HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This

sendit said:
Next episode the clubbing will happen "slowly".I also didn't enjoy them leaving out the classic "bigot sandwich" line
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That sandwich line scene couldn't have happened yet. We aren't there yet. Also show spoiler leaks aren't allowed if you know something.

Edit: I don't know how I messed up the spoiler tags. Editing doesn't help.
 
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VulcanRaven said:
You are supposed to hate her for most of the game just like Ellie does
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It's funny how people's memories work and how they convince themselves of things.
We learn about Abby's motivations in the prologue. You literally play as her within the first 30 minutes.

If you hated her for most of the game, it's because you couldn't get past your own grief and accept hers. Ultimately, it's what makes the writing brilliant and I don't think that changes because of anything they've done here.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
It's funny how people's memories work and how they convince themselves of things.
We learn about Abby's motivations in the prologue. You literally play as her within the first 30 minutes.

If you hated her for most of the game, it's because you couldn't get past your own grief and accept hers. Ultimately, it's what makes the writing brilliant and I don't think that changes because of anything they've done here.
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I like Part 2 more than the first game.
 
DragoonKain said:
The irony of episode 1 of TLOU2 airing on the same day as The Master. IYKYK.
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My girlfriend doesn't know thats how it happens with Joel (she really likes the show). We had just finished up watchin the Masters as well. I kept making comments about the Masters much to my personal amusement.
 
I actually found Abby a much more compelling character in Part 2 than Ellie. Ellie is in the "revenge" with not much depth beyond that. Abby has her revenge, and now dealing with how it hasn't helped her understand her grief or alleviate it in anyway. The depth of going through that, to me, is much more compelling.
 
- Bella in season 1 just about won me over but first Ep of season 2 I found her to be pretty poor. Having her fight/train with a big man just felt dumb and forced. Season 1 she got a pass but as for part 2? She just doesn't fit the role. Still hope shes improves as it goes on though.
- Opening scene felt cheap and badly acted, very wooden. Too early obviously to judge Team Abby cast but scene was poor.
- The scene killing the clicker with knife felt way too light hearted in the build up and why would you risk jumping on the back of one if you had a gun. Ok if need to use knife for silence not waste ammo etc you would do a thrust into the skull not pretend ur Drax from guardians stabbing a alien.

+ Dina was great, good casting and performance.
+ I don't mind Pedros version of Joel, its different but I enjoyed all his scenes.

EP1 overall was a 6/10.
 
Really enjoyed the first episode. never played the games so I have no qualms with the casting, but what is up with Ellie's dialogue? Everything she says and insufferable and so arrogant. Do they want us to dislike her? Is she like this in the games?
 
12Goblins said:
Really enjoyed the first episode. never played the games so I have no qualms with the casting, but what is up with Ellie's dialogue? Everything she says and insufferable and so arrogant. Do they want us to dislike her? Is she like this in the games?
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I think they want her to appear a little arrogant. She knows that she can take risks because she is immune.
 
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12Goblins said:
Really enjoyed the first episode. never played the games so I have no qualms with the casting, but what is up with Ellie's dialogue? Everything she says and insufferable and so arrogant. Do they want us to dislike her? Is she like this in the games?
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Nah she is not like this in the game at all. Ellie in game is more mature, quite, hate being in the spotlight and she is not insufferable brat like this show
 
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JMZ555 said:
- Bella in season 1 just about won me over but first Ep of season 2 I found her to be pretty poor. Having her fight/train with a big man just felt dumb and forced. Season 1 she got a pass but as for part 2? She just doesn't fit the role. Still hope shes improves as it goes on though.
- Opening scene felt cheap and badly acted, very wooden. Too early obviously to judge Team Abby cast but scene was poor.
- The scene killing the clicker with knife felt way too light hearted in the build up and why would you risk jumping on the back of one if you had a gun. Ok if need to use knife for silence not waste ammo etc you would do a thrust into the skull not pretend ur Drax from guardians stabbing a alien.

+ Dina was great, good casting and performance.
+ I don't mind Pedros version of Joel, its different but I enjoyed all his scenes.

EP1 overall was a 6/10.
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I'm around a 7-7.5 myself.

I think you're ignoring Ellie's arc which explains why they're taking this direction. I had no problems with the MMA scene. I thought it was well done. I do have doubts about whether she can deliver on the physicality needed for season 2, but had no problems with that scene.

Open scene definitely felt like a high school drama. Not sure how that was the final cut. Abby seems largely fine, but Team Abby lots of questions. I like the actor from the beef, so the rest of them should be fine too. Hope so anyways.

The scene with the clicker was fine. Makes sense to save ammo and they're obviously pushing for sport here. They're reckless and cavalier. One of them is immune though and it is an obvious homage to the game.

I've seen Dina get a lot of praise, I'm mixed on her. Not great, but not terrible either. I felt like they cut some lines and had some rough delivery in the new years party scene that they could have kept in or delivered better and they could have lost some other stuff.

Pedro was excellent in this episode. The show is generally far more fleshed out than the game.
 
Solid start, but I hugely prefer the way the game handled it so far, unlike season one which was in most ways an improvement. Feels like they let Abby out of the bag way too soon. Otherwise pretty good. Echo the sentiment of Dina being an absolute yum.

Ulysses 31 said:
Did the bigot sandwich make the cut?
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Sadly not

VulcanRaven said:
That sandwich line scene couldn't have happened yet. We aren't there yet.
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We're actually past it
 
viveks86 said:
'The Last of Us' Season 2 Premiere Hits 5.3 Million Viewers, Up 13% From Series Launch
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I know that won't sit well with people who wanted this to fail.

It'll be interesting to see how the games track on the charts, especially with the complete edition kind of mucking things up a bit. If you plan on buying the first game, it's a no brainer to buy the complete edition at this point. Part 1 is 70 dollars, Part 2 is 50 dollars, and complete is 100 dollars. 30 more dollars and you get both games? Yeah... no brainer. But it might cause Part 2 to not scale up the charts as much as it would otherwise.

I don't think the complete edition is available on steam, so it'll be interesting to see an independent impact.

Edit: Already up from 18th best selling game to 13th best selling game on Steam. Part 1 entered the top 100 and is at 74.
 
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I loved how in episode 1 the
i loved how the employee of the month board was in this episode with the doggo on it! It was in the game too as a puzzle for the vault
i loved it!
 
Neff said:
Sadly not



We're actually past it
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No we're not. That happens the next day. We're still on new years night. You're thinking because Ellie goes on patrol that this is her going on patrol in the game, it isn't. What we saw from this patrol from the episode happens afterwards, which is why you're confused.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
That happens the next day.
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If it happens. They've reordered the scenes so 'the morning after' will no longer coincide with Ellie and Dina's initial patrol, we're past that moment. That said I won't be surprised if we have a scene with Maria trying to smooth things over with Ellie and Seth. Whether sandwiches of the bigoted kind are involved remains to be seen.
 
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Neff said:
If it happens. They've reordered the scenes so 'the morning after' will no longer coincide with Ellie and Dina's initial patrol, we're past that moment. That said I won't be surprised if we have a scene with Maria trying to smooth things over with Ellie and Seth. Whether sandwiches of the bigoted kind are involved remains to be seen.
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That's literally what I just said.

They reordered it. They haven't gone on their patrol after the party yet. While the scene in the grocery store happens in that patrol, they've cut it and put it into an earlier patrol, but that has nothing to do with the run in the with Seth. They clearly kept the line in the episode where Jesse says you have patrol in the morning. That doesn't mean that scene will happen, but to say we are past that scene is not accurate at all.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
It's funny how people's memories work and how they convince themselves of things.
We learn about Abby's motivations in the prologue. You literally play as her within the first 30 minutes.

If you hated her for most of the game, it's because you couldn't get past your own grief and accept hers. Ultimately, it's what makes the writing brilliant and I don't think that changes because of anything they've done here.
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Ita funny how you are corrrecting people while being wrong

No, we dont learn about Abby's motivations during the prologue. We know they are searching for someone, but they dont mention Joel, and we dont know they are ex-Fireflies.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I know that won't sit well with people who wanted this to fail.

It'll be interesting to see how the games track on the charts, especially with the complete edition kind of mucking things up a bit. If you plan on buying the first game, it's a no brainer to buy the complete edition at this point. Part 1 is 70 dollars, Part 2 is 50 dollars, and complete is 100 dollars. 30 more dollars and you get both games? Yeah... no brainer. But it might cause Part 2 to not scale up the charts as much as it would otherwise.

I don't think the complete edition is available on steam, so it'll be interesting to see an independent impact.

Edit: Already up from 18th best selling game to 13th best selling game on Steam. Part 1 entered the top 100 and is at 74.
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Agreed. I'm also keen to know what the actual sales numbers for the complete edition would be, if it was worth bundling at all. Does stuff like that even involve ND or is there a team within Sony that would create a SKU? I would think the former as they probably have some UI built to switch between games?
 
Hugare said:
Ita funny how you are corrrecting people while being wrong

No, we dont learn about Abby's motivations during the prologue. We know they are searching for someone, but they dont mention Joel, and we dont know they are ex-Fireflies.
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Don't be dense. We know we're searching for a "him" and unless you haven't played TLOUP1 you know it is Joel and you would know why.
 
viveks86 said:
Agreed. I'm also keen to know what the actual sales numbers for the complete edition would be, if it was worth bundling at all. Does stuff like that even involve ND or is there a team within Sony that would create a SKU? I would think the former as they probably have some UI built to switch between games?
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I think the plan for a "complete" edition was made as soon as they called it TLOU P2.

I wonder if they do a 3rd game whether they'll change the title kind of like they did with First Blood Part 1 and 2.

I believe I called a bundle when they announced the remake of P1. Seemed logical, but I hope we still get a Part 3.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I think the plan for a "complete" edition was made as soon as they called it TLOU P2.

I wonder if they do a 3rd game whether they'll change the title kind of like they did with First Blood Part 1 and 2.

I believe I called a bundle when they announced the remake of P1. Seemed logical, but I hope we still get a Part 3.
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With all the success the shows having there's literally no way they don't do a 3.. on ps6
 
Represent. said:
With all the success the shows having there's literally no way they don't do a 3.. on ps6
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Comes down to time, resources, risk assessment.

I really think the 2nd game underperformed at the time, which is why they went quiet with the sales reports.

It's possible that they're aiming for a 2027-2029 release and that it's the best kept secret in gaming.

If TLOU Season 3 comes out in 2 years, that would put us at 2027, with a season 4 coming out in 2029, that would give more than enough time for a game to release first.

It's interesting how many franchises Naughty Dog has dropped that other studios have never picked up.
 
Yoboman said:
Oh go on
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Most of the interwebs hates Abby because we see things from Joel and Ellie's point of view. It's a masterclass of how perspective shapes opinion and thought. If we had played TLOU P2 beginning with Abby's story, we probably would feel she is fully justified. What's also interesting is that both gamers and viewers were VERY against Joel at the end of Part 1, yet kind of gloss over the human cost, because we still fundamentally side with the player we just played through or the actor we just watched for a season. It's hypocrisy and that hypocrisy and hate drives us for most of the game as we hunt down Abby and her friends.

The things they're doing to shape the first season so far also really add a lot of quality to the story telling. Joel kills the therapists husband but he actually kills him twice over. He shoots him presumably because he got infected, but the other way to look at this is if there had been a cure, he wouldn't have been infected in the first place. He can't tell her what he did, not only because the lies stack up, like confessing that Ellie is immune and what happened with the fireflies, but everything that happens afterward including her husband's death are on Joel's hands. It's too big a confession for him to make, especially to her. She already hates him. It was a great scene and powerful especially with the full context.

But that's just another example of how the season is going to explore how hate works. The therapists thinks she should be able to logic her way out of hating Joel because Joel again probably killed him after he got infected and it had to be done, but could she forgive him for stealing the cure that could have saved her husband's life? Her husband of 41 years? There's no repairing that. That scene alone encompasses the story of TLOUP2. It's about how difficult it is to forgive people, even if we think we should, even if we know what their story is, because we're all the main character is on our own stories.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Most of the interwebs hates Abby because we see things from Joel and Ellie's point of view. It's a masterclass of how perspective shapes opinion and thought. If we had played TLOU P2 beginning with Abby's story, we probably would feel she is fully justified. What's also interesting is that both gamers and viewers were VERY against Joel at the end of Part 1, yet kind of gloss over the human cost, because we still fundamentally side with the player we just played through or the actor we just watched for a season. It's hypocrisy and that hypocrisy and hate drives us for most of the game as we hunt down Abby and her friends.

The things they're doing to shape the first season so far also really add a lot of quality to the story telling. Joel kills the therapists husband but he actually kills him twice over. He shoots him presumably because he got infected, but the other way to look at this is if there had been a cure, he wouldn't have been infected in the first place. He can't tell her what he did, not only because the lies stack up, like confessing that Ellie is immune and what happened with the fireflies, but everything that happens afterward including her husband's death are on Joel's hands. It's too big a confession for him to make, especially to her. She already hates him. It was a great scene and powerful especially with the full context.

But that's just another example of how the season is going to explore how hate works. The therapists thinks she should be able to logic her way out of hating Joel because Joel again probably killed him after he got infected and it had to be done, but could she forgive him for stealing the cure that could have saved her husband's life? Her husband of 41 years? There's no repairing that. That scene alone encompasses the story of TLOUP2. It's about how difficult it is to forgive people, even if we think we should, even if we know what their story is, because we're all the main character is on our own stories.
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That has nothing to do with what I said. You claimed I don't understand the story because you are supposed to hate Abby at first

Giving her back story up front immediately empathises her to the audience

The game gives you no detail to who she is except that she is looking for a man in Jackson. All up until they kill Joel and even then you don't truly know until the character swap

This is a vital parallel to Abby's own journey. She doesn't know why her father was killed and it drives her revenge. Ellie and the player feel the same, having no context is important to creating this emotion in the narrative

Instead of sticking to the source material they have pussied out and given us a weaker version of the plot, clearly put of fear of getting the same backlash the game had

So tell me how I'm wrong?[/quote]
 
Yoboman said:
That has nothing to do with what I said. You claimed I don't understand the story because you are supposed to hate Abby at first

Giving her back story up front immediately empathises her to the audience

The game gives you no detail to who she is except that she is looking for a man in Jackson. All up until they kill Joel and even then you don't truly know until the character swap

This is a vital parallel to Abby's own journey. She doesn't know why her father was killed and it drives her revenge. Ellie and the player feel the same, having no context is important to creating this emotion in the narrative

Instead of sticking to the source material they have pussied out and given us a weaker version of the plot, clearly put of fear of getting the same backlash the game had

So tell me how I'm wrong?
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[/QUOTE]


Again, you know who Abby is looking for in the beginning of the game. If you didn't, you need a lot of things spelled out for you. That she is looking for Joel, the reasoning is obvious.

I knew from the first trailer with Joel in it, that Joel was dying in this game. It was obvious. "How far are you going to take this?"

If you're a TV viewer you still don't know about Abby's dad, you only know that she is a firefly, which should have been obvious in the game too. In both the game and the show it's pretty clear that they're looking to kill who they're looking for and it's obvious that it is joel in both. Anyone with sense realized they were fireflies from the get go and their motivations were obvious.

Who else would they be?
 
Yoboman said:
That has nothing to do with what I said. You claimed I don't understand the story because you are supposed to hate Abby at first

Giving her back story up front immediately empathises her to the audience

The game gives you no detail to who she is except that she is looking for a man in Jackson. All up until they kill Joel and even then you don't truly know until the character swap

This is a vital parallel to Abby's own journey. She doesn't know why her father was killed and it drives her revenge. Ellie and the player feel the same, having no context is important to creating this emotion in the narrative

Instead of sticking to the source material they have pussied out and given us a weaker version of the plot, clearly put of fear of getting the same backlash the game had

So tell me how I'm wrong?
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Just different goals. One is meant to evoke feelings of hate, confusion and empathy, as you don't know wtf just happened. The other is meant to evoke dread and sympathy, where you have a sense of where it's all going to go and understand why. Both can be effective if done right. But it's more effective to maximize empathy in a game as you actively control the character. It's more effective to maximize sympathy when you are passively observing a TV show over months or years. Empathy is too strong a feeling and you would fail to keep the audience holding on to negative empathy for that long. Chances are the show will just lose its viewers as nothing is answered/resolved for several weeks (or years).

The story is still the same, so hiding details from the viewer is nothing but a storytelling gimmick anyway. Sticking to the game's format was risky enough as it is and already split the fan base in half (there were other reasons but the format played a big part). It may have failed miserably in a longer format. You can call it being a pussy. I call it being wise and adapting the source material according to the format and audience.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Again, you know who Abby is looking for in the beginning of the game. If you didn't, you need a lot of things spelled out for you. That she is looking for Joel, the reasoning is obvious.

I knew from the first trailer with Joel in it, that Joel was dying in this game. It was obvious. "How far are you going to take this?"

If you're a TV viewer you still don't know about Abby's dad, you only know that she is a firefly, which should have been obvious in the game too. In both the game and the show it's pretty clear that they're looking to kill who they're looking for and it's obvious that it is joel in both. Anyone with sense realized they were fireflies from the get go and their motivations were obvious.

Who else would they be?
..
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Being able to put context clues together and theorise before it's revealed is very different to it being outright stated. In fact nowhere in the intro with Abby does it even state they are out to kill him until his leg was blown off, just "get him out of Jackson". They didn't even use his name - it could have been anything from Tommy to some random prisoner in the town at that point

And for knowing who it is, again nothing is stated. You might guess it's the fireflies but Joel himself didn't go to that, he thought it could be one of dozens of people he has wronged. Too many he didn't even try to narrow it down

They are named as an entirely different group, WLF, as well. Naughty Dog put a ton of barriers to guessing who they are or what their intentions are in the narrative

You guessing right - probably with the context of having already been spoiled online, doesn't change the way the narrative was actually structured and delivered
..
 
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Mibu no ookami said:
Don't be dense. We know we're searching for a "him" and unless you haven't played TLOUP1 you know it is Joel and you would know why.
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Not as dense as starting the first episode with exposition saying "I want to kill JOEL" and showing who they are.

But hey, if you arent offended when the showrunners are thinking you are as smart as a monkey, good for you.
 
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Hugare said:
Not as dense as starting the first episode with exposition saying "I want to kill JOEL" and showing who they are.

But hey, if you arent offended when the showrunners are thinking you are as smart as a monkey, good for you.
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Eh like I said I started tlou2 last week on pc and it was pretty much immediately obvious who they are and what her motivation is
 
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12Goblins said:
Really enjoyed the first episode. never played the games so I have no qualms with the casting, but what is up with Ellie's dialogue? Everything she says and insufferable and so arrogant. Do they want us to dislike her? Is she like this in the games?
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Dude just play the games. You will get more of the lore and story than this cut and swap job in TV shows. Now I understand when book fans complain about movie adaptations. Theres just so much stuff missing. Lets see how Seaso 2 pans out but S1 didnt show AT ALL the gravity and amount of clicker infestation in our world.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I know that won't sit well with people who wanted this to fail.

It'll be interesting to see how the games track on the charts, especially with the complete edition kind of mucking things up a bit. If you plan on buying the first game, it's a no brainer to buy the complete edition at this point. Part 1 is 70 dollars, Part 2 is 50 dollars, and complete is 100 dollars. 30 more dollars and you get both games? Yeah... no brainer. But it might cause Part 2 to not scale up the charts as much as it would otherwise.

I don't think the complete edition is available on steam, so it'll be interesting to see an independent impact.

Edit: Already up from 18th best selling game to 13th best selling game on Steam. Part 1 entered the top 100 and is at 74.
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Dude relax, these games were selling like hot cakes before the TV show was even announced. And not sure where you got the idea that "people" want this to fail. The TV show will prolongue the sales of the game just as Witch 3 from 10 years ago got a boost in sales. The only thing fans are unhappy about is that their output dropped so bad and all we getting is remasters of PS4 games over and over, its obvious its a cash grab. Do you think any fan would be excited about these news? If fans knew they would drop their output and not release anything in the next 7 years, I think most people would rather hard pass a TV show instead of just getting remaster after remaster which THE ONLY reason exists is not because of fans but to coincide with the TV show and raise awarness.
 
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