I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
All of war's removal is conditional or rng. We don't have skill based cc like sheep or hex or assassinate.
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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
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All of war's removal is conditional or rng. We don't have skill based cc like sheep or hex or assassinate.
RumblingRosco
Member
This is so salty. You're on a roll today man.
But you did say you are increasingly convinced it needs to be nerfed, which implies that you think that it is a disproportionally powerful card. Even if it takes you a couple of turns to get up and running (which is weird, since Warrior is usually the slower deck), it's not as if the Warrior will spam his Hero Power every turn. They have to establish board control too. They won't Armor Up on turn 2 or turn 3 unless they have nothing else to play or deem it not necessary to play more stuff on the board (And if that happens, you probably already gave him the advantage). If you just play the game, they have to deal with the stuff you throw out and can't Armor Up a ton or they have to use Win Axe and lose armor in the process.
And I'm not saying it's the same as Kill Command. I'm saying that if you don't let the Warrior hoard armor like a mad-man, Shield Slam just isn't much more than a minion-only Kill Command. I don't see how a minion-only Spell that is most of the time just slightly more powerful than another (freely targetable) Spell in the game that relies on another resource with the potential to grow more powerful when your opponent ignores that resource, needs a nerf.
And it only 'combos well' with Armorsmith (which you should get rid of as quickly as possible or be punished for leaving it on the board) and Shield Block (which just adds five damage to what should be a 1-3 damage Spell if you mitigate your opponent's armor gain). Worst case scenario is Shield Block + Shield Block + Shield Slam to overkill one of your minions. I don't see the problem. And I certainly don't see why a massive nerf like it removing armor equal to the damage you did (which effectively makes the Spell 'Destroy an enemy minion. Deal damage to your Hero equal to the destroyed minion's health) would be justified.
EDIT:
Also worth considering that killing something like an Ysera with Shield Slam isn't simply hard removal for 1 mana. To kill Ysera with Shield Slam, you would need to Armor Up six times (12 Mana spread over 6 turns) and not take any damage or play Shield Block + Shield Block + Armor Up (8 Mana spread over 3 cards) in one turn, which means wasting that turn and having to hold 3 cards in hand. Compare this to Rogue's Assassinate, which is 5 Mana for one card that destroys a minion regardless of health, buffs, Divine Shields, etc. without needing any external resources, and I just don't see how Shield Slam, which requires significant Mana or card investment to destroy bigger minions and doesn't bypass Divine Shield, requires a nerf. Yeah 'comparing it to another card is not how this works', but that's kind of how it works.
RumblingRosco
Member
When Miracle Rogues go wild.
Someone mentioned this a few posts back (I think that poster saw it live on Twitch), but here is the YouTube version of it.
Someone mentioned this a few posts back (I think that poster saw it live on Twitch), but here is the YouTube version of it.
Not disproportionally, just not enough of a drawback for its cost and how it scales up. I don't think it's the best card ever or anything. Maybe removing full shield is excessive. Maybe it could do face damage too. I just don't particularly like it how it is now.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The act of properly rationing your armor through spells, hero power, and one creature to give a spell some kick takes less skill than a hex? Sounds like you're salty you got bodied by a war who knew how to do that.
You're saying that there's not enough drawback for it's scalability and cost. That's saying that you think that the current upside is too large in comparison with the current downside, which in turn is pretty much saying that the card is disproportionally powerful (since the upside is not proportionate to the downside). If you don't think the card is disproportionally powerful, why call for a nerf?
Not claiming you think it's the best card ever or anything, just trying to argue that there is no need for a nerf.
Control warrior is not any harder to pull of then most other decks.
RumblingRosco
Member
You sound so angry man. You're grossly underestimating the skill needed to not mis-click every time I Hex a Ysera. For the record, I have no problem with Shield Slam, I just find it amusing when people act like they're so talented by using their form of CC over some other form of CC, or really, using any of their class of choice's card over some other class's card.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
And zoo isn't as brainless as people think.. that's not the topic lol. I'm not saying shield slam takes godlike skill to use, but sometimes it takes some very forward thinking to maximize it. War has to jump through those hoops while other classes don't. Same with execute, same with brawl. So we have two cards in our deck that COULD be hard removal, which is less than others. Like another poster said, if you let a war get to a giant amount of armor.. isn't the issue you?
Why are you acting like this is an sf4 thread using shit like salty lol. You said it should be nerfed. I said no. Then I said it can be a dead card in your hand unlike other class' options. No where did I say anything about you, only about the card. You started talking about me. I'm assuming you took the skill based cc joke to heart so you main one of those. Sorry?
Well, I thought you meant proportionally to other cards because you keep bringing other cards up. Obviously if I think it needs to be changed around it's because I don't think it's OK the way it is now.
Why are you arguing this now if you know what I mean? It feels more like you are trying to catch me saying something that isn't exactly right semantically instead of just disagreeing with the point I'm making. Yes, I don't think it has enough of a drawback as it is now, call that whatever you like, but don't put terms in my mouth and argue against those the terms you think I'm implying.
RumblingRosco
Member
Where did I ever say it should be nerfed? My last post literally says "For the record, I have no problem with Shield Slam."
I think you're confusing me with inky actually. Lemme set it straight; I didn't mean to insult you, I was laughing at the situation entirely. You know why Shaman has Hex? Because we don't have a removal option such as Gorehowl. Classes are balanced around their entire card set, not a single card. Hex is an amazing card no doubt, which is why I hold on to that bastard until I absolutely have no other options; the skill in using Hex comes with knowing when to hold it and when to not hold it and the same goes for Polymorph etc.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The you should have been he. Just crossed the posters. Either way my point stands, how am I salty or angry when I'm sharing zero stories for or against slam and stating facts. Shield slam is a weak/dead card UNLESS xyz. Doesn't need to be weaker. I guess salty is a synonym for correct nowadays.
I didn't take it as an insult lol, just didn't know what I did to be called salty. Gorehowl is not a proper removal option lol. Insanely expensive. Easily countered. Requires wasting my shield slam armor lol.
The skill in slam still trumps holding a poly or hex. Fact.
You still make it sound like warriors removal takes more skill then other classes. Sure you need to build armor to use shield slam but your deck should be build around that anyway.
Like with every removal in the game its all about using it at most opportune time, and carefully estimating your opponents plays and his deck, in order to know when that time might be.
Btw I do agree with you that the card does not need a nerf.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
If there's a skill scale, poly would be 3 of 5, and slam 3.5 of 5. Again, not brain surgery, but it takes way more than just holding the card for the right time. Dropping enough of your minions to whirlwind them so you get just the right amount of armor for a slam. That's a bit different than oh, he dropped a rag, drag sheep on it. Most players don't even see that option. To them they think their slam is dead.
RumblingRosco
Member
You're still missing the point. I'm not saying anything regarding whether Shield Slam is an overpowered card, a weak card, or a middle-of-the-road card. And I agree, it is useless without some thought going into how it is played. What I'm trying to explain to you is that you're selling short the skill needed to properly use crowd control spells in general, whether it be Arcane Explosion, Hex, Polymorph, Hunter's Mark, whatever. Just because any one card can stand alone as excellent on its own does not mean it is some sort of no-skill, one-hit, insta-kill card because you have to very strongly consider the target. For example, if I am facing a Ramp Druid and Polymorph a Druid of the Claw on turn 5 I probably just lost the game.
Why?
Because I lacked the skill, foresight, or whatever it is needed to hold onto my removal for the real threats (Ironbark, Ragnaros, Ysera, Ancient of War, etc).
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The skill you're explaining though is common sense for those of us playing these games for decades. I don't even feel the need to bring that topic up. How many of us face people everyday that sheep our turn 4 yeti? I'm sure you throw your hands up in the air like I do and sigh for having to play out the rest of the game knowing the outcome.
I'm saying a card like shield slam takes a slight bit more than "use it at the right time" which I'm sure makes some people (not anyone here, in general) who don't get that next layer say stuff about it that isn't warranted.
I'm saying a card like shield slam takes a slight bit more than "use it at the right time" which I'm sure makes some people (not anyone here, in general) who don't get that next layer say stuff about it that isn't warranted.
Calm down, I'm not trying to put anything in your mouth or 'trying to catch you say something that isn't exactly right'. You say that you are increasingly convinced that a card needs to be nerfed, which leads me to say that you think that card is disproportionally powerful. You think I'm referring to other cards and post in that context, I try and clear up why I said something. There is no need to say that I'm putting words in your mouth, because I am not.
You call for a nerf of a card, I disagree and explain why to try and convince you of that. Yes, we could just disagree and move on, but I didn't come to GAF just to occasionally tell people I disagree with them and then move on. I disagree with the point you are making, but I also want you to understand why.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Shield slam has every one on edge lol. No one is salty, sad, mad, glad.. we're just talking..
LOL, I'm calm. You said this: "If you don't think the card is disproportionally powerful, why call for a nerf?" when my definition of "disproportionally powerful" is not the same as yours. You called it that, I didn't. You are judging my opinion and the card on those terms you brought up. I'm not.
And I understand why you and others disagree with the point I'm making. It's not rocket science. I don't see why you'd think I don't understand your point of view or you think you won't be done until you convince me otherwise. I am just of a different opinion.
I just don't agree with equating 1 to 1 with how other cards work, and I'm trying to see it in its own terms, within its own deck. If you think I'm completely wrong that's fine with me. I'm not campaigning on GAF to go to the streets and have it changed. I made an observation based on my experience with the game, just like I think several other cards could be tweaked.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I was gonna ask if that guy was a new player or something but his rank.. so he's had to have faced miracle before.. he doesn't know how to use shadowstep to set up a next turn?
That move is not that common.Not every rogue plays mana addict.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
It's definitely not an addict exclusive move, nor even miracle exclusive. Either way, saw this guy's name before and didn't know he was just a random streamer.
RumblingRosco
Member
Yeah, he is running a free to play Priest to Legendary I guess. I just catch his highlights on YouTube. He's a solid player but I haven't found him to be extraordinary in the clips I've seen, but I enjoy watching his antics regardless.
Just fought a Mage who didn't play a single monster for 8 turns, it's like her deck was nearly all spell. I don't think it was meant to be tempo considering she wasted a Frostbolt and an Ice lance on my warlock.
Edit : And the shadowstep/mana addict rogue thing just happened to me. I knew it was going to happen, there was nothing I could do
Next time I see that I'll just concede right away it'll save me the time.
Edit : And the shadowstep/mana addict rogue thing just happened to me. I knew it was going to happen, there was nothing I could do
Next time I see that I'll just concede right away it'll save me the time.cpp_is_king
Member
I was the mage in this situation last night. It was really unpleasant. I mulliganed almost my entire hand up front and *still* got back an entire hand worth of unplayable cards. Wasn't until my 5th turn that I could actually do something useful, and I was already almost dead at that point.
Why not buff instead? That's the key token combo.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Amaz was very close to lethal. Maybe if he used thoughtsteal and got either a cold blood or sinister strike he would have won because of mind blast + 3/4 + his board was lethal iirc.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
I regret crafting Ysera sometimes. He's far too slow with how aggressive most of these decks are and a good portion of my matches I end or the other person ends me before he even gets a chance to come out. He has won a good few of my matches, though.
Rag is the shit.
Rag is the shit.
I had that thought as well
Would have saved the students had the rogue chosen to stay as well.
Plus I probably would have waited until Turn 2 and gotten an extra 2/2 student.
Yeah, I always try to save innervate or coin to generate a token. I might coin out a teacher turn three then innervate pow, but I'd feel uneasy trying to play her before that.
salty transcends genres. to be one with the salt is to achieve inner harmony.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
And high blood pressure.
Always drink lots of water!
Which is the best class to win by attrition, constantly trading and clearing the board until your opponent is top decking? Turtling up and stretching out the game just seems to be my natural play style. I've been having some success with a Priest, but maybe there's something better out there.
Priest is good, but Druid can do the same thing and is a better class.
cpp_is_king
Member
I'm starting to realize how lucky I was that the very first pack I ever opened contained Leeroy Jenkins.
I think you need a good number of expensive cards to make a good Druid deck, though. Priest is relatively cheap.
Justzisguyukno
Member
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