There a VOD of his speech yet?
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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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I trust Reynad's opinions on cheating.
Thanks. I'm pulling up his stream now. I feel like I recognize him from somewhere... Maybe a tournament at some point.
Could you link his twitch channel please?
Yes.
Links:
Amaz - http://www.twitch.tv/amazhs
Trump - http://www.twitch.tv/trumpsc
Hafu - http://www.twitch.tv/itshafu
Reynad - http://www.twitch.tv/reynad27
Yep, he's not an annoying kid like the rest of the streamers are too! Only streamer I can tolerate really.
Reynad leading the witch hunt is humorous to me.
Avinexus
Member
He was on the Fight Night stuff.
I mean...he is under attack because he cheated. No denying he received card info from messages during the games, whether he actually set that whole thing up is the question.
Minsc
Gold Member
Maybe Reynad paid off one of the guys on RDU's friend list to do it (perhaps he had money on Amaz), it's the perfect strategy, take out your opposition by making it look like they cheated.
I mean if people on RDU's friendlist are "cheating for him," no one is ever going to suspect the other guy orchestrated it! Great way to pass the blame and get everyone hating the other person.
Yeah, well, how do we know RDU didn't pay Reynad to accuse him of cheating? How do we know RDU didn't pay you to cloud the issue further?
Follow the money.
Professor Lich
Member
All this controversy means HeathStone is a real eSport now, right?
Fragamemnon
Member
Late to the streamer talk, but dog started streaming last week and he's great. He has an entire climb from start of account to top 16 Legend on EU recorded on his account on twitch (he was already top 10 NA). He's explains his plays and thought process, after watching him my Miracle Rogue play went through the roof.
twitch.tv/hsdogdog
twitch.tv/hsdogdog
Most real esports have less drama than this, this is just embarrassing for the entire scene.
It's a real card game now though, definitely. 100% legit card game drama.
Professor Lich
Member
Yeah, I'm just messing around. It's really unfortunate that it happened.
Fragamemnon
Member
Freeze Mage is a heart attack every game. I've also won against board states like that on my last few cards.
The only deck that consistently produces more insane finishes and plays is Priest due to the insanity of Thoughtsteal.
The only deck that consistently produces more insane finishes and plays is Priest due to the insanity of Thoughtsteal.
That Druid must be the saltiest person on earth
His own fault he lost, though. Missed lethal twice at least.
Professor Lich
Member
Yeah, can't believe he didn't just silence Rag and hit for eight damage. I guess not to many people think about it.
So "when naxx ships" was mentioned by a blue. People seem to think it's a subtle hint at a july 15th release date since it's a large gummy bear and july 15th is national gummy day.
https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/480824066664706048
If true, #icalledit
https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/480824066664706048
If true, #icalledit
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Seems like a reasonable guess.
Just started this game up at the end of last week. Really enjoying it so far. I haven't really settled on a class but I'd have to say i'm having fun with Warlock, Rogue and Shaman. Hit 18/17 tonight so I could get the card backing for this month. What are you guy's thoughts on: http://arenavalue.com/
I've read that Arena is good for leaning cards and gaining resources instead of just buying a pack with gold. I think I enjoy ranked/casual more than Arena so far but that's mostly because i've just been getting rekt in arena.
I've read that Arena is good for leaning cards and gaining resources instead of just buying a pack with gold. I think I enjoy ranked/casual more than Arena so far but that's mostly because i've just been getting rekt in arena.
While there's nothing wrong with sticking with a class, you'll find it's more fun to play a variety of classes, unless you specifically enjoy playing one class' deck. Don't pigeonhole yourself with the idea of a "main" class, it doesn't make much sense for card games.
Good site for beginners and even the moderately experienced.
The process is usually something like:
Learn cards in Casual/Bot matches -> Learn Arena -> Use Arena to get cards faster -> Grind Ladder
There are lots of good articles here to learn about Arena theory and Hearthstone theory in general: http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/
well, at least we got something I guess
hold on, July 15th is the National Gummy Worm Day
and this https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/480845474648186880
Honestly, they never really worked to begin with.
well, at least we got something I guess
hold on, July 15th is the National Gummy Worm Day
and this https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/480845474648186880
double ?? is being coy
I think something's up.
maybe there's a frost wyrm behind the bear?
This season is the first that I've actually spent a good chunk of time with the game. Took Zoo (because it's cheap) up to rank 5 but couldn't really push through and ping-ponged between 5-7. And I was also getting burned out on the playstyle. So I decided to dust my gold Ysera to make this deck tonight: http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=47305/legend-thar-be-dragons-druid
Finally made it up to rank 4 with what I estimate to be about a 65% win rate. But the best part is that wins are so much more satisfying now. Individual plays and decisions matter (or at least appear to matter) much more. I'm not entirely sure if I have the time to make a legend push this season, but I'd like to get it out of the way if Naxx is coming in the middle of next season.
Finally made it up to rank 4 with what I estimate to be about a 65% win rate. But the best part is that wins are so much more satisfying now. Individual plays and decisions matter (or at least appear to matter) much more. I'm not entirely sure if I have the time to make a legend push this season, but I'd like to get it out of the way if Naxx is coming in the middle of next season.
Fragamemnon
Member
There's a lot of things that jump out to me as being troublesome about that Druid deck, but what it is trying to do is so different from other Druid decks that the card choices seem pretty sensible.
The huge diversity in druid builds is pretty awesome because it shows that the core base and expert set cards are flexible enough to work well in a variety of shells. Decks tend to have 8-10 different cards in them, unlike shaman where decks are like 26-27 of the same cards.
The huge diversity in druid builds is pretty awesome because it shows that the core base and expert set cards are flexible enough to work well in a variety of shells. Decks tend to have 8-10 different cards in them, unlike shaman where decks are like 26-27 of the same cards.
I remembered why posting on Blizzard official forums is always a bad idea.
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/13204360606?page=1#0
Jesus Christ these people.
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/13204360606?page=1#0
Jesus Christ these people.
Minsc
Gold Member
I don't think they're all that bad, and I agree with the post about minion card cycling in general.
A minion that cycles itself is instantly profitable (even in the smallest sense, given it is properly budgeted - a 10 mana 1/1 that draws a card would not be budgeted correctly), and a minion that draws more than 1 card quickly becomes borderline broken, especially as you approach the 3+ range (that's over 10% of your full deck from a single creature that isn't even terribly underpowered stat-wise, and these auctioneers can draw ~50% of your deck if left unchecked for a turn because they are stealthed).
There's a reason why Ancient of Lore is auto-include in all but the fastest druid decks, and if you trimmed it down (got rid of stats for a lower cost, maybe 4 or 5 mana with the same 5 health or 2 draw cards choice), it'd be in every last druid deck peroid.
I particularly found the comment about it losing 1 health (taking a point of damage) to break stealth noteworthy, that didn't occur to me before, and also the idea of putting the drawn card's cost at 1 higher doesn't sound like a bad compromise either and is in theme given the auctioneer wants to raise the price and profit or something.
A minion that cycles itself is instantly profitable (even in the smallest sense, given it is properly budgeted - a 10 mana 1/1 that draws a card would not be budgeted correctly), and a minion that draws more than 1 card quickly becomes borderline broken, especially as you approach the 3+ range (that's over 10% of your full deck from a single creature that isn't even terribly underpowered stat-wise, and these auctioneers can draw ~50% of your deck if left unchecked for a turn because they are stealthed).
There's a reason why Ancient of Lore is auto-include in all but the fastest druid decks, and if you trimmed it down (got rid of stats for a lower cost, maybe 4 or 5 mana with the same 5 health or 2 draw cards choice), it'd be in every last druid deck peroid.
I particularly found the comment about it losing 1 health (taking a point of damage) to break stealth noteworthy, that didn't occur to me before, and also the idea of putting the drawn card's cost at 1 higher doesn't sound like a bad compromise either and is in theme given the auctioneer wants to raise the price and profit or something.
But this is the heart and soul of Combo, the taking of cards budgeted for "fair" play, and then "breaking" them by designing a deck around exploiting abilities. Contrast this with "fair" decks that choose cards depending on how much value they provide, according to the same metrics that the designers used to distribute abilities and stats.
The idea of damage breaking stealth has been passed around. I'm not sure I like it, because it touches too many cards that can't afford need it. Stranglethorn Tiger especially. Stealth is already a very weak mechanic, and this would make it worse. Again, it's one of those things that works perfectly for Miracle Rogue and is shit/mediocre everywhere else.
I like the flavor/design of the change, but I feel it's too drastic. I suggest a modification where the cost increase is a 50% chance, which I feel is more manageable and will give the Miracle some source of frustration as well, rather than putting it all on their opponent.
Maybe some noticeable effect to show that the Rogue is being "gouged".
Minsc
Gold Member
I think simply raising the cost of the drawn card by 1 (to a maximum of 10) would be a great and fair nerf (if they choose auctioneer instead of prep, making prep cost 1 could also be a nice way to nerf auctioneer without actually nerfing auctioneer at all), people running auctioneer are playing it because they can draw more than 1 card with it, and if you draw 5 cards with it, having to spend an extra 5 mana to play them all seems like a decent tradeoff to me.
So my vote is either for:
- Make Preparation cost 1 mana
- Make Auctioneer raise the cost of the drawn card by 1 mana, unless its cost is already 10 or higher.
So my vote is either for:
- Make Preparation cost 1 mana
- Make Auctioneer raise the cost of the drawn card by 1 mana, unless its cost is already 10 or higher.
"2/1 Apothecary Grick. Mind Vision whiffed - no brains found!"
This would make it strictly worse than Innervate. It would be completely ruin the card, and for what reason? Because it works only in one specific deck. Preparation is absolutely trash in all non-Miracle lists. The only thing that redeems it, as a card, is its synergy with Auctioneer. How can a nerf be justified if a card is only worthwhile when played with one other card? This is like the UTH/Buzzard problem, where a single card enables so many others and makes them playable (River Crocolisk, anyone?). Except all Beasts synergize with each other, whereas Preparation is really only worth synergizing with Auctioneer.
Regarding the complaints about "cycling through 5+ cards", well, a lot of those cards are like Preparation. Cards that are not worth playing by themselves suddenly becoming playable because they trigger Auctioneer.
From the POV of the Miracle's opponent, you're watching them play 5 cards and draw 5 more cards, and making the assumption that every card in their deck is valued the same way they are in yours (they're not). But from the POV of the Miracle player, they're actually playing a lot of subpar spells solely for the sake of being able to cycle them. While Rogue cards aren't quite as bad as Warlock ones, they lose their "oomph" very fast. By mid game, most of their cards are just totally weak. The only exceptions are like Eviscerate and Deadly Poison/Backstab, and even the latter requires a two card combo.
When Rogues draw 5+ cards, they're usually not drawing cards like Druid of the Claw, Truesilver Champion, Fire Elemental, Ragnaros, whatever, like everyone else is drawing. They're drawing the class equivalent of Death Coil, Forked Lightning, and Arcane Explosion, generally weak unplayable cards that do some little thing, but add up quick when played in numbers and with board support (Thalnos, Azure Drake).
TL;DR: Miracle Rogue drawing 5+ cards is not comparable to other classes drawing 5+ cards. 5+ cards for Miracle Rogue is more like 3+ cards for other classes.
How would 1 damage to auctioneer per spell hurt strangletorn tigers stealth? (Because the 1 damage would only break it's own stealth)
I assume Minsc meant changing the Stealth mechanic so that it breaks on damage.
Because having a card non-Rogue card that says: "If this card is Stealthed, and it takes damage, it loses Stealth" is laughably narrow and clunky. Or changing Conceal to "Give your minions Stealth until your next turn. That Stealth breaks on damage." Again, clunky. Why have two different kinds of "Stealth"? There's already the whole Mind Control/Shadow Madness ambiguity, this game doesn't need any more.
If Stranglethorn loses Stealth from damage though, Mad Bomber, Arcane Missiles, Knife Juggler, and any kind of sub-Flamestrike AoE just got a lot better in Arena. Hell, Jungle Panther would also get hurt a lot by this change, and not even Hunter lists run that, while they happily run River Crocolisk.
I have some good news for you
BTW, I started playing again after a month or so break. When did they change it so that if you already had 3 quests sitting in your log for a while, clearing one did not give you a new quest?
Minsc
Gold Member
I was commenting about the suggestion in the bnet thread of having it deal a point of damage to itself (aka what you originally proposed, losing a point of health)... it was pointing out dealing damage breaks stealth, so that solution would also combat stealthing it (conceal would give it stealth, then it'd trigger and you'd draw a card and it'd deal a point of damage to itself, breaking the stealth), which I never thought about it.
In hindsight, I agree changing prep isn't really viable, but I'm still for making drawn cards cost 1 more from auctioneer, or turning it 4/5 with the point of damage per drawn card suggestion.
Edit:
The main problem is not drawing 5+ cards (that should be able to be prevented with removal/trading), it's limited ways in dealing with stealthed minions effectively. If not for conceal, auctioneer probably wouldn't be broken for rogue. Dealing with a stealthed 2 health minion would be viable however, 4 health is a bit much with its ability.
Ah, I see. My mistake for jumping down your throat. As you can see, I've given this problem a lot of thought because I'm desperate for Miracle to survive the next balance patch so I get really annoyed when people propose mindless nerfs to kill it.
Agreed, and this was exactly my intent with my proposed health loss mechanic, by making all your RNG damage/AoE potential "counterplay".
Maybe if the card itself was changed to "Goblin Adventurer", it would make more sense flavorwise.
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