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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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Professor Lich
Member
So here is my redone weird no miracles miracle rogue.
Pretty much the idea is to cycle through the deck with draw minions and set up a large damage turn with a charge card, shadow step, faceless, and cold blood. I was worried about the higher cost draw minions, but they work out really well for trading and taking hits from targeted spells that before would hit me in the face. Spell power has also been really useful as well. Still not an amazing 70/30 deck the pros have made, but I'm proud to say I made a deck that is somewhat sort of kind of viable in someway sometimes.
Pretty much the idea is to cycle through the deck with draw minions and set up a large damage turn with a charge card, shadow step, faceless, and cold blood. I was worried about the higher cost draw minions, but they work out really well for trading and taking hits from targeted spells that before would hit me in the face. Spell power has also been really useful as well. Still not an amazing 70/30 deck the pros have made, but I'm proud to say I made a deck that is somewhat sort of kind of viable in someway sometimes.
Onion_Relish
Member
So I just picked up Malygos which is a card I was always interested in. Thinking of ways I can incorporate him into my decks. Already found a way to slide him into my mage deck, but i'm having trouble moving him into any other deck. I know he used to be popular in rogue decks so I might fiddle around with that a bit tonight, but anyone else have any recommendations?
How about Reynad's troll deck
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/59641-reynads-malygos-druid-super-dennis-a-k-a-draw-to
I don't know how he manages to win with this thing, but he does.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/59641-reynads-malygos-druid-super-dennis-a-k-a-draw-to
I don't know how he manages to win with this thing, but he does.
Fragamemnon
Member
I had the most absurd game vs. Malygos Rogue the other night, so that deck still seems viable. There's Reynad's Dennis Druid deck linked in the last post but that one goes wwaaaay deep.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Man, it feels really good to beat someone with a golden hero portrait. I just beat a Druid named Nomad with my custom Paladin deck.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Miracle Rogue is fun, but TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY inconsistent. Kinda regret spending the dust to craft it now.
Woulda been better off with token druid or some shit.
Woulda been better off with token druid or some shit.
No it's very consistent, but the hardest deck to play.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Disagree. When it works, it works and can beat the best of them, but the luck of the draw is so necessary to it functioning as a deck you're gonna be fucked at least 20% of the time, regardless of the matchup. Adding in the RNG factor of the coin and the extra card to mulligan compounds the issue - winrate probably increases by at least 10% with the coin.
I dunno - I've been having terrible streaks lately which may be influencing my opinion, but 70% of what I see on ladder is aggro, and Miracle Rogue is far too slow to combat turn 5/6/7 kills when you're only starting to get the card drawing engine running by then, if at all. A farseer or two isn't enough.
Whoa. I knew I had dust from pure extra cards for one leg, but when I subsequently went through gold commons/rares for which I had a normal version (and a few that were just completely useless), that was already enough for a second leg. So now I have Thalnos and Leeroy while the unplayable legs I pulled are still intact, and I have a bunch of fully functional decks already.
I feel like making some loldecks and playing with the bad legs before I dust them, but I'm sure I'll turn them into Alex and Edwin soon. Can't afford all the rares and epics that go into miracle and handlock right away, but that's sorted out with maybe two weeks of play.
In the netdeck department, so far I tried some aggro token mage, secret mage and aggro hunter, and had a ton of fun. But even better was building my own cheap warrior deck to celebrate opening the warrior rares and commons. Played a match against some priest who loaded the board with Lightwell and a Cleric; I went Amani, Frothing, Axe, Whirlwind, and finished at turn 5 with a second Whirlwind and Kor'Kron for ~25 damage in the face. LOLOLOL
I feel like making some loldecks and playing with the bad legs before I dust them, but I'm sure I'll turn them into Alex and Edwin soon. Can't afford all the rares and epics that go into miracle and handlock right away, but that's sorted out with maybe two weeks of play.
In the netdeck department, so far I tried some aggro token mage, secret mage and aggro hunter, and had a ton of fun. But even better was building my own cheap warrior deck to celebrate opening the warrior rares and commons. Played a match against some priest who loaded the board with Lightwell and a Cleric; I went Amani, Frothing, Axe, Whirlwind, and finished at turn 5 with a second Whirlwind and Kor'Kron for ~25 damage in the face. LOLOLOL
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Do us proud! How do you get into this tourny, anyway?
You know the grind really starts at rank 5, do you?
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying, but I hear it's quite the grind from 5 and up to legend. There's no more winning streaks, and the competition apparently ramps up considerably.
I think my rank last season was 6 or 7 -- I feel I just got bored of the game though, rather than not being able to progress -- so all of this is just second-hand info.
But I hope you do make it!
Edit: beaten!
Fragamemnon
Member
Miracle isn't that great against Zoo or Paladin Aggro (especially Zoo if they get the coin/extra card), but the usage of the five or six "flex slots" in the list can really make a difference. Stuff like Fan of Knives and even Perdition's Blade can make a big difference in the aggro matchups.
Officerrob
Banned
5 to legend takes much more time than it takes just to get to 5
Sure if you just hope to survive to Gadgetzan town without sacrificing your cards, then the deck feels like a dice roll. What makes it the most hard deck to maneuver is exactly the balance of surviving the board control game without sacrificing too much late game. No other deck has as many decisions on every turn as Miracle and I'm not even talking about solely the turns after you play your Gadgetzan.
It's a lousy deck if you are not an experienced player or one who loves to count and calculate every move and turn. In other words, you need to be good to make it work consistently.
Officerrob
Banned
Good lord Dreamhack caster's, could you possibly ride Ekop's dick any more?
Happy to see him lose
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Ekop has a big presence (unfortunately) in the scene. He got what he deserved. Also all the miracle haters should watch the last two games with RDU as he wins both games without Gadget. You can watch the after game interview to see why he made the decisions he did that won as well.
If Reynad wins it all it would be hilarious.
If Reynad wins it all it would be hilarious.
Hearing that makes me glad I'm on the way to building it. In the same vein I also like to pick fighting game characters which can't possibly work with buttonmashing and enforce good play. Doesn't matter if I only play a game for a while and don't end up being any good in that time; I have more fun when I'm getting rekt but learning correct play than if I'm beating some people with a dead-end strategy that isn't actually good.
How easy is it to figure out your mistakes after the fact and learn from your losses when playing miracle?
Can't really think of anything else beyond recording your games. HS doesn't store any game history beyond a turn or two (which is annoying).
All esports casting is like this. There's zero objectivity or expertise.
Is it liked in general or does everyone just accept it?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The guest caster is the expertise. Every player they've had has been great. I mean they have fuckin Tides right now. Artosis is also an expert but I think he's not on top of HS recently as he is with SC at all times. The other two can fuck off.
I don't like when the commentators get into, "How would you play this turn" conversations.
Which always ends up with, "Oh wow, he did THAT instead!"
or
"That was a good play since I thought of it and it was so obvious."
But I don't know if there is really much to talk about in something like Hearthstone when they're just sitting there thinking how to play the turn, so it fills dead air I guess?
Which always ends up with, "Oh wow, he did THAT instead!"
or
"That was a good play since I thought of it and it was so obvious."
But I don't know if there is really much to talk about in something like Hearthstone when they're just sitting there thinking how to play the turn, so it fills dead air I guess?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
What else is there to talk about? There are multiple ways to play a hand usually so they walk through every possible outcome outside of the usual best one. Isn't that what the commentators should be doing to point stuff out to the viewer that they may not have seen? And then when the player makes a different play they've set up that line of thought. No?
Fragamemnon
Member
Amaz , topdecking and wrecking.
Broseybrose
Member
Happy for AMAZ!
A great top 4. Should be a fun finish.
A great top 4. Should be a fun finish.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Can't beat top deck.
BTW guys, I notice a lot of the pro players using pen and paper extensively while they play. I'm curious what kinds of stuff they are using it for. I guess keeping track of what's left in your deck and what's likely to still be left in the opponent's...? Do any of you use notes for something while playing?
Also, Dreamhack rules state "You are allowed to take notes during games but not use any 3rd party information". Any idea if that means they can carry notes into a match (I can imagine you could do a lot with that given enough thought and preparation), or does it just mean you can bring blank paper to each separate match?
Also, Dreamhack rules state "You are allowed to take notes during games but not use any 3rd party information". Any idea if that means they can carry notes into a match (I can imagine you could do a lot with that given enough thought and preparation), or does it just mean you can bring blank paper to each separate match?
Fragamemnon
Member
It really helps when you have a turn time constraint (made worse by the iOS interface) to have useful information presented on paper in front of you. The players by and large know most of the content of the decks being played, and are jotting down what their opponents are playing so that they can make the best play possible if they can't make a read for a specific card based on the opponent's sequence of plays.
Being unable to view your opponents graveyard is a huge oversight. If you want to keep track of your opponent's spells and predict their upcoming movies you have to write down what cards you killed/spells they played to calculate if playing a particular card down is safe and cost effective.
It's because most casters are not pro.
Speaking solely of e-sports, casters tend be people who are:
1) Enthusiastic
2) Personable
3) Not camera shy
4) Can talk a lot
5) Willing to do their homework
6) Self managing
They are entrepreneurs, leveraging the new entertainment medium of e-sports to create a career out of a hobby. In time, every e-sports scene will have its retired pro players who go caster, like Artosis, but Hearthstone is way too young for that. Most of the current casters are just dedicated fans. They can read and regurgitate knowledge bites gleaned from articles, or other casters, or pro interviews, or whatever. This is easy. It just requires you to keep your knowledge base up to date by interacting with the scene.
They do not have a pro's level of insight into a game, however, as much as they might pretend to. For a card game, insight is everything because 99% of the game takes place inside the player's heads. When Reynad's SI:7 agent gets Deadly Poison'd on turn 3, he's thinking:
"Well, that's one less Deadly Poison in the future."
"What does this Deadly Poison tell me about his hand?"
"Did he use all his mana last turn?"
"What cards might he not have that he would use Deadly Poison so early, or leave up free mana?"
"Is this a bait/bluff?"
"What should I play knowing what I know now about his hand?"
"What does playing X over Y tell him about my hand?"
"What kind of impression of my hand do I want to give him for the foreseeable future?"
Whereas a caster will usually only see:
"Looks like Reynad lost some tempo, let's spin this into a 3 minute side discussion."
I guarantee you all the casters put together aren't even spending half the mental effort on the game as the actual players.
Fragamemnon
Member
I kind of like that there is no graveyard zone in Hearthstone. That means there are no cards that interact with it, making the game better because graveyard interactions are almost always degenerate in nature.
If you are playing on your home PC you can install something like Track-O-Bot ( https://trackobot.com/ ) to log and list the cards you and your opponent has played in an overlay.
That's nice and all but it couldn't hurt to have one in game >.<
Stream works for me. A few of my friends said it's down for them though. Keep refreshing.
Is this one better than Hearthstone Tracker?
looks like it's not working for me -.-
Yeah wtf is this trash? I'm getting absolutely nothing
Fragamemnon
Member
Not really. I like Hearthstone tracker for the annontations and statistics overviews it provides.
Stream quality is fine here but watching competitive hearthstone without copypasta, chat emoticons, and donger faces really affects the entertainment experience. It's like going to ballgame where the stadium is empty.
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