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[Violet_0]

How should he be needed? Cost five mana? Whelps have taunt?

battlecry: " also summons a knife juggler for your opponent"

 

[dk_]

battlecry: " also summons a knife juggler for your opponent"

Hehe, that would be something. :-D

 

[Minsc]

I saw it mentioned somewhere he should auto-cast himself if he's in your hand (or drawn during a turn) and you have 4 mana crystals, probably would be more appropriate.

 

[Haly]

I saw it mentioned somewhere he should auto-cast himself if he's in your hand (or drawn during a turn) and you have 4 mana crystals, probably would be more appropriate.

He better be an 8/2 then.

 

[RumblingRosco]

I saw it mentioned somewhere he should auto-cast himself if he's in your hand (or drawn during a turn) and you have 4 mana crystals, probably would be more appropriate.

That'd be fun, but absolutely worthless in any practical case.

 

[frequency]

I think Leeroy is fine. He's just used a lot in the current meta but that can change. I don't want it to end up being a Tinkmaster, where no one uses it anymore.

I think the "bigger problem" is Gadgetzan Auctioneer. The only change I would like to see to it is to make it a legendary card so you can only have 1 in your deck.

 

[Minsc]

I think Leeroy is fine. He's just used a lot in the current meta but that can change. I don't want it to end up being a Tinkmaster, where no one uses it anymore.

I think the "bigger problem" is Gadgetzan Auctioneer. The only change I would like to see to it is to make it a legendary card so you can only have 1 in your deck.

My ideal change to Auctioneer would be to only have it process on spells that cost 1 mana or more (at the time of casting - it wouldn't work on spells that cost 2 turned to 0).

That or turn it in to Pagle, and have each spell give it a 50% chance of working, which also makes more sense thematically.

 

[ZealousD]

Its a balanced card for any other class. You can't make it straight up worse than Azure Drake.

 

[Ikkarus]

Yeah it's the cycling of cards which makes Miracle rogue so deadly, so if you take away the ability to cycle through pretty much your whole deck then the miracle rogue dies with it.

I faced a miracle deck today and he concealed the Gadgetzan only for me to summon Tinkmaster and turn it in to a Squirrel, felt good!

I still got beaten though with his Mana Addict charged up to 22 Atk.

 

[johnsmith]

The problem isn't Leroy or auctioneer. It's the fact that all their spells are so cheap.

 

[Minsc]

Its a balanced card for any other class. You can't make it straight up worse than Azure Drake.

I don't think any other class has quite the amount of 0-cost spells as Rogue does, so changing it to cycling cards that cost 1 or more would only be a slight nerf to other classes, and a large nerf to rogue (which is the goal). And it'd still work for Rogue, they'd just not be able to cycle it 20x.

If you play it then a 1-cost spell, it is not straight up worse than Azure Drake, it is better, just from having played 1 spell, because you have a draw engine on the board. That is significantly better than a spell power +1.

If you had the choice of being unable to kill your opponent's Drake or Auctioneer, I assure you people will not choose to let the Auctioneer live over a Drake.

 

[Haly]

There's only one 0 mana Rogue card worth playing outside of Miracle, and that's Backstab. If you changed Auctioneer to triggering only off of 1+ mana spells, those spells, like Kidnapper and Patient Assassin, might as well not exist.

 

[AntiFacebook]

I think Leeroy is fine. He's just used a lot in the current meta but that can change. I don't want it to end up being a Tinkmaster, where no one uses it anymore.

I think the "bigger problem" is Gadgetzan Auctioneer. The only change I would like to see to it is to make it a legendary card so you can only have 1 in your deck.

How did tinkmaster work before the nerf?

 

[Minsc]

There's only one 0 mana Rogue card worth playing outside of Miracle, and that's Backstab. If you changed Auctioneer to triggering only off of 1+ mana spells, those spells, like Kidnapper and Patient Assassin, might as well not exist.

Well with preparation they get to turn many more spells in to a 0-cost cards too, so it cycles on the prep, and then again on the now 0-cost card. It's pretty easy to abuse, I think.

Edit: I'm not 100% sure what the solution should be, but a combination that draws out your deck in ~2-3 turns (and not even late game turns, like turns 6-8) is not a good thing for the game.

 

[frequency]

I still like making it a legendary. Then it works the same for everyone and isn't really a nerf. But you can't rely on drawing it as much as if there are 2 in your deck.

Generally speaking, I think that Miracle Rogue exists as a viable deck is awesome for the game. We need variety like that. I want it to stay the way it is mostly, just a little less consistent (only 1 auctioneer per deck).

How did tinkmaster work before the nerf?

You were able to target it. Now it's random.
It was a great answer to big threats.

 

[Ikkarus]

How did tinkmaster work before the nerf?

He could target the opponents minion, now it's a random minion on the board.

 

[Haly]

Edit: I'm not 100% sure what the solution should be, but a combination that draws out your deck in ~2-3 turns (and not even late game turns, like turns 6-8) is not a good thing for the game.

This is where we'll forever disagree, because I think a card game that doesn't have a single degenerate combo like Miracle is a poor card game.

 

[AntiFacebook]

You were able to target it. Now it's random.
It was a great answer to big threats.

But you still could end up with your oponnent having a 5/5 minion, which is also risky.

 

[frequency]

But you still could end up with your oponnent having a 5/5 minion, which is also risky.

Not necessarily. Would you rather your opponent have a 5/5 or a 8/8? Ragnaros is an obvious Tink target too. Need to get passed that 5/10 taunt? Tink.

And you can use it to your own benefit too. Someone Hexed your minion and left you with a 0/1 board and you don't have much else in your hand? Tink it for a chance at 5/5. Have a Kill Command and none of your minions on board are beasts? Tink.

 

[Minsc]

This is where we'll forever disagree, because I think a card game that doesn't have a single degenerate combo like Miracle is a poor card game.

The problem I think is compounded also by the fact that conceal costs 1 mana (also cycling itself) and prevents you from dealing with the auctioneer in the normal manner. Or even shadowstep, which will cycle itself and prevent you from dealing with the auctioneer and now it costs 3 to play next turn and lets them get even more more spells out with the excess mana.

Another viable solution I've seen suggested is to just make the Auctioneer 4/2, like Cult Master. That may be the best solution yet I think actually. Then it's vulnerable to much more AoE, making stealth not as much an issue.

 

[Haly]

I would have it changed to a 5/2 if we go in that direction.

4/2 for 5 is just pitiful.

Making Conceal cost 2 would also work, pushing back the combo by one turn without a Prep.

 

[scy]

I feel like more anti-Stealth in general is all that's really needed. The freebie turn where Auctioneer is essentially guaranteed to survive is what makes him so much better for Miracle Rogue than, say, Shaman.

 

[partyphone]

auctioneer is the problematic card in the deck. needing rogue spells would kill the class. no form of it would be viable. the fair rogue deck is awful as it is. nerfing leeroy doesn't do much. making him a 5/2, for example, means you still have 15 points of burst with only 3 cards. but the only reason you have that burst is because you drew your entire deck.

the question is how do you change auctioneer so that it's still a good card but not a broken card. I'd rather they go the sylvanas route and just make it cost 1 more mana rather than the tinkmaster route where they killed the card dead.

 

[inky]

I don't agree with a nerf to Auctioneer to be honest. Rogue is the only class that can abuse it like that, so Rogue is the "problem". I have 2 Auctioneers in a Druid deck and even with so many spells and draw enabling cards it is hardly abusable and actually too slow to pull off insane combos like that.

 

[Haly]

The problem with anti-Stealth is that it's just so narrow. There's only one class that really makes use of Stealth and that's Rogue. Forcing people to play either Miracle or Anti-Miracle is not good balance, as much as I like Miracle. The great thing about Ooze is that it's a good vanilla body and versatile against a wide range of classes. An anti-Stealth card like how Ooze is anti-Weapon would have to be really good, maybe too good, in order to balance out the occasions when it's not being used against stealth.

That being said, here's my immediate idea:

Sentry-Bot
3 Mana
Battlecry: All minions lose Stealth. Draw a card for each minion that loses Stealth this way.
Taunt
1/3

 

[scy]

True, it is rather narrow. However, I'm not really sure anything to destroy Auctioneer as a card really answers things. Delaying the setup by a turn may be enough (+1 Conceal or Auctioneer cost) but having some form of Stealth hate could just be beneficial in general. Especially if Naxx adds any other Stealth neutrals of note.

Also, I was thinking of basically the same thing, eating stealth for card draw. Basically priced "at cost" for the body with zero-cost upside. Though I'd make it a 2/3 Taunt probably, or just go the Blood Knight 3/3 vanilla route.

Well, we'll see I guess. I just think adding Stealth hate means more meaningful Stealth cards in general can be added alongside it.

 

[Kosma]

Today i got so burned out on hearthstone. Think it hit me after looking at my old magic cards.

This card pool is really claustropobic and so are the decks I encounter.

 

[Haly]

Blood Knight route would warrant Epic rarity. I was thinking more Common or Rare.

 

[Kosma]

Blood knight route wouldnt be good imho, divine shield can be broken by anyone.

Stealth so far only has one counter which is silly.

Maybe they can just cap the amount of cards you can draw per turn.

 

[FStop7]

Stunlocking in WoW was neutralized by diminishing returns. Perhaps the same will be done in Hearthstone. The more spells you cast in a single turn the less effective they are.

 

[Haly]

Stunlocking in WoW was neutralized by diminishing returns. Perhaps the same will be done in Hearthstone. The more spells you cast in a single turn the less effective they are.

Wouldn't work with card games at all, not nearly enough granularity to create diminishing returns.

Although that brings up an interesting idea:

Gadgetzan Auctioneer
5 mana
Whenever you cast a spell, draw a card and Gadgetzan Auctioneer loses one health.
4/5

 

[Bizazedo]

Today i got so burned out on hearthstone. Think it hit me after looking at my old magic cards.

This card pool is really claustropobic and so are the decks I encounter.

I have a lot of doubts / concerns / night terrors that Blizzard is not going to release cards quickly enough.

Still giving them the benefit of the doubt since I was in beta for a long time and you shouldn't *really* count that time period....but still.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Wouldn't work with card games at all, not nearly enough granularity to create diminishing returns.

Although that brings up an interesting idea:

Gadgetzan Auctioneer
5 mana
Whenever you cast a spell, draw a card and Gadgetzan Auctioneer loses one health.
4/5

Sounds good yeah. The auctioneer especially is just insane, you can't beat the amount of card draw certain classes can get from him.

By certain classes I mostly mean rogues. One of which put an 8/8 Van Cleef on the board at turn 2 just now. I have never been so thankful for my pitiful little owl in my entire life.

 

[Oscar]

Just Harrison Jones'd a Lord Jaraxxus, drew 8 cards lmao.

 

[Raxus]

How should he be needed? Cost five mana? Whelps have taunt?

5 mana seems the best solution apart from giving him spell shield Still does a crazy amount of damage but he can no longer do OTK's so easily.

 

[AstroLad]

What are you supposed to do against Jarraxus exactly? Just kill the player before he comes out? Think I'm 0-4 when he comes out maybe I just don't have the right tools (rope-a-dope Mage yes I made that up).

 

[zoukka]

What are you supposed to do against Jarraxus exactly? Just kill the player before he comes out? Think I'm 0-4 when he comes out maybe I just don't have the right tools (rope-a-dope Mage yes I made that up).

Jaraxxus does practically nothing when he's played beyond the lifegain. If you were ahead, you are still ahead. If the game was at a standstill or topdeck-mode any beefy legendary is trouble. Though yeah if you play a passive mage, then I can see Jaraxxus being a pain.

 

[Oscar]

What are you supposed to do against Jarraxus exactly? Just kill the player before he comes out? Think I'm 0-4 when he comes out maybe I just don't have the right tools (rope-a-dope Mage yes I made that up).

Jarraxus is only troublesome for me (Control Warrior) if he taunts the Infernal via argus or sunfury.

 

[Ashodin]

Alright it's time to drive harder towards Legend rank today!

 

[Minsc]

So I made a Miracle Rogue deck for fun, to see how it really works, and I lost both games I played (both against Druids). In both games, I made it until around turn 8 or 9, did full mulligans (one game I was first the other I had the coin), and neither game did I see a single Auctioneer out of all the cards I drew for both games.

So this whole miracle rogue thing kinda sucks when the game doesn't give you an auctioneer in your first 15 cards with full mulligans I must say.

What are you supposed to do against Jarraxus exactly? Just kill the player before he comes out? Think I'm 0-4 when he comes out maybe I just don't have the right tools (rope-a-dope Mage yes I made that up).

Have a minion or two on board when he casts it, then use the minion + spells to do 15 damage?

 

[FStop7]

I love how crazy the late game gets when playing control. So many big and dramatic finishes. I lost to a priest who pulled Velen out at the end. He was able to outlast me on fatigue. The game went nearly 40 turns and waa this big struggle the whole way. Another game ended with twin Yseras, one of them buffed with 3 Nightmare cards, and then a Ysera's Awakening wave of green fire to finish.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Today i got so burned out on hearthstone. Think it hit me after looking at my old magic cards. .

I play Legacy and Vintage MTG and what's weird is that the effective card pool of constructed playable cards in those formats, spanning 20 years of game history, isn't actually that much larger than Hearthstone's effective playables.

 

[scy]

I play Legacy and Vintage MTG and what's weird is that the effective card pool of constructed playable cards in those formats, spanning 20 years of game history, isn't actually that much larger than Hearthstone's effective playables.

Shardless BUG and Esper Deathblade forever.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Have a minion or two on board when he casts it, then use the minion + spells to do 15 damage?

Pretty much that. Late game it shouldn't be too hard to do 15 damage. Having said that, I use a Jaraxxus deck, I combine it with Giants, Sunfuries and Argus, so I usually do have the ability to prepare properly before putting him on the board.

Paladins are probably the best class against this tactic, but for a mage, just make sure not to spend your removal too early, especially those fireballs. Logical in any circumstance I guess, but that's usually the mistake I see them make.

 

[Kosma]

I play Legacy and Vintage MTG and what's weird is that the effective card pool of constructed playable cards in those formats, spanning 20 years of game history, isn't actually that much larger than Hearthstone's effective playables.

Is it because cards are removed or what?

Cards in MTG do seem more complex though, as is the play itself since you have lands/interrupts.

 

[Alur]

Wouldn't work with card games at all, not nearly enough granularity to create diminishing returns.

Although that brings up an interesting idea:

Gadgetzan Auctioneer
5 mana
Whenever you cast a spell, draw a card and Gadgetzan Auctioneer loses one health.
4/5

That's probably the best suggestion I've heard so far outside of making the auctioneer legendary. What a cheesy legendary he'd look like sitting next to mythical lore figures like Grommash, Illidan, and Alexstrasza.

So I made a Miracle Rogue deck for fun...

So this whole miracle rogue thing kinda sucks when the game doesn't give you an auctioneer in your first 15 cards with full mulligans I must say.

This has been my experience when playing the deck. I played maybe 6 ranked games, won three and lost three. In the three I lost, I either found no auctioneer or in one game I found one auctioneer but no conceal and I was up against it so I played him. He obviously got insta-gibbed.

When I play against it, however, auctioneers all over the place it seems like. I watch Kolento and co. and it never fails to pop up for them. They might not always win, but they always seem to get the cards to win.

 

[PsionBolt]

Is it because cards are removed or what?

It's because those formats are extremely high-power, so the majority of cards just aren't good enough and so no one plays them. I'd personally still say there's much more variation in Legacy than in Hearthstone, though.

 

[ferr]

So just jumping into this. Are daily quests and getting 3 wins the only way to get coins? Seems so slow.

Any sites with card info / popular decks info?

 

[Kosma]

You can get gold, packs and dust in Arena mode too. Or just buy some packs. Actually buying some packs at the start is better then later due to diminishing returns.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/ is a good site

I think just doing the dailies you will be able to buy 3/5 packs a week.

Many people have been playing since last year here

It's because those formats are extremely high-power, so the majority of cards just aren't good enough and so no one plays them. I'd personally still say there's much more variation in Legacy than in Hearthstone, though.

Makes sense, if you arent the best you aint worth playing. Min maxing forever

 

[FStop7]

I racked up 660 gold over the past 4 or 5 days just doing daily quests and getting the 10 gold for 3 wins bonuses. You can get wins quickly in casual with a zoo deck.