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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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It's called "Board Control" but it's an aggro deck. Control as an archetype doesn't really mean "Board Control", per se, and really does sort of indicate a more late-game focused strategy. Board Control / Zoo strategies are early game decks with a focus on clearing the board instead of rushing to the face.
Also, Board Control Warlock is literally Zoo. That's the deck that Reynad modified and renamed to Zoo. It plays the same strategy and just replaced the nerfed cards in the deck with better cards / realized that Doomguard is amazing.
The control warrior I've been playing over the last few days is such a refreshing change from the miracle / malygos rogue I was playing last season. Only been going for about 60 wins now but it's taken me to rank 5 so far. Hoping I can push that to legend again in well... 25 days. From what i've played so far it seems about as strong as the miracle rogue deck but with fewer hard counters and less RNG.
The "hard" counters are basically Miracle Rogue and Doomhammer Shaman, two decks that are phased out of the meta when the aggro decks start rising up that make Control Warrior awesome. I'm sad that UtH nerfed means less face Hunter, the deck that you win against like 95% of the time. Then again, it also means not seeing mid-range Hunter, the deck designed to beat Control Warrior lol
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The fuck are you talking about..
KojiKnight
Member
This is probably just my dumbass talking as I don't picture myself a master at all, but I've dropped Ysera out of my Control deck. She helped me win a few, but I dunno, always felt like Alex, Rag,and Grom were the win conditions 99% of the time. She always felt more like bait.
So I popped in Harrison Jones and Sylvanas. Sylvanas + Brawl alone has saved my ass so many times where I would never have reached Ysera and Harrison is so so satisfying versus Hunters and other Warriors and Rogues.
The two Blood Knights and single Abom I popped in seem to help a lot, too, but that's a new variation I toyed with last night. Hasn't lost yet, but hasn't played enough either. I had a 6/6 Blood Knight and an 8/4 and 5/4 Frothing win one last night before the big guys even set foot on the board.
But, agreed on the overall sentiment in the thread. Warrior feels like the class you need the most high powered / rare cards for to make work, but once you do, it's oh-so-fun.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The reason I keep Ysera in is because the long games can make card advantage the primary factor in winning. Keeping her alive one or two turns almost always seals the deal because my hand isn't empty. I also only run one acolyte cause when I had 2 I ALWAYS drew them within two turns of each other and it slowed me down. I agree though you can't drop her until you baited the major removals. That's basically the definition of Cairne. Sylvanas is the same, people freak and start wasting spells/minions just to avoid the rattle. I remember when a sham put reincarnate on his faceless copy of my sylv. My rattle still took the reincarnate lol.
I run my own modified as well, using spiteful smiths and a hogger. The only main card I'm missing is Alex, but I'm just lazy to craft her.. I have the dust by now.
Yeah, I threw Hogger in for giggles and so far he's been worth it just to see the overreactions of the opposing players. Hogger is apparently terrifying, I've found out.
Ysera is usually the first big drop cut from the deck for a utility card (e.g., Harrison to help with the Doomhammer Shaman match-up and then just generically good vs Cycle Hunter, Miracle Rogue, and the mirror) or for stuff like Sylvanas, Faceless, BGH, etc.. She's nice but is usually just excessive so her slot is usually best served as a tech slot for the meta at large. She's also a dead draw in a lot of match-ups (rush Hunter, Zoo) so she's just easy to cut.
omg lag
Just saying that "Control" as an archetype usually denotes the late game strategy. I wouldn't classify Board Control Warlock as an actual full-fledged Control Deck. It's still an aggressive early game deck. It just doesn't ignore your minions. curi named it that to differentiate it from the rush Warlock decks at the time, despite the similarity in construction. Really, it's a Tempo Deck.
I get what you're saying, though. I mean, Tempo as an archetype is basically aggro-control. In that sense, yeah, you can say it's a Control deck. But you'd probably want to clarify it a bit since it's not really a Control deck through and through :x
omg lag
Just saying that "Control" as an archetype usually denotes the late game strategy. I wouldn't classify Board Control Warlock as an actual full-fledged Control Deck. It's still an aggressive early game deck. It just doesn't ignore your minions. curi named it that to differentiate it from the rush Warlock decks at the time, despite the similarity in construction. Really, it's a Tempo Deck.
I get what you're saying, though. I mean, Tempo as an archetype is basically aggro-control. In that sense, yeah, you can say it's a Control deck. But you'd probably want to clarify it a bit since it's not really a Control deck through and through :x
Minsc
Gold Member
I haven't seen it played against me, but an aggro warrior deck with a frothing berserker on the board that lives followed by leeroy + whirlwind sounds pretty amazing. That's 12 damage right there for 5 mana (on an empty board, +1 damage for each other minion that was out), and you can top it off with the other usual buffs/weapons, not bad.
Never really thought about Leeroy + Whirlwind before. I suppose that new weapon would combo well with him too... play the weapon the turn before, 4 to the face, then next turn leeroy + weapon for and additional 10 and it clears the whelps. Add in that berserker from before and you're up to 16.
Never really thought about Leeroy + Whirlwind before. I suppose that new weapon would combo well with him too... play the weapon the turn before, 4 to the face, then next turn leeroy + weapon for and additional 10 and it clears the whelps. Add in that berserker from before and you're up to 16.
The issue is control warrior likes whirlwind and has no use for leeroy, while aggro warrior likes leeroy but can't afford to have whirlwind.
The new weapon might make this feasible though because its a whirlwind packaged with 8 damage to the face. Could potentially replace the reapers if you include cards like worgens since you typically already use the frothings.
partyphone
Banned
yeah the new weapon might make the warrior combo deck a bit more viable since it gives you another option for activating the wargen.
I wish that deck was good because it's fun when it works.
I wish that deck was good because it's fun when it works.
I have a question. Have any of you ever seen a Void Terror played in Hearthstone?
I have played hundreds of games and I still haven't seen it even once. For those of you that don't know, it's a Warlock card with 3/3 stats and cost 3. Its battlecry is that it destroys the minions on either side of it, and gains their health and attack.
For the last few days I have been thinking about why anyone would ever use such a card. It sounds like a really bad thing to do to your board. I started to think that maybe it would be good for creating a giant taunt-creature if you had a way to give it taunt. But what would that gain you exactly? Especially since there are so many cards that destroys any single minions outright. Is it to make your board AOE-proof? But then a sheep or assassinate or any such card would clean your board effectively anyway.
All your eggs in one basket and all that.
Any ideas? Anyone seen the card in play? If so, was it a good play somehow?
I have played hundreds of games and I still haven't seen it even once. For those of you that don't know, it's a Warlock card with 3/3 stats and cost 3. Its battlecry is that it destroys the minions on either side of it, and gains their health and attack.
For the last few days I have been thinking about why anyone would ever use such a card. It sounds like a really bad thing to do to your board. I started to think that maybe it would be good for creating a giant taunt-creature if you had a way to give it taunt. But what would that gain you exactly? Especially since there are so many cards that destroys any single minions outright. Is it to make your board AOE-proof? But then a sheep or assassinate or any such card would clean your board effectively anyway.
All your eggs in one basket and all that.
Any ideas? Anyone seen the card in play? If so, was it a good play somehow?
partyphone
Banned
I hope there's an anti-deathrattle card.
Besides Silence. Maybe there could be a Secret like the mages have to nullify the next magic card, one could instead nullify the next deathrattle?
partyphone
Banned
I mostly see it in arena and it can be okay where if your opponent isn't running silence.
it's just awful in constructed because people have so many ways to deal with big threats that you're likely to trade 3 for 1 when you use it.
partyphone
Banned
or something like blood knight that absorbs deathrattles instead of divine shields.
KojiKnight
Member
Wow does that 1 mana difference change things a lot with hunters. Even the matches I've lost today have felt a lot less frustrating because it felt like I was at least making progress on them (to be fair, I only lost twice to them today). Hasn't seemed to dampen the number of people playing them, at least not yet.
In the early days of beta, I saw it quite often... The problem is there is too much hard removal to put everything into a single card like that. A 12/12 isn't as good as a 3/3, a 4/4/, and a 5/5.
In the early days of beta, I saw it quite often... The problem is there is too much hard removal to put everything into a single card like that. A 12/12 isn't as good as a 3/3, a 4/4/, and a 5/5.
Only thing I can think of is to use it with the upcoming Nerubian Eggs and / or Power Overwhelming. Or maybe if you have a Rivendare and a Cairne down, or a Sylvanas, could use it to force the deathrattle effects, but that's definitely reaching a bit.
I said I'd get to this and I had the time this morning for the Draft. Not sure when I'll get to the games but I'll do those in PMs later if you want me to and just to avoid cluttering the thread with probably a huge post since it'll be a similar turn-by-turn format since I apparently like doing it that way.
Pick 1 - Ravenholdt or Cobra is most likely the pick here. Assassin is fairly generic but it's also a decent finisher for Rogue since you'll probably lack a good card for that. Cobra is solid for controlling the board. Both work as an early pick, though I think I agree more with the Cobra pick just a way to get an early card now. Plus, he's like a pseudo-Assassinate effect as a late draw.
Pick 2 - Harvest Golem without even considering the other two at this point. I would probably just never pick Cold Blood in Arena unless absolutely forced to / already drafted a lot of rush cards.
Pick 3 - Ravenholdt, followed with a sigh of relief that the first pick went to Cobra :x
Pick 4 - I'd give serious consideration to Boulderfist since it's the best generic fatty. Ringleader is a little overvalued in general / Mage, Rogue, Druid popularity hurts the card a bit. This is a sad pack since all three cards are good here and you'd love to take them all but I think I'd have taken Ogre here.
Pick 5 - Assassin's Blade, no question. Elune is alright for Rogue due to the face damage you take but is a bad minion normally and Sap doesn't do enough for an early pick.
Pick 6 - Argent Squire helps setup the early game. Since you have Cold Blood, even better. Sort of.
Pick 7 - I hate Pint-Sized Summoner but I'd seriously consider her here. You lack Deadly Poisons currently to make Blade Flurry a 3 mana 3 Damage AoE (5 Mana if you need to Dagger that turn first) so it's hard to take it highly right now, even after the above Assassin's Blade. Both work depending on which you value more at this time. Since I picked Ogre earlier, I'd have taken the PSS I think but I can see Flurry for this deck so far and just hope for some better quality minions down the road. I can see this going either way depending on how you think the draft will shape itself.
Pick 8 - Venture Co. Mercenary is precisely what you're looking for now. Sinister Strike is a never pick and Betrayal is more-or-less the same.
Pick 9 - Acolyte is a good card, especially with the Cold Blood you did pick, but your early game is really awful so he's an awkward turn 3 play. Spellbreaker helps get you around Taunts and is a more relevant minion body so that's my pick here.
Pick 10 - Defender of Argus all the way.
Looking at the cards overall, the early game right now is really bad as you have Squire, Ringleader, a weak three drop, a conditional four drop, and then Venture Co. Missing the Harvest Golem really hurts things here as it's the kind of 3cc you want for Rogue. Additionally, no Backstabs or Deadly Poisons so far so our focus will be shoring up the early game with early game picks over mid-game stuff.
Pick 11 - You awkwardly take Dread Corsair here and feel a little sad about it.
Pick 12 - River Crocolisk is just too important for you right now. Sprint is weird here since you don't have the early game to support wanting a big card draw. And, well, you NEED early drops for Rogue.
Pick 13 - Stranglethorn Tiger most likely over Acolyte of Pain, though it'd be a different story possibly if earlier picks went differently. Again, AoP is good but it's kind of a loss of early game tempo so right now you're better off just taking the better value card.
Pick 14 - Awkwardly take another 5cc in Fen Creeper after the Tiger pick. This should hopefully just be the last 5cc minion we take, maybe one more. Fan of Knives is just not strong enough to warrant a pick to me.
Pick 15 - You have to take Scarlet Crusader here. She's an amazing 3cc in general and you desperately need her. The second Assassin's Blade is just not offering you anything when you don't have the early game to support overloading your 5cc spot.
Pick 16 - ffs more 5 drops
Spiteful Smith is just the better value here and I'd hindsight hard on the earlier Tiger (though maybe not).Pick 17 - Defias Ringleader. You desperately need the early game.
Pick 18 - Earthen Ring is amazing for Rogue and you need the early game.
Pick 19 - While I do agree with the SSC, she's looking slightly miserable with the inconsistency on being able to have a minion on board for her to buff.
Pick 20 - This is a hard Azure Drake to pass but you need that Knife Juggler.
You REALLY needed to have shored up your early game here. Passing up the Harvest Golem earlier, the River Crocolisk here, and the Scarlet Crusader really hurt things. Your curve could be a little smoother with those picks instead (with a bit higher 3cc than we want currently). Things are looking really rough right now as you don't have the kind of consistency for your 5cc drops to shine as you'll be too far behind on board for them to hit and be relevant. Seriously, where are the Backstabs, Deadly Poisons, Eviscerates, etc.?!
Pick 21 - This is a hard DID to pass as he's amazing for Rogue but you just lack the board for it at this point + Ooze is a big tempo card for vs the weapon classes. I think if the other picks went differently, you could take the DID here but it's still hard to pass your first Ooze.
Pick 22 - Awkward minion is awkward but I think Kobold Geomancer ultimately helps the most here. Wolfrider is still good but he's most likely trading for a 2cc with the way this deck has shaped up so far. I honestly don't know what Betrayal is going to do for you.
Pick 23 - Cult Master is just the only playable, even if you won't typically have the board to support it. I'm not sure what Conceal is going to do as you'll most likely never be ahead on board currently.
Pick 24 - Frost Elemental is actually a really damned good Arena card as it tends to save you a lot of Health. Especially with such big 5ccs played like Venture Co. for him to freeze. Ogre Magi is also a good generic 4cc 4/4. Fan is just not good enough to warrant it here, much less a second one.
Pick 25 - Basically the same as above in regards to Frost Elemental. Cold Blood is still not really pickable.
Pick 26 - I'd take the Defias but I'd like to note back that I'd have taken Ogre over the first one to begin with. Taking a third conditional 2cc is just not worth it here. I'd probably just take the Southsea.
Pick 27 - dear lord.
Pick 28 - Silver Hand Knight feels like the most appropriate pick still, just by virtue of how awkward the Owl kind of is and how bad Betrayal is.
Pick 29 - Here's the thing, because you have _four_ Defias Ringleaders, your turn 2 is actually pretty weak. You'll almost never actually get all these Ringleaders out for value. The Bloodfen Raptor is still probably the best pick here. Ancient Brewmaster will cost you tempo due to the bounce effect and you can't afford that with this deck. Then again, you'll most likely just not have a board going into that turn anyway.
Pick 30 - wow this draft hates you
Overall, the draft quality was low as you saw actually zero Backstabs, Deadly Poisons, and Eviscerates. And no good rares like Perdition's Blade or SI:7 Agent. That said, there were a lot of weird picks in general. Harvest Golem is a hard card to pass up, especially for something like Cold Blood. So many Defias Ringleaders with no way to actually combo them all. Your early game lacks consistency and that's really going to hurt the mid-game focus the deck ended up with. You passed up a lot of important picks for fixing your mana curve and getting your early game setup for things like Cold Blood, Sprint, Assassin's Blade #2, etc. Not sure what your goal was with these picks.
On top of that, there's a lot of missing utility in general with the draft. You saw no Loot Hoarders and were offered two weirdly positioned AoPs. The aforementioned missing Rogue cards. Very few good Battlecries in general. There's a mediocre deck somewhere in that draft but you'd still be left with a Rogue deck with very few of the spells to aid your minions anyway. Even with better picks, this would still be an awkward deck but it should still be capable of a few wins.
I've been doing Arena runs with a Shaman today, getting 9+ wins each time. I keep the typical low level removals like lightning, +3 damage buff, and such. Then in the middle I have good all round minions and then in the end I take all the big heavy hitters I can get my hands on.
I keep playing the heavy hitters and whenever one survives the opponents turn, I use +3 damage buff and windfury on them to double hit their faces. Won 5 games in a row just doing 20 damage per round on them. It works perfectly with the Fire Elemental because the 3 damage battlecry it has helps to clear the enemy minions and then it tends to stay alive if the opponent don't have good removal ready. Then I buff it up and give it windfury. Can do that several times per match even.
Doomhammer+Rockbiter is also great. 10 damage from weapon in 1 turn.
I keep playing the heavy hitters and whenever one survives the opponents turn, I use +3 damage buff and windfury on them to double hit their faces. Won 5 games in a row just doing 20 damage per round on them. It works perfectly with the Fire Elemental because the 3 damage battlecry it has helps to clear the enemy minions and then it tends to stay alive if the opponent don't have good removal ready. Then I buff it up and give it windfury. Can do that several times per match even.
Doomhammer+Rockbiter is also great. 10 damage from weapon in 1 turn.
Super Nothing
Member
I've seen void terror played with a warlock buff spell that grants a minion +4 attack for one turn then it dies when the turn is over. You use the void terror to eat the minion before it dies and he gains the buffed stats as his own. It's not a terrible card, it's a 3/3 for 3 mana with the possibility of buffing it by sacrificing other minions who would probably die soon anyway. It is vulnerable to silence, but you can bait a removal spell so that your later cards are safe from polymorph/hex/assassination.
I saw it once. It was kind of a gimmicky deck. Opponent let me build board playing small creatures here and there and just healing back. When the time came, he used Power Overwhelming(s) and something else (something with charge) to deal damage to face, then Void Terror for a huge creature. He actually just destroyed it before attacking to clear the board because he didn't do it successfully before that. I think he was counting on double Soulfire to kill me, but he discarded one at some point so I had enough life left and he had nothing in had, so he just tapped to death.
There's hints of a good deck with those cards, but it's very poor value atm, and so many decks with big creatures like giants and dragons out there means almost everyone out there is ready to deal with big stuff, so it rarely works.
I actually like Zilea when he's playing well. Last night he played a Control Warrior and dissected the whole match in a very useful way. But the rage stuff does get old.
I'm dying for naxxramas
Based on the revealing of new cards, people are guessing mid-July. But that's complete guesswork though.
Sigh. Oh wells. I'll just keep up my dailly arena runs til then.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I've managed to get a a dual charging berserkers out + whirlwind. I had to do some trades because my opponent had taunted watchers out + some random shit, so in the end I only had a 16/2 berserker. Still won me the game though on turn 7.
I just played against a priest who did really, *really* wacky combos.
Turn 2, he did Doomsayer + Silence + Coin + Inner Fire. Turn 2 7/7. I play Priest, but didn't have a PW so I put a Berserker. I managed to never get hit once by his Doomsayer, but then later I Thoughtstole a Lightspawn, so I put it up with 2 PW:S. What does he do? (in a single turn, mind you).
Silence on it + Cabal Shadow Priest to steal it + Divine Spirit + Inner Fire.
Fun times. It was the weirdest Priest deck I've ever played. The only reason he actually beat me is he Thoughtstole my Rag and I couldn't kill it fast enough.
I've never seen such a gimmicky deck though.
Turn 2, he did Doomsayer + Silence + Coin + Inner Fire. Turn 2 7/7. I play Priest, but didn't have a PW
so I put a Berserker. I managed to never get hit once by his Doomsayer, but then later I Thoughtstole a Lightspawn, so I put it up with 2 PW:S. What does he do? (in a single turn, mind you).Silence on it + Cabal Shadow Priest to steal it + Divine Spirit + Inner Fire.
Fun times. It was the weirdest Priest deck I've ever played. The only reason he actually beat me is he Thoughtstole my Rag and I couldn't kill it fast enough.
I've never seen such a gimmicky deck though.
At 6-0 went against a mage with Ilidan, Geddon, Rag... Guy gets 3 and I don't get even 1, heck, I'd be fine with 1 truesilver. Game pls!!
Next match, Druid with a stupid ass combo:
Innervate Farseer. No problem I got Dino. Nope, he does MoW and hits face x2 with a 6-5 creature. Well, I don't have anything to deal 5 damage turn 3, so I Argent Protector and attack. Then he fucking Savage Roars and goes face 2x again!
Turn 4 I'm at 10 health lol:
Still won because he didn't have a Swipe, which would've murdered me turn 4, and I had a couple of heals, but geez.
Run is sitting at 7-1 but this game goes from manageable to stupid really fucking fast.
Next match, Druid with a stupid ass combo:
Innervate Farseer. No problem I got Dino. Nope, he does MoW and hits face x2 with a 6-5 creature. Well, I don't have anything to deal 5 damage turn 3, so I Argent Protector and attack. Then he fucking Savage Roars and goes face 2x again!
Turn 4 I'm at 10 health lol:
Still won because he didn't have a Swipe, which would've murdered me turn 4, and I had a couple of heals, but geez.
Run is sitting at 7-1 but this game goes from manageable to stupid really fucking fast.
Onion_Relish
Member
The trick to beating the AI expert decks is to get bodies on the deck and simply outlast them. The computer will sacrifice it's minions recklessly and tends to blow its load early. If you can get a few taunters out and make it to around turn 6 or 7 with some heaters, you almost always win. Venture Co Mercenary is awesome against the AI deck because they do everything they can to kill it and waste a lot of resources on it.
Also, I'm on a roll lately with legends. Picked up Cenarius who is totally awesome and then i picked up Nosdormu who is total lawl. I have no idea why I have him in my deck, but he is not gold paned so he isnt worth dusting and he is a big body. Pretty fun deck now though. My late game heat is getting much better.
If you had two low level mobs on the board, dropping Void Terror and having a faceless copy him would give you two pretty good monsters at 8 mana. Unlikely to happen but a gimmick that would be pretty scary
For some reason people now flood the board as if the card was removed. UTH won me more games today then in along while.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
There is nothing more satisfying than never playing more than one minion all game against a hunter and seeing them hold two cards all game.. I can hear their heart break when they have no choice but to play it.
Last Uchiha
Banned
Ok let me explain this
I played the game about 10 hours in total and its really annoying
The last time I played the game I had 4-5 minions (All with Health and Attack 5 or above ) and he had just two minion
I killed them both and still had my all minions then he used a Deathwing and killed all my minions at the same time ! for the next round he used a Nozdormu and win the match
In order to get these two ( Deathwing and Nozdormu) you must get 1600 dust for each of them !!! For me this is a true definition of P2W
I dont want to bother people who love the game I just said my opinion thats all
I dont want to continue this discussion because some people love the game and I dont want to spoil the topic
Sorry All
Or, you know, he could have just opened them in his reward packs from Arena...
Or get them from lucky boosters like I have for all of my legendaries. Every CCG has an element of P2W due to randomized boosters, but don't misunderstand what time and luck can also do for those who don't want to pay.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Playing Jaraxxus when you need him (I had 5HP left) and winning thusly, feels awesome.
Deathwing and Noz are two of the dumbest cards in the whole game.
Back on topic - I have 2 golden UTH. Due to the nerf right now I can DE them for 400 dust each and craft 2 regular UTH for 80. So I'd walk away with 720 dust. But I really like the gold UTH animation - there's snow swirling around the dogs and their jowls flap in the wind. :lol
You don't seem to understand the definition of "definition."
partyphone
Banned
there are a lot of answers to deathwing. polymorph, hex, assassinate, etc. make him follow the rules. playing deathwing is a huge gamble because your oppenent is likely to have hard removal.
is it still paying to win if you can only beat inexperienced players with poorly constructed decks?
is it still paying to win if you can only beat inexperienced players with poorly constructed decks?
Justzisguyukno
Member
My best arena run so far.. 11-3 with a Rogue, and these are my rewards? My 2 extra cards with the 200G + Pack was a Holy Wrath + Golden Holy Wrath..
Lost to 2xMage 1xShaman
This is what my deck was, not surprisingly I made it to game 7 without even seeing Rag, then after that he only showed up on 3 other games, one of course being my last game when Sea Giant and Rag decided to be buddies turn 2/3
Lost to 2xMage 1xShaman
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