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[Minsc]

Saw an interesting enough thread at bnet forums, about people who strategize around the mulligan process. Specifically it was mentioned that when playing a Warlock, you can figure if they mulligan 3/4s or all of their hand they are handlock, and if they mulligan just 1 or 2 cards they are zoolock. Any other strategies? Or just a waste of time? I see people saying that occasionally a "waiter" or what have you, will come across another person who waits to see how many cards their opponent mulligans before choosing their own mulligans, and they both just sit there for 2 mins til the last second before the game starts lol.

Sounds pretty funny, but now that I think about it, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to submit my mulligan when playing handlock, I do find more often than not I mulligan over half my hand...

 

[Anustart]

That feel when you have half a million multi target spells but get none for 6 turns while they're playing low cost shit.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Saw an interesting enough thread at bnet forums, about people who strategize around the mulligan process. Specifically it was mentioned that when playing a Warlock, you can figure if they mulligan 3/4s or all of their hand they are handlock, and if they mulligan just 1 or 2 cards they are zoolock. Any other strategies? Or just a waste of time? I see people saying that occasionally a "waiter" or what have you, will come across another person who waits to see how many cards their opponent mulligans before choosing their own mulligans, and they both just sit there for 2 mins til the last second before the game starts lol.

Sounds pretty funny, but now that I think about it, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to submit my mulligan when playing handlock, I do find more often than not I mulligan over half my hand...

This makes a ton of sense for Handlock vs Zoolock. Not sure how else it'd apply, although if I see my opponent toss their entire hand I usually take that as a sign they may have a very slow start... Meaning I can mulligan for something more aggressive if I so feel.

 

[Haly]

Any other strategies?

You can take this one step further by factoring in your own class. If you're playing Rogue, and the Warlock mulligans their entire hand, chances are they're a Handlock digging for Giants and other fatties to throw in your face, or a Defender of Argus to get Taunt going. Ramp Druids will also mulligan aggressively against any kind of Aggro because they don't want to be stuck with 0 playable cards until turn 4. They're going to be digging for Wrath and Claw.

Another noticeable mulligan pattern is the difference between Tempo Rogue and Miracle Rogue. It's not really relevant now because Tempo Rogue is dead, but if it ever comes back you can rely on this tell. Miracle Rogue can get really horrible hands, sometimes, so if you see a Rogue snap-mulliganing their entire fucking hand, they probably just drew Auctioneer/Preparation/Shadowstep/Fan of Knives. So that's Miracle right there. Tempo Rogue's draws aren't nearly as bad.

And one more. If you're playing some kind of Aggro against Rogue, and they mulligan their entire hand, they were probably digging for Backstabs/Deadly Poisons/Blade Flurries, so you can overextend a little bit. If they keep 1 or 2 cards, that's Backstab/Deadly Poison/SI:7 Agent, so you'll want to play more conservatively.

This is, I imagine, only a very slight advantage (because sometimes it works against you) in the grand scheme of things but if you're looking to try your absolute hardest it's something to think about.

 

[Ashodin]

Saw an interesting enough thread at bnet forums, about people who strategize around the mulligan process. Specifically it was mentioned that when playing a Warlock, you can figure if they mulligan 3/4s or all of their hand they are handlock, and if they mulligan just 1 or 2 cards they are zoolock. Any other strategies? Or just a waste of time? I see people saying that occasionally a "waiter" or what have you, will come across another person who waits to see how many cards their opponent mulligans before choosing their own mulligans, and they both just sit there for 2 mins til the last second before the game starts lol.

Sounds pretty funny, but now that I think about it, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to submit my mulligan when playing handlock, I do find more often than not I mulligan over half my hand...

I'm mpretty sure Scy swears by this

 

[partyphone]

Any bit of information you can glean from your opponent is helpful. A slow deck is looking for some very specific cards at the beginning of the game(like mountain giant/twilight drake for handlock) so they're much more likely to mulligan a lot of cards than an aggressive deck which likely has a lot of 1 and 2 drops.

You also want to pay attention to where in their hand they play a card from or if they hover a card around and then don't play it.

 

[ViviOggi]

I can't handle all this value

One turn after I played the stolen Blood Knight the Warlock simply kept hammering the end turn button for like four turns straight and then eventually Alt+F4'd once I dropped Rag. Didn't accept my friend request either

 

[JesseZao]

You also want to pay attention to where in their hand they play a card from or if they hover a card around and then don't play it.

That's why you must avoid touching your cards unless you intend to play them right then. No reason to give the opponent free information. Unless you're streaming or teaching someone how to play, there's not much reason to hover over your cards.

 

[RumblingRosco]

That's why you must avoid touching your cards unless you intend to play them right then. No reason to give the opponent free information. Unless you're streaming or teaching someone how to play, there's not much reason to hover over your cards.

If I have a Rockbiter but no direct damage spell, I will often hover the Rockbiter on my opponent's minion to bluff as to whether I am considering casting Hex or not. No idea if it helps, but I like to think it makes them hesitate a bit before they play something that would get rocked by Earth Shock, Hex, etc.

Actually wait not Rockbiter... That's friendly only. I am forgetting what card I do this with now.

Ah, I am thinking of Windfury.

 

[JesseZao]

If I have a Rockbiter but no direct damage spell, I will often hover the Rockbiter on my opponent's minion to bluff as to whether I am considering casting Hex or not. No idea if it helps, but I like to think it makes them hesitate a bit before they play something that would get rocked by Earth Shock, Hex, etc.

Actually wait not Rockbiter... That's friendly only. I am forgetting what card I do this with now.

Ah, I am thinking of Windfury.

Yeah, I will sometimes try to do some mindgames bluffing, but that's all really.

Like "plot out a turn" starting with a bluff removal spell from hand and show minion trades. Then do something completely different.

 

[Haly]

This is a very deep rabbit hole to go down, and eventually you'll have to ask yourself "is the mental effort I'm expending on these seemingly random bluffs helping me?", because your concentration is actually a finite resources. Bluffs, especially, are risky because it assumes a certain level of competence from your opponent. If your opponent is just playing autopilot, while you're trying to do some sicknasty mind games to him, it's just going to backfire on you when you mess up a play because you were overthinking it.

An extreme example of this is the Miracle mechanic from MTG.

"Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."

Basically Topdeck: The Mechanic.

Now, the rules stipulate that you must play a Miracle card for its Miracle cost the moment you draw it. Once you put it into your hand, it's done, you can't activate Miracle anymore. This eventually led to every single player pausing on the first draw of their turn, as though considering whether to activate Miracle, before putting it into his hand.

As you can imagine, it became very silly very fast and almost immediately lost all meaning.

 

[RumblingRosco]

This is a very deep rabbit hole to go down, and eventually you'll have to ask yourself "is the mental effort I'm expending on these seemingly random bluffs helping me?", because your concentration is actually finite resources. Bluffs, especially, are risky because it assumes a certain level of competence from your opponent. If your opponent is just playing autopilot, while you're trying to do some sicknasty mind games to him, it's just going to backfire on you when you mess up a play because you were overthinking it.

Personally, I tend to only do this when my options are limited enough anyway that I have the mental fuel to burn on hovering my mouse. If I have a full hand anyway then I probably actually do have a card I could use on an opposing minion (Hex, Lightning Bolt, whatever) so in such a situation my above bluff would fail/backfire.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Another control warrior dies to the hands of Freeze Mage due to their own Baron Geddon. Why do people still play that card, lol.

 

[frequency]

I touch cards all the time just to look at the art and stuff. It's nice to know that a few people who are trying too hard are reading into it so much.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

This makes a ton of sense for Handlock vs Zoolock. Not sure how else it'd apply, although if I see my opponent toss their entire hand I usually take that as a sign they may have a very slow start... Meaning I can mulligan for something more aggressive if I so feel.

Works for pally too since their aggro has a lot of 1 drops.

 

[Professor Lich]

Just curious, when you're win streaking, can you get more than one extra star if you keep on wining?

Edit: To go with that, can Nat Pagle overdraw?

 

[Raxus]

Just curious, when you're win streaking, can you get more than one extra star if you keep on wining?

Nope.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Pagle can cause fatigue damage.

 

[scy]

As you can imagine, it became very silly very fast and almost immediately lost all meaning.

Ah yes, the 30-60s draw step phase.

 

[Professor Lich]

Pagle can cause fatigue damage.

Nope.

Hmm, alright. Thanks guys.

 

[Minsc]

Nothing more fun than coming off a losing streak by getting 2 armorsmiths out in the first two turns against a Paladin to take turns trading with all their 1/1 creatures, followed by a frothing berserker turn 3 (and subsequent minions that take priority over the smiths). Hello 60+ life (ok so a few shield blocks and hero powers in that total too) as he has to let the armorsmiths live to like turn 5 or 6.

 

[Raxus]

One of my favorite armor smith plays was when I was facing a miracle rouge who cloaked a leeroy and gadgetzan and I attacked with the whelps and whirlwinded twice putting me out of kill range. Too much armor!

 

[JesseZao]

This is a very deep rabbit hole to go down, and eventually you'll have to ask yourself "is the mental effort I'm expending on these seemingly random bluffs helping me?", because your concentration is actually a finite resources. Bluffs, especially, are risky because it assumes a certain level of competence from your opponent. If your opponent is just playing autopilot, while you're trying to do some sicknasty mind games to him, it's just going to backfire on you when you mess up a play because you were overthinking it.

An extreme example of this is the Miracle mechanic from MTG.



Basically Topdeck: The Mechanic.

Now, the rules stipulate that you must play a Miracle card for its Miracle cost the moment you draw it. Once you put it into your hand, it's done, you can't activate Miracle anymore. This eventually led to every single player pausing on the first draw of their turn, as though considering whether to activate Miracle, before putting it into his hand.

As you can imagine, it became very silly very fast and almost immediately lost all meaning.

Yeah, I don't really bother bluffing that often, just when I'm in a boring matchup and have nothing else to think about. Normally I just avoid touching my cards.

 

[ZZMitch]

I touch cards all the time just to look at the art and stuff. It's nice to know that a few people who are trying too hard are reading into it so much.

haha yeah me too

 

[Aylinato]

haha yeah me too

Me three, I'm also good at playing mind games.


Unfortunately I'm an awful deck builder, I'm good at playing just never deck building

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

After naxx:

Voidcaller plus sacrificial pact to get a free doomguard turn 3 (or really any turn). Kill something with voidcaller, sac it, doomguard or pitlord, boom. Such a huge tempo move imo.

 

[Violet_0]

Reynad bringing the dark age of Zoo Druid upon us
http://ihearthu.com/dreamhack-summer-group-stage-decklists/

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Reynad bringing the dark age of Zoo Druid upon us
http://ihearthu.com/dreamhack-summer-group-stage-decklists/

Looks like a midrange druid with wild growth, which is not uncommon.

 

[johnsmith]

It's the same as kolento's charge deck except

-2 sunfury protector
- Cenarius

+faerie dragon
+ the black knight
+cairne

Reasonable changes, those 3 cards are definitely underperformers in the deck from my experience.

 

[Violet_0]

Looks like a midrange druid with wild growth, which is not uncommon.

thatsthejoke.jpg -.-

 

[Ashodin]

surprise surprise, zero paladins

 

[JesseZao]

Bout time for a shaman meta with druids everywhere.

 

[shadowstar]

That feel when a zoolock drops a knife juggler when you're about to do your Leeroy combo to win and you can't remove it.

And then RNJesus blesses you!

 

[Vio-Lence]

thatsthejoke.jpg -.-

all decks are reynad decks

 

[IceMarker]

Hunter and Rogue make me sick.

 

[Canon]

Fucking cheap as shit legendary cards. Was playing a guy who clearly sucked and then he played death wing, and I had nothing to destroy it. Sick of it.

 

[Haly]

Well, first, calm down. If you're new, and you don't have access to that many cards, you should build one of these budget decks and work your way up to Zoolock.

Second, Deathwing is a bad card. The fact that you lost to it says more about you than your opponent. It is Is a very late game card. It sacrifices all your hand and board presence in order to be played. And if it gets blown up by Hex/Polymorph/Assassinate/Execute/Deadly Shot/Mind Control/Shadow Word: Death, then its controller pretty much lose the game right there. For these reasons, no one ever seriously plays Deathwing, it's pure desperation.

If they're playing Deathwing, then that means they are:

1) A new player, like you
2) Deathwing was the first legendary they ever opened, so they just threw into a deck without regards for how awful it is.

Focus less on the flashiness of the Legendaries, because they can be misleading, and look at how you can improve your own game so you don't get caught off guard by plays like that.

I also suggest watching some of the streamers like Trump to learn more about the game, because it'll teach you the fundamentals faster than just running blindly into Casual/Ranked. Once you have the basics of the game down (and I'm not talking about the controls, but concepts like "tempo", "card advantage", etc), you'll realize complaining about Deathwing is silly.

 

[johnsmith]

Watching Kolento's stream and he's like 1-5 with his druid deck. I'm starting to wonder if maybe this deck really isn't that good or we're just unlucky. In almost every game he doesn't get close to combo range. Also gets destroyed by priests (it's been the same in my experience) even though almost every minion has 4 attack.

 

[Canon]

I was taking my time because he wasn't much of a challenge, I had no good draws to get rid of it at that point. He had no minions on the board but I had a ton. Honestly I had never seen Deathwing before so I hadn't thought about it.

I haven't spent any money on the game nor do I have any legendary cards. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[IceMarker]

I'm on a long ass losing streak against Hunters, Rogues, and Zoolocks. Fan-fucking-tastic. I don't give a fuck nerf them all.

EDIT: Oh look a Druid, but then I draw nothing but spells until turn 4.
EDIT2: Then a Mage that finishes me by turn 8! What a shitty night of Hearthstone.
EDIT3: Another Mage, another loss. Matchmaking sucks in Hearthstone.

 

[johnsmith]

I was taking my time because he wasn't much of a challenge, I had no good draws to get rid of it at that point. He had no minions on the board but I had a ton. Honestly I had never seen Deathwing before so I hadn't thought about it.

I haven't spent any money on the game nor do I have any legendary cards. Thanks for the advice though.

So you played poorly. Why would you take your time/underestimate an opponent when you have no idea what he has in his hand? Poor plays get punished. I got destroyed by Deathwing too in my last arena. I had huge board control, full health, and to save all my minions for lethal the next turn I wasted a polymorph on a frost elemental instead of trading. It cost me the game when he played Deathwing the next turn. Had I saved my polymorph I would have easily recovered from the wipe as I had card advantage. Instead I ended up losing because it took me too long to take down his Deathwing. I lost because i screwed up.

 

[Haly]

Well, no one expects Deathwing. It's just not something you mentally prepare for. Sometimes that's enough to lose a game.

The point is, it's not that big a deal, and not worth getting really upset about. Deathwing losses are fringe occurrences and should be treated as such. It would make much more sense to get upset about Leeroy or Cairne or something.

 

[JesseZao]

Oh, man; the value.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7dMWIoq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UdQgIkr.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/g8Dd8su.jpg[/IMG]

Not pictured in decklist: Frost Elemental, Kidnapper (lol...and never used once), Ravenholdt Assassin.

It just curved out so nicely each match. Tempo gain with SI or evis into Injured/Yeti/SI play or spiteful/ogre/ravenholdt

"twas nuts

To top it all off, the 12th win was vs. a hunter and the second pack had King Krush in it. Win.

 

[Tarazet]

I was taking my time because he wasn't much of a challenge, I had no good draws to get rid of it at that point. He had no minions on the board but I had a ton. Honestly I had never seen Deathwing before so I hadn't thought about it.

I haven't spent any money on the game nor do I have any legendary cards. Thanks for the advice though.

I lost to Deathwing 3 times in a row.. in arena. Because fuck arena.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Fucking cheap as shit legendary cards. Was playing a guy who clearly sucked and then he played death wing, and I had nothing to destroy it. Sick of it.

PJSalt

 

[IceMarker]

Funny you all are discussing Deathwing as I just barely beat a guy who dropped him on turn 14, thus ending my losing streak. FINALLY

 

[Canon]

Well it's nice to know I'm not alone in sucking (I do think it's bad luck more than anything else).

 

[ViviOggi]

Well it's nice to know I'm not alone in sucking (I do think it's bad luck more than anything else).

You'll get over that like we all have.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Am I the only one that thinks Mind Control Tech should be 4 mana? Just to put it in line with Windfury. I know it's "bad" when played vanilla, but a 3/3 for 3 is still playable. But when it uses its ability, even a 1/1 makes it great value. This isn't mentioning when it steals a monster minion!

 

[FormallyFamicom]

Lost to a Hunter that sprung Deathwing on me a few days ago in Casuals. I had no regrets.