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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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P

partyphone

Banned
frequency said:
I know we all like to downplay Legendaries here but certain Legendaries do have really good value and could start turning a game around. You could play around them or come out of it alright if you have enough experience but it's hard to overcome the advantage sometimes, especially as a newer player.
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oh totally. an important part of winning is recognizing what deck archetype you're playing against but that takes experience.

the thing I want to convey to new players is that legendaries aren't overpowered and you shouldn't feel like you need them to win.
 
Z

Zafir

Member
frequency said:
I know we all like to downplay Legendaries here but certain Legendaries do have really good value and could start turning a game around. You could play around them or come out of it alright if you have enough experience but it's hard to overcome the advantage sometimes, especially as a newer player.
Click to expand...

As a newer player, I'd argue it's the rares and epics which are more of an issue than legendaries. You can make some decent decks without legendaries, but not without the good epics and rares.
 
S

scy

Member
frequency said:
I know we all like to downplay Legendaries here but certain Legendaries do have really good value and could start turning a game around. You could play around them or come out of it alright if you have enough experience but it's hard to overcome the advantage sometimes, especially as a newer player.
Click to expand...

The truth is somewhere in between, really. For as much hyperbole there is on both sides (Legendaries don't do that much, Legendaries are instapay2winbsgg), the reality is that many of them are just really vital to strategies to work. They're super efficient at what they do and allow for decks to operate the way they do by providing really card-efficient threat.

The thing that gets overlooked the most, in my opinion, is pretty much that the decks are pretty much relying on those types of plays. Sure, you can go "I was winning but then he played a Tirion and I couldn't come back" but ... that's kind of how many Tirion-based Control strategies play it out. It kind of gets ignored that the game played out that way because of Tirion there. If it was, say, Sunwalker, the avenues of play leading up to that point would be far different. You'd most likely have played a completely different game if they had a different card as their out.

This is also why you can't just shoehorn in a bunch of Legendaries into a deck and think it'll be super awesome because, hey, Legendaries.

Ashodin said:
I am pretty sure this is the most salty/angry thread I read on gaf
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Probably.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Zafir said:
As a newer player, I'd argue it's the rares and epics which are more of an issue than legendaries. You can make some decent decks without legendaries, but not without the good epics and rares.
Click to expand...

This is why, if you're serious about the game, getting 40 packs early on is a good investment. Think of it as buying the game. You'll get enough decent stuff to play one or two decks, plus you'll have enough dust to craft some cards that are good in every deck (Golem, Azure Drake, Argus, that sort of thing). Or, if you don't have the money, play Trump's F2P decks, they are solid. I also think if you're playing and not spending any money, Arena is better value. You also might want to dust EVERYTHING for classes you have no intention of playing.
 
F

frequency

Member
partyphone said:
oh totally. an important part of winning is recognizing what deck archetype you're playing against but that takes experience.

the thing I want to convey to new players is that legendaries aren't overpowered and you shouldn't feel like you need them to win.
Click to expand...

Zafir said:
As a newer player, I'd argue it's the rares and epics which are more of an issue than legendaries. You can make some decent decks without legendaries, but not without the good epics and rares.
Click to expand...

scy said:
The truth is somewhere in between, really. For as much hyperbole there is on both sides (Legendaries don't do that much, Legendaries are instapay2winbsgg), the reality is that many of them are just really vital to strategies to work. They're super efficient at what they do and allow for decks to operate the way they do by providing really card-efficient threat.

The thing that gets overlooked the most, in my opinion, is pretty much that the decks are pretty much relying on those types of plays. Sure, you can go "I was winning but then he played a Tirion and I couldn't come back" but ... that's kind of how many Tirion-based Control strategies play it out. It kind of gets ignored that the game played out that way because of Tirion there. If it was, say, Sunwalker, the avenues of play leading up to that point would be far different. You'd most likely have played a completely different game if they had a different card as their out.

This is also why you can't just shoehorn in a bunch of Legendaries into a deck and think it'll be super awesome because, hey, Legendaries.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree.

I'm not a new player now, but back in beta I complained a lot about Legendary imbalance too. It takes a lot of experience to be able to deal with them consistently with a more limited card collection (I have luckily reached that point already).

You learn that they're not all that powerful (as to win simply by existing) over time when you get better at the game. Though not having certain ones does lock you out of quite a few net decks if you're into that kind of thing (rather than building your own decks).

But I understand the frustration and I usually want to let people vent about it. It's not like we're a particularly positive thread. It's an endless stream of people complaining about things in here.
 
U

Ultrabum

Member
I'm currently play a lot of meracle, but I don't have Leroy. I'm using an arcane golem instead. When I got Van cleef, my win rate went up a few points, I expect the same to happen when I get Leroy and another prep.

Ledgendaries sometimes just streight up win games, double backstab coin van cleef on turn 2 happens like twice a week and usually wins the game.

But, you might not even draw it. Having good cards increases your win %, but isn't a guarenteed win.

It's a card game, everything is probability based.

It's a card game, some cards are better than others, they gotta make money somehow.

The frustrating part is that the matchmaking doesn't take into account the quality of cards, so you get new people making good plays that lose to superior cards and it's really disheartening. Combine that with a $2 entry to the fairest mode, and it's a recipie for salt.
 
K

Kettch

Member
The problem with legendaries is that they don't help much if you're dead already. It's the hated zoo and similar fast decks that keep them in check.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
NEVER BELIEVE IN THE BOMBER
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
6 Mana Wyrms
5 Secrets

So far 4-0

What the fuck is going on
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
edit: nevermind
 
V

Vodh

Junior Member
So what's up with the roofs? Deathwing? Naxxramas nicked them flying by?
m6Kxo1M.png
 
T

The Adder

Banned
The Lamonster said:
I'm giving up on heroics forever. I even used the recommended decks out there.

No luck whatsoever. Just frustration :(
Click to expand...

My priest deck walks all over the first one if you can pilot it.

Also, would anyone with a Zoo deck like to play me in a few? I'm thinking I can actually handle it, but I'd like to test it out and have only fought one in ranked (beat it)
 
C

Cipherr

Member
frequency said:
I know we all like to downplay Legendaries here but certain Legendaries do have really good value and could start turning a game around. You could play around them or come out of it alright if you have enough experience but it's hard to overcome the advantage sometimes, especially as a newer player.
Click to expand...

They are very powerful. Many of them give you an opportunity to turn a game if used right. I used to hate the way druids could force me to use my removal earler in the game with buffed units, then plop down that ironbark 8/8 taunt when Im out of silences sans the 2/1 owl... Now I have a black knight that doesnt just remove the taunt but kills a strong fucking minion outright and puts 4 damage on the board for my side. Man its useful as HELL! Its nothing compared to the people with faceless, BGH, Deathwing, Alex and the like, but its my only playable legendary and I love its utility to pieces. I have so little removal...
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
LAGGING SO MUCH EJ!

Trying to watch!
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
uU5TlRH.jpg


GEEEEEEEEEEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
BUT...

BUT...!

BUT GAF TOLD ME PALADINS WERE OVERPOWERED!
 
S

scy

Member
In Arena? They're fairly good.

In Constructed? Probably one of the worst classes right now.

Edit: I'm now curious to see these "Paladin is da best" posts ;__;
 
S

scy

Member
Soka said:
450 matches? Damn, is that around standard for legendary from rank 5?
Click to expand...

It depends a lot on the meta. Like, with the current heavy Zoo meta you're almost always looking at a good portion of your games being 50-60% winrate which potentially drags the grind out. Even a 60% win rate for Rank 5 -> Legend can potentially be nearly ~150 games depending on how the W/L stack up.

And then you get really lucky and can win streak through a lot of super favorable match-ups and get it done in under 50.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Trump is running a rogue deck very similar to one I made before naxx came out lol

I mean, I made the deck in anticipation of naxx intending to replace a couple cards with nerubian egg and haunted creeper. Looks pretty good so far.

He even chose dark iron dwarf over abusive sergeant, same decision I made.
 
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