Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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Officerrob said:
Because it worked? We know it happened in the semi final as well now
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It's still on the organizers to setup the tournament in a way where this can't happen. You can speculate about him cheating but it's just speculation.

The way it's setup is the equivalent of him having a headset setup where he can receive calls from anyone watching the stream on his friendslist. It's just bad oversight.
 
Soka said:
So one game was compromised due to the Hunter's Mark thing. Then there was the Mom thing and Leeroy. How many more cases are needed to convince you that something was fucked, even if it wasn't planned by Rdu or whoever? The bottom line is the tournament scene in HS needs to be rebuilt/improved.
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Of course it sucked, but he had no control over it. You could see for brief moment he even typed back to someone to stop messaging him.

The mom messages are two separate people and the second one is referencing the first, what's the point in that if it's code? Second proof, "I believe in you honey"... so now it's not mom that's the code, but "mom-ish" messages? This is hardly conclusive evidence.
 
depths20XX said:
It's still on the organizers to setup the tournament in a way where this can't happen. You can speculate about him cheating but it's just speculation.

The way it's setup is the equivalent of him having a headset setup where he can receive calls from anyone watching the stream on his friendslist. It's just bad oversight.
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That doesn't matter though. It's still an unfair advantage. Players in lol were fined for looking back at the big screen during a pause. It was really riot's fault for the setup, but the player still participated.

It's not like rdu was chatting with the friends and asking for information, but he was a participant.
 
JesseZao said:
That doesn't matter though. It's still an unfair advantage. Players in lol were fined for looking back at the big screen during a pause. It was really riot's fault for the setup, but the player still participated.

It's not like rdu was chatting with the friends and asking for information, but he was a participant.
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So what do you think should have happened? A replay of the match where they make sure no one messages him even though that's something outside of his control?

Blizz needs a feature to block all outside communication if they want this to be a tournament game.

Even Amaz thinks this isn't rdu's fault.
 
depths20XX said:
So what do you think should have happened? A replay of the match where they make sure no one messages him even though that's something outside of his control?

Blizz needs a feature to block all outside communication if they want this to be a tournament game.

Even Amaz thinks this isn't rdu's fault.
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The organizers had him remove everyone from his friends list after that game so he COULDN'T receive any messages. So yes, replay the game.
 
multivac said:
The organizers had him remove everyone from his friends list after that game so he COULDN'T receive any messages. So yes, replay the game.
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What if they send him a friend request with a fake account with the name "Mom"?

Seriously. Only giving a new account with all cards unlocked is a viable option with the current incarnation of HS.
 
Soka said:
What if they send him a friend request with a fake account with the name "Mom"?

Seriously. Only giving a new account with all cards unlocked is a viable option with the current incarnation of HS.
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Just because something might occur in the second game doesn't mean you shouldn't replay an obviously compromised game.
 
multivac said:
The organizers had him remove everyone from his friends list after that game so he COULDN'T receive any messages. So yes, replay the game.
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Normally I would agree with replaying a game when something strange like this happens but in such an RNG game like this I don't think it's fair. It's on the TO's for not setting shit up right.
 
depths20XX said:
So what do you think should have happened? A replay of the match where they make sure no one messages him even though that's something outside of his control?

Blizz needs a feature to block all outside communication if they want this to be a tournament game.

Even Amaz thinks this isn't rdu's fault.
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Replay game.

Really though, it shouldn't have taken this far into the tournament to have friends purged. It looked unprofessional from even the seemingly innocuous messages in other games. If they would've played on pc, they could've implemented an overlay to block the left side of the screen. The toasts can be disabled already in the client.

Of course amaz will stay out of it.
 
We'll either have more evidence tomorrow once reddit has dug through the VODs or nothing else surfaces so the mom stuff could be seen as a very unlikely coincidence. Right now it's not enough to say for certain whether RDU had this planned or not.

That aside the second game, or rather the full series should have been remade immediately. The admins' reasoning is utter bullshit as there were still plays to be made, e.g. RDU alexing himself in fear of a flare to mention just one possibility. They wanted to finish the tournament on schedule at the cost of its integrity and will rightfully keep catching flak for it.
 
Fragamemnon said:
The whole thing is an unreal witch hunt . Can we at least work from Occam's Razor here, that people given the chance to act stupid on the internet (hi mom!) will act stupid on the internet.
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I agree. People are looking for everything to try to prove RDU guilty. I feel really bad for him. Everyone there, even his opponent, is saying he wasn't cheating.

RDU's reputation is unfortunately ruined by this.

Attention should be on DreamHack and how they decided to handle the situation.

Telling him Amaz had Hunters Mark did matter though and that game should have been stopped right there to start over. But people saying, "Hello mom," is some secret code for Leeroy sounds like ridiculous conspiracy theory to me.
 
frequency said:
Telling him Amaz had Hunters Mark did matter though and that game should have been stopped right there to start over. But people saying, "Hello mom," is some secret code for Leeroy sounds like ridiculous conspiracy theory to me.
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It happened on more than one occasion, by more than one "friend" immediately after Leeroy was drawn, that's some decent circumstantial evidence
 
I don't know how we feel about linking to reddit but...

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/28bdt3/dreamhack_finals_controversy_megathread/

Look at some of the "original text" links.

I really don't think RDU was cheating. Also he was being messaged random things at random times throughout the entire tournament wasn't he? So what of all the times he was messaged that didn't coincidentally match up with some draw or whatever? There is some confirmation bias happening here to prove RDU guilty I think.

I think attention should be on DreamHack and why they allowed friends messaging people in the middle of games for the entire tournament. And the way they handled the situation after the Hunters Mark incident. They didn't even tell Amaz about it!
 
So basically, if I understand it right, the main thing was when someone told him about flare and hunter's mark in the hunter's hand after RDU already had the match pretty much already won. And that there was no way at all for RDU to lose?

If that is the case, I really don't think it would be fair for RDU to have to replay an already won match.
 
Officerrob said:
It happened on more than one occasion, by more than one "friend" immediately after Leeroy was drawn, that's some decent circumstantial evidence
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Unless I'm overlooking something, there were two total instances: One with the "believe in you honey" and then the "hi mom" / "hi poep's mom" bit. The latter happened during a Leeroy draw and the former happened a full turn after a Leeroy draw and after a different card entirely (Argent Commander) was played.

The "has bow and hunter's mark" one is a bit more questionable but the mom ones are grasping at straws.

frequency said:
I think attention should be on DreamHack and why they allowed friends messaging people in the middle of games for the entire tournament.
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To be fair, there's no way to disallow friends messaging short of deleting their friend's list or using provided accounts. Why they didn't do the latter is another matter entirely but we'll probably see that being the case for future events. Maybe.

Mobius and pet octopus said:
So basically, if I understand it right, the main thing was when someone told him about flare and hunter's mark in the hunter's hand after RDU already had the match pretty much already won. And that there was no way at all for RDU to lose?

If that is the case, I really don't think it would be fair for RDU to have to replay an already won match.
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The "has bow and hunter's mark" came around an Alexstraza turn. While it's highly relevant to know there's no Flare, this is also the best chance to win anyway so it's the correct play assuming no information.
 
Mobius and pet octopus said:
So basically, if I understand it right, the main thing was when someone told him about flare and hunter's mark in the hunter's hand after RDU already had the match pretty much already won. And that there was no way at all for RDU to lose?

If that is the case, I really don't think it would be fair for RDU to have to replay an already won match.
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He had 1 life and a Ice Block. Amaz had been holding onto a card the entire game. It was Hunters Mark but could have been Flare.

RDU had an Alexstraza in hand. He has 2 choices here. Play it on Amaz and win next turn, or play it on self to stay alive if that card in Amaz's hand is Flare.

He played it on Amaz.

It should be noted that he played it like almost immediately when he got the message. So I think he would have made that play anyway.
And even if he didn't and played it on himself for the life gain instead, he had a big advantage. All Amaz had was the Mark in his hand and a bow equipped. No more cards in hand and no minions in play.
RDU would have had a Azure Drake and Alex on board. He also had 2 Fireballs in his hand, a Pyroblast, 2 Frostbolts, and a Ice Lance. He wasn't going to lose either way.

Haly said:
The problem is not whether RDU used the information to make a game winning decision. It's because the game was clearly compromised and it still counted.

In any competitive game worth its salt, any such outside interference is handled with a rematch, a loss or disqualification.
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But this is what I agree with. Just for the integrity of the tournament and to stop all rumours and stuff, they had to start over. It would have been unfair to RDU if he lost in the rematch but that would be his friend's fault. Now we have RDU's name being dragged through the mud because DreamHack mishandled the situation I think.
 
imo the big difference that the message made was how it affected rdu's play. because rdu knows that amaz has no flare, he can afford to alex amaz instead of himself. in other words he doesn't have to play it safe.
 
The problem is not whether RDU used the information to make a game winning decision. It's because the game was clearly compromised and it still counted.

In any competitive game worth its salt, any such outside interference is handled with a rematch, a loss or disqualification.
 
Haly said:
The problem is not whether RDU used the information to make a game winning decision. It's because the game was clearly compromised and it still counted.

In any competitive game worth its salt, any such outside interference is handled with a rematch, a loss or disqualification.
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Yeah. Regardless of it mattering or not, it most likely should have had some kind of action taken. The only "nah, it's fine count it" route to make sense would be if all parties agreed to it (and, even then, I'm hesitant to say that honestly). Seeing as Amaz didn't even know about this at all makes it a bit worse.

But I'd only apply it to the Hunter's Mark situation. The "mom == Leeroy!" is reaching a bit in regards to "should mean rematch." Though it still shouldn't be allowed at all and something should be done in regards to chat either by the tournament organizers (e.g., providing accounts for use) or by Blizzard (e.g., DND mode, Tournament client).
 
scy said:
Yeah. Regardless of it mattering or not, it most likely should have had some kind of action taken. The only "nah, it's fine count it" route to make sense would be if all parties agreed to it (and, even then, I'm hesitant to say that honestly). Seeing as Amaz didn't even know about this at all makes it a bit worse.
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I wouldn't agree with it counting even if everyone consented to it. This is just not done in high-profile competitive event. It's bush league tournament organization.

(e.g., providing accounts for use) or by Blizzard (e.g., DND mode, Tournament client).
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Blizzard is dropping the ball in a lot of ways, there are so many basic QOL improvements the game should be getting by now that doesn't even require new cards or whatever. And now this DND Mode thing just shot to the top of the list.
 
Haly said:
I wouldn't agree with it counting even if everyone consented to it. This is just not done in high-profile competitive event. It's bush league tournament organization.
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Basically. The rules should be something across the board and not circumvented just because. Was just saying the only way I'd be "okay" with it is if everyone consented and, in this case, Amaz had no idea until well after the fact which makes it even more of a giant clusterfuck.

Blizzard is dropping the ball in a lot of ways, there are so many basic QOL improvements the game should be getting by now that doesn't even require new cards or whatever. And now this DND Mode thing just shot to the top of the list.
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Yeah. I'm not sure how it didn't go up faster once all the smaller tournaments broke out and the general popularity of the game (both in players and in viewers ala Twitch) but oh well.
 
I dont think RDU was cheating, Nobody is dumb enough to cheat when everyone are watching his screen.
Game should have been stopped though when he was told about hunter mark.
 
This is the deck I ran into the other day, no clue what was going on.

http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/459166-backspace-rogue#1
http://youtu.be/atsLv-ZBt6E

Meta sniping in this game is very hard because of lack of interaction so this guy gets mad props from me. This is the real deal. Deckbuilding is not deciding whether to run Faerie Dragons or Amani Berserkers, but how well you can analyze popular decks and create something really novel that is also effective, instead of being different for the sake of being different.

This is what I enjoy most about card games.
 
LumpOfCole said:
You are not kidding. What a strong deck.
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it's looks like every other shaman deck, with the old leeroy combo, a yeti and two golems, minus one lightning storm and no manatide totem. And two lava bursts. I take it back, this could be almost considered innovative for shamans
 
Tarazet said:
So.. I've been playing with exactly this deck, down to the letter. Best deck I've ever played.. brilliant in any matchup except for possibly facesmash Hunter if you get the wrong draw. I've dismantled Control Warriors, wall of taunt Priests, tempo Rogues, and Aquarium Warlocks so far.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/57068-links-season-3-shambo-whambo
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I played that deck at the start of the season. It's really good. The rockbiter/windfury/doomhamer/etc burst combos are filthy and pop up all the time. I have a 75% win rate with that deck, which is the best of any of my decks.

I stopped playing it because I got grommash and I've always wanted to play control warrior, which is what I'm doing now.
 
I hate shaman so much. I don't like playing it, and I hate playing against it. Every shaman always gets perfect rng against me, and they have way too much cheap removal. It feels like my hardest match up whether I'm playing zoo or druid. But seriously, screw lightning storm and feral spirits.
 
johnsmith said:
I hate shaman so much. I don't like playing it, and I hate playing against it. Every shaman always gets perfect rng against me, and they have way too much cheap removal. It feels like my hardest match up whether I'm playing zoo or druid. But seriously, screw lightning storm and feral spirits.
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hm, I've had the opposite experience. You have to draw into your lightning bolts and rockbiters, totems are mostly useless, unbound elementals are prime targets for soulfire and buffed one-drops, stormforge axe is not that great versus 3+ health taunts, you don't really have any early minions to contest board control (wolves are merely alright in this match imo) and you absolutely need lightning storm to win. Zoo and miracle are the reason why I stopped playing shaman until Naxx comes out

then again, all my decks struggle against zoo and miracle
 
I had literally the dream warlock zoo. Double fire imps, double young priestess, with the coin. and I got destroyed thanks to lightning bolt. That spell is way too powerful. As soon as I regain board control they drop another one.

I need a hard counter to shaman, because they are fucking destroying me right now and it's driving me nuts. I remember midrange hunter did really well against them, and I'm not seeing any miracle around rank 7. Might be time to remake that.
 
johnsmith said:
I had literally the dream warlock zoo. Double fire imps, double young priestess, with the coin. and I got destroyed thanks to lightning bolt. That spell is way too powerful. As soon as I regain board control they drop another one.

I need a hard counter to shaman, because they are fucking destroying me right now and it's driving me nuts.
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Play Face Hunter or Freeze & Burn Mage.

I often struggle against Zoo when I play Shaman, but that's because my Lightning Storms go on strike. Seriously, they might as well not be in the deck.
 
johnsmith said:
I had literally the dream warlock zoo. Double fire imps, double young priestess, with the coin. and I got destroyed thanks to lightning bolt. That spell is way too powerful. As soon as I regain board control they drop another one.

I need a hard counter to shaman, because they are fucking destroying me right now and it's driving me nuts. I remember midrange hunter did really well against them, and I'm not seeing any miracle around rank 7. Might be time to remake that.
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Smh at the over extend vs shaman.
 
Ashodin said:
Smh at the over extend vs shaman.
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What's overextending? A zoo deck isn't going to win with leaving 2 or 3 minions on the board. They have more spells and bigger creatures. They'll pick you off little by little if you only leave 2 or 3 things on the board. Plus you can't rely on 3 health creatures like you can vs other common aoe's because they'll always get a spellpower totem or get lucky with the rng rolls.


Anyway, hit rank 5. Got 2 weeks to if I decide I want to grind legend again for no reason.
 
I'm playing Gaara's nightmare hunter card for card and I'm 10-1. It's so weird how good this deck is at finding answers to big minions/taunts.
 
someone please explain to me why, when I play against Zoo, they always get a turn 1 flame imp coin flame imp turn two priestess void walker turn 3 knife juggler shield bearer turn 4 defender of argus soul fire opening? And I mean every single damn time? Yet when I try the deck I never get any of this
 
Zoo doesn't play blood imp so it's just your imagination. That was an easy one. Next question.
 
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