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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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I guess all they would have do is change the text on buzzard from "summon a beast" to "play a beast", but would hunter still be viable without reliable card draw? Though you would need to somehow still let hunters draw off Animal Companion, which is a beast token.
Also because of how unleash works, the hunter versus mirror is beyond stupid. Basically, it's whoever gets to savannah highmane first, and then whoever unleashes first typically loses. (unless you can unleash their unleash) I don't know if there is any card which is effective against every other class but itself, but that is what Unleash the Hounds is in the mirror.
Seems okay. The numbers are a bit outdated but I'm sure Blizzard keeps internal numbers and they're probably happy with it.
The real issue here, as is the issue with almost every complaint about Hearthstone (outside of bugs), is psychological. You naturally perceive going second as an advantage because you get to make a T2 play on T1. Since most decks begin on T2, it seems like you're one step ahead. This is especially true for Rogues, because Turn 5 Auctioneer + Coin + Conceal feels amazing. Because the Rogue is feeling so great, his opponent doesn't feel so great, and decides it's the Coin that's the problem, when it's really just cognitive bias.
See also: Riot's idea of Anti-fun™.
Hunters might have to shift to Miracle Rogue style Gadgetzan shenanigans for the card draw. Not impossible considering cards like Hunter's Mark, Tracking, Flare, etc, but not ideal either. They should compensate for a nerf to UTH by buffing other aspects like, say, giving Buzzard 2 health.
It would change the nature of Hunters for sure, and would probably kick them out of the top again.
I said it before and I'll say it again, Blizzard needs to rethink the entire Beast synergy paradigm. UTH is just a bandage for this deeper issue.
Another possibility, turn UTH into a creature like:
Pack Leader:
2 mana
Charge
1/1
Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 Hound with Charge for each enemy minion.
So it can trigger Buzzard a maximum of one time, but still gives Hunters his little doggies.
UTH is definitely not countered by taunts. They can be sweeped with hunters mark and in the end the hunter doesn't really care even if he has to bash six hounds to a taunter. The most important thing was the card draw and maybe growing your hyena.
UTH is reliant on a few other cards if you want maximal loltastic effect from it, but it can be effective without buzzard too. With buzzard you draw the missing hunters marks or timber wolves very often thanks to the 30 card decks and the best card in HS; tracking
Your first statement is: "UTH is not countered by Taunts as long as the Hunter gets some value out of it, or sets up the Taunts with Hunter's Mark, or kills the Taunter before UTH".
Your second statement is: "UTH can be effective without loltastic synergies."
Which is it??? Does UTH need backup or not? If so, then, shit, yeah, nothing counters anything because you can always work around it with additional cards. Even Counterspell doesn't counter spells because you can draw it out with a dummy spell. WOW, I never realized that. If not, then why are all your examples about UTH not being countered by Taunt filled with setup/synergy cards?
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
Anybody have any thoughts on who the alt heroes should be? They already mentioned Varian as an alt Warrior. I think they should try to do male/female alts where they could fit. Or at least a different race.
Here's what I was thinking:
Warrior = Varian
Priest(ess) = Tyrande
Druid = Hamuul Runetotem
Shaman = Aggra or Magatha Grimtotem
Rogue = Garona or Mathias Shaw
Hunter = Alleria Windrunner, Hemet Nesingwary (need a dwarf) or Vol'jin (also could use a troll)
Paladin = Arthas or Lady Liadrin?
Mage = Khadgar/Medivh/Kael'thas
Warlock =Meryl Felstorm? Can't really think of many notable Warlocks besides Gul'dan
It's hard to guess which characters would be considered as heroes and which would end up as legendary cards. I'm not super familiar with the lore, but those are the most notable and representative characters I could think of for each of the classes.
Here's what I was thinking:
Warrior = Varian
Priest(ess) = Tyrande
Druid = Hamuul Runetotem
Shaman = Aggra or Magatha Grimtotem
Rogue = Garona or Mathias Shaw
Hunter = Alleria Windrunner, Hemet Nesingwary (need a dwarf) or Vol'jin (also could use a troll)
Paladin = Arthas or Lady Liadrin?
Mage = Khadgar/Medivh/Kael'thas
Warlock =Meryl Felstorm? Can't really think of many notable Warlocks besides Gul'dan
It's hard to guess which characters would be considered as heroes and which would end up as legendary cards. I'm not super familiar with the lore, but those are the most notable and representative characters I could think of for each of the classes.
Gib Maiev plz.
Any class I don't care, I'll play that class forever.
One of the conflicts of Alt Heroes is that, once they become a Hero, it's a bit weird if they're also a card. A Tyrande hero portrait means no Tyrande legendary card. While this is not written anywhere explicitly, it seems like the approach Blizzard is taking toward the "problem", based on the initial hero choices (major names, but not THAT major).
Any class I don't care, I'll play that class forever.
One of the conflicts of Alt Heroes is that, once they become a Hero, it's a bit weird if they're also a card. A Tyrande hero portrait means no Tyrande legendary card. While this is not written anywhere explicitly, it seems like the approach Blizzard is taking toward the "problem", based on the initial hero choices (major names, but not THAT major).
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
I'm thinking they would do Tyrande if they did Malfurion as the druid. They're about equal in terms of status. I agree with it seeming unlikely they'd do a legendary card and hero for the same character. I would think Garona, Nessingwary, and Medivh seem like they're too legendary to be a hero and would more likely end up as a legendary card. But then I would have said the same thing about Uther and Gul'dan. They all seem very representative of the class though.
UTH does very little alone. It does need synergies from other cards. But we have to remember that a big amount of cards in the hunter pool are balanced around UTH and the most popular hunter deck in the meta has so many cards that synergize with UTH, that playing it alone is not a likely scenario.
I think we can safely say that there are always at least one or two synergies available with UTH, buzzard being the most powerful and Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf, Hyena, Hunters Mark, Leokk etc following it up in some order.
And so UTH is "loltastic" with buzzard and maybe another synergy. It's still viable without buzzard when another different synergy is available and that is at least 90% of the time when playing for example: Mid-range Hunter.
Well no one knows. I don't see it costing any more than 1500 since thats like $20 worth of booster packs.
Well then they might as well remove the gold admission. No-one in my friend list has more than 500 gold, ever.
Minsc
Gold Member
I think the strongest argument anyone can make about gold pricing is the game gives out a minimum of 980 gold per week, and the content is spaced a week apart, so if they want to encourage people to pay for it, they have to make it cost more gold than they give away for free in a week.
There's no way they make a wing cost like 2-300 gold, when you can earn that in 2-3 days for free, I'd argue. But who knows. The pricing could even be tiered, 300 gold for wing 1, 600 for wing 2, 1200 for wing 3, and 2500 for the final paid wing.
I currently have ~1600 gold, and generally stay around 2,000; but I was thinking of starting to climb up to ~20,000 gold for the next expansion, so I'm ready to buy ~200 packs or whatever the day it releases.
Haunted
Member
That would be insane. Regular players won't have that much money.
Only a handful of streamers generally have that much. None of the people I know that play the game casually ever have more than 200 gold.
Maybe we'll get some gold out of each wing when it's beaten for the first time.
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
I have over 1700 gold right now, been saving for the expansion lol.
Haunted
Member
If blizzard were real devious, they'd make it so the final wing can't be bought with in-game gold, just real money.
That said, I'm sure Blizzard have collected all kinds of stats about the average gold amount people have and will price accordingly. This is the next big thing for hearthstone, they don't want casuals to have to save up for weeks to play it, they want as many people as possible in there.
That said, I'm sure Blizzard have collected all kinds of stats about the average gold amount people have and will price accordingly. This is the next big thing for hearthstone, they don't want casuals to have to save up for weeks to play it, they want as many people as possible in there.
Minsc
Gold Member
I think there's a lot more people with high gold totals than others expect. I see people posting time to time having gold in the 1000s, and I imagine any of the legendary players or people who climb to higher ranks who have all the cards they want probably have little use for gold now, and have started accumulating 1000s as well, if not 10s of thousands.
The main purpose of gold at some point in the near future will be to own a near-full set of the expansion's cards when it hits for the first ranked season of the expansion (not this PVE adventure, the first real expansion), without paying any real money.
The main purpose of gold at some point in the near future will be to own a near-full set of the expansion's cards when it hits for the first ranked season of the expansion (not this PVE adventure, the first real expansion), without paying any real money.
I've got almost 2000 gold and I don't even play that much.
And while they're interested in having as many people as possible play the expansion, I'm pretty sure they're more interested in earning money. So if someone thinks they're going to price the total at 1000 gold or less then think again. It's going to be considerably more.
And while they're interested in having as many people as possible play the expansion, I'm pretty sure they're more interested in earning money. So if someone thinks they're going to price the total at 1000 gold or less then think again. It's going to be considerably more.
From what I've read the only way to get the Naxx cards is to go through Naxx. You won't get them in packs. They will be available in Arena, but not from buying packs.
IGN Interview:
I think they want people to buy Naxx, that's why they are doing it this way. Otherwise, people would just buy packs to get the cards.
My guess it will be 300g/$3.99 per wing. With 5 wings that's 1500g/$19.95.
IGN Interview:
I think they want people to buy Naxx, that's why they are doing it this way. Otherwise, people would just buy packs to get the cards.
My guess it will be 300g/$3.99 per wing. With 5 wings that's 1500g/$19.95.
Minsc
Gold Member
Remember, the branches won't be out all at once. The first week is free, and you earn 50g/day for just winning 3 battles (40g quest + 10g for 3 wins). If they priced it at 300g, then just from the battles you win that week, you make the wing that comes out next week free. No one would even need to save ahead if they wanted to avoid paying money, they could just use the money they get for free after it releases.
Literally no one would pay for it, at all. I'm not sure that is their intention. And the following week, well everyone would have 350g again, for a free unlock of the next wing. The whole PVE would make minimal money that way, not really how F2P works, so I don't think it will be that cheap.
That doesn't make sense.
Current card packs are random. The Naxx cards are not, you'll (quickly) be able to find out what each one gives.
That + the ease of making almost 1k a week would suggest higher than 300 gold per wing.
The dollar price is probably in the right ball-park (though I'd guess $25-$30), but the gold price will be much higher. Remember, as others have said, you can easily grind out 1000 gold every week. Also, understand that the real price doesn't have to correspond to the normal 100 gold - $1.50 exchange since you can't buy gold for real money.
PontyfaxJr
Member
For 24 years I've been pronouncing it as HERth but then I watched a video of some one talking about this game and they were saying HARthstone and I though that was weird but my girlfriend agreed with the video so I looked it up and lo and behold, I've been wrong my whole life and it feels awful.
Easily? I've been saving my gold since the announcement at PAX and only have 800, and haven't missed any daily quests. No clue how you'd get 1000 in a single week.
I forgot the first wing was free. The gold price may be higher than 300 per wing, but if they do that and the price is $3.99, there will be a ton of bitching. Considering that an Arena is $1.99 or 150 gold. They have pretty much set the rate of dollars to gold with Arena pricing.
I'm going out on a limb here and predict that Blizz' intention with this first Adventure is not about short-term revenue first and foremost but rather about grabbing the new Ipad audience and increasing the attachement to the game. Therefore I believe it will be reasonably priced at 500ish gold per wing and the equivalent 3$ or so price tag.
Eh, easily was the wrong word, but it's certainly doable.
I guess you guys think the expansion is (for all practically reasons) going to be free, but I just don't. Blizzard doesn't run a charity. And since the first wing is free, that's how they're going to sucker you in to buy the next ones. And putting the price at 300 or 500 gold means that nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to buy anything.
MonorailCat
Member
There are enough people buying booster packs and Arena Entries for Real Money.
There will be enough people buying Naxxramus Wings.
That said, I expect the price to be around 500-750 per Wing.
Tatersalad
Member
It won't be TOO expensive though, since you can only get the cards from the expansion. If they price it too high they'll likely lose some casual players that will just give up since you'll likely need some of the cards. They want people to pay for it, but not feel forced like they have to.
I also imagine that the expansion will be a loss leader (at least the PvE component of it will be). More than anything, they want people to keep playing because that creates more players, which means more revenue.
I have 2000 gold, and I imagine it'll be enough for all of the wings, or at least close to all of the wings. Maybe 3000 to be safe, can't imagine it being more than that though.
I have 2000 gold, and I imagine it'll be enough for all of the wings, or at least close to all of the wings. Maybe 3000 to be safe, can't imagine it being more than that though.
KojiKnight
Member
I truly believe 500g is the sweet spot. It's not a guarantee if all you do is your daily quests, but it also isn't holding a gun to your head and telling you you have to play 4-6 hours a day for the whole week if you didn't save up gold before hand.
Enough incentive to pay if you are bad at saving (IE Amurrricans), but not enough to piss off people that don't want to pay... too much. There will always be complainers when a company tries to make money on their "free" product.
(edit) As for everyone having problems with the game... It's Tuesday, it's maintenance day
Enough incentive to pay if you are bad at saving (IE Amurrricans), but not enough to piss off people that don't want to pay... too much. There will always be complainers when a company tries to make money on their "free" product.
(edit) As for everyone having problems with the game... It's Tuesday, it's maintenance day
Minsc
Gold Member
Also remember, for 300-1000 gold or whatever you think it may be, you're getting ~6 cards (in addition to a playable set of PVE levels), and 1 is a usable legendary, not a joke legendary like they charged $2 (beta) or $40 for (Blizzcon). So that's got to be worth quite a bit as well, as acquiring a legendary by normal means could cost $20+ worth of expert packs.
Edit: Actually you're getting 11 cards per wing I guess, maybe even 22 cards per wing if you count doubles for non-legendaries and golden versions.
Edit: Actually you're getting 11 cards per wing I guess, maybe even 22 cards per wing if you count doubles for non-legendaries and golden versions.
robovanburen
Member
I think your suggestions are good ones. Here are a few others I thought of:
Warrior: Baine Bloodhoof
Priest: Velen
Shaman: Farseer Nobundo
Rogue: Zul'Jin
Hunter: Sylvanas Windrunner
Paladin: Tirion, Turalyon
Warlock: Archimonde
Boggles my mind that Blizzard didn't plan for a Universal release on iOS. Sure, it's coming, but come on. It's pretty standard practice these days to release Universal, especially games from big pubs.
I just want to play me some Hearthstone! I play a lot less (and thus spend a lot less) when all I have on me is my phone.
I just want to play me some Hearthstone! I play a lot less (and thus spend a lot less) when all I have on me is my phone.
I too really want to play on my phone. I think that the UI really has to be adjusted for phone though, which is why I'm assuming there was no universal release.
Tuesday is Blizzard maintenance day.
RumblingRosco
Member
I doubt they'd use Sylvanas, Tirion, or Baine since they're already playable cards. Could be wrong though.
I still predict 1,000 gold per wing for Naxx, or maybe 750. I don't see it going above 1,000 or below 500.
Yeah, just found that out.
Agree. Guess we'll fnd out, though. I just find it weird because it feels like, to me, that a lot of the theories about pricing don't take into account that this is a business. The first wing being free is the intro to it, not a price that'll make it so even a whale doesn't have to pay.
I just want to hear more from them about...anything, though. The current meta, timing of Naxxramas, the next "real" expansion after that.
Minsc
Gold Member
Well I think there'll be a little pressure over the next few days... I mean a new PVP season will start, and the community is demanding UTH be addressed, or some aspect of the combo. Silence will speak as loudly as a balance change, if nothing is said when they announce the winners of the ladder at the end of the week, then I guess we all can expect another Hunter dominated ladder for May. If nothing else, I guess they'll have to announce the card back for hitting rank 20 in the next PVP season, awarded at the end of May.
Yeah. I have been resisting making a Hunter deck (I love Warrior, even before the Control Warrior madness), but I might take a swing at it next season just to see what it's like if it doesn't change.
It's not just the balance adjustments commentary or lackthereof, though, I want. I just enjoy reading or hearing them talk to try to see their point of view or hear their outlook on how things are going.
That and it always spawns such delightful messageboard commentary.
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