was somewhere else (ie in Europe) that would've been more suitable for a Jewish state, no?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Such things were also prevalent everywhere in the times leading to the world wars and were a major factor causing them. Yet another reason to work with consensus of global government. If you want to hold conspiracies about that as well and take on the whole world... Well, you are making your own destiny there and have no one but yourself to blame for however it turns out.
The Zionists wanted it. They wanted to get back to their ancestral home. Again, a piece of land in Canada would have been much better.
Brigandier
Member
Low IQ comment, You are a cunt.
Slicker than your average
Banned
Bro I'm not trying to make any moral equivalence. Not am I'm comparing any terrorist barbarism committed by Hamas to the IDF. I'm simply calling out bullshit I'm seeing this thread.Yeah, show me the receipts. Show all of us. I don't know of Israeli sniper just shooting kids for no reason.
If IDF blows up your home, there's a reason for it, and they tell you to get tf out first.
I know the beach on the kids incident you talk about, that was a mistake and was investigated. It's not like it's a daily occurrence.
There's no moral equivalence.
There's no bias in facts. Can refute anything I said?
About the 6 days war:
"In May 1967, Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser announced that the Straits of Tiran would again be closed to Israeli vessels. He subsequently mobilized the Egyptian military into defensive lines along the border with Israel[33] and ordered the immediate withdrawal of all UNEF personnel."Six-Day War - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
You're right, Israel should've waited until it's attacked.
And in regard to you, you can't sit there and say the IDF doesn't ever target civilians, when it clearly does. This isn't an attempt to compare the IDF to Hamas.
You also don't get to say statements like that; while simultaneously calling for ethnic cleansing.
Regarding the ship.. you expect me to take the IDF investigated it and said it was a tragic accident. When many other independent sources have called it bullshit. It was a clear day in the afternoon. There's no excuse and isn't just a one time thing either.
I never said snipers were shooting children. I said snipers shooting civilians who cross invisible red lines. Or the sniper that bragged about shooting 42 knees in one day..so brave shooting those unarmed protesters. Again this isn't some tit for tat idf to Hamas comparison. Simply stop going around saying the IDF don't target civilians. When they do.
According to Israel military intelligence the Egyptians wouldn't have been ready for a war for a year. So yeah launching a premptive strike just to land grab is exactly what it is. A land grab. In a post ww2 world what kind of counties use military conquest to take land that doesn't belong to them..
If your argument is based on alternative timelines and what ifs then, it's not based in reality.
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Madserb2023
Member
The problem is that people who shouldn't be propagating false history are. It's not just your Alex Jones types. It's why we have a black Cleopatra even though she was Greek and 50% of London being Chinese in the middle ages. It has becomes commonplace to just make up crap and it's not confined to lunatics and you need to accept the truth before you can even start to develop some kind of orocess going forward. If you starting position is that the Jews are Lizards or Hitler was actually a Zionist and did what he did to create Israel, which is a actually a popular theory that even a previous mayor of London believes then you have a problem.
winjer
Gold Member
That is the mind of a psychopath. Civilians should never be the main target. That is a war crime, plain and simple.
Let just remind you that other countries have won wars, in disadvantageous positions, by using guerilla tactics. Attacking military targets, not civilians.
Vietnam won against the USA and Afghanistan won against Russia. By picking their battles and attacking the military.
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