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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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zoukka

Member
Fuck that stupid ass Gothik fight. Finally done after 2 hours of "lol didn't get right card! concede!". My god Blizz, how low do you have to sink to make something hard? That wasn't hard, it was fuck all annoying and the amount of rules they have to break to give us a "challenge" is ridiculous. To me, it's them admitting the team on this game are talentless hacks and that this game is casual trash that has skill second behind mass amounts of luck so here's these "fuck rules" matches that make 90% of the decks you would usually use impossible to do and queue fuck loads of conceding because the RNG for these "challenging heroics" is 10 steps above any other game on the market.

Nah man, I haven't resorted to "concede if not a perfect hand" tactics in any of the heroic fights.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Innervating spectral knight versus rogue is very effective, especially if you run argus/sunfury. Can you black knight it?
 

Sandwich

Neo Member
Hehe, beat Heroic Gothic into fatigue. He had lost at that point but he sped up his demise a lot because the AI was programmed to keep drawing cards with hero power each round no matter what. So he took like 8 damage per turn just from that near the end.
 
Been having so much fun with this deck of mine the whole day:

bC3JBTN.jpg


So far I've faced 3 miracle rogues and everyone conceded (maybe it was the turn 5-6 Loatheb that scared them off). It's been 9 wins in a row now and I absolutely love Rivendare! Illidan and Jaraxxus seem like dead cards at the moment so I'm probably gonna remove those and keep experimenting.
 

frequency

Member
None taken sir :)
Whew! Glad I don't have to be the target of your rage (half joke). Also I'm not a sir.

I completely agree. Yet alot of people actually think its a good thing that blizzard made the heroics into a rng filled puzzle.
Personally I would have liked them to actually try to make a strong AI that would make the optimal move every time.
The heroics now are a freaking joke.

I think the heroics should have really just been puzzles. Remove the random draw element and custom decks. Give players a set deck and make it so you draw the same cards in the same order every turn. Then make it an actual puzzle game, which they can do if they know the exact draws and cards available in order.

The AI could have a few different pre-set strategies that it uses so it's not always the same.

People would still find a solution and post it online but whatever. People do that now anyway except you have to instantly concede if you don't draw the exact card you need to handle their starting board or whatever.

RNG + Puzzles are a bad combination.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Anyone been encountering a lot of bots? I hadn't read up on them until now. But apparently the vast majority of legend players are AI controlled? Did someone just make a zoo or druid AI or what?

If these two statements I saw are true:
1. Day 3 of THIS season, there are over 1,000 players in NA Legends.
2. Day 3 of LAST season, there were only 75 or so players in NA Legends.

Seems like bots are becoming a big problem

Edit: The difference in numbers could also be explained by the release of Naxx, however...
 
Man, I'm having a lot of trouble with Heroic Guile. Trying to go mind control priest so I can draw his weapons, and just protect myself with taunts that I double health.

My strategy paid off!
 

Atuin

Member
I have thought from the beginning that people are overlooking reincarnate. Someone will put together a deck that will make people pull their hair out with that card

Well, I've played for only a few hours and I've had some amazing Deathrattle deck tricks with Rivendare, Ancestral spirit and Reincarnate such as:
-make 1 damaged Earth elemental into 3 elementals without the overcharge
-Rivendare+ 2 nerubian eggs + nerubian spiders on field at turn 5
-double Thaddius
-four Cairnes/Cairne jr.s on field

and I'm missing some essential cards such as Leeroy and Deathwing. Not to mention I've never had this much fun in Hearthstone.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Reincarnate is the Naxx card I've been most excited for since they started revealing cards, and I wish I wasn't at work and could try it out right now.

Some of the cooler interactions still don't come until the later wings though. I will turn 10 double Kel'thuzad so many people.
 

scy

Member
Reincarnate is the Naxx card I've been most excited for since they started revealing cards...

I think in general it's one of the more anticipated cards. There's a lot of potential for it and that's even if it only ever gets used as a Shadowstep clone.

I'm just expecting a lot of gimmick decks early.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Man, these wings need to give you a list of banned cards up front.

I guess that takes the humour out of Kel trolling you but I don't want to go through a 5 minute fight only to find out one card is unplayable!

At least give me like, that overflow mana card.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Man, these wings need to give you a list of banned cards up front.

I guess that takes the humour out of Kel trolling you but I don't want to go through a 5 minute fight only to find out one card is unplayable!

At least give me like, that overflow mana card.

Are there more cards than Alex that's banned?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Yeah. Depending on the wing in question, since some of them can clearly be cheesed with the right cards.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Some shaman just made 3 Cairns and 2 bloodhoofs in one turn

I am a priest
 

frequency

Member
While mass dispel works. I beat the match with casting it and then going straight at the Baron's face.
I wonder what's the logic behind banning some cards and not equally strong others...

Honestly I would bet they just didn't think about Mass Dispel. No one used that card.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Done with Heroic. Lasted me a good 2 hours this time, even better than the previous one although Loatheb was more fun.

I case anyone wants help/inspiration with their own decks:
While mass dispel works. I beat the match with casting it and then going straight at the Baron's face.
I wonder what's the logic behind banning some cards and not equally strong others...
He outputs a lot of damage very quickly, so I think they wanted to avoid turn 1-3 cheese but 4+ is fair game. For example, Stampeding Kodo works, and I'm willing to bet Shadow Madness and Cabal Priestess work as well.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
VzhuPmE.png


So im experimenting with this, I dont have Sylvanas, got most of the top end legendaries. Put in two ooze because everyone is playing weapons.

Seems good late game, its like a stall deck as it has alot of answers in it. Still, hard to put any initiative on board, mostly its an "overextend, ill fatigue you" build. Its also good v aggro.

Any thoughts?
 
Chess... is not only solvable, but already has been solved by mathematicians and computer scientists, building off decades of decades of research and experimentation. Do you think modern chess AIs were made in a day? Christ, no. And chess is a lot simpler because there's no variance whatsoever, information is perfect, players get only one single move per turn, and board states can be quantified quickly and easily.

Furthermore, I highly doubt the Hearthstone team, which is still very small, is employing a dedicated AI programmer with experience developing AI for card games. I don't even know if these kinds of specialists exist. For a small development team, creating a challenging puzzle like the current Heroics is far more cost-effective than hiring an expensive specialist to create an advanced AI for Hearthstone, because the game is supposed to be played by humans. Sinking time, money and manpower into creating a sophisticated AI that's not going to generate massive returns makes no sense whatsoever.

There's no excuse for how bad the AI is in this game. An example: I was playing one of the first wing bosses, and I had an Abusive Sargent (2/1) and a Cruel Taskmaster (2/2) on the board. The AI had a 1/1 and a 3/1 minion on the board and he played Shadowflame on the 1/1 killing my Abusive Sargent and then traded his 3/1 for my now 2/1 Cruel Taskmaster. Shadowflame on the 3/1 would've killed both of my minions and left him with a 1/1 to do face damage with, but the AI was too stupid to see that. The AI makes bad trades like this all the time.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
To be frank, I'd rather have them focus on making more cards than upgrading the AI, something I'll forget about entirely within a few weeks, whereas cards will be relevant forever.
 

Bizazedo

Member
To be frank, I'd rather have them focus on making more cards than upgrading the AI, something I'll forget about entirely within a few weeks, whereas cards will be relevant forever.

That and it sounds like there are pretty good AI's in ranked, anyways, so have at it :).
 

Zafir

Member
Makes me sad I don't have earth elementals, or any cairne/sylvanas/leeroy to mess around with reincarnate. :( Think I only have one ancestral spirit too.
 

zoukka

Member
Man even the short one-liners the bosses and Kel spout in Naxx annoy me. How can a writer make silly goofy baddies so fucking awful and soulless...

Blizzard needs to fire all of their writers...
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I only have one Earth/Ancestral at the moment.

If this turns out good I might just craft the others and Sylv/Cairne, since they'll fit in a lot of decks over time.

You could sub Earth Elemental for Sunwalker. Sludge Belcher shenanigans are also funneh.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Al'akir works really well too, especially if they left a FTT on the board, you can get 4 different 5 damage hits with 2 of them being shielded from damage, so you can use it to clear something like Rag if you can't win with the 20 damage by putting both shielded hits to Rag and the other two to the face or minions with less than 5 attack.

There's enough high value deathrattle (and charge minions) to make a whole deck around Reincarnate.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Scy going to be out of a job if this keeps up.
 
They should hire the guys who made the bots cause apparently the bots are pretty smart. Some guy was saying his bot actually earthshocked his own totem after attacking with it so the next totem could slide in next to flametongue for lethal. Meanwhile Gothik(or Rivendare forgot) casts corruption on a 4/5 then mass dispel it then corrupt it again then nuke it with soul fire.
 

scy

Member
Scy going to be out of a job if this keeps up.

RIP

But no, just a friend who probably didn't write any of the HS dialogue. I just take it as being extra campy for the sake of being cheesy. I mean, nobody wrote "Maexxna is a GIANT SPIDER" seriously.

........maybe.

They should hire the guys who made the bots cause apparently the bots are pretty smart. Some guy was saying his bot actually earthshocked his own totem after attacking with it so the next totem could slide in next to flametongue for lethal. Meanwhile Gothik(or Rivendare forgot) casts corruption on a 4/5 then mass dispel it then corrupt it again then nuke it with soul fire.

Blizzard keeping it real.
 

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
Finally beat it but that Warlock challenge can fuck the hell off. What Tardlock made this slow ass deck? Dude should be ejected from the guild, not fit to don the cloak.
 

scy

Member
Oh yeah, intentionally campy or not it's still pretty groan worthy. Maybe it's a mission accomplished?

I'm pretty sure the future ones will be along the same lines :( Just hope the release structure and underlying mechanics are done better then. I'll take some facepalming for improvements on those ends.
 

zoukka

Member
Oh yeah, intentionally campy or not it's still pretty groan worthy. Maybe it's a mission accomplished?

I'm pretty sure the future ones will be along the same lines :( Just hope the release structure and underlying mechanics are done better then. I'll take some facepalming for improvements on those ends.

Well it's not like I am shocked or anything. Just look at SC2 and D3 :D Pure, utter, kiddy nonsense.
 
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